28 September 2016

Inner south crowd spurn ALP, Greens

| Charlotte
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Liberal and Canberra Community Voters candidates

If the crowd at the Inner South Canberra Community Council’s election forum tonight is representative of Canberra voting intentions generally, both Labor and the Greens are in BIG trouble.*

There will be no light rail in Canberra after the election, not over the dead bodies of many of these voters.**

The Safe Schools program will be banished, never to be mentioned again. Ditto the acronym LGBTQI, which left several attendees looking confused when dropped into the conversation by Greens candidate Rebecca Vassarotti.

Crowd

Rates will be frozen for two years, then capped in line with CPI.***

There will be no development at Manuka Oval at all. Unsolicited proposals will be banned.

Politicians will keep in touch with voters by spending their weekends and evenings door-knocking beyond the campaign, nay, in perpetuity.****

Independent, Labor, Greens and minor party candidates.

Independent candidate Marea Fatseas, who is clearly something of a heroine in this particular community, will be Chief Minister as a compromise between the two major parties in the Assembly: the Liberals and the Canberra Community Voters group.

Wow. Until this moment, I had believed the experts who have been telling me for months that candidates from the major parties and Greens were the only ones with a chance of being elected.

Now I’m not so sure. If ever there were a room full of people who seemed as though they might think 15 years was long enough for one mob to be in government, this was it. If ever there were a room full of voters who were cynical about the major parties, I’d found it. If ever there were a room full of voters who were ready to embrace alternatives if it might mean relief from rising rates and the “horrors” of a light rail network, I was sitting in it.

You could almost hear them all (yes, all) making a mental note to refer back to come election day when Mike Hettinger of Canberra Community Voters advised them that the only way to be sure of getting independent candidates up was to leave the boxes next to Labor, Liberals and Greens blank and number only the boxes for the minor party representatives and independents.

I have no doubt that readers (and political candidates and their minders) will take one look at the photograph here and dismiss this crowd as “old” and “out of touch”.

I can’t argue with the former given one major plus about the whole event was how youthful I felt in their presence.

But out of touch? These are residents who regularly attend community meetings, read newspapers and listen to the radio. They contribute substantially to the Territory’s revenue each year through their high rates (yes, calculated on land value of the inner south blocks on which they live, but high from their perspective in the context of the retirement incomes from which they must be paid). These are voters who have genuine concerns that have not been addressed successfully by the Barr Government to date.

The wars over Manuka Oval, the Yarralumla Brickworks and MOCCA/Telopea Park School tennis courts are in the past (for the moment, at least), but new battlegrounds emerge constantly, with the matter of a six-storey hotel directly opposite Forrest Primary among those mentioned last night.

These are the issues that have mobilised this crowd, this time, but you get the feeling many of these electors have been mobilised before. They probably voted against self-government or for the Residents Rally at the first Legislative Assembly election in 1989. Have they been this angry and anti-establishment since? I doubt it.

Will their vote have an impact in the seat of Kurrajong next month? Sure. Ms Fatseas is shaping up to be the most successful of all independent candidates running at this election. Will it be enough to see her win office? I doubt it.

* Both Greens candidate Rebecca Vassarotti and Labor candidate Rachel Stevens-Smith spoke calmly and rationally about the cost of light rail, but were shouted down by those in the audience who deemed their statements to be outright lies.
** Independent candidate Peter Robinson promised at one point that though he was anti-tram, he would not go so far as to throw himself under one, Anna Karenina-style, if the light rail went ahead.
*** Canberra Community Voters candidate Lucinda Spier is making the rates issue her own, harking back to her days as founder of the Canberra Rates Association late last century. Ms Spier is also focused on government transparency.
Her husband is registered as a lobbyist in the ACT Legislative Assembly on behalf of clients including the Superbarn group and Australian Hotels Association. Ms Spier’s name also appears on that listing, as a company director, but she is not a lobbyist herself as earlier reported here.
**** One Liberal candidate, Brooke Curtin (as in the suburb, as she reminded us three times) claims she stopped counting doors upon which she has knocked in recent months at 7000. There were nods of acknowledgement at her commitment level around the room.

Frankly, we were also impressed. Come to think of it, this whole exercise was impressive. It made me feel very fortunate to live in a city in which so many are engaged with our democratic processes.

Speaking of which, departing felt a little like arriving at a polling booth. Supporters of Ms Fatseas were waiting at the main exit with copies of the independent candidate’s flyer and a photocopy of an anti-light rail article. I took copies of each then stepped outside the room, only to stumble upon this:

Marea Fatseas

The major parties were nowhere to be seen.

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Aragornerama1:22 pm 16 Oct 16

So it turns out this crowd was thoroughly unrepresentative. No way, who’d a thunk it?

Charlotte Harper said :

Deref said :

“The Safe Schools program will be banished, never to be mentioned again. Ditto the acronym LGBTQI”

My oh my – what an ignorant homophobic rant.

It’s great if they’re abandoning Labor and the Greens – as long as they don’t replace them with Liberals or, far worse, the Rise Up candidates (running as independents) or the (even more) extreme right Liberal Democrats.

I just wanted to make it clear that no one came out with an “ignorant homophobic rant”. I based my assessment of the crowd’s views on Safe Schools and awareness of the acronym LGBQTI entirely on observation of their murmurings, body posture and facial expressions.

Why are you only referring to LGBTQI?

What happened to the ‘A’s in LGBTQIA?

Are you denying their existence? Erasing diversity? Failing to show inclusiveness?

This is linguistic genocide.

FYI the full correct acronym is now: LGBTQQIP2SAA

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/06/27/entire-lgbt-acronym_n_10616392.html

Murmurings, body postures and facial expressions follow….

Charlotte Harper8:36 pm 08 Oct 16

It is indeed likely there would have been further baffled glances between attendees around the room had the candidates referred to LGBTQQIP2SAA.

Charlotte Harper said :

Deref said :

“The Safe Schools program will be banished, never to be mentioned again. Ditto the acronym LGBTQI”

My oh my – what an ignorant homophobic rant.

It’s great if they’re abandoning Labor and the Greens – as long as they don’t replace them with Liberals or, far worse, the Rise Up candidates (running as independents) or the (even more) extreme right Liberal Democrats.

I just wanted to make it clear that no one came out with an “ignorant homophobic rant”. I based my assessment of the crowd’s views on Safe Schools and awareness of the acronym LGBQTI entirely on observation of their murmurings, body posture and facial expressions.

Charlotte, you should familiarise yourself with the various factions in the gay movement before making blanket statements about Safe Schools and the LGBTQI acronym. There is a more conservative wing of the gay movement – most notably the bears – who are in many cases aggressively male who don’t support concepts such as “gender fluidity” as taught by Safe Schools. Many also don’t identify with the LGBTQI label either and prefer to use the word gay as the generic term.

Charlotte Harper5:03 pm 07 Oct 16

@John Moulis, I simply observed that the attendees at this event appeared to be opposed to the Safe Schools program and appeared not to be familiar with the term LGBTQI. I think you too are misunderstanding my column here.

Matt Donnelly10:44 am 06 Oct 16

Deref said :

It’s great if they’re abandoning Labor and the Greens – as long as they don’t replace them with Liberals or, far worse, the Rise Up candidates (running as independents) or the (even more) extreme right Liberal Democrats.

Deref, the ACT Liberal Democrats is not an extreme right-wing party. I appreciate that the Lib Dems’ philosophy may confuse those who apply left and right labels to political ideologies. For instance, legalisation of marijuana for personal use or support for gay marriage is often regarded as left-wing, while reducing taxes and govt involvement in our lives may be regarded as right-wing.

I encourage you to visit our website, check out our policies, and see for yourself what the ACT Liberal Democrats offer in relation to education, health, public housing and transport for Canberrans. We have seventeen candidates running in this election, including three in the inner south (Kurrajong). I am one of five Lib Dems candidates for Brindabella. http://act-ldp.org.au/Policies.html

Charlotte Harper10:42 am 06 Oct 16

Deref said :

“The Safe Schools program will be banished, never to be mentioned again. Ditto the acronym LGBTQI”

My oh my – what an ignorant homophobic rant.

It’s great if they’re abandoning Labor and the Greens – as long as they don’t replace them with Liberals or, far worse, the Rise Up candidates (running as independents) or the (even more) extreme right Liberal Democrats.

I just wanted to make it clear that no one came out with an “ignorant homophobic rant”. I based my assessment of the crowd’s views on Safe Schools and awareness of the acronym LGBQTI entirely on observation of their murmurings, body posture and facial expressions.

Deref said :

My oh my – what an ignorant homophobic rant.

Of course, anyone who has a different view to those supporting the Safe Schools Program or Gay Marriage is tagged as “an ignorant homophobic”. Of course, its so obvious isnt it.

Denunciation completed.

In news that surprises nobody, a meeting of the Liberal Heartland declared that all change from 1950s values is evil and must be stopped.

“The Safe Schools program will be banished, never to be mentioned again. Ditto the acronym LGBTQI”

My oh my – what an ignorant homophobic rant.

It’s great if they’re abandoning Labor and the Greens – as long as they don’t replace them with Liberals or, far worse, the Rise Up candidates (running as independents) or the (even more) extreme right Liberal Democrats.

KentFitch said :

bringontheevidence said :

You completely missed my point.

Where I ‘want’ to live is really irrelevant to the story, what matters is people opposing the development of something that isn’t theirs (vacant public land) is actually imposing significant costs on everyone except themselves.

It’s not about ‘envy’. Envy would be wanting to take something that is theirs. The land around the brickworks, LBG and it’s parklands are not owned by the residents of Yarralumla, they are owned by all Canberrans. By denying access to those public assets the residents are actually appropriating property that bis not their own for their own benefit.

Back in the 1970’s the first “Green Ban” was put in place to prevent the clearing of Kelly’s Bush, the last undeveloped part of Hunter’s Hill (goddam “vacant public land”, practically Terra bloody Nullius). The local NIMBYs asked the BLF and Jack Mundey for help, and a movement began which I think most people are now grateful for.

Sir Robert Askin was not amused. His mates felt let-down.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/230397532
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/230399422
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/110758730
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/116343501

Take a step back and think about different ways of maximising quality of life and minimising environmental harm which don’t fit into current ideological lines. You don’t have to destroy the environment to save it. “First, do no harm.”

“…the union’s green bans were supported keenly by resident action groups, generally more representative of community sentiments than the local councils, which almost invariably favored the land development interests that, for a range of historical reasons, had always been over-represented at local government level.”
http://dictionaryofsydney.org/entry/green_bans_movement

Gen X and Gen Ys need to come along to resident’s action group meetings and take on a greater role in community activism in the spirit of the Green Bans. Don’t just leave preservation of our green spaces, woodlands and birdlife to your parents and grandparents. When faced with a local council (like the ACT Government) overly influenced, if not controlled by property developers, the community needs to unite and fight for what it values.

bringontheevidence said :

You completely missed my point.

Where I ‘want’ to live is really irrelevant to the story, what matters is people opposing the development of something that isn’t theirs (vacant public land) is actually imposing significant costs on everyone except themselves.

It’s not about ‘envy’. Envy would be wanting to take something that is theirs. The land around the brickworks, LBG and it’s parklands are not owned by the residents of Yarralumla, they are owned by all Canberrans. By denying access to those public assets the residents are actually appropriating property that bis not their own for their own benefit.

Back in the 1970’s the first “Green Ban” was put in place to prevent the clearing of Kelly’s Bush, the last undeveloped part of Hunter’s Hill (goddam “vacant public land”, practically Terra bloody Nullius). The local NIMBYs asked the BLF and Jack Mundey for help, and a movement began which I think most people are now grateful for. Sir Robert Askin was not amused. His mates felt let-down.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/230397532
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/230399422
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/110758730
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/116343501

Take a step back and think about different ways of maximising quality of life and minimising environmental harm which don’t fit into current ideological lines. You don’t have to destroy the environment to save it. “First, do no harm.”

bringontheevidence said :

To be honest yes, I am annoyed that I don’t even have the option of buying a nice townhouse or 3brm apartment in a place like Yarralumla. So instead of having a great place available to raise children that’s close to work, close to the lake and close to the city I have to settle for something further out that costs me more to travel and is nowhere near the lake and its extensive (taxpayer funded) parklands.

My taxes and rates then have to fund more roads and PT, the surrounding bushland of Canberra is forced to be eroded by more and more suburbs, and way too much of my time and everyone elses is spent travelling from place to place.

All so a bunch of selfish NIMBYs can keep land that isn’t theirs being developed for the benefit of the other 95 per cent of the population?

Who wouldnt want to live in Yarralumla! I would too. Maybe we should encourage 20 storey blocks there to get more people sharing the benefits?

So, bringontheevidence, I’m wondering, say when the Brickworks are redeveloped, leaving plenty of green space for your kids to play in (curse those NIMBYs for not building the place out..), and you took the big gulp and signed up for the mortgage on your $2m 3 bed townhouse, and life was sweet as…

Next year, some property developers said to their LDA buddies “that park opposite those townhouses – bit excessive, dont you reckon, mate? Hardly ever used when we drive past. Bit on an eyesore, actually – gone a bit feral – people are worried about groups of teenagers hanging about there. And underutilised, dont you think? Look, we got this crack architect to give us some ideas – he did a lot of the Foreshore icons – here’s a plan for real value capture – nice compact 10 storey development of 80 eco-units, some of them are two bedrooms, but we dont think they need windows in that 2nd bedroom – lets us keep the facade clean. ‘Yarralumla EcoSkyTower’ we’re calling it. And we’re putting in some vibrant swinging hot-spots on the ground floor – finally you’ll be able to get a decent cappachino in Yarralumla – you guys will clean up – there’s an extra $300K annually in rates just there, and we’ll slip you $10m for the land – happy days!”

I guess you’d be responding to the DA, saying “80 units! Come-on, build 20 stories and make it worthwhile!”

bringontheevidence10:19 am 29 Sep 16

rommeldog56 said :

bringontheevidence said :

To be honest yes, I am annoyed that I don’t even have the option of buying a nice townhouse or 3brm apartment in a place like Yarralumla. So instead of having a great place available to raise children that’s close to work, close to the lake and close to the city I have to settle for something further out that costs me more to travel and is nowhere near the lake and its extensive (taxpayer funded) parklands.

My taxes and rates then have to fund more roads and PT, the surrounding bushland of Canberra is forced to be eroded by more and more suburbs, and way too much of my time and everyone elses is spent travelling from place to place.

All so a bunch of selfish NIMBYs can keep land that isn’t theirs being developed for the benefit of the other 95 per cent of the population?

Just another example on here of the politics on envy. Like may of the Yarralumla residents no doubt did to afford to buy there, maybe work harder, do better. I dont begrudge them living there or defending the suburb/lifestyle/environment they have.

Alternatively, vote in a soviet/socialist style Govt here and maybe all Yarralumla residences could be requisitioned by the State and reallocated.

You completely missed my point.

Where I ‘want’ to live is really irrelevant to the story, what matters is people opposing the development of something that isn’t theirs (vacant public land) is actually imposing significant costs on everyone except themselves.

It’s not about ‘envy’. Envy would be wanting to take something that is theirs. The land around the brickworks, LBG and it’s parklands are not owned by the residents of Yarralumla, they are owned by all Canberrans. By denying access to those public assets the residents are actually appropriating property that bis not their own for their own benefit.

bringontheevidence said :

To be honest yes, I am annoyed that I don’t even have the option of buying a nice townhouse or 3brm apartment in a place like Yarralumla. So instead of having a great place available to raise children that’s close to work, close to the lake and close to the city I have to settle for something further out that costs me more to travel and is nowhere near the lake and its extensive (taxpayer funded) parklands.

My taxes and rates then have to fund more roads and PT, the surrounding bushland of Canberra is forced to be eroded by more and more suburbs, and way too much of my time and everyone elses is spent travelling from place to place.

All so a bunch of selfish NIMBYs can keep land that isn’t theirs being developed for the benefit of the other 95 per cent of the population?

Just another example on here of the politics on envy. Like may of the Yarralumla residents no doubt did to afford to buy there, maybe work harder, do better. I dont begrudge them living there or defending the suburb/lifestyle/environment they have.

Alternatively, vote in a soviet/socialist style Govt here and maybe all Yarralumla residences could be requisitioned by the State and reallocated.

Yeah – I got a call from a worried-sounding Labor volunteer. Too late! I pre-polled.

justin heywood9:13 pm 28 Sep 16

bringontheevidence said :

To be honest yes, I am annoyed that I don’t even have the option of buying a nice townhouse or 3brm apartment in a place like Yarralumla. So instead of having a great place available to raise children that’s close to work, close to the lake and close to the city I have to settle for something further out that costs me more to travel and is nowhere near the lake and its extensive (taxpayer funded) parklands.

A couple of points;

-Does it not occur to you that one of the main reasons Yarralumla is a nice area is precisely because it HASN’T been developed into wall-to-wall townhouses?
.
– I share your annoyance that I can’t afford to live in a better area (Mosman foreshore in my case). But I blame my lack of application at school and my discovery of sex whilst at University for my lack of good fortune, rather than blame the people who currently live on the Mosman foreshore.

And if you’re looking for someone to blame for Canberra’s sprawling nature, I reckon you need to look somewhat higher up the food chain than a community meeting.

bringontheevidence8:10 pm 28 Sep 16

justin heywood said :

bringontheevidence said :

Because older, wealthier residents of established suburbs do everything in their power to prevent new development….

reddy84 said :

…not representative of the rest of the ACT. They are …extremely protective of their financial assets and lifestyle (sometimes to the detriment of the greater population).

So…. you don’t like these people because they are self-interested, unlike the selfless, public-spirited people of other suburbs. Presumably, if it wasn’t for them you’d be in a funky new townhouse in Yarralumla, for a song.

Perhaps (just perhaps), you don’t like these people because they didn’t cheer for whatever team you follow.

To be honest yes, I am annoyed that I don’t even have the option of buying a nice townhouse or 3brm apartment in a place like Yarralumla. So instead of having a great place available to raise children that’s close to work, close to the lake and close to the city I have to settle for something further out that costs me more to travel and is nowhere near the lake and its extensive (taxpayer funded) parklands.

My taxes and rates then have to fund more roads and PT, the surrounding bushland of Canberra is forced to be eroded by more and more suburbs, and way too much of my time and everyone elses is spent travelling from place to place.

All so a bunch of selfish NIMBYs can keep land that isn’t theirs being developed for the benefit of the other 95 per cent of the population?

justin heywood6:15 pm 28 Sep 16

bringontheevidence said :

Because older, wealthier residents of established suburbs do everything in their power to prevent new development….

reddy84 said :

…not representative of the rest of the ACT. They are …extremely protective of their financial assets and lifestyle (sometimes to the detriment of the greater population).

So…. you don’t like these people because they are self-interested, unlike the selfless, public-spirited people of other suburbs. Presumably, if it wasn’t for them you’d be in a funky new townhouse in Yarralumla, for a song.

Perhaps (just perhaps), you don’t like these people because they didn’t cheer for whatever team you follow.

bringontheevidence said :

dungfungus said :

reddy84 said :

The demographics of the inner south are not representative of the rest of the ACT. They are older, wealthier, more conservative and extremely protective of their financial assets and lifestyle (sometimes to the detriment of the greater population). Just have a look at their historical voting preference compared to everyone else.

In what way are this demographic’s attitude “sometimes to the detriment of the greater population”?

Because older, wealthier residents of established suburbs do everything in their power to prevent new development anywhere near them, restricting access to those areas to new residents and forcing the population to spread out to new areas away from services and work.

Think about the brickworks selfishness. Instead of a new, vibrant precinct with some 1800 dwellings in the inner south, with close access to Civic and the Parliamentary Triangle, the number of dwellings has been slashed to 360 odd. That means something like 2000 people who ‘could’ have lived in Yarralumla will now have to find somewhere else to live. That means either much more clearing and development on the outskirts, or potentially a lot more demand (and therefore cost) on other developments around the inner north and inner south.

Did it ever occur to you that not everybody wants Canberra to become “vibrant”?

Why is that Canberra must have this unbridled development?

bringontheevidence2:12 pm 28 Sep 16

dungfungus said :

reddy84 said :

The demographics of the inner south are not representative of the rest of the ACT. They are older, wealthier, more conservative and extremely protective of their financial assets and lifestyle (sometimes to the detriment of the greater population). Just have a look at their historical voting preference compared to everyone else.

In what way are this demographic’s attitude “sometimes to the detriment of the greater population”?

Because older, wealthier residents of established suburbs do everything in their power to prevent new development anywhere near them, restricting access to those areas to new residents and forcing the population to spread out to new areas away from services and work.

Think about the brickworks selfishness. Instead of a new, vibrant precinct with some 1800 dwellings in the inner south, with close access to Civic and the Parliamentary Triangle, the number of dwellings has been slashed to 360 odd. That means something like 2000 people who ‘could’ have lived in Yarralumla will now have to find somewhere else to live. That means either much more clearing and development on the outskirts, or potentially a lot more demand (and therefore cost) on other developments around the inner north and inner south.

reddy84 said :

The demographics of the inner south are not representative of the rest of the ACT. They are older, wealthier, more conservative and extremely protective of their financial assets and lifestyle (sometimes to the detriment of the greater population). Just have a look at their historical voting preference compared to everyone else.

In what way are this demographic’s attitude “sometimes to the detriment of the greater population”?

The demographics of the inner south are not representative of the rest of the ACT. They are older, wealthier, more conservative and extremely protective of their financial assets and lifestyle (sometimes to the detriment of the greater population). Just have a look at their historical voting preference compared to everyone else.

irritable said :

“old” and “out of touch”

Yes, and generally not representative of the typical Canberra demographic that averages 34 years of age. These are the usual vocal minority, your typical Canberra NIMBYs.

No more than 50 people in a room holding a grudge won’t make any difference to the voting habits of the (generally politically apathetic) silent majority who continue to vote along party lines as they always have.

So, let me get this right. If an ACT voter/ratepayer isn’t one of these “generally politically apathetic” silent majority, they are NIMBYS ? Pretty narrow view of things. However, personally I agree with your claim that the silent majority will continue to vote along party lines. Sadly.

Good report on the meeting, I was present.
Marea Fatseas, as an Independent, has little chance up against the party machines but she is having a go. She is not facebook savvy and so will not reach the younger demographic that have no idea the work she has put into advocating for her community and her ethics.
Both parties have rigged the system to limit the chances of independents

“old” and “out of touch”

Yes, and generally not representative of the typical Canberra demographic that averages 34 years of age. These are the usual vocal minority, your typical Canberra NIMBYs.

No more than 50 people in a room holding a grudge won’t make any difference to the voting habits of the (generally politically apathetic) silent majority who continue to vote along party lines as they always have.

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