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How do Canberra Libs get out of the wilderness?

Garfield 28 March 2014 56

In his opinion piece in today’s Canberra Times, former Liberal Senator for the ACT Gary Humphries has said that the Canberra Liberals face a continued stretch in the wilderness unless they change their conservative ways.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/long-march-in-the-wilderness-ahead-for-local-liberals-20140327-zqni1.html

I vote Liberal because I don’t think the Labor Government has been doing a good job, but I know many readers of the RiotACT don’t vote Liberal.  In the spirit of it being a good thing to have a viable alternative to the current government I’d like to ask what do the Canberra Liberals have to do to win those extra votes they need to form government in the ACT?


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56 Responses to How do Canberra Libs get out of the wilderness?
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Alderney Alderney 5:32 pm 04 Apr 14

dungfungus said :

Obviously, if someone supports (by membership) one organisation as a membership condition the members are bound to support any affiliated organisation.
It is therefore fair to say CPSU members will vote Labor. Some will fudge a bit and vote Green but then the Greens are affiliated with Labor also so the outcome is the same.

Bollocks.

Just because one is a member of union doesn’t guarantee they will vote a particular way. It might point to the likelihood of them voting a particular way, but doesn’t guarantee it.

When I joined the PS 6 years ago (after 23 yrs in the private sector) I was presented with a membership application form, for whatever the applicable union is, and it did contain an option to not have my funds contribute to the Labor Party.

I believe in unions and think they do good work, in the main.

I do think they need to re-invent themselves and break the link with the Labor Party as they (LP) no longer serve the purpose as the political wing of the union movement, despite having to be a union member to join them.

I’m a left leaning liberal (or am I a right leaning Labor?), but as I would never join a union I’m effectively excluded from the Labor Party.

Alderney Alderney 5:20 pm 04 Apr 14

gazket said :

ban preferential voting , first past the post should always be the winner.

But what if there are 10 candidates and, in a first past the post system, the lead candidate only gets 15% of the vote. Do the other 85% just have to lump it?

gazket gazket 7:37 pm 03 Apr 14

ban preferential voting , first past the post should always be the winner.

colourful sydney racing identity colourful sydney racing identity 3:35 pm 03 Apr 14

dungfungus said :

herp derp, i don’t know what i am talking about…i post something that is incorrect and the i try to defend it herp derp.

Could not have put it better myself.

dungfungus dungfungus 1:59 pm 03 Apr 14

LadyxBec said :

dungfungus said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

p1 said :

dungfungus said :

You are correct. I don’t know how I misread that as there is no connection with trade unions and the ALP.
How stupid of me to think that union members should support the ALP.

You didn’t say there was a connection, you said “…but as long as union members are compelled to be members of the ALP and vote for them…” which seems to be a bald faced lie (I certainly haven’t noticed the union goons marching members into polling booths at gunpoint to enforce the how to vote cards – although maybe that is an inner north thing?

I imagine a very high percentage of union members support the Labor Party.* Doesn’t mean what you said wasn’t bull$hi1.

*- I've heard that the Greens are all secretly Communist-Socialist-Islamists so some union types probably support them.

This is how dungungus rolls – makes shit up, then makes up more lies.

Yes, to be an ALP member, you have to be a union member. But to be a union member, you do not have to join the Labor Party. Case in point – the most powerful union in the country, the Australian Medical Association.

You obviously sent your (abusive) post before you read what I posted in the meantime namely:
“The CPSU openly states it is affiliated with the ALP. It also states potential members considering joining the CPSU make a judgement about the union’s activities, including its political activities. Should potential members feel that the CPSU’s activities are not appropriate and do not represent their interests, they do not join.

This means that if someone joins the CPSU they become, by proxy, members of the ALP through the CPSU’s affiliation with the ALP. If potential members think the CPSU’s activities (this means its affilation with the ALP) “are not appropriate” then their membership is not accepted.
So, if you join the CPSU you join the ALP through affiliation.

Some of you may be in denial about this but, as I pointed out, it is on record and easily accessed on the internet.

I don’t know why you mentioned the AMA – was it like “quick, look over there, is that a unicorn?”

Sorry, but it’s on record.

p1 said :

dungfungus said :

You are correct. I don’t know how I misread that as there is no connection with trade unions and the ALP.
How stupid of me to think that union members should support the ALP.

You didn’t say there was a connection, you said “…but as long as union members are compelled to be members of the ALP and vote for them…” which seems to be a bald faced lie (I certainly haven’t noticed the union goons marching members into polling booths at gunpoint to enforce the how to vote cards – although maybe that is an inner north thing?

I imagine a very high percentage of union members support the Labor Party.* Doesn’t mean what you said wasn’t bull$hi1.

*- I've heard that the Greens are all secretly Communist-Socialist-Islamists so some union types probably support them.

The CPSU openly states it is affiliated with the ALP. It also states potential members considering joining the CPSU make a judgement about the union’s activities, including its political activities. Should potential members feel that the CPSU’s activities are not appropriate and do not represent their interests, they do not join.

Sorry, but it’s on record.
Cancel
Saving…

Actually when you join the CPSU they ask you if you would like your membership to opt-out of ALP affiliation. From my understanding they were the first union to offer this. Therefore CPSU membership does not always = ALP membership.

I don’t doubt what you are saying but it would be good if you could post proof of this opt-out as the only reference to the ALP affiliation requirements I have seen says what I posted earlier.
This was in a copy of a letter from the CPSU to the NSW Electoral Commission. It is on the internet.
Obviously, if someone supports (by membership) one organisation as a membership condition the members are bound to support any affiliated organisation.
It is therefore fair to say CPSU members will vote Labor. Some will fudge a bit and vote Green but then the Greens are affiliated with Labor also so the outcome is the same.

colourful sydney racing identity colourful sydney racing identity 1:54 pm 03 Apr 14

employ a social media advisor O_o

LadyxBec LadyxBec 4:27 pm 02 Apr 14

dungfungus said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

p1 said :

dungfungus said :

You are correct. I don’t know how I misread that as there is no connection with trade unions and the ALP.
How stupid of me to think that union members should support the ALP.

You didn’t say there was a connection, you said “…but as long as union members are compelled to be members of the ALP and vote for them…” which seems to be a bald faced lie (I certainly haven’t noticed the union goons marching members into polling booths at gunpoint to enforce the how to vote cards – although maybe that is an inner north thing?

I imagine a very high percentage of union members support the Labor Party.* Doesn’t mean what you said wasn’t bull$hi1.

*- I've heard that the Greens are all secretly Communist-Socialist-Islamists so some union types probably support them.

This is how dungungus rolls – makes shit up, then makes up more lies.

Yes, to be an ALP member, you have to be a union member. But to be a union member, you do not have to join the Labor Party. Case in point – the most powerful union in the country, the Australian Medical Association.

You obviously sent your (abusive) post before you read what I posted in the meantime namely:
“The CPSU openly states it is affiliated with the ALP. It also states potential members considering joining the CPSU make a judgement about the union’s activities, including its political activities. Should potential members feel that the CPSU’s activities are not appropriate and do not represent their interests, they do not join.

This means that if someone joins the CPSU they become, by proxy, members of the ALP through the CPSU’s affiliation with the ALP. If potential members think the CPSU’s activities (this means its affilation with the ALP) “are not appropriate” then their membership is not accepted.
So, if you join the CPSU you join the ALP through affiliation.

Some of you may be in denial about this but, as I pointed out, it is on record and easily accessed on the internet.

I don’t know why you mentioned the AMA – was it like “quick, look over there, is that a unicorn?”

Sorry, but it’s on record.

p1 said :

dungfungus said :

You are correct. I don’t know how I misread that as there is no connection with trade unions and the ALP.
How stupid of me to think that union members should support the ALP.

You didn’t say there was a connection, you said “…but as long as union members are compelled to be members of the ALP and vote for them…” which seems to be a bald faced lie (I certainly haven’t noticed the union goons marching members into polling booths at gunpoint to enforce the how to vote cards – although maybe that is an inner north thing?

I imagine a very high percentage of union members support the Labor Party.* Doesn’t mean what you said wasn’t bull$hi1.

*- I've heard that the Greens are all secretly Communist-Socialist-Islamists so some union types probably support them.

The CPSU openly states it is affiliated with the ALP. It also states potential members considering joining the CPSU make a judgement about the union’s activities, including its political activities. Should potential members feel that the CPSU’s activities are not appropriate and do not represent their interests, they do not join.

Sorry, but it’s on record.
Cancel
Saving…

Actually when you join the CPSU they ask you if you would like your membership to opt-out of ALP affiliation. From my understanding they were the first union to offer this. Therefore CPSU membership does not always = ALP membership.

laraeddy laraeddy 2:52 pm 02 Apr 14

At dungfungus #7 post, and subsequent responses – the OP was all about the dysfunctional shambles currently trading as the Canberra Liberals.

It’s understandable, dungfungus, that you might want to talk about something else – must be terrible to be such a right-whinger and know no-one is falling for it. But in that case, a decent thing to do might be to create a new thread on topic, rather than try to derail an unrelated conversation. Things are desperate, eh.

And then you have the audacity to call Queen of the Bun for unicorn-spotting !! That is truly breath-taking self-delusion.

I’d be happy to join that other conversation because, as ever, you are wrong – but how about letting this thread get back on topic.

p1 p1 10:55 am 02 Apr 14

dungfungus said :

The CPSU openly states it is affiliated with the ALP. It also states potential members considering joining the CPSU make a judgement about the union’s activities, including its political activities. Should potential members feel that the CPSU’s activities are not appropriate and do not represent their interests, they do not join.

Sorry, but it’s on record.
Cancel
Saving…

So, kind of like what you said, except for the bit you said about *having* to vote for the Labor Party is you join a union. Which you don’t. Which is kind of lke what I said.

I’m impressed that since RA when to $hit, dungo has dialed the nutty up to eleven.

dungfungus dungfungus 4:53 pm 01 Apr 14

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

p1 said :

dungfungus said :

You are correct. I don’t know how I misread that as there is no connection with trade unions and the ALP.
How stupid of me to think that union members should support the ALP.

You didn’t say there was a connection, you said “…but as long as union members are compelled to be members of the ALP and vote for them…” which seems to be a bald faced lie (I certainly haven’t noticed the union goons marching members into polling booths at gunpoint to enforce the how to vote cards – although maybe that is an inner north thing?

I imagine a very high percentage of union members support the Labor Party.* Doesn’t mean what you said wasn’t bull$hi1.

*- I've heard that the Greens are all secretly Communist-Socialist-Islamists so some union types probably support them.

This is how dungungus rolls – makes shit up, then makes up more lies.

Yes, to be an ALP member, you have to be a union member. But to be a union member, you do not have to join the Labor Party. Case in point – the most powerful union in the country, the Australian Medical Association.

You obviously sent your (abusive) post before you read what I posted in the meantime namely:
“The CPSU openly states it is affiliated with the ALP. It also states potential members considering joining the CPSU make a judgement about the union’s activities, including its political activities. Should potential members feel that the CPSU’s activities are not appropriate and do not represent their interests, they do not join.

This means that if someone joins the CPSU they become, by proxy, members of the ALP through the CPSU’s affiliation with the ALP. If potential members think the CPSU’s activities (this means its affilation with the ALP) “are not appropriate” then their membership is not accepted.
So, if you join the CPSU you join the ALP through affiliation.

Some of you may be in denial about this but, as I pointed out, it is on record and easily accessed on the internet.

I don’t know why you mentioned the AMA – was it like “quick, look over there, is that a unicorn?”

Sorry, but it’s on record.

p1 said :

dungfungus said :

You are correct. I don’t know how I misread that as there is no connection with trade unions and the ALP.
How stupid of me to think that union members should support the ALP.

You didn’t say there was a connection, you said “…but as long as union members are compelled to be members of the ALP and vote for them…” which seems to be a bald faced lie (I certainly haven’t noticed the union goons marching members into polling booths at gunpoint to enforce the how to vote cards – although maybe that is an inner north thing?

I imagine a very high percentage of union members support the Labor Party.* Doesn’t mean what you said wasn’t bull$hi1.

*- I've heard that the Greens are all secretly Communist-Socialist-Islamists so some union types probably support them.

The CPSU openly states it is affiliated with the ALP. It also states potential members considering joining the CPSU make a judgement about the union’s activities, including its political activities. Should potential members feel that the CPSU’s activities are not appropriate and do not represent their interests, they do not join.

Sorry, but it’s on record.
Cancel
Saving…

NoImRight NoImRight 1:38 pm 01 Apr 14

dungfungus said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

dungfungus said :

pepmeup said :

The local libs need to run a few more moderate candidates, like Kate Carnell and Gary Humphries. who in the current Canberra Liberals is a moderate? I thought Jeremy Hanson was but it seems he is trumpeting the Conservative line. I would have thought Brendan (I once owned a business) Smyth was but no.

The one thing I think is they should run some moderate candidates, and allow them to say they are moderate socially progressive liberals. Under the Haire Clarke system, voters don’t only get to elect the government but we get to decide the members who make up a government and the opposition. We can assume that both major parties will run 25 candidates in 2016, five in each. the libs should run two moderates in each electorate. That way moderate voters an help change the liberal party to a party that more represent the fiscally responsible, socially progressive community.

All you have said may be feasible but as long as union members are compelled to be members of the ALP and vote for them it is all academic.
I would love to hear from a member of the CPSU that has refused to toe the line.

I am a union member – MEAA – and have never joined a political party, nor been compelled to vote for one. I know many CPSU members, but have no idea if any of them are members of any party.

I know there is no point asking you to provide evidence for these claims. But you are completely wrong on this one.

One of the ALP ACT branch membership application conditions:

“The Australian Labor Party (ACT Branch) Rules require applicants
to be a financial member of a trade union, if there is a union that
covers their occupation, trade or profession that they are eligible
to be a member of. All applicants who are financial members of a
union that is affiliated to the ALP are entitled to a membership fee
discount (refer to list of affiliated unions overleaf).

I see why you dont like quoting sources. When you do you contradict yourself. Read what youve posted then have a think about what you claimed before. This doesnt support your claims but then the real world rarely does.

Queen_of_the_Bun Queen_of_the_Bun 9:36 pm 31 Mar 14

p1 said :

dungfungus said :

You are correct. I don’t know how I misread that as there is no connection with trade unions and the ALP.
How stupid of me to think that union members should support the ALP.

You didn’t say there was a connection, you said “…but as long as union members are compelled to be members of the ALP and vote for them…” which seems to be a bald faced lie (I certainly haven’t noticed the union goons marching members into polling booths at gunpoint to enforce the how to vote cards – although maybe that is an inner north thing?

I imagine a very high percentage of union members support the Labor Party.* Doesn’t mean what you said wasn’t bull$hi1.

*- I've heard that the Greens are all secretly Communist-Socialist-Islamists so some union types probably support them.

This is how dungungus rolls – makes shit up, then makes up more lies.

Yes, to be an ALP member, you have to be a union member. But to be a union member, you do not have to join the Labor Party. Case in point – the most powerful union in the country, the Australian Medical Association.

dungfungus dungfungus 5:07 pm 31 Mar 14

p1 said :

dungfungus said :

You are correct. I don’t know how I misread that as there is no connection with trade unions and the ALP.
How stupid of me to think that union members should support the ALP.

You didn’t say there was a connection, you said “…but as long as union members are compelled to be members of the ALP and vote for them…” which seems to be a bald faced lie (I certainly haven’t noticed the union goons marching members into polling booths at gunpoint to enforce the how to vote cards – although maybe that is an inner north thing?

I imagine a very high percentage of union members support the Labor Party.* Doesn’t mean what you said wasn’t bull$hi1.

*- I've heard that the Greens are all secretly Communist-Socialist-Islamists so some union types probably support them.

The CPSU openly states it is affiliated with the ALP. It also states potential members considering joining the CPSU make a judgement about the union’s activities, including its political activities. Should potential members feel that the CPSU’s activities are not appropriate and do not represent their interests, they do not join.

Sorry, but it’s on record.

p1 p1 1:24 pm 31 Mar 14

dungfungus said :

You are correct. I don’t know how I misread that as there is no connection with trade unions and the ALP.
How stupid of me to think that union members should support the ALP.

You didn’t say there was a connection, you said “…but as long as union members are compelled to be members of the ALP and vote for them…” which seems to be a bald faced lie (I certainly haven’t noticed the union goons marching members into polling booths at gunpoint to enforce the how to vote cards – although maybe that is an inner north thing?

I imagine a very high percentage of union members support the Labor Party.* Doesn’t mean what you said wasn’t bull$hi1.

*- I've heard that the Greens are all secretly Communist-Socialist-Islamists so some union types probably support them.

dungfungus dungfungus 7:07 am 31 Mar 14

miz said :

Re the proposed arboretum bus, if there really is going to be one from July, all I can say is FINALLY – and hopefully it will not just for the (ACT) school holidays, as it is now (and too bad if you are from interstate). I wonder what had to be ditched to get the arboretum bus up, because I have it on good authority that there is no new money for buses whatsoever, just rearranging the furniture.

I was told by a mechanic that some Action buses can’t handle the gradients on the road to the top of the arboretum. Something to do with the way their gearing is configured. Anyone heard something similar?
Also, the TWU will surely want a danger allowance for their drivers to take a bus up and down that incline.

dungfungus dungfungus 7:03 am 31 Mar 14

Aeek said :

dungfungus said :

“The Australian Labor Party (ACT Branch) Rules require applicants
to be a financial member of a trade union, if there is a union that
covers their occupation, trade or profession that they are eligible
to be a member of.

Read it again. It says that ALP members must be a member of a trade union, if there is one.

It does not say what you think “union members are compelled to be members of the ALP and vote for them”

You are correct. I don’t know how I misread that as there is no connection with trade unions and the ALP.
How stupid of me to think that union members should support the ALP.

banco banco 11:02 pm 30 Mar 14

miz said :

QoTB, I am a CPSU member and am not a member of any political party. CPSU acts in the interests of its members, like any employee organisation. .

You must be pretty naive if you don’t realise that maintaining influence in the Labor party (and getting political jobs etc) plays a role in the decision making of CPSU leadership.

miz miz 9:41 pm 30 Mar 14

Re the proposed arboretum bus, if there really is going to be one from July, all I can say is FINALLY – and hopefully it will not just for the (ACT) school holidays, as it is now (and too bad if you are from interstate). I wonder what had to be ditched to get the arboretum bus up, because I have it on good authority that there is no new money for buses whatsoever, just rearranging the furniture.

miz miz 9:20 pm 30 Mar 14

Joingler, I fail to see how you can say ‘The light rail will not duplicate the bus network.’ The light rail route is a total duplication of the popular and well patronised 200 bus route. Even if light rail eventually replaces the present 200 bus route, that will not result in any net improvement to the congestion of Northbourne, as the light rail is to run on tracks along Northbourne. It therefore is not the panacea they are attempting to tout, as there is no actual net benefit whatsoever. Rather, it is obvious that the proposed light rail is a very, very expensive toy aimed at placating and justifying some kind of weirdo, irrational ideology pushed by Mr Greenie, whose sole vote keeps the present mob in government. Frankly this a completely unethical use of this vast amount of public funds. It certainly is not for the greater good of most Canberrans, given the huge cost and minimal, if any, net benefit.

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