Julia trapped by an angry mob at the Tent Embassy?

johnboy 26 January 2012 341

We’re hearing there have been ugly scenes at the tent embassy with the Prime Minister needing to be rescued by police.

If you were there please tell us all about it in the comments or mail pictures through to images@the-riotact.com .

Here’s Nine’s take on it:

julia gillard bundled into a taxi mopo

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341 Responses to Julia trapped by an angry mob at the Tent Embassy?
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poetix poetix 10:11 am 03 Feb 12

Baldy said :

Look at the argument between Jim Jones and Skyring to see how a real conversation plays out.

I don’t know if I’d quite call that a conversation… I’m expecting a challenge to a duel at any moment.

Skyring Skyring 10:03 am 03 Feb 12

Jim Jones said :

Skyring said :

You think it’s honest to portray conditions in remote camps as equivalent to Gungahlin? Really?

As for the rest of it, you may regard Aboriginal Australians as second class citizens regardless of circumstances or position. I don’t share this view.

And just where did I say any of that?

You’re projecting.

Well, OK. Let’s make it explicit. An Aboriginal Australian living in Gungahlin is as disadvantaged as an Aboriginal Australian living in a remote bush camp? YES/NO
Both are disadvantaged compared to non-Aboriginal Australians in exactly the same conditions? YES/NO

    johnboy johnboy 10:06 am 03 Feb 12

    Are you talking the averages or the specifics?

    *Some* indigenous australians are doing much better than *most* non-indigenous Australians.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 9:49 am 03 Feb 12

Skyring said :

Jim Jones said :

Skyring said :

Attempting to portray all Aboriginal folk living in desolate conditions of dirt and disease and booze and violence as being equivalent to living in, say, Gungahlin is pretty low on the scale of intellectual honesty.

And yet you want me to believe that merely having an Aboriginal ancestor is a badge of shame, a mark of disadvantage, a proof that the community should be supplying assistance and resources at a greater rate than for other Australians in exactly the same circumstances.

Apart from these paragraphs – and here I wonder precisely where I stated that being Aboriginal was “a badge of shame, a mark of disadvantage” (methinks there’s more than a tad of projection going on here) – we seem to be in furious agreement.

You think it’s honest to portray conditions in remote camps as equivalent to Gungahlin? Really?

As for the rest of it, you may regard Aboriginal Australians as second class citizens regardless of circumstances or position. I don’t share this view.

And just where did I say any of that?

You’re projecting.

Skyring Skyring 9:36 am 03 Feb 12

Jim Jones said :

Skyring said :

Attempting to portray all Aboriginal folk living in desolate conditions of dirt and disease and booze and violence as being equivalent to living in, say, Gungahlin is pretty low on the scale of intellectual honesty.

And yet you want me to believe that merely having an Aboriginal ancestor is a badge of shame, a mark of disadvantage, a proof that the community should be supplying assistance and resources at a greater rate than for other Australians in exactly the same circumstances.

Apart from these paragraphs – and here I wonder precisely where I stated that being Aboriginal was “a badge of shame, a mark of disadvantage” (methinks there’s more than a tad of projection going on here) – we seem to be in furious agreement.

You think it’s honest to portray conditions in remote camps as equivalent to Gungahlin? Really?

As for the rest of it, you may regard Aboriginal Australians as second class citizens regardless of circumstances or position. I don’t share this view.

Ben_Dover Ben_Dover 9:31 am 03 Feb 12

Skyring said :

Some Australians need and deserve community assistance. People living in remote conditions, drug addicts, the mentally ill and so on. These people aren’t going to be living long and productive lives or raising families with the same prospects for success as other Australians.

I don’t think that having one Aboriginal great grandparent out of eight means that you are automatically behind the eight ball in terms of social and economic prospects. Nor do I think that being of 100% indigenous ancestry all the way back to 1787 also automatically puts you in a situation of disadvantage.

And yet you want me to believe that merely having an Aboriginal ancestor is a badge of shame, a mark of disadvantage, a proof that the community should be supplying assistance and resources at a greater rate than for other Australians in exactly the same circumstances.

Having said all that, and perhaps returning to the original topic, I am grateful to the protestors at the tent embassy for putting the subject of the relationship of Aboriginal Australians to the rest of the nation into the public spotlight. Not just in Canberra, but all over the world. The remote communities that form the focus of the publication you originally referred to are places of national shame and should be improved to the point where living in such a place does not continue the cycle of disadvantage.

And yet, after all the billions spent and the massive bureaucracies devoted to the task and the tens of thousands of government 4WDs purchased to convey white clerks to black camps, we still have these bubbles of despair in our happy land.

Nailed it.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 9:23 am 03 Feb 12

Skyring said :

Attempting to portray all Aboriginal folk living in desolate conditions of dirt and disease and booze and violence as being equivalent to living in, say, Gungahlin is pretty low on the scale of intellectual honesty.

And yet you want me to believe that merely having an Aboriginal ancestor is a badge of shame, a mark of disadvantage, a proof that the community should be supplying assistance and resources at a greater rate than for other Australians in exactly the same circumstances.

Apart from these paragraphs – and here I wonder precisely where I stated that being Aboriginal was “a badge of shame, a mark of disadvantage” (methinks there’s more than a tad of projection going on here) – we seem to be in furious agreement.

Baldy Baldy 9:14 am 03 Feb 12

IrishPete said :

Baldy said :

I’m not getting worked up old chap. Your the one writing in capitals.

And I haven’t said that they can’t call themsleves aborigonal at all. Just they can’t rag on the white man if they are 7/8 white themselves without aknowledging that fact. You are the one that is excluding people from cultural events based solely on their race. You seem to have a balck and white view of racial intergration I must say. If you don’t do this then you can’t do that. Not very inclusive are you.

It seems to me that someone wtill hasn’t gotten ver the fact he’s not in Ireland anymore and can’t leave the old troubles behind.

Some people are clearly beyond education…

You haven’t tried to educate t all. You disa greed with something I said and then stated taht anyone not Irish can’t celebrate an Irish holiday. You made no relevent points to back up any of your arguments, just made statements and expected people to take what you say as the truth, most of which just came across as white guilt. And a lot seemed to stem from your experiences in the old country.

You didn’t listen to any of the arguments that were put forward by me or anyone else, and generally came across as black and white – your right and anyone who disagreed with you was wrong.

Education isn’t really your forte and you shouldn’t make broad statements on other ability to learn from structured arguments.

Look at the argument between Jim Jones and Skyring to see how a real conversation plays out.

Baldy Baldy 9:10 am 03 Feb 12

IrishPete said :

intrigued that no-one has mentioned that the Racial Discrimination Act was suspended to allow the Northern Territory “intervention” to be implemented, and I think it’s still suspended.

See http://www.lawcouncil.asn.au/programs/national-policy/indigenous/nt-emergency/suspension.cfm for a bit of explanation.

IP

As far as I’m aware it still is suspended. This was one of the worse acts to date and shows just how shallow we consider race relations in our country.

Skyring Skyring 4:00 am 03 Feb 12

Jim Jones said :

Here you go, a nice book on the 2006 census and what the numbers actually mean:

http://caepr.anu.edu.au/Publications/mono/2007RM28.php

Thanks. Looking at the abstract, it describes remote Australian locations and the sort of Aboriginal Australians who are indeed disadvantaged and living fairly forlorn lifestyles in comparison with the average Canberran.

I wonder how you consider the average Aboriginal Australian living in the major capital cities along with the bulk of the population as disadvantaged, and if so, how?

Attempting to portray all Aboriginal folk living in desolate conditions of dirt and disease and booze and violence as being equivalent to living in, say, Gungahlin is pretty low on the scale of intellectual honesty.

Some Australians need and deserve community assistance. People living in remote conditions, drug addicts, the mentally ill and so on. These people aren’t going to be living long and productive lives or raising families with the same prospects for success as other Australians.

I don’t think that having one Aboriginal great grandparent out of eight means that you are automatically behind the eight ball in terms of social and economic prospects. Nor do I think that being of 100% indigenous ancestry all the way back to 1787 also automatically puts you in a situation of disadvantage.

And yet you want me to believe that merely having an Aboriginal ancestor is a badge of shame, a mark of disadvantage, a proof that the community should be supplying assistance and resources at a greater rate than for other Australians in exactly the same circumstances.

Having said all that, and perhaps returning to the original topic, I am grateful to the protestors at the tent embassy for putting the subject of the relationship of Aboriginal Australians to the rest of the nation into the public spotlight. Not just in Canberra, but all over the world. The remote communities that form the focus of the publication you originally referred to are places of national shame and should be improved to the point where living in such a place does not continue the cycle of disadvantage.

And yet, after all the billions spent and the massive bureaucracies devoted to the task and the tens of thousands of government 4WDs purchased to convey white clerks to black camps, we still have these bubbles of despair in our happy land.

Skyring Skyring 3:21 am 03 Feb 12

Jim Jones said :

Skyring said :

Jim Jones said :

Any evidence that all these Aboriginal people “didn’t bother identifying as Aboriginal until recently”?

“Over the past 20 years, the census count of Indigenous people has doubled from 227,593 in 1986. This high level of growth is a result of natural increase (the excess of births over deaths) and non-demographic factors such as people identifying their Indigenous origin for the first time in the Census.”
4705.0 – Population Distribution, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians, 2006 , under “Census Counts”.

Here you go, a nice book on the 2006 census and what the numbers actually mean:

http://caepr.anu.edu.au/Publications/mono/2007RM28.php

Nice duck and weave there, Jim.

IrishPete IrishPete 6:24 pm 02 Feb 12

intrigued that no-one has mentioned that the Racial Discrimination Act was suspended to allow the Northern Territory “intervention” to be implemented, and I think it’s still suspended.

See http://www.lawcouncil.asn.au/programs/national-policy/indigenous/nt-emergency/suspension.cfm for a bit of explanation.

IP

IrishPete IrishPete 6:18 pm 02 Feb 12

Baldy said :

Ben_Dover said :

Hardly. I’m interested as to why you consider Aboriginal people to be inferior to everyone else.

Nicely put. If he didn’t find them inferior, he woudln’t be arguing they need special treatment, extra services, money thrown at them, in fact a whole industry dedicated to supporting them in accessing basic services which all other Australians find quite easy to use.

Though that probably says more about him than it does about them.

Though I don’t want to wade into this discussion, I don’t think he finds them inferior just that they have been held back so long they need a booster to catch up with the rest of sociaty, and that there is justification for doing so due to the large amount of past racist policy, such as listing aborigonies as Australian fauna up to the sixties.

Good comment.

signed
Magnanimous Pete

IrishPete IrishPete 6:14 pm 02 Feb 12

Baldy said :

I’m not getting worked up old chap. Your the one writing in capitals.

And I haven’t said that they can’t call themsleves aborigonal at all. Just they can’t rag on the white man if they are 7/8 white themselves without aknowledging that fact. You are the one that is excluding people from cultural events based solely on their race. You seem to have a balck and white view of racial intergration I must say. If you don’t do this then you can’t do that. Not very inclusive are you.

It seems to me that someone wtill hasn’t gotten ver the fact he’s not in Ireland anymore and can’t leave the old troubles behind.

Some people are clearly beyond education…

IrishPete IrishPete 5:58 pm 02 Feb 12

neanderthalsis said :

IrishPete said :

Here’s the text of a letter I’ve sent to the Canberra Times:

General uninformed nonsense…

IP

Why can’t you check what he said? There is footage and transcripts available and it has been widely reported in most media outlets.

At the time the media whipped up a bit of a frenzy by headlining the riots as being driven by Abbott saying the Tent Embassy should be knocked down. What he actually said was: ‘I think a lot’s changed since then, I think it is probably time to move on from that.’ The distortion of this seems to have come from Gillard’s media team, through Sattler and various folk at the Tent Embassy and emerged as a call to bulldoze the place. The media just reported on what emerged from this vitriolic chinese whisper process, being a call to rip the place down. When the real story emerged, it was much more interesting and the media, with a whiff of Gillard’s blood, changed the story so Abbott came out clean.

No matter how hard you try, Abbott is squeaky clean, even his usually foot in mouth syndrome didn’t rear it’s ugly head in this case.

I can’t check what he said because anything broadcast was probably edited. And I can’t find audio or video of what was broadcast (but I admit I haven’t looked very hard). Transcripts (and is there a complete one available?) don’t give you the nuances – the facial expression, the tone of voice. He definitely wasn’t misquoted – he quite possibly was misrepresented, by headlines and editorialising. How many people read beyond a headline these days?

IP

Jim Jones Jim Jones 4:41 pm 02 Feb 12

Skyring said :

Jim Jones said :

Any evidence that all these Aboriginal people “didn’t bother identifying as Aboriginal until recently”?

“Over the past 20 years, the census count of Indigenous people has doubled from 227,593 in 1986. This high level of growth is a result of natural increase (the excess of births over deaths) and non-demographic factors such as people identifying their Indigenous origin for the first time in the Census.”
4705.0 – Population Distribution, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians, 2006 , under “Census Counts”.

Here you go, a nice book on the 2006 census and what the numbers actually mean:

http://caepr.anu.edu.au/Publications/mono/2007RM28.php

Baldy Baldy 4:24 pm 02 Feb 12

NoImRight said :

Baldy said :

As for women being considered whitegoods – is this true or were you just being funny? If it is true I am sooo loking that up on teh internet and sending it around.

It is true. Thats why wedding dresses are white. So the dishwasher matches the other appliances.

ROLF

NoImRight NoImRight 4:12 pm 02 Feb 12

Baldy said :

As for women being considered whitegoods – is this true or were you just being funny? If it is true I am sooo loking that up on teh internet and sending it around.

It is true. Thats why wedding dresses are white. So the dishwasher matches the other appliances.

Skyring Skyring 4:05 pm 02 Feb 12

Baldy said :

As for women being considered whitegoods – is this true or were you just being funny? If it is true I am sooo loking that up on teh internet and sending it around.

There was a Cabinet decision in 1963, after Mrs Menzies chased Robert around the Lodge with a rolling pin and saying that she was fuckin sick of making fuckin scones.

How times change, eh Tim?

Baldy Baldy 4:02 pm 02 Feb 12

Skyring said :

Jim Jones said :

Any evidence that all these Aboriginal people “didn’t bother identifying as Aboriginal until recently”?

“Over the past 20 years, the census count of Indigenous people has doubled from 227,593 in 1986. This high level of growth is a result of natural increase (the excess of births over deaths) and non-demographic factors such as people identifying their Indigenous origin for the first time in the Census.”
4705.0 – Population Distribution, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians, 2006 , under “Census Counts”.

That’s census but if you want to receive any of the Government aid to Indigenous Australians don’t you have to qualify under three criteria, one of which includes you need to be recognised by and Indigenous community? I mean you can say anything on census, doesn’t mean it’s true (re: Jedi as a religion).

Baldy Baldy 3:50 pm 02 Feb 12

Special G said :

Baldy said :

Though I don’t want to wade into this discussion, I don’t think he finds them inferior just that they have been held back so long they need a booster to catch up with the rest of sociaty, and that there is justification for doing so due to the large amount of past racist policy, such as listing aborigonies as Australian fauna up to the sixties.

Weren’t women listed as whitegoods and other household appliances until the 60’s as well.

There have been a whole bunch of policies over the years to attempt to ‘bridge the gap’ and make Indigenous Australians more inclusive, improve health, schooling etc.. It seems to be rail against the govt on one hand whilst the other is held out firmly for a dole check.

I remember some policies to help woman catch up to the men as well. So it isn’t all focused on indigounous Australians.

As for women being considered whitegoods – is this true or were you just being funny? If it is true I am sooo loking that up on teh internet and sending it around.

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