If you were one of Kostka's victims its past time to lawyer up

LSWCHP said :

milkman said :

johnboy said :

Well no.

If you were a pedo and there was a respected public institution with a track record of protecting your kind AND presenting easy prey do you think you might make a beeline to it?

You mean join the catholic church explictly for the purpose of seeking out victims in the hope that the institution would protect you?

You got it. That’s exactly what I believe has happened…amoral perverts joined the church not out of any desire to do good, but simply in order to be able to satisfy their sexual desires within a framework that covered their activities and provided plenty of easy pickings. Hundreds, if not thousands of lives have been ruined at the hands and genitals of these monsters.

If the catholic hierarchy had openly recognised the demons in their midst and done their honest best to rectify the situation then that would be all that one could ask. But they didn’t. They covered up as best they could, bullied the victims (of all horrors) and used their institutional power to protect their soft flabby arses and continue leading their comfortable lives.

That Kostka mongrel should spend the rest of his life wearing a razor wire coat and eating grubs in a cave in the Himalayan snows until he finishes his miserable days.

And this only because our laws don’t allow the fathers of his victims to thrash him to death with whips in a public place. Obviously, I think our laws are wrong in this regard.

A very nasty subject, but it has to be asked, do you have any evidence at all?

John Moulis said :

People often blot out unpleasant things which happened in their youth from their subconscious and recall it many years later, often in response to remembering other events or stimuli which happened at the same time.

In 1974 at Melrose High I had almost $200.00 extorted out of me by another student and the police and Children’s Court became involved. During that period I was also buying obscure records which were being played on radio in Canberra and nowhere else. When that happened there was no counselling, no Kid’s Help Line or anything else. I was just left alone and had to get over it as best I could. I responded by trying to forget about it and stowing the records in an almost inaccessible cupboard and never playing them.

When the ’70s nostalgia boom happened in the 1990s I found the records again and began playing them. All of a sudden I remembered about the extortion case and how it affected me.

If this could happen with an extortion case, it is not inconceivable that it could happen with something as serious as child molestation. Therefore it is perfectly reasonable for victims of child abuse to take legal action years after the incidents have occurred.

Recovered memories are very dangerous, and I doubt they would stand up in any court these days unless there was corroborating evidence, like similar memories from other victims, and the courts have at times separated such cases so that each has to stand alone on its merits, even though each case would be stronger if they were joined. There’s a lot to be said for an inquisitorial form of justice in cases involving child victims, or other vulnerable victims, rather than the failed adversarial system that simply boosts lawyers’ wallets and egos. And perhaps some joined-up justice, so the victim doesn’t have to potentially repeat their story in criminal court (prosecution of the alleged offender), Children’s Court (care proceedings), Family Court (divorces) and civil court (compensation).

The best chance of successful prosecution is a contemporaneous account – try to ensure you talk to your children about their day at school/scouts/camp, and that they trust you well enough to tell you stuff, good and bad, about what is happening. And make sure you talk to them about what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Even in my mid-teens, I lacked both the vocabulary and the avenue to tell anyone about the rumours circulating at school about various priests, like “don’t go into a room alone with Father McCrory”. That was around 1980.

I also strongly suspect that an incident dealt with well, soon after the offence, results in much less long-term psychological damage than one disclosed much much later.

IP

johnboy said :

Were you sharing tents on cold nights often as part of your schooling? (some schools do, some don’t 😉

Yes.

Four annual cadet camps at one week long, plus a handful of bivouacs, were some of the things I enjoyed in my five years at boarding school.

We shared (what I considered to be at the time) harmless banter among fellow students about kiddy fiddling, because we were naive kids, but I was never placed in a situation where I felt threatened or uncomfortable at the actions of any of the brothers/fathers entrusted with my care.

I detest the crimes as much as you do, I really do, and I’d given up on the church long before cover ups were becoming well known.

I can only reflect on my schooling years with fond memories. It wasn’t always fun and games of course, but the only issues I ever had were related to being bullied by classmates and thankfully that didn’t last too long.

The Catholic schooling system and the broader institution has a lot of faults, we all know that. Personally, and luckily perhaps, I’ve never had any cause for complaint.

johnboy said :

Scouts have had issues no doubt. But nothing like the institutional efforts to protect perpetrators in the catholic church (to my knowledge, I’ll be happy to stand corrected once the royal commission get some real data on it)

The only time in scouts I felt threatened was around older boys from the catholic education system. (anecdotal I know)

I went to Catholic schools my whole life and *never* felt threatened (anecdotal I know).

IrishPete said :

chewy14 said :

johnboy said :

Scouts have had issues no doubt. But nothing like the institutional efforts to protect perpetrators in the catholic church (to my knowledge, I’ll be happy to stand corrected once the royal commission get some real data on it)

The only time in scouts I felt threatened was around older boys from the catholic education system. (anecdotal I know)

But do you think this behaviour is still widespread within the Catholic church and system?

The royal commission should give some answers but from what I’ve seen most of these cases are decades old. I went through the Catholic system after these times and never once felt threatened by any of the religious people or staff. Maybe they went on but I never got the slightest inkling of it if it was.

It would not surprise me one jot, if it was the case. Cases are decades old because the children often don’t report it until they are adults (if they ever do). And sometimes mature adults, like in their 30s, 40s or 50s.

The Aaron Holliday case in the Scouts was not very long ago.

IP

People often blot out unpleasant things which happened in their youth from their subconscious and recall it many years later, often in response to remembering other events or stimuli which happened at the same time.

In 1974 at Melrose High I had almost $200.00 extorted out of me by another student and the police and Children’s Court became involved. During that period I was also buying obscure records which were being played on radio in Canberra and nowhere else. When that happened there was no counselling, no Kid’s Help Line or anything else. I was just left alone and had to get over it as best I could. I responded by trying to forget about it and stowing the records in an almost inaccessible cupboard and never playing them.

When the ’70s nostalgia boom happened in the 1990s I found the records again and began playing them. All of a sudden I remembered about the extortion case and how it affected me.

If this could happen with an extortion case, it is not inconceivable that it could happen with something as serious as child molestation. Therefore it is perfectly reasonable for victims of child abuse to take legal action years after the incidents have occurred.

Deref said :

steveu said :

Remove the benevolent institution status from the church. Make them pay tax. That’s a start.

Hear, hear.

I heard that the Catholic Church is given a special standing by the Australian Government which makes them immune to civil or criminal litigation. That would explain why it’s the Trustees who are being sued rather than the church itself and why paedophilia cases against the CC are settled through ex gratia (no pun intended) payments rather than court-awarded damages. It might also explain why no-one in the church has been gaoled for protecting these paedophiles.

Does anyone know the truth and/or details of this?

I assume you are referring to the NSW Court of Appeal ruling (known as the Ellis Defence) in which it was found that the “church” does not exist as a legal entity that is capable of being sued. This doesn’t stop people suing for these type of events, it just means that they have to be more particular as to who they sue, i.e. rather than suing the “church” they need to sue the school, priests, etc as individual entities.

milkman said :

johnboy said :

Well no.

If you were a pedo and there was a respected public institution with a track record of protecting your kind AND presenting easy prey do you think you might make a beeline to it?

You mean join the catholic church explictly for the purpose of seeking out victims in the hope that the institution would protect you?

You got it. That’s exactly what I believe has happened…amoral perverts joined the church not out of any desire to do good, but simply in order to be able to satisfy their sexual desires within a framework that covered their activities and provided plenty of easy pickings. Hundreds, if not thousands of lives have been ruined at the hands and genitals of these monsters.

If the catholic hierarchy had openly recognised the demons in their midst and done their honest best to rectify the situation then that would be all that one could ask. But they didn’t. They covered up as best they could, bullied the victims (of all horrors) and used their institutional power to protect their soft flabby arses and continue leading their comfortable lives.

That Kostka mongrel should spend the rest of his life wearing a razor wire coat and eating grubs in a cave in the Himalayan snows until he finishes his miserable days.

And this only because our laws don’t allow the fathers of his victims to thrash him to death with whips in a public place. Obviously, I think our laws are wrong in this regard.

chewy14 said :

johnboy said :

Scouts have had issues no doubt. But nothing like the institutional efforts to protect perpetrators in the catholic church (to my knowledge, I’ll be happy to stand corrected once the royal commission get some real data on it)

The only time in scouts I felt threatened was around older boys from the catholic education system. (anecdotal I know)

But do you think this behaviour is still widespread within the Catholic church and system?

The royal commission should give some answers but from what I’ve seen most of these cases are decades old. I went through the Catholic system after these times and never once felt threatened by any of the religious people or staff. Maybe they went on but I never got the slightest inkling of it if it was.

It would not surprise me one jot, if it was the case. Cases are decades old because the children often don’t report it until they are adults (if they ever do). And sometimes mature adults, like in their 30s, 40s or 50s.

The Aaron Holliday case in the Scouts was not very long ago.

IP

johnboy said :

Well no.

If you were a pedo and there was a respected public institution with a track record of protecting your kind AND presenting easy prey do you think you might make a beeline to it?

You mean join the catholic church explictly for the purpose of seeking out victims in the hope that the institution would protect you?

Roundhead89 said :

Deref said :

steveu said :

Remove the benevolent institution status from the church. Make them pay tax. That’s a start.

Hear, hear.

Does anyone know the truth and/or details of this?

Reminds me how the Baptist Church started a company called Turf the Lot which was in competition with Canturf. Because the Baptist Church was a religious institution they were tax exempt and were able to undercut Canturf’s prices considerably. I remember a story on the old 7:30 Report where the boss of Canturf said “I can compete with another company but I can’t compete with God”.

Same with alltek. Exclusive brethren assholes are tax exempt so they drop their gst from tenders and easily get all the work.

Robertson said :

chewy14 said :

But do you think this behaviour is still widespread within the Catholic church and system?

The royal commission should give some answers but from what I’ve seen most of these cases are decades old. I went through the Catholic system after these times and never once felt threatened by any of the religious people or staff. Maybe they went on but I never got the slightest inkling of it if it was.

Until all those who were responsible for the cover-ups, for protecting the perpetrators, and for instigating aggressive legal maneuvers against the victims are exposed, punished, and kicked out of the Catholic hierarchy, then you can’t say the situation is in the past.

+1. There are definitely questions to be answered. In some ways I think the cover ups are actually worse than the pedos themselves.

johnboy said :

You don’t think that a record of covering pedophilia up would lead to an influx of pedos?

I doubt it, as I suspect that most don’t think they’ll ever be caught. And if pedo’s had been successfully covered up in the past, how would other pedos know about it anyway?

It’s also worth noting that there are an awful lot of catholics who hate this just as much as the rest of us. Although there’s been cover ups in the past, I doubt it would happen to anything like the same level today.

chewy14 said :

But do you think this behaviour is still widespread within the Catholic church and system?

The royal commission should give some answers but from what I’ve seen most of these cases are decades old. I went through the Catholic system after these times and never once felt threatened by any of the religious people or staff. Maybe they went on but I never got the slightest inkling of it if it was.

Until all those who were responsible for the cover-ups, for protecting the perpetrators, and for instigating aggressive legal maneuvers against the victims are exposed, punished, and kicked out of the Catholic hierarchy, then you can’t say the situation is in the past.

johnboy said :

Scouts have had issues no doubt. But nothing like the institutional efforts to protect perpetrators in the catholic church (to my knowledge, I’ll be happy to stand corrected once the royal commission get some real data on it)

The only time in scouts I felt threatened was around older boys from the catholic education system. (anecdotal I know)

I agree the catholic church has a bloody poor record of covering things up, but I don’t think that, as an organisation, they necessarily had a greater proportion of paedo’s than the general population.

Hopefully the royal commission will get to the roots of this stuff and make real improvements in professional standards in such organisations.

johnboy said :

The Canberra cases are talking about the 90s, hardly ancient history.

Wasn’t this guy found guilty of cases up to 1989? Either way, its still 20 odd years ago, not ancient history but not recent either. Maybe more will come out, who knows.

johnboy said :

Scouts have had issues no doubt. But nothing like the institutional efforts to protect perpetrators in the catholic church (to my knowledge, I’ll be happy to stand corrected once the royal commission get some real data on it)

The only time in scouts I felt threatened was around older boys from the catholic education system. (anecdotal I know)

But do you think this behaviour is still widespread within the Catholic church and system?

The royal commission should give some answers but from what I’ve seen most of these cases are decades old. I went through the Catholic system after these times and never once felt threatened by any of the religious people or staff. Maybe they went on but I never got the slightest inkling of it if it was.

johnboy said :

Well no.

If you were a pedo and there was a respected public institution with a track record of protecting your kind AND presenting easy prey do you think you might make a beeline to it?

You mean like Scouts?

I wonder if he is still living in the Catholic owned and run ‘apartment’ complex in the inner-north, wedged between two primary schools, he was put in when he was released from AMC. The residents and their visiting families had no idea of the wolf in their midst.

Roundhead89 said :

Deref said :

steveu said :

Remove the benevolent institution status from the church. Make them pay tax. That’s a start.

Hear, hear.

Does anyone know the truth and/or details of this?

Reminds me how the Baptist Church started a company called Turf the Lot which was in competition with Canturf. Because the Baptist Church was a religious institution they were tax exempt and were able to undercut Canturf’s prices considerably. I remember a story on the old 7:30 Report where the boss of Canturf said “I can compete with another company but I can’t compete with God”.

The Local Government association of NSW (LGNSW) recently released a report which amongst other things noted how churches, schools etc take advantage of their status. For example, a private school might buy a property next door, which then becomes rates-exempt, and rent it out, or operate a business from it, (not that they aren’t already operating a business, but that’s a different argument) with a significant cost advantage over competitors

IP

Deref said :

steveu said :

Remove the benevolent institution status from the church. Make them pay tax. That’s a start.

Hear, hear.

I heard that the Catholic Church is given a special standing by the Australian Government which makes them immune to civil or criminal litigation. That would explain why it’s the Trustees who are being sued rather than the church itself and why paedophilia cases against the CC are settled through ex gratia (no pun intended) payments rather than court-awarded damages. It might also explain why no-one in the church has been gaoled for protecting these paedophiles.

Does anyone know the truth and/or details of this?

Something to do with the way their assets are held. I don’t think it has much to do with the government.

IP

Deref said :

steveu said :

Remove the benevolent institution status from the church. Make them pay tax. That’s a start.

Hear, hear.

Does anyone know the truth and/or details of this?

Reminds me how the Baptist Church started a company called Turf the Lot which was in competition with Canturf. Because the Baptist Church was a religious institution they were tax exempt and were able to undercut Canturf’s prices considerably. I remember a story on the old 7:30 Report where the boss of Canturf said “I can compete with another company but I can’t compete with God”.

LSWCHP said :

No catholic priest or other functionary, from the pope on down, will ever be allowed near any of my children without supervision.

Note that I deliberately use a small “c” for catholic, and a small “p” for pope, to show my utter lack of regard for the whole crew.

These people are disgraced. The best thing that most of them could do to obtain some redemption is to withdraw quietly to the wardroom with a revolver and and a single bullet.

Just be careful. Paedophiles are likely just as present in the secular world. You wouldn’t want you dislike of an institution to blind you to the possibility of it happening elsewhere. Protecting kids is priority number one.

steveu said :

Remove the benevolent institution status from the church. Make them pay tax. That’s a start.

Hear, hear.

I heard that the Catholic Church is given a special standing by the Australian Government which makes them immune to civil or criminal litigation. That would explain why it’s the Trustees who are being sued rather than the church itself and why paedophilia cases against the CC are settled through ex gratia (no pun intended) payments rather than court-awarded damages. It might also explain why no-one in the church has been gaoled for protecting these paedophiles.

Does anyone know the truth and/or details of this?

I studied under Kostka at the time these crimes were perpetrated. I saw him as a mentor. He used to drive me home after extra curricular activities when my father was away on business. There were rumours about this awful activity at the time rife in the student body. But nothing untowards ever happened to me.

So when this all started to come out over the last few years, as a grown man I wept. I literally wept at all the deception and the lies that had been built around my education. I wept for the pain and suffering that was surrounding me while I was ignorant or fooled. I wept for the colleagues I did not know needed help. And I remembered the bullying amongst students that reflected the institutional culture that allowed Kostka’s crimes to go unremarked and buried for so long.

I know the school has done a lot to try and clear its name, but it has also done a lot to cover up everything and, as earlier posters have noted, this is very bad form.

For the record, all my kids have gone to public school because I would not put them near a catholic school after my experience of Marist – but that’s just an anecdote.

No catholic priest or other functionary, from the pope on down, will ever be allowed near any of my children without supervision.

Note that I deliberately use a small “c” for catholic, and a small “p” for pope, to show my utter lack of regard for the whole crew.

These people are disgraced. The best thing that most of them could do to obtain some redemption is to withdraw quietly to the wardroom with a revolver and and a single bullet.

Remove the benevolent institution status from the church. Make them pay tax. That’s a start.

How a multi billion dollar organisation with a position of trust in the community can cover this up is unforgivable.

While some of Kostka’s actions were in the distant past, the more recent and despicable way Marist Bros and the Catholic church acted is unforgiveable. The victims of Kostka struggle to this day with what went on at Marist.
Pedophiles are one thing, an institution covering up activity and fighting against the victims takes it to a whole new level.

The Catholic Church doesn’t act like your average organised pedophile ring. They are far more organised than those amateurs!