Julia to dump Indonesian fisher folk into Canberra’s justice system

johnboy 28 May 2011 23

The Canberra Times brings word that the Commonwealth is planning to spread the pain of its campaign against “people smugglers” (aka noble impoverished fishermen willing to spend years in our prisons to earn their families enough money to eat while helping desperate people to a better life.)

People smugglers caught in northern Australian waters will be tried in Canberra courts and locked up in the territory’s jail, under a Federal Government plan.

The decision could see Indonesian fishermen jailed for at least five years in the Alexander Maconochie Centre or the Bimberi Youth Justice Centre.

Under the Commonwealth’s scheme, the alleged offenders mostly from Indonesia will face courts and prison in states and territories as far away from their homeland as Tasmania, and local authorities are not being given a choice in the matter.

Bear in mind the “people smugglers” who get caught are not the criminal kingpins, they’re just a couple of blokes per boat with a bare modicum of nautical knowledge willing to take a payment and the following punishment to deliver what are 9 times out of 10 legitimate refugees to our shores.

The ACT’s legal aid budget is now going to get chewed up defending them, and then we have to pay to incarcerate them.


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23 Responses to Julia to dump Indonesian fisher folk into Canberra’s justice system
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colourful sydney racing identity colourful sydney racing identity 9:33 am 31 May 11

Pommy bastard said :

Jethro, my point did not mention, in anyway or in any context that prisoners should be denied shelter, food, exercise and health care, did it?

Oh, come on. While you did not state it explicitly you clearly implied it.

Mental Health Worker Mental Health Worker 8:19 am 31 May 11

PB said: “Come and stay in Sunny Canberra, at the luxurious Hume Hilton. Free room and board, free three meals a day, luxury gym and spa, education classes and workshps, free medical and dental checks, all the entertainment you could wish for, including free internet, (drugs may incur an additional cost.)”

there is no internet access worth speaking of
there is no spa (or swimming pool, before anyone suggests that tool)
there are no workshops
there is no “luxury” gym – just a basic one
not sure what “entertainment” is being referred to – free to air TV perhaps?
Canberra isn’t always sunny, not compared with Indonesia anyway.
I doubt poor illiterate Indonesian fishermen will get to choose which State or Territory they are locked up in, thousands of km from their families, and only able to afford to communicate with them by letter.

But hey, why let facts get in the way of an argument?

Clearly we should incarcerate people (including the 40% in the AMC who are unconvicted) in cardboard boxes in the middle of a roundabout and beat them to sleep each night with a carving knife. (Insincere apologies to Monty Python.)

MHW

Spideydog Spideydog 11:00 am 29 May 11

Jethro said :

Pommy bastard said :

The decision could see Indonesian fishermen jailed for at least five years in the Alexander Maconochie Centre or the Bimberi Youth Justice Centre.

Dear god, let’s hope word doesn’t get out about how the place is run, or they will be producing tourist brochures for it in Indonesia.

“Come and stay in Sunny Canberra, at the uxurious Hume Hilton. Free room and board, free three meals a day, luxury gym and spa, education classes and workshps, free medical and dental checks, all the entertainment you could wish for, including free internet, (drugs may incur an additional cost.)”

PB is right. Our justice system is weak. How dare we provide prisoners with shelter, food, exercise and health care.

People should read PB’s post for what it actually was, not what they think.

As a side note, these wonderful human rights prisons are great and all for people that have no regard to the human rights of their victims and potential victims. Will be interesting to see in a few years time to see if this new system has any positive or negative impact on recidivism ……..

Proboscus Proboscus 8:19 am 29 May 11

It won’t happen.

My mail is that there isn’t enough room in the Hilton for our local scum, let alone for international guests.

creative_canberran creative_canberran 9:03 pm 28 May 11

johnboy said :

RTFM CC

Access to legal aid is subject to strict means and merit tests.
The case itself must have a reasonable chance of success before representation is considered.
Representation is also based on a means test of the applicant. Income must be far below the poverty level, and usually the applicant will be required to make upfront and ongoing contributions. If the financial circumstances of the applicant are so dire that contributions are not possible on their part, then assets will need to be put up as collateral. Only rarely is complete aid granted without assets.

Legal aid too is not an open ended agreement for assistance, it is a grant, made for a specific provision of time and expense.

Statistics show that a significant percentage of applications that do meet the requirements are still rejected for lack of available funds.

So as I said, these people will not get access to legal aid.

LeatherJen LeatherJen 8:36 pm 28 May 11

Clearly JB has personal knowledge of how people smuggling works. I’m quite interested in the issue, so any chance you could post up some more personal observations? Thanks in advance.

creative_canberran creative_canberran 6:21 pm 28 May 11

I think JB needs to check how legal aid works in this country. These people won’t have any access to it.

Jethro Jethro 6:06 pm 28 May 11

Pommy bastard said :

Jethro, my point did not mention, in anyway or in any context that prisoners should be denied shelter, food, exercise and health care, did it? Nope not at all, it’s all in your head.

That was just something you made up, and reflects the weakness of your position and your debating skills.

No you did not explicitly state this. However, the tone and content of your comment did make it clear that you view these things as excessive luxuries. As such, it was implied that you disagree with their being provided. Your rabidly reactionary views towards criminal justice are well known. Don’t get annoyed that I have called you on them.

Pommy bastard said :

My post, which anyone who reads it from a neutral position would see, made the point that the Hume Hilton is luxurious, (especially by comparison to the current situation of many Indonesians,) and by the word getting out on how luxurious (relatively or not) it is, and all the benefits of staying there, including healthcare etc, it may make the prospect of attempting to get to Aus MORE appealing rather than less.

Do you honestly believe that Canberra’s prisons are so luxurious that Indonesian fishermen will be so swayed by the joyous prospect of being imprisoned in them that they will happily commit immigration crimes simply so they may indulge in their supposedly resort-like facilities?

Pommy bastard said :

As I say, the left wingers here are so wrapped up in bandwagons and political correctness, that they view the world through such skewed lenses they can hardly make sense of it outside of those perspectives, and are totally hamstrung in debate. I imagine this is mainly due to them being raised in relative affluence of this comfortable city. I know for a fact that anyone of this coterie spouting their version of left wing ideology on the UK miners or steelworkers picket lines of the 1980’s (yes I was on them, ) would be lucky to be laughed at, but more likely to be beaten up. Middle class appropriation of the left has done it, and society, no favours.

There ends today’s lecture.

Why are you comparing the economic left to the social left? I don’t see how you think that social progressives have misappropriated the ideology of trade unionists. They are completely separate groups with separate beliefs. No-one is ‘left’ or ‘right’. For example, you are clearly on the ‘right’ when it comes to most social issues, but (based on your comment about being on the picket lines) on the ‘left’ when it comes to economic issues. I certainly don’t fit into any ideological camp (to quote the great Ferris Beuller, “-ism’s in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism. He should believe in himself.”)

Importantly, I don’t even feel like I do sit that far to the left when it comes to criminal justice. It may surprise you, but I actually agree with a lot of the issues you raise on this site regarding poor sentencing decisions in the ACT. There does appear to be a bias on our courts that puts the interests of the criminals over those of their victims and society.

However, I am also intelligent enough to realise that criminals aren’t made in a vacuum and that criminal justice is about more than satisfying the vindictive streak in some people. No one would argue that children who have to endure sexual or physical abuse or grow up around adult criminals are victims of circumstance. Society has compassion on these kids. There are very real reasons why these children are more likely to grow up and become criminals themselves. Judges should consider this. God forbid one of your kids should be sexually abused by a dodgy uncle or family friend and end up turning to drugs as a way of dealing with the hand life dealt them.

The world isn’t black and white. People aren’t good or evil. There are nuances. I’m not sure why you don’t see that whenever you bay for blood, demand retribution or mock the fact that the ACT attempts to run its prisons along human rights principles.

miz miz 5:11 pm 28 May 11

Can’t speak about legal aid, but the ACT Govt gets grant money from the Cth for each federal prisoner (which is what people smugglers are as they have committed an offence against Commonwealth law) – so ACT Corrective Services (ie ACT Govt) will not be out of pocket from that perspective.

My understanding is that they are trying to share the prosecutorial pain, as NT does not have sufficient resources in the Commonwealth DPP.

Pommy bastard Pommy bastard 4:42 pm 28 May 11

Jethro, my point did not mention, in anyway or in any context that prisoners should be denied shelter, food, exercise and health care, did it? Nope not at all, it’s all in your head.

That was just something you made up, and reflects the weakness of your position and your debating skills.

My post, which anyone who reads it from a neutral position would see, made the point that the Hume Hilton is luxurious, (especially by comparison to the current situation of many Indonesians,) and by the word getting out on how luxurious (relatively or not) it is, and all the benefits of staying there, including healthcare etc, it may make the prospect of attempting to get to Aus MORE appealing rather than less.

As I say, the left wingers here are so wrapped up in bandwagons and political correctness, that they view the world through such skewed lenses they can hardly make sense of it outside of those perspectives, and are totally hamstrung in debate. I imagine this is mainly due to them being raised in relative affluence of this comfortable city. I know for a fact that anyone of this coterie spouting their version of left wing ideology on the UK miners or steelworkers picket lines of the 1980’s (yes I was on them, ) would be lucky to be laughed at, but more likely to be beaten up. Middle class appropriation of the left has done it, and society, no favours.

There ends today’s lecture.

🙂

Jim Jones Jim Jones 4:30 pm 28 May 11

Jethro said :

Pommy bastard said :

Jethro said :

PB is right. Our justice system is weak. How dare we provide prisoners with shelter, food, exercise and health care.

Now there we have a classic bit of what passes for debate in the minds of the po-faced bleeding-heart left on this site….

No reference, contradiction, countering, or relationship to anything I said, but an extrapolation made up purely of “facts” which exist only in the mind of poster himself.

I think my comment was completely relevant. It was designed to highlight the ridiculous nature of your original comment, which seems to suggest you are against prisons providing the things you mentioned.

According to your post you think it is luxurious that prisoners are given “room and board” (shelter) “3 meals a day” (food), “luxury gym and spa” (exercise… and I’m wandering if you have ever actually stepped foot inside a prison… I’m not sure if I would label their exercise areas as luxurious), “free medical and dental checks” (health care).

As for the education.. would you suggest it is a better idea that we don’t try to provide prisoners with a chance of rehabilitating, educating themselves and maybe becoming more useful members of society?

Being in prison is the punishment. I don’t see why we need to get all medieval on the prisoners once they are in there. Unless of course you’re the vindictive type.

(BTW.. I am actually with you on the internet access… too much likelihood for misuse.)

+1

Well said: Logic and compassion is a refreshing change from the bigotry and bile that seems to spew from so many people’s mouths on this issue.

Jethro Jethro 4:14 pm 28 May 11

Pommy bastard said :

Jethro said :

PB is right. Our justice system is weak. How dare we provide prisoners with shelter, food, exercise and health care.

Now there we have a classic bit of what passes for debate in the minds of the po-faced bleeding-heart left on this site….

No reference, contradiction, countering, or relationship to anything I said, but an extrapolation made up purely of “facts” which exist only in the mind of poster himself.

I think my comment was completely relevant. It was designed to highlight the ridiculous nature of your original comment, which seems to suggest you are against prisons providing the things you mentioned.

According to your post you think it is luxurious that prisoners are given “room and board” (shelter) “3 meals a day” (food), “luxury gym and spa” (exercise… and I’m wandering if you have ever actually stepped foot inside a prison… I’m not sure if I would label their exercise areas as luxurious), “free medical and dental checks” (health care).

As for the education.. would you suggest it is a better idea that we don’t try to provide prisoners with a chance of rehabilitating, educating themselves and maybe becoming more useful members of society?

Being in prison is the punishment. I don’t see why we need to get all medieval on the prisoners once they are in there. Unless of course you’re the vindictive type.

(BTW.. I am actually with you on the internet access… too much likelihood for misuse.)

Pommy bastard Pommy bastard 3:25 pm 28 May 11

Jethro said :

PB is right. Our justice system is weak. How dare we provide prisoners with shelter, food, exercise and health care.

Now there we have a classic bit of what passes for debate in the minds of the po-faced bleeding-heart left on this site….

No reference, contradiction, countering, or relationship to anything I said, but an extrapolation made up purely of “facts” which exist only in the mind of poster himself.

Jethro Jethro 2:51 pm 28 May 11

Pommy bastard said :

The decision could see Indonesian fishermen jailed for at least five years in the Alexander Maconochie Centre or the Bimberi Youth Justice Centre.

Dear god, let’s hope word doesn’t get out about how the place is run, or they will be producing tourist brochures for it in Indonesia.

“Come and stay in Sunny Canberra, at the uxurious Hume Hilton. Free room and board, free three meals a day, luxury gym and spa, education classes and workshps, free medical and dental checks, all the entertainment you could wish for, including free internet, (drugs may incur an additional cost.)”

PB is right. Our justice system is weak. How dare we provide prisoners with shelter, food, exercise and health care.

Pommy bastard Pommy bastard 1:02 pm 28 May 11

The decision could see Indonesian fishermen jailed for at least five years in the Alexander Maconochie Centre or the Bimberi Youth Justice Centre.

Dear god, let’s hope word doesn’t get out about how the place is run, or they will be producing tourist brochures for it in Indonesia.

“Come and stay in Sunny Canberra, at the uxurious Hume Hilton. Free room and board, free three meals a day, luxury gym and spa, education classes and workshps, free medical and dental checks, all the entertainment you could wish for, including free internet, (drugs may incur an additional cost.)”

Mysteryman Mysteryman 12:42 pm 28 May 11

“Bear in mind the “people smugglers” who get caught are not the criminal kingpins, they’re just a couple of blokes per boat with a bare modicum of nautical knowledge willing to take a payment and the following punishment to deliver what are 9 times out of 10 legitimate refugees to our shores.”

Doesn’t matter. It’s currently against the law in this country to do what they’re doing. You break the law, expect to be tried.

I-filed I-filed 12:29 pm 28 May 11

Is this to avoid NT five-year mandatory sentencing on impoverished fisherfolk? If so, yes, please try them here.

MERC600 MERC600 12:28 pm 28 May 11

Well I suspect they will all want to come here. Who would want to go to a state where being slung in prison is seen as some sort of deterrent. I suppose our Human Rights commish would insist on a mosque being built as well.. The call to prayers would realy carry out there on a cold frosty still morning.

Spideydog Spideydog 12:11 pm 28 May 11

I wouldn’t worry folks, this is the ACT. There will be no convictions here and thus no new comers to our hilton jail 😉

The Frots The Frots 11:27 am 28 May 11

johnboy said :

The Frots said :

Just what the ACT Judicial system needs – more workload on an ineffective system.

Each day is becoming a new awakening in incompetency for this ACT Government.

To be fair, this is the federales dumping their problem on us, or spreading the pain from WA and the NT depending how you look at it.

Yep – picked that up after I posted. My bad!

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