3 March 2009

If youth detention is better than home should we be finding the youth better homes?

| johnboy
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Alistair Coe has put out a media release prompted by statements in committee from the Department of Disability, Housing and Community Services that many inmates in the new Bimberi youth detention centre prefer custody to their homes lives.

This raises a lot of dangers, not least creating a desire to re-offend when released which endangers the public.

But rather than make them break rocks do we need to find ways to give them safe and decent lives when they’re not guilty of crimes?

To his credit Coe seems to be thinking down the same track:

    “If the system is failing these kids on so many levels, we need to carefully look at the entirety of that system to protect these young people and their families.”

UPDATED: The ABC has some more context on this:

    Department chief executive Martin Hehir says some indigenous elders have told them that the offenders are happier in Bimberi.

    “Many of the young people who end up in Bimberi have come from fairly chaotic circumstances, they probably wouldn’t be used to being fed on a regular basis, they probably wouldn’t be all that used to positive respectful relationships and that’s what they get in Bimberi,” he said.

    “That applies quite broadly to many of the occupants, it’s not just the indigenous people.”

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BerraBoy68 said :

FC said :

Good points FC but it should be noted that deviant kids can also come from loving caring homes and still end up on drugs, in prostitution etc. This can happen through their getting into the wrong crowd at school, ‘experimenting’ with drugs or petty crime and even through issues such as bullying, which can lead to low self-esteem and self-confidence issues, etc.. that effects kids mental states and subsequent behaviour. I’m not sure what the answer is (if I did I’d be a millionare) but it seems to me that blaming the home environment alone adresses only one part of a much bigger problem. I believe an holistic, long-term and co-ordinated (i.e. various govt Departments as well as welfare and social justice groups) approach is needed to address the many issues that can efeect kids and lead them down a dangerous and downwarldy spiralling path.

I absolutely agree with Berra Boy. Having recently been involved in this “system” – including Bimberi, Community Youth Justice and the various agencies around Canberra that offer young offenders programs and accomodation post Bimberi stays, the holistic approach is a long way off in Canberra. Like Berra Boy I wish I knew the answers.

I’m not sure I can agree that Bimberi offers firm boundaries however. My experiences included different boundaries depending on which worker was implementing them; and inexperienced workers buying into a popularity poll with the residents and the resulting stray from from written boundaries as a result.
Even management happily ignore written rules if it is more convenient to them at the time.
In my experience some of the youth that ‘check in’ to Bimberi have done so to check out the new facility, to catch up with friends, because their girl/boy friend is a current resident, to take a break from the craziness of their ‘outside’ life, because the food is good, simply because they got caught and to escape the latest threat of “I’ll get you” in the community. I have rarely heard anyone say they are at Bimberi to take advantage of the rehabilitation programs on offer.
Apologies for the huge post – I get a bit passionate about this!

BerraBoy68 said :

FC said :

home life does make a big difference in so many ways to young peoples development and life skills. Sure there are the smaller proportion of people who grow up in abusive and neglectful situations who go onto to be healthy adults and thrive in life, however a lot will go onto experience problems with the law, drug or alchohol issues, voilence, learning difficulties, mental health issues. I think this shows that it is more than a “poor me” mantra

Good points FC but it should be noted that deviant kids can also come from loving caring homes and still end up on drugs, in prostitution etc. This can happen through their getting into the wrong crowd at school, ‘experimenting’ with drugs or petty crime and even through issues such as bullying, which can lead to low self-esteem and self-confidence issues, etc.. that effects kids mental states and subsequent behaviour. I’m not sure what the answer is (if I did I’d be a millionare) but it seems to me that blaming the home environment alone adresses only one part of a much bigger problem. I believe an holistic, long-term and co-ordinated (i.e. various govt Departments as well as welfare and social justice groups) approach is needed to address the many issues that can efeect kids and lead them down a dangerous and downwarldy spiralling path.

really good points Berra Boy. I agree with you whole heartedly on this one.

pug206gti said :

I agree Bundy, nothing new here – the same was said about Quamby by people I knew working there and in the sector.

Home – dysfunction.
Juvi – friends, food, activities.

Not that there are any easy answers to these questions though.

I agree. they are tough issues and there are never simple/quick solutions.

FC said :

home life does make a big difference in so many ways to young peoples development and life skills. Sure there are the smaller proportion of people who grow up in abusive and neglectful situations who go onto to be healthy adults and thrive in life, however a lot will go onto experience problems with the law, drug or alchohol issues, voilence, learning difficulties, mental health issues. I think this shows that it is more than a “poor me” mantra

Good points FC but it should be noted that deviant kids can also come from loving caring homes and still end up on drugs, in prostitution etc. This can happen through their getting into the wrong crowd at school, ‘experimenting’ with drugs or petty crime and even through issues such as bullying, which can lead to low self-esteem and self-confidence issues, etc.. that effects kids mental states and subsequent behaviour. I’m not sure what the answer is (if I did I’d be a millionare) but it seems to me that blaming the home environment alone adresses only one part of a much bigger problem. I believe an holistic, long-term and co-ordinated (i.e. various govt Departments as well as welfare and social justice groups) approach is needed to address the many issues that can efeect kids and lead them down a dangerous and downwarldy spiralling path.

I agree Bundy, nothing new here – the same was said about Quamby by people I knew working there and in the sector.

Home – dysfunction.
Juvi – friends, food, activities.

Not that there are any easy answers to these questions though.

“How are some of these kids meant to ‘be responsible’ (regardless of their home life) if they have never been taught or modelled responsbility”
Sorry this was meant to be referring to the OTHER types of young offenders. Not the ones who are just bored on a Saturday cos their parents didn’t buy them the new PS3 game.

nyssa76 said :

Can we get off the ‘there isn’t much to do in Canberra’ BS?

Kids today want entertainment provided to them or else they’re bored and cause havoc.

Years ago kids made their own forms of entertainment and the rates of ‘poor me’ were a hell of a lot lower and actually justified.

I wonder how many ‘bad’ homes some of them come from and how many kids who aren’t being helped actually need it.

housebound, there are many adults out there who, as children, had a really bad home life and then became teens who didn’t break the law or abuse people or do anything anti-social. It’s about being responsible, regardless of home life.

The sooner we stop with the ‘poor me’ mantra and actually give consequences for actions based on the action and not the ‘home life’ the better.

Nyssa there is a few types of young offenders. The kins that you seem to be referring to in your post, are more than likely not the ones who would prefer Bimberi to their home life.
How are some of these kids meant to ‘be responsible’ (regardless of their home life) if they have never been taught or modelled responsbility?

home life does make a big difference in so many ways to young peoples development and life skills.
Sure there are the smaller proportion of people who grow up in abusive and neglectful situations who go onto to be healthy adults and thrive in life, however a lot will go onto experience problems with the law, drug or alchohol issues, voilence, learning difficulties, mental health issues.
I think this shows that it is more than a “poor me” mantra

caf said :

Can we desist with this f.cking “+1” Cargo Cult already?

+1

Can we desist with this f.cking “+1” Cargo Cult already?

If you build a hotel, people will want to go live there.

Reminds me, where do I go to sign up?

sepi, I live in Tuggers. My own teen respects the law and society. Most of my students do too.

As a teen I lived in Belconnen. So what? The buses were crap back then too.

However, the argument again comes down to consequences for actions.

If parents aren’t being responsible then they too need to have suitable consequences.

If kids are breaking the law, suitable consequences should apply.

Why does it always have to be ‘either or’?

Surely responsible parenting revolves around meeting physical and emotional needs and ensuring appropriate consequences to build responsibility and awareness of others.

Every child needs both, whether they are fortunate to have a caring home environment or whether the state needs to intervene.

Either extreme is stupidity.

Why do these discussions have to be so polarised?

Break rocks or Hotel Hilton. No compromise. No middle ground.

Surely we are intelligent enough to do better than that.

Worked with this demographic for some time. Try this comparison.
Group house where you are being taught to be responsible for your life, therefore doing your own cooking, cleaning, financial management, etc. under supervision.
Home where mum and dad are totally disfunctional, food may happen, or not, same with everything else, including abuse, etc.
Detention where the world is organised, boundaries are clear, decisions are mostly made for you, excellent facilities, activities, food.
Our guys saw it as a form of “time out” from the real world, bit of a dream really.

There isn’t a lot to do if you live in outer Tuggers or back of Belconnen. And the last bus home is liable to be at about 5.30 for the office workers.

And it is a lot harder to do well if you have a sh*t homelife.

I think they whole system needs reform. I would pay foster carers, and check up on them a lot more often.

And perhaps a youth home type place would work out, although troubled teens gathering together might just cause more havok.

Can we get off the ‘there isn’t much to do in Canberra’ BS?

Kids today want entertainment provided to them or else they’re bored and cause havoc.

Years ago kids made their own forms of entertainment and the rates of ‘poor me’ were a hell of a lot lower and actually justified.

I wonder how many ‘bad’ homes some of them come from and how many kids who aren’t being helped actually need it.

housebound, there are many adults out there who, as children, had a really bad home life and then became teens who didn’t break the law or abuse people or do anything anti-social. It’s about being responsible, regardless of home life.

The sooner we stop with the ‘poor me’ mantra and actually give consequences for actions based on the action and not the ‘home life’ the better.

No kid (well, none I’ve spoken to anyway) prefers Bimberi to home. The usual comment when asked about Bimberi are “it’s not too bad”. If they re-offend, it’s got nothing to do with wanting to go back there.

Would you see this service providing their meals for them, peterh?

The issue of not being fed appropriately doesn’t go away.

(Though your suggestion has a lot of merit.)

Skidbladnir said :

Make aspects of the prison the baseline standard for Children’s Services?
(apart from the complete lack of freedom, pool, the 24hr attention, stabbings, etc…)

Getting Canberra to the point where it really -is- the social utopia Coe wants may be a bit expensive though.
But, he is in Opposition, so he just has no need to actually provide, just tear holes.

true, but there could be better focuses on the youth in canberra. Apart from the youth centres, there is nothing around for them to do, so they make their own “fun”, and end up in a country club facility. a drop in centre that was of the same standard as the detention centre in each of the areas around canberra wouldn’t hurt, and recognising that a 24-year old isn’t a youth anymore might allow younger kids to go to the youth centres. many kids stay away from them as they feel intimidated by the older people there…

I’m on Coe’s side (and other’s). What sort of modern society is happy to abandon little kids to crap circumstances and then blame them when they are off-the-rails youth.

I would also question the reliability of any comment from a DHCS officer that kids ‘liked’ what they do to them! Somehow it sounds more like bureaucratic self-justification than reality.

I would like to hear the kids say it themselves.

Make aspects of the prison the baseline standard for Children’s Services?
(apart from the complete lack of freedom, pool, the 24hr attention, stabbings, etc…)

Getting Canberra to the point where it really -is- the social utopia Coe wants may be a bit expensive though.
But, he is in Opposition, so he just has no need to actually provide, just tear holes.

Maybe then, it should be their parents who are being locked up?

But rather than make them break rocks do we need to find ways to give them safe and decent lives when they’re not guilty of crimes?

Do you think they would want interference in their home lives? If they did, would their parents?

Special G said :

And again the system has failed them. Just one more person/thing to blame for their actions other than themselves.

Make them break rocks.

The problem with that Special G is they aren’t actually blaming anyone. They have simply said that Bimberi is better than the crap existence they had at home. I can absolutely understand.

Special G, your comment is a complete non-sequitur.

Ah, blame the victim. I love that game.

And again the system has failed them. Just one more person/thing to blame for their actions other than themselves.

Make them break rocks.

well, except there are limited spaces at a secure facility.

The voluntary admissions shouldn’t be as expensive to care for if they don’t need 24 hours security and monitoring.

Isn’t the obvious answer to allow young people to voluntarily commit themselves, similar to the way in which patients with mental illnesses can voluntarily commit themselves to institutions?

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