10 November 2016

I'm glad to live in Canberra and not Anytown USA today

| Charlotte
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Donald Trump. Photo: iStock

Consider this tale of two elections: the US has over the past 48 hours voted in a president who brags about committing sexual assault, while Canberrans last month elected a parliament consisting of a majority of women in which the deputy leaders of both major parties are thoughtful, compassionate women.

Everyone I’ve spoken to in person or online in the past 16 hours has been as stunned as me at Donald Trump’s victory in the US election, and my social media feeds are filled with comments about the impact his win will have on how America is viewed internationally and on our children’s futures.

What do you think of the US election result?

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This is one as a sample:

“So, if outright lies, misogyny, racism, violence, anger, hypocrisy and aggression can prevail above all basic commonsense and rational thinking, putting an unqualified moron into the highest office in the world, one has to question whether our great western democracy may have reached the end of the road?

When the US president wields so much power and influence over the world, never mind the USA, how democratic is it that a proportionate minority of white Americans can put into power such a destructive world leader against the will of the global community?

Have we really moved on from the 19th Century?

Certainly many democratic countries will no longer look to America the way we once did. It can’t go any lower, surely? Can the US system still be held up as the aspirational, gold standard for the free world? Anyone else not feeling the warm glow of the democratic libertarian ideal?

Tectonic shift? I’d say! I’m glad I’m learning to speak Chinese. Phew, what a day. Here’s a cliche I never thought I’d have to say. I’m shit scared for my kids’ future.”

Hear, hear.

Google was flooded with searches for “Move to Canada” last night. There has been a torrent of shares of posts about the Canadian immigration website crashing as the US election result became clear, parody posts about Canada building a wall to keep US asylum seekers out, the Mexican border being swamped by fleeing Americans and Queen Elizabeth II offering to restore British rule over the US.

Other shared articles include one about the 10 best places to emigrate after Donald Trump’s victory (Vienna, Zurich, Auckland, Munich, Vancouver, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Geneva, Copenhagen and Sydney) and an SBS story about the 2016-17 Skilled Occupations List for would be migrants to Australia.

In fact, US citizens looking for a new life in a city with a progressive government could do a lot worse than Canberra. Join us! We are (for the most part) adequately housed, fed, watered, educated, employed, connected and entertained. Just don’t come to the country by boat, because our Federal government’s policies on boat arrivals are worse than anything Mr Trump has come up with so far.

Australia’s appalling offshore detention policies exist in my view for the same reason that Mr Trump was elected: because many, many citizens are not living the cushy life of the inner-city elite.

Americans looked beyond or even embraced the fact that this is man who mocks disabled reporters, calls global warming a hoax perpetuated by the Chinese and says women should be punished for having abortions for a reason.

What does their support for such an individual over a competent and experienced woman tell us about their outlook on life?

Among them are voters who are feeling disenfranchised and seeking alternatives who recognise their predicament and promise to act on it.

These are the voters who have embraced Pauline Hanson in Australia, Brexit and the UK and Mr Trump in the US. They say things like “don’t let refugees in because they’ll steal our jobs” because they’re living in fear. They fear for their families’ futures as they are unemployed or at risk of losing their jobs due to economic change driven by globalisation. They’re looking for someone to blame, and for champions who will stand up for their right to a better life.

Rather than vilifying these voters we should listen to them and think about what can be done to assist them in their predicament, because while they remain angry and scared about the state of the world, they will always choose a maverick like Mr Trump over the status quo.

Pauline Hanson knows it. She celebrated Mr Trump’s win last night with champagne in her office. You can belittle and demean her or you can try to understand her perspective. The same is true for the electors who put her there, and those who have entrusted their nation to Mr Trump.

Please don’t think for a moment that because I am encouraging attempts to understand where these politicians and their electors are coming from I support their racist or in Mr Trump’s case misogynistic views. The opposite is true. I am horrified by it, and find Mr Trump’s blatant dishonesty abhorrent.

I am as fearful about what this election result means for us all as the US President-elect’s supporters are of globalisation.

As I said at the start, I’m very pleased to be living in an open-minded, progressive city like Canberra today.

What do you think about the US election result?

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HenryBG said :

Acton said :

Here’s another one to include in your survey:

‘I’m no Trump fan, but I think it’s hilarious to watch the so-called progressive left spit their collective dummies when the working class don’t vote the way they are supposed to’.

Within these lefties is an authoritarian personality yearning for the return of the dictatorship of the proletariat, where a pre-approved leader from a one party state could be bestowed upon the obedient masses.

Absolutely agreed. I don’t normally wallow in schadenfreude, but – and quite unexpectedly (I lost a $100 bet on the election result) – the more upset I see people about Trump’s election, the happier I am…

Maybe these Lefties will understand they need to re-learn how discourse works?

I took the bet on Sportsbet for Trump at $7.50 during all that confected outrage over Trump’s “p#@#y” comments when the media went ballistic over “sexism” and “misogyny” and dubious polls were released supposedly showing Clinton in front by double digits and female journalists saying Trump’s campaign was dead.

I knew that Americans wouldn’t swallow that and that Trump’s campaign benefitted greatly from it. I remembered how social media, the ABC and Fairfax cheered Julia Gillard’s “misogyny” speech and the formation of Women For Gillard and I remembered my own feelings of “hang on, I’m not cheering that. I’m alienated by it”. I figured that if I was feeling that in Australia, how would people in conservative, heartland USA be feeling over being told not to vote for Trump because he said the word p#@#y?

I cleaned up on Sportsbet when Trump won. I knew I would. If I was a US voter I would have voted for Bernie Sanders as the Democrat candidate but I wouldn’t have voted for Clinton. A lot of other men felt the same.

Acton said :

Here’s another one to include in your survey:

‘I’m no Trump fan, but I think it’s hilarious to watch the so-called progressive left spit their collective dummies when the working class don’t vote the way they are supposed to’.

Within these lefties is an authoritarian personality yearning for the return of the dictatorship of the proletariat, where a pre-approved leader from a one party state could be bestowed upon the obedient masses.

Absolutely agreed. I don’t normally wallow in schadenfreude, but – and quite unexpectedly (I lost a $100 bet on the election result) – the more upset I see people about Trump’s election, the happier I am…

Maybe these Lefties will understand they need to re-learn how discourse works?

Here’s a question for you:
If it’s OK for some to say “I really want Hilary Clinton to win because she’s a woman like I am”, is it OK for others to say, “I really want Trump to win because he’s a white man like I am”?
Because some introspection on this question would most definitely help people “to understand where these politicians and their electors are coming “.
People aren’t voting Trump/Hanson because they conform with some racist/misogynistic stereotype.
It’s a protest vote. And it’s a protest against a profoundly one-sided narrative whereby anybody who disagrees with immigration, multiculturalism, globalisation, keeping out illegal immigrants, etc… is shamelessly labelled as a xenophobic, islamophobic, etc…

Here’s another one to include in your survey:

‘I’m no Trump fan, but I think it’s hilarious to watch the so-called progressive left spit their collective dummies when the working class don’t vote the way they are supposed to’.

Within these lefties is an authoritarian personality yearning for the return of the dictatorship of the proletariat, where a pre-approved leader from a one party state could be bestowed upon the obedient masses.

justin heywood11:00 pm 14 Nov 16

Blen_Carmichael said :

Could you please include this in the selection of responses to your survey:

‘I’m no Trump fan, but I think it’s hilarious to watch the teddies being thrown in the corner.’

Yep. Prior to the election there was plenty of concerned commentary from the left that Trump would not accept his inevitable defeat.

The current protestors don’t have anything to protest about. The election seemed fair. The people have voted, and for better or worse they must accept the decision.

I doubt the sky will fall, but it’s certainly going to be an interesting time.

Blen_Carmichael said :

Could you please include this in the selection of responses to your survey:

‘I’m no Trump fan, but I think it’s hilarious to watch the teddies being thrown in the corner.’

Especially the left corner.

Blen_Carmichael12:48 pm 14 Nov 16

Could you please include this in the selection of responses to your survey:

‘I’m no Trump fan, but I think it’s hilarious to watch the teddies being thrown in the corner.’

rommeldog56 said :

Media report this morning : 53% of women who voted, voted for Trump.

That’s perplexing.

Can anyone explain this ????????

Who was is that said “power is an aphrodisiac”?

Media report this morning : 53% of women who voted, voted for Trump.

That’s perplexing.

Can anyone explain this ????????

JC said :

What do you think of the possibility that Trump has a connection to a supposed Russian bank. Now if this turns out to be true then will make inapropriate use of an email server rather insignificant wouldn’t it? Oh yeah thats right this has come from biased lefty media.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/31/trump-organization-server-russia-bank-slate-report

What’s your point? Your article came out a week before the election and is an allegation. (I can only assume that if the DNC had knowledge about proof they would have brought that up, just like the tapes.) And why did you feel it necessary to add that it comes from a “lefty” media? I don’t consider myself right or left.

Clinton was investigated by the FBI. There is no allegation from lefty or right-wing media. She had a private email server. There were at least some emails on it that fall under the category top classified. That is not the same as Malcom Turnbull using WhatsApp (well, to be honest I don’t know what he divulges on WhatsApp). Yet she was allowed to run for president until the very end.

So the answer is: Well, if anything comes of that Trump Russian bank allegation and it was something against the law then I hope it will have consequences for him.

Citizen Phil said :

I wish people would stop righting off as insignificant Clinton’s use of a private email server. Imagine if Julie Bishop did this, set up her own email server and used it for Australian Government business? Wouldn’t we be outraged? Wouldn’t she be expected to stand down? Wouldn’t a regular public servant probably lose their job over something like that?

Well, no, we wouldn’t be, because our PM already does just that, as well as using WhatsApp and Wickr.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/questions-raised-over-malcolm-turnbulls-use-of-private-email-server-20151008-gk4vep.html

Citizen Phil12:12 pm 12 Nov 16

I wish people would stop righting off as insignificant Clinton’s use of a private email server. Imagine if Julie Bishop did this, set up her own email server and used it for Australian Government business? Wouldn’t we be outraged? Wouldn’t she be expected to stand down? Wouldn’t a regular public servant probably lose their job over something like that? Shouldn’t we be outraged that official communications that OUR government has sent to our allies has gone through a communications device not vetted by ANY government?

I’m not a Trump fan but I couldn’t call Clinton competent with decision making like that, and why should regular Americans? There’s obviously a lot of reasons why Trump got elected but I’m sure the above is one of them.

justin heywood said :

gooterz said :

Less than 50 % of Americans eligable to vote actually voted. Trump got 20 something percent of the vote.

Russia is happy
China is happy
Most Americans are happy
Stock markets are up

I’m not sure there is actually an issue?

I think there is an issue.

Now the most powerful man in the world is an obvious narcissist with a limited understanding of international relations or even what powers he now has under the constitution.

With China increasingly assertive and Putin increasingly dangerous, now is not the time to experiment with an amateur in the White House.

The “professionals” have been in the White House for a long time and what have we got?

Trump is not beholden to any group and most of the Republicans in the system reject him because he is a threat to the establishment to which they are part of.

Being in politics in more about having a well paid job than having power. Look at Obama, a very popular guy and a seductive orator but totally useless as POTUS. No point in having a popular person in power unless that person knows how to use it and Trump is the man. You don’t last long in business if you can’t make a decision and know how to apply the powers you have.

Being a narcissist is optional but there have been plenty before him.

I predict he will get together with Putin and solve the current problems in the Middle East that Obama and all his advisers (who understand “international relations”) and the useless UN have failed to make any difference to.

I don’t believe an assetive China is a problem and if it is it is not of Trump’s making.

Putin seems strong only because Obama has been weak.

Give the man a chance.

justin heywood8:47 am 12 Nov 16

gooterz said :

Less than 50 % of Americans eligable to vote actually voted. Trump got 20 something percent of the vote.

Russia is happy
China is happy
Most Americans are happy
Stock markets are up

I’m not sure there is actually an issue?

I think there is an issue.

Now the most powerful man in the world is an obvious narcissist with a limited understanding of international relations or even what powers he now has under the constitution.

With China increasingly assertive and Putin increasingly dangerous, now is not the time to experiment with an amateur in the White House.

TracyS said :

I’m thankful for compulsory voting here in Australia. When voting is voluntary, the people who have the least resources and are the most marginalised will face relatively greater barriers to voting and are least likely to actually do so. If you face difficulty with transport, cannot find someone to mind the kids, feel exhausted because you have worked long hours on voting day, or are fearful of violence or intimidation, then voting can easily end up in the too hard basket. This further disenfranchises the disadvantaged and marginalised. Compulsory voting produces a result that is more representative of the community.

If voting was compulsory in the USA the number of informal votes would be enormous.

I’m thankful for compulsory voting here in Australia. When voting is voluntary, the people who have the least resources and are the most marginalised will face relatively greater barriers to voting and are least likely to actually do so. If you face difficulty with transport, cannot find someone to mind the kids, feel exhausted because you have worked long hours on voting day, or are fearful of violence or intimidation, then voting can easily end up in the too hard basket. This further disenfranchises the disadvantaged and marginalised. Compulsory voting produces a result that is more representative of the community.

Less than 50 % of Americans eligable to vote actually voted. Trump got 20 something percent of the vote.

Russia is happy
China is happy
Most Americans are happy
Stock markets are up

I’m not sure there is actually an issue?

sputnik said :

Garfield said :

I think the big question should be why didn’t enough people vote for Clinton? To any rational person, her use of the email server has to pale in comparison to Trump’s bile and past actions.

This came up before. Most rational persons will have trouble when they have to compare apples and oranges.
“use of the email server” sounds harmless but use of a private email server for top-level classified information will get any public servant fired maybe sent to prison.
Some persons will assume that no criminal intent was behind this, so the talk about prison maybe exaggerated. But this has nothing to do with rational, because nobody knows. I’d like to see what would happen to the head of ASIO if he did that. Overall it makes very rational grounds not to vote for Clinton.

bile and (alleged) past actions and (real) past offensive comments also make for rational grounds not to vote for Trump.

Going to the street and protesting after a democratic election has nothing rational to it. Nor does looking to emigrate after this election. Just because media say he is a “destructive world leader”. Is that the same media that had dropped any pretence of non-bias over this election?

What should I vote in this poll?
I’m neither disappointed nor scared. I’m not a Trump fan, but I was afraid a war-hungry Clinton would win and what that would have meant for the future of the world much more than I am afraid of a Trump win.

What do you think of the possibility that Trump has a connection to a supposed Russian bank. Now if this turns out to be true then will make inapropriate use of an email server rather insignificant wouldn’t it? Oh yeah thats right this has come from biased lefty media.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/31/trump-organization-server-russia-bank-slate-report

Charlotte Harper said :

jim7777 said :

Charlotte …. have you ever been to the U.S.A i doubt it .. what you have written here is absolutley the reason Donald Trump is president … the MAJORITY of U.S and AUS voters both rich and poor are sick and tired of the left wing elitists dumping there politically correct mantra and trotski political adgenda on them …. i said trump would win in May ..i was right .. i was in the U.S in August .. i came back and new we would be President .. And i say this now that within ten years Pauline Hanson will probably be the PM of Aus.

I have been to the US a few times for work, to Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York. I have family, friends and former work colleagues who live there, too. Most of them live in those same big cities or Washington, with a couple in Dallas and a few in Atlanta. In any case, I think in fact we are in agreement here with the exception of the “trotski” reference.

What i see in the US and AUS is that the left is isolating itself with moderate and right leaning voters people are sick of it .. the more the ABC and co preach there one sided agenda the more livid the voters get … i cant even watch tony jones anymore he lost all credibility and i have never been right wing i would consider myself a moderate …

Garfield said :

I’m not a huge follower of US politics by any means, but given the obvious flaws in Trump as a presidential candidate, I think the big question should be why didn’t enough people vote for Clinton? .

I can tell you exactly why. The big media in the US do not venture away from the east and west coasts. Two days before the election, Democrats like Joel Benenson – thanks to the ridiculous media coverage which was giving Hillary a 98 per cent chance – were crowing about impending victory. So of course a lot of Democrats didn’t bother to turn out to vote, or turn up to coax a wavering voter to the Hillary side in states like Michigan, Florida, Ohio, NC. And that was on top of the Wikileaks revelations, which were extremely damaging and would have swayed a lot of voters to Trump. Many of the media commentators made the mistake of talking about Trump in terms of the “Republican vote”. Trump’s vote was not a Republican vote. It was a Bernie/Democrat/Hillary-hater vote just as much.

Garfield said :

I think the big question should be why didn’t enough people vote for Clinton? To any rational person, her use of the email server has to pale in comparison to Trump’s bile and past actions.

This came up before. Most rational persons will have trouble when they have to compare apples and oranges.
“use of the email server” sounds harmless but use of a private email server for top-level classified information will get any public servant fired maybe sent to prison.
Some persons will assume that no criminal intent was behind this, so the talk about prison maybe exaggerated. But this has nothing to do with rational, because nobody knows. I’d like to see what would happen to the head of ASIO if he did that. Overall it makes very rational grounds not to vote for Clinton.

bile and (alleged) past actions and (real) past offensive comments also make for rational grounds not to vote for Trump.

Going to the street and protesting after a democratic election has nothing rational to it. Nor does looking to emigrate after this election. Just because media say he is a “destructive world leader”. Is that the same media that had dropped any pretence of non-bias over this election?

What should I vote in this poll?
I’m neither disappointed nor scared. I’m not a Trump fan, but I was afraid a war-hungry Clinton would win and what that would have meant for the future of the world much more than I am afraid of a Trump win.

JC said :

jim7777 said :

And i say this now that within ten years Pauline Hanson will probably be the PM of Aus.

Fortunately for Australia that won’t happen. Our system of government is totally different with the obvious being the PM is the leader of the party in control of the house (yeah know that is not strictly true but close enough), they are not some popularist figurehead who with a bit of money and PR can shake the place up enough to become leader.

What the likes of One Nation could do however is take seats away from traditionally conservative country focused parties like the LNP in QLD/Nationals etc. That would diminish the current coalition government to either the opposition or into some unholy coalition with One Nation. Now that will make Labor and the Greens relationship look like a marriage made in heaven.

And as we have seen in the upper house maybe control of the balance of power to the likes of One Nation.

Agree with that JC.

In fact, it needs to happen very soon.

Charlotte Harper said :

jim7777 said :

Charlotte …. have you ever been to the U.S.A i doubt it .. what you have written here is absolutley the reason Donald Trump is president … the MAJORITY of U.S and AUS voters both rich and poor are sick and tired of the left wing elitists dumping there politically correct mantra and trotski political adgenda on them …. i said trump would win in May ..i was right .. i was in the U.S in August .. i came back and new we would be President .. And i say this now that within ten years Pauline Hanson will probably be the PM of Aus.

I have been to the US a few times for work, to Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York. I have family, friends and former work colleagues who live there, too. Most of them live in those same big cities or Washington, with a couple in Dallas and a few in Atlanta. In any case, I think in fact we are in agreement here with the exception of the “trotski” reference.

I think that was a very courageous and professional response Charlotte. I doubt if your peers will be saying the same however.

Canberrans who listen to/watch the ABC and read Fairfax Media only get an overdose of left leaning opinion and cherry picked news.

This fits the narrative that they have been taught in their school and uni years. There is no need for them to look any further, left-think doesn’t tolerate anything else.

People like me read and see the same thing but we crave balance as common sense tells us there is always another side to any opinion.

While I have always been on the conservative side of politics I have accepted all comers to the position of Prime Minister and given them a chance to implement their agenda.
That’s what I was taught at school and at home.

Education has obviously changed and family values have been hijacked by social media.

We have more to fear from these changes than someone like Donald Trump being the next POTUS.

madelini said :

gazket said :

Thank God the left in America can’t boot out their president like the lefty bed wetters did here when Tony Abbott was democratically elected by the Australian public.

You do understand the fundamental differences between the Australian and American political structures, right? Tony Abbott was not democratically elected by the Australian public as a whole, the LNP was. Abbott was elected by the constituents in Warringah, and was then selected by the Coalition to be their leader. He was deposed by the party when they deemed that he was not leading the party as he should have.

By contrast, the US runs the primaries so that one person representing an aspect of a party can be selected for office. Clinton and Sanders represented different aspects of the Democratic Party, Trump and Cruz different aspects of the Republicans. The reason why the President of the US cannot be removed and replaced unless in exceptional circumstances is because the population of the country votes for the person, not the party.

Here, we vote for the party, and we expect our local member to contribute to the values of the party. We trust the party to make leadership decisions as they see fit. That’s why they’re called the Prime Minister and not the President.

No, we have a prime minister because we are a constitutional monarchy, not a republic.

I’m not a huge follower of US politics by any means, but given the obvious flaws in Trump as a presidential candidate, I think the big question should be why didn’t enough people vote for Clinton? To any rational person, her use of the email server has to pale in comparison to Trump’s bile and past actions, but he obviously connected with the concerns of enough Americans in the right places that he was elected.

My big picture concerns around Trump are in regards to how erratic he was in the campaign. If he retains that style as US President, it will increase uncertainty and tension throughout the world, with potentially catastrophic consequences. If he’s as aggressive as he sometimes said he’d be on the world stage, he could start world war 3, and if he’s as isolationist as he’s said at other times, he could give expansionist Russia and China and radical Islam the room they need to grow more powerful and harder to contain in future.

jim7777 said :

And i say this now that within ten years Pauline Hanson will probably be the PM of Aus.

Fortunately for Australia that won’t happen. Our system of government is totally different with the obvious being the PM is the leader of the party in control of the house (yeah know that is not strictly true but close enough), they are not some popularist figurehead who with a bit of money and PR can shake the place up enough to become leader.

What the likes of One Nation could do however is take seats away from traditionally conservative country focused parties like the LNP in QLD/Nationals etc. That would diminish the current coalition government to either the opposition or into some unholy coalition with One Nation. Now that will make Labor and the Greens relationship look like a marriage made in heaven.

And as we have seen in the upper house maybe control of the balance of power to the likes of One Nation.

Charlotte Harper10:43 am 11 Nov 16

jim7777 said :

Charlotte …. have you ever been to the U.S.A i doubt it .. what you have written here is absolutley the reason Donald Trump is president … the MAJORITY of U.S and AUS voters both rich and poor are sick and tired of the left wing elitists dumping there politically correct mantra and trotski political adgenda on them …. i said trump would win in May ..i was right .. i was in the U.S in August .. i came back and new we would be President .. And i say this now that within ten years Pauline Hanson will probably be the PM of Aus.

I have been to the US a few times for work, to Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York. I have family, friends and former work colleagues who live there, too. Most of them live in those same big cities or Washington, with a couple in Dallas and a few in Atlanta. In any case, I think in fact we are in agreement here with the exception of the “trotski” reference.

justin heywood10:32 am 11 Nov 16

hermionestranger said :

For me its not even Trump we should be worried about, it is the fact that there exist so many people who support his racist and sexist agenda without seeing the problem. The ignorance is what truly scares me.

I doubt that everyone voting for Trump is either racist or sexist. After all, most Republicans supported other candidates earlier in the race – and there’s little doubt Trump would not have won if the Democrats had offered a better candidate than Clinton.

Trump was never a politician, which is why he never learned to hide his true nature. Unlike Bill Clinton, the darling of the HuffPo set, but who in reality treated many women as trash – behaviour which, incidentally, was at times defended by Hillary.

It’s all in the image you project, not the reality.

gazket said :

Thank God the left in America can’t boot out their president like the lefty bed wetters did here when Tony Abbott was democratically elected by the Australian public.

You do understand the fundamental differences between the Australian and American political structures, right? Tony Abbott was not democratically elected by the Australian public as a whole, the LNP was. Abbott was elected by the constituents in Warringah, and was then selected by the Coalition to be their leader. He was deposed by the party when they deemed that he was not leading the party as he should have.

By contrast, the US runs the primaries so that one person representing an aspect of a party can be selected for office. Clinton and Sanders represented different aspects of the Democratic Party, Trump and Cruz different aspects of the Republicans. The reason why the President of the US cannot be removed and replaced unless in exceptional circumstances is because the population of the country votes for the person, not the party.

Here, we vote for the party, and we expect our local member to contribute to the values of the party. We trust the party to make leadership decisions as they see fit. That’s why they’re called the Prime Minister and not the President.

dungfungus said :

Charlotte Harper said :

dungfungus said :

“Mr Trump’s blatant dishonesty……”

I missed that. Can you give some details, please?

Sure thing, dungfungus:
‘When Politico attempted to measure how many lies Trump told over the course of 4.6 hours of speeches, they found that he lied, on average, once every five minutes. When Huffington Post catalogued his lies over the course of just one town hall event, they came up with 71 lies. ‘
Here’s a list of 101 Trump lies:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/4834/trumps-101-lies-hank-berrien#

I wasn’t aware that “fact checking” was such a big industry. It appears that Trump is indeed a terrible liar.
Can’t understand why the American voters chose him over the pristine Hilary Clinton.

I don’t think that anyone is suggesting that Clinton is “pristine”. Interesting that she was labelled a liar over her use of a private email server, yet the sex-assaulting, racist, bigoted, misogynistic and lying Trump managed to come out on top. They are both now politicians, you know, and politicians have never been renowned for their honesty.

hermionestranger said :

For me its not even Trump we should be worried about, it is the fact that there exist so many people who support his racist and sexist agenda without seeing the problem. The ignorance is what truly scares me. Now the racism and sexism will be done overtly rather than covertly and they wouldn’t even think it is wrong, because the President thinks its okay too. Imagine the influence on all the young children and teenagers. The only good thing I remember seeing is that the majority of the young generation had voted against Trump. They are the future and that was a refreshing thing to see amidst all this chaos.
I hope no one gets further hurt over this. It is quite a tragedy

bronal said :

I think the best thing is to take a ‘wait and see’ approach. All of Trump’s statements have been made from a position in which he has had no authority or responsibility. Up to now he has merely been a candidate. All that will change when he assumes office and is briefed on the implications and repercussions of his proposals.

I find regular utterances of four letter words by female left leaning panellists on ABC and SBS more repugnant than your perceived Trump’s “racial and sexist agenda”.

And while you claim, along with a lot of other Clinton apologists, that the majority of the young generation voted against Trump I think you are wrong.
Just because some of the ones that did vote against Trump are the ones we are now seeing making fools of themselves on the streets of New York and Chicago doesn’t mean the majority did.

I saw a brief report about a lady who had been travelling around the USA trying to rally females against Trump. She admitted her campaign had been a failure and this was because there were apparently more important issues in the USA than sexism.

This report was before the election but I think it speaks volumes given the outcome of the election.

Acton said :

Millions of people have decisively shown which person they prefer as President. Millions of people have decided they trust and believe Trump more than Clinton. Who are you, who are we, to say they are wrong?.

Well actually Hillary got more votes than Trump, it’s only because of the way their electoral college works that he got elected. If it was popular vote then Hillary would be president.

hermionestranger8:33 am 11 Nov 16

For me its not even Trump we should be worried about, it is the fact that there exist so many people who support his racist and sexist agenda without seeing the problem. The ignorance is what truly scares me. Now the racism and sexism will be done overtly rather than covertly and they wouldn’t even think it is wrong, because the President thinks its okay too. Imagine the influence on all the young children and teenagers. The only good thing I remember seeing is that the majority of the young generation had voted against Trump. They are the future and that was a refreshing thing to see amidst all this chaos.
I hope no one gets further hurt over this. It is quite a tragedy

bronal said :

I think the best thing is to take a ‘wait and see’ approach. All of Trump’s statements have been made from a position in which he has had no authority or responsibility. Up to now he has merely been a candidate. All that will change when he assumes office and is briefed on the implications and repercussions of his proposals.

rommeldog56 said :

Blen_Carmichael said :

Charlotte Harper said :

When the US president wields so much power and influence over the world, never mind the USA, how democratic is it that a proportionate minority of white Americans can put into power such a destructive world leader against the will of the global community?

I recall back in 2004 some well-minded people (I’m being kind) in Britain took it upon themselves to ring American voters en masse and implore them not to return George W. Bush to the White House. Funny enough it had the reverse effect, the Americans angrily telling the Brits what they could do with their unsolicited advice.

Reading your condemnation of these “white” Americans who supposedly voted against the “will of the global community”, I’m reminded of those sentiments.

Well said, Ben_Carmichael. That comment in the OP isn’t a good analysis of what happened – its just the OPs opinion.

Its those “white Americans” who got off their behinds and went to vote to have their say. As I recall, Trump got many more votes from females than was expected too.

I have no idea what “the will of the global community” has to do with electing the US president either.

If anyone in Australia wants to call the US system undemocratic because white Americans voted in a non compulsory voting system, then that would be the pot calling the kettle black.

Check out the number of voters in the ACT Vs the number of Senators/Members we can elect – and compare that with Tasmania and the NT. Now, that IS undemocratic.

Agree with your comments re the senate and the territories here. But with the US I find the state based system totally strange. In all states bar two the winner of that state gets all the electoral college votes and the two that don’t do that give one to the first two candidates and the remainder to the winner. Like WTF? Surely the most democratic thing is you get a proportion of college votes equal to your share of the vote.

And then there is the house and senate and good old Gerrymandering undertaken by states to rig the vote to suit their specific political bias.

If someone knows more about the US electoral system would love to know why it is this way.

JC said :

gazket said :

Hilliary’s lying and corruption is some how better for America than Donalds ? Hilliary couldn’t even come out and thank her supporters . She dumped them all with in 12 hours.

Thank God the left in America can’t boot out their president like the lefty bed wetters did here when Tony Abbott was democratically elected by the Australian public.

Rather than spruking Trumps retorhic, what exactly has Hillary Clinton done that is CORRUPT?

And don’t say email server, that is not an example of corruption…

This is one of many allegations suggesting Hilary Clinton could be corrupt:

http://heatst.com/politics/wikileaks-hillary-clinton-morocco/

You should have included the option “I’m not a Trump supporter but could not have brought myself to vote for Clinton, knowing that the DRC cheated Bernie out of the Democratic nomination”. So I would have reluctantly voted for Trump”.

Blen_Carmichael said :

Charlotte Harper said :

When the US president wields so much power and influence over the world, never mind the USA, how democratic is it that a proportionate minority of white Americans can put into power such a destructive world leader against the will of the global community?

I recall back in 2004 some well-minded people (I’m being kind) in Britain took it upon themselves to ring American voters en masse and implore them not to return George W. Bush to the White House. Funny enough it had the reverse effect, the Americans angrily telling the Brits what they could do with their unsolicited advice.

Reading your condemnation of these “white” Americans who supposedly voted against the “will of the global community”, I’m reminded of those sentiments.

Well said, Ben_Carmichael. That comment in the OP isn’t a good analysis of what happened – its just the OPs opinion. Its those “white Americans” who got off their behinds and went to vote to have their say. As I recall, Trump got many more votes from females than was expected too.

I have no idea what “the will of the global community” has to do with electing the US president either.

If anyone in Australia wants to call the US system undemocratic because white Americans voted in a non compulsory voting system, then that would be the pot calling the kettle black. Check out the number of voters in the ACT Vs the number of Senators/Members we can elect – and compare that with Tasmania and the NT. Now, that IS undemocratic.

Charlotte …. have you ever been to the U.S.A i doubt it .. what you have written here is absolutley the reason Donald Trump is president … the MAJORITY of U.S and AUS voters both rich and poor are sick and tired of the left wing elitists dumping there politically correct mantra and trotski political adgenda on them …. i said trump would win in May ..i was right .. i was in the U.S in August .. i came back and new we would be President .. And i say this now that within ten years Pauline Hanson will probably be the PM of Aus.

gazket said :

Hilliary’s lying and corruption is some how better for America than Donalds ? Hilliary couldn’t even come out and thank her supporters . She dumped them all with in 12 hours.

Thank God the left in America can’t boot out their president like the lefty bed wetters did here when Tony Abbott was democratically elected by the Australian public.

Rather than spruking Trumps retorhic, what exactly has Hillary Clinton done that is CORRUPT?

And don’t say email server, that is not an example of corruption…

It’s amazing isn’t it, how the left/progressives/commentariat (call them what you like) are all in favour of democracy – except when they lose.

Millions of people have decisively shown which person they prefer as President. Millions of people have decided they trust and believe Trump more than Clinton. Who are you, who are we, to say they are wrong?

I think we get a distorted and prejudiced view of Trump because reporting is filtered through the inherent bias of an unprofessional profession.

A journalist who only perceives and says negative things about one person and only perceives and says positive things about another person has lost their professional impartiality is biased.

A biased journalist is unable or unwilling to recognise trends contrary to their own narrowly crafted and preferred world view.

To accuse Trump of “blatant dishonesty”, but to ignore the dishonesty and lies of Clinton is to show bias.

Such a journalist then becomes ineffective in accurately reporting and analysing events, the point of their profession, because they have lost touch with those evolving factors that define and shape reality.

They do not understand the changes that occur because they are blinded by their own bias. The opinions of approved Facebook friends and followed Tweeters reinforces bias while those holding contrary views will be ignored, blocked, mocked and trolled.

The less a person’s impartiality, the deeper is their bias, the more impaired is their judgement and the greater is their vitriol when events do not transpire in accordance with their wishes. It has been amusing and somewhat satisfying to see so many dummy spits from so-called political experts over the last 24 hours. All proven wrong.

Ronald Reagan was also ridiculed and vilified before his election, but what we have seen directed against Donald Trump has been far, far worse. Reagan turned out to be quite a good president. So take a deep breath and give Trump a fair go. Don’t fret because like all politicians, he will not fulfil all promises.

justin heywood said :

Charlotte Harper said

“….because many, many citizens are not living the cushy life of the inner-city elite…..They fear for their families’ futures as they are unemployed or at risk of losing their jobs due to economic change driven by globalisation. They’re looking for someone to blame, and for champions who will stand up for their right to a better life.”

There’s the problem. Right there. The ‘inner city elite’ dominate the public agenda. Look at our public broadcaster, look at our ‘quality’ papers, the SMH, The Age, our public intellectuals. And Waleed Aly.
Green Left groupthink dominates the thinking, and rarely will any public figure risk the wrath of the twitter-sphere by straying outside ‘correct’ thinking. People from the suburbs, people outside the political or media class are not even listened to, let alone understood, and therefore ‘they’ must ‘live in fear’ or be stupid, usually both.

In my experience, people living outside the city centres, who live normal lives with normal concerns, are not generally fearful or stupid. In fact, they are often intelligent, hardworking people who resent being told what they should think or be concerned about. They reject the idea that an Arts degree and a suit automatically confers authority.

Trump is undoubtedly a buffoon, but his election demonstrates how sharp the disconnect between The Establishment and the people has become.

Agree with that although Trump is no ordinary buffoon.

The left are now claiming he is “not their president”, hilarious.

Blen_Carmichael4:17 pm 10 Nov 16

Charlotte Harper said :

When the US president wields so much power and influence over the world, never mind the USA, how democratic is it that a proportionate minority of white Americans can put into power such a destructive world leader against the will of the global community?

I recall back in 2004 some well-minded people (I’m being kind) in Britain took it upon themselves to ring American voters en masse and implore them not to return George W. Bush to the White House. Funny enough it had the reverse effect, the Americans angrily telling the Brits what they could do with their unsolicited advice.

Reading your condemnation of these “white” Americans who supposedly voted against the “will of the global community”, I’m reminded of those sentiments.

Hilliary’s lying and corruption is some how better for America than Donalds ? Hilliary couldn’t even come out and thank her supporters . She dumped them all with in 12 hours.

Thank God the left in America can’t boot out their president like the lefty bed wetters did here when Tony Abbott was democratically elected by the Australian public.

bronal said :

JC said :

bronal said :

I think the best thing is to take a ‘wait and see’ approach. All of Trump’s statements have been made from a position in which he has had no authority or responsibility. Up to now he has merely been a candidate. All that will change when he assumes office and is briefed on the implications and repercussions of his proposals.

So you are saying he has done an Abbott? Say what the public wants to hear rom a position in which he has had no authority or responsibility. Get the votes, but when he gets in power will carry on and do as he likes because he now has the authority to do so. Hmmm

I’m saying that it’s very easy to spout off during an election campaign and it will be much harder for him to live to live up those promises when he takes office. Remember Obama ‘yes we can’. Can what? Of course Trump will come up with some policies that will cause some people to choke on their Chardonnays but expect others to be toned down.

Indeed even harder in the US where the president may not even control the Senate or the House. Though believe Trump will have that control, but reckon the Party will help tone him down. Main job is done which is to keep the Democrats out of the presidency.

JC said :

bronal said :

I think the best thing is to take a ‘wait and see’ approach. All of Trump’s statements have been made from a position in which he has had no authority or responsibility. Up to now he has merely been a candidate. All that will change when he assumes office and is briefed on the implications and repercussions of his proposals.

So you are saying he has done an Abbott? Say what the public wants to hear rom a position in which he has had no authority or responsibility. Get the votes, but when he gets in power will carry on and do as he likes because he now has the authority to do so. Hmmm

I’m saying that it’s very easy to spout off during an election campaign and it will be much harder for him to live to live up those promises when he takes office. Remember Obama ‘yes we can’. Can what? Of course Trump will come up with some policies that will cause some people to choke on their Chardonnays but expect others to be toned down.

I can understand to an the underlying voter sentiment, same with Brexit and the resurgence of One Nation here. But what I don’t understand is why they think Trump can and will make any changes to suit them. The only thing that makes him different is he doesn’t have a political or government back ground.

But he is still a republican and represents the views of that party. He, more than anyone has benefited personally from everything that the country bumkins despise. He has made money off Wall Street. He owns dozens of hotels, who if going by my US hotel experiences will have employeed latina house maids and other minority groups as cheap labour, and his official hats, made in China. Indeed reported in the paper today, yeah I know those lefty liars that he is proposing to put in place Steve Mnuchin, who worked at Goldman Sachs, you know one of those Wall Street bastards the public want to bring down as Treasury Secretary.

I’ve always though Trump was a clown and it looks like the joke is really on the American people.

Tony Abbott is getting some respite at last.

He has relinquished his title-hold over sexism and misogyny to another world leader who is also being blamed for everything that will go wrong in the next four years.

Just like Obama getting the $1 million dollar Nobel Peace Prize in 2008 on speculation that he was going to good and great things during his first four years.

At least he got to keep the money.

bronal said :

I think the best thing is to take a ‘wait and see’ approach. All of Trump’s statements have been made from a position in which he has had no authority or responsibility. Up to now he has merely been a candidate. All that will change when he assumes office and is briefed on the implications and repercussions of his proposals.

So you are saying he has done an Abbott? Say what the public wants to hear rom a position in which he has had no authority or responsibility. Get the votes, but when he gets in power will carry on and do as he likes because he now has the authority to do so. Hmmm

I know Americans here in Canberra who voted for Trump – which was far more a vote against Hillary than it was a vote for Donald. This is something we really don’t understand here. People in the USA really, really hate the Clintons, despite all their celebrity endorsements and the fact they apparently had the votes of many minority groups.

Charlotte Harper said :

dungfungus said :

“Mr Trump’s blatant dishonesty……”

I missed that. Can you give some details, please?

Sure thing, dungfungus:
‘When Politico attempted to measure how many lies Trump told over the course of 4.6 hours of speeches, they found that he lied, on average, once every five minutes. When Huffington Post catalogued his lies over the course of just one town hall event, they came up with 71 lies. ‘
Here’s a list of 101 Trump lies:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/4834/trumps-101-lies-hank-berrien#

I wasn’t aware that “fact checking” was such a big industry. It appears that Trump is indeed a terrible liar.
Can’t understand why the American voters chose him over the pristine Hilary Clinton.

Charlotte Harper11:58 am 10 Nov 16

dungfungus said :

“Mr Trump’s blatant dishonesty……”

I missed that. Can you give some details, please?

Sure thing, dungfungus:
‘When Politico attempted to measure how many lies Trump told over the course of 4.6 hours of speeches, they found that he lied, on average, once every five minutes. When Huffington Post catalogued his lies over the course of just one town hall event, they came up with 71 lies. ‘
Here’s a list of 101 Trump lies:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/4834/trumps-101-lies-hank-berrien#

There’s similarities between the US and ACT election too.

A poorly performing ACT government treating it’s people badly with poor decisions and running a policy that was widely criticised publicly by experts and most in the community. Most people were expecting them to be kicked out because they didn’t deserve another term.

A US candidate treating most people badly, running policies being criticised and ridiculed widely. Most people expecting him not to be elected as he didn’t deserve to be there.

The next 4 years everyone is at their peril.

Charlotte Harper11:49 am 10 Nov 16

chewy14 said :

It’s media articles and attitudes like this that have won Trump the US election.

You say “we” should engage people who are feeling disenfranchised but then go on to label their views with insults and ad hominem attacks.

The reason that Trump won is the moral posturing of left wing supporters and media. I fully agree that Trump is not fit to be the president of the USA because of his policies and positions but the media have actively driven his supporters and victory with their vitriol.

I did not set out to insult or attack anyone. In general I try to avoid doing so at all times.
You’re right about the media. Most of the high profile newspapers in the US are based in big cities on the east and west coast: Washington Post, New York Times, LA Times etc, which makes it difficult for their journalists to connect with citizens in other states.
Social media is a huge issue, too. We tend to follow influencers/ media companies who are of like mind/reflect our views, which as we increasingly get all of our news from social media, creates a huge divide. I have Facebook friends from all over the place, including a couple of dozen in the US, but only one even hinted that they weren’t pro-Clinton. It was an echo chamber of anti-Trump sentiment. Clearly the social media spheres of those in the pro-Trump camp were the opposite. Facebook creates a digital wall between those who hold contrasting views, which is very dangerous, I think.

“Mr Trump’s blatant dishonesty……”

I missed that. Can you give some details, please?

You forget to mention that he eats babies too.

I think the best thing is to take a ‘wait and see’ approach. All of Trump’s statements have been made from a position in which he has had no authority or responsibility. Up to now he has merely been a candidate. All that will change when he assumes office and is briefed on the implications and repercussions of his proposals.

justin heywood11:02 am 10 Nov 16

Charlotte Harper said

“….because many, many citizens are not living the cushy life of the inner-city elite…..They fear for their families’ futures as they are unemployed or at risk of losing their jobs due to economic change driven by globalisation. They’re looking for someone to blame, and for champions who will stand up for their right to a better life.”

There’s the problem. Right there. The ‘inner city elite’ dominate the public agenda. Look at our public broadcaster, look at our ‘quality’ papers, the SMH, The Age, our public intellectuals. And Waleed Aly.
Green Left groupthink dominates the thinking, and rarely will any public figure risk the wrath of the twitter-sphere by straying outside ‘correct’ thinking. People from the suburbs, people outside the political or media class are not even listened to, let alone understood, and therefore ‘they’ must ‘live in fear’ or be stupid, usually both.

In my experience, people living outside the city centres, who live normal lives with normal concerns, are not generally fearful or stupid. In fact, they are often intelligent, hardworking people who resent being told what they should think or be concerned about. They reject the idea that an Arts degree and a suit automatically confers authority.

Trump is undoubtedly a buffoon, but his election demonstrates how sharp the disconnect between The Establishment and the people has become.

Yes – more noise/scare from the bastion of leftism, Canberra. Whilst I’m certainly no Trump fan, fact is that Clinton represented the same old, same old to US voters. Heard a report last night that claimed a world wide trend as Governments viewed as being left leaning, are being replaced – including because of border protection/migration.

So, the left have adopted the mantra of Canberra being “progressive” and voted back ACt Labor/Greens. So be it.

Is it being “progressive” and “open minded” to make housing unaffordable by drip feeding land releases? Is it “progressive” to make housing unaffordable by increasing Annual Rates by avg. 10% pa (units 20% increase this year + 15% next year) so that even if unit/homeowners can afford to buy into the market, they risk losing it later due to artificially high Annual Rates ? Where does that “progressiveness” leave average wage earners, the aged, the retired, the disabled, etc, who have a house/unit or aspire to ownership !

The ACT already has the 2nd highest rate of homelessness in the country (2nd only to the NT with its much higher indigenous population !) and this morning, a report that performance of the Canberra Hospital has again worsened (shame that report didn’t come out a few weeks back !), ACT Labor/Greens poor fiscal priority setting and too much wasted Ratepayers $, the Territory deficit, issues redevelopment/infill, the war against cars, trams, degradation of municipal services, impact of Unions via the MOU etc, etc…….

Too many in Canberra are being left behind, as in the USA. So much for a “progressive” and “open minded” Canberra.

It remains to be seen what Trump will actually do/can do now in power. Best to judge that by what happens in the next 12 months, rather than run scared now.

It’s media articles and attitudes like this that have won Trump the US election.

You say “we” should engage people who are feeling disenfranchised but then go on to label their views with insults and ad hominem attacks.

The reason that Trump won is the moral posturing of left wing supporters and media. I fully agree that Trump is not fit to be the president of the USA because of his policies and positions but the media have actively driven his supporters and victory with their vitriol.

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