Katy backflips on cycleway along Majura Parkway

BicycleCanberra 21 May 2012 117

Chief Minister Katy Gallagher stated to me last year that the planned Majura Parkway would have a physically separated cycle path next to the road like the M7 in Sydney:

Katy Gallagher said on 19 August:

Hi, as part of the Majura Parkway project a separate cycle path will be constructed off road along the length of the road similar to that of the M7 in Sydney. It will be similar to Copenhagen except it will be on one side of the road but wide enough for two way bike travel. We will continue to discuss as we undertake final planning for the road with the bicycle advisory group. KG

In a letter to pedal Power Katy Gallagher has stated that there is no money for the separated path. Brendan Nerdal from Pedal Power advocacy says:

An off-road path along Majura Parkway is critical because it allows people who are not confident riding on roads to also ride along that transit corridor.

“We need that facility built today. It will be the cheapest time to do it. To retrofit it later, such as the Gungahlin Drive extension, would cost a fortune.”

cartoon

I still don’t understand why ACT doesn’t follow international best practice for cycle infrastructure like other countries:


What's Your Opinion?


Please login to post your comments, or connect with
117 Responses to Katy backflips on cycleway along Majura Parkway
Filter
Order
chewy14 chewy14 12:26 pm 22 May 12

johnboy said :

“we’ve always been fat and stupid and that’s how we intend to stay”

I don’t know about you but I’ve got bigger ambitions for this town than that.

Do you think that there is any realistic scenario where a large proportion of the population, say >10%, will cycle to work in our city?

Hosinator Hosinator 12:22 pm 22 May 12

“Personal anecdotes from freaks who cycle 30km to work aside, you don’t have to believe me when I tell you Canberra is not a place where people will ever want to cycle to work – just go outside and check it out – everybody’s in their car.”

Everybody’s in their car because the Government has done nothing but pander to Canberra’s fat behind by providing cheap and abundant car parking.
Make parking prohibitively expensive and you won’t think twice about buying an electric bicycle that will assist you to cruise at 25km an hour.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 11:44 am 22 May 12

johnboy said :

“we’ve always been fat and stupid and that’s how we intend to stay”

I don’t know about you but I’ve got bigger ambitions for this town than that.

Yeah, but you have to take into account the particular physics at play. No matter where you ride a bike in Canberra, it’s uphill.

HenryBG HenryBG 11:44 am 22 May 12

johnboy said :

“we’ve always been fat and stupid and that’s how we intend to stay”

I don’t know about you but I’ve got bigger ambitions for this town than that.

OK, so next time they bring up the “In Holland, blablabla”, let’s require them to start off with an explanation of how they will make Canberra flat like Holland.

johnboy johnboy 11:38 am 22 May 12

“we’ve always been fat and stupid and that’s how we intend to stay”

I don’t know about you but I’ve got bigger ambitions for this town than that.

HenryBG HenryBG 11:34 am 22 May 12

yellowsnow said :

Dude, I’m now seriously concerned about your health and quality of life more than anything. Sounds like you’re spending your whole life in your lounge room or car, too afraid to venture outside because of all the hills and sweaty cyclists endangering your life out there.

Personal anecdotes from freaks who cycle 30km to work aside, you don’t have to believe me when I tell you Canberra is not a place where people will ever want to cycle to work – just go outside and check it out – everybody’s in their car.

As for the “no hills” comment – you must be insane – Belconnen is basically beyond the Rubicon for any normal person. Woden to Civic is a massive uphill slog. Same for Tuggeranong to Woden.
It’s no good telling me about how fit *you* are and about how you don’t even notice the slope riding North out of Woden – everybody else notices it, and that’s what’s keeping them in their cars.

Holland is *flat*.
Not “easy if you’re a super-fit freak with no life who cycles 300km per week, minimum”.
“Flat” means anybody can get on a bike and get to where they are going. Grandpa can cycle to the shops in Holland. Grandpa *cannot* cycle from Woden to Civic.

chewy14 chewy14 11:33 am 22 May 12

C’mon Postalgeek,
30km round trip nothing? hahaha.
Perhaps for a reasonably fit person but have you seen the majority of the population? When over half the population is overweight, I don’t think they’ll be hopping on their bike to ride to work any time soon.
A 30km bike ride would be a massive effort for them. Particularly in the weather conditions of Canberra where we have freezing Winters and boiling Summers.

There just isn’t the need for a cycleway along this route and it’s a waste of money when no one will be using it.

Build it and no one will come.

KB1971 KB1971 11:03 am 22 May 12

Postalgeek said :

30kms round trip in Canberra is nothing for a seasoned cyclist. Maybe a 30 minute commute each way.

We’re also entering the realm of relativity by declaring there are steep hills in Canberra. Most of Canberra is in a valley. There’re no steep hills for the majority of commuters in Canberra unless you riding from Woden to Fyshwick and have to negotiate Hindmarsh Drive, probably the most cycle-unfriendly stretch of commuter corridor in the ACT, or you live or work on top of Mt Ainslie, Stromlo, Black Mountain, or Red Hill.

If you find a particular rise steep, it’s probably because you are unfit. But then I’m sure there are many unfit people out there who would find a speed bump steep.

It’s not about forcing people to cycle who don’t want to cycle. It’s about encouraging those that do by creating safe and convenient environments, which in turn relieves the roads for those people who prefer to drive.

I never understand why people who prefer to drive are so stupidly hell-bent on keeping everyone else in their cars. It’s as if they want competition for parking, more peak-hour traffic, and delays at the bowser. It’s myopic.

I agree, all you have to do a loop of the Tidbinblla/Cotter Roads to realise that the city commuting paths are not much of a challenge. But that comes with time on the bike.

I dont get the arguments either, the ones arguing for registration & that bikes should not be on the road are arguing against an off road bike path…..go figure.

Hosinator Hosinator 11:00 am 22 May 12

First of all, the rego for bikes ideas are stupid. How often do you call the Police and provide them with the rego number of a car that cut you off in traffic?
Did you call them when the four young males made stupid faces, mooned or swore at you at the traffic lights? Or did you just shake your head and drove the rest of the way to your destination fuming at how you would like a James Bond car so you could blow them off the road.
Needless to say the Police would probably tell you to suck it up princess. They don’t have the resources to deal with stupidity on the roads unless it’s a fatality. The first thing they ask when you lodge a noise complaint, is if you’ve gone over to speak with the rascally neighbour making all that noise.
So no, rego plates on bikes won’t do sh!t.

Secondly, the reason Katy Gallagher may have back flipped is that she is counting on a significant reduction in car drivers using the Majura Parkway once they start implementing the findings and recommendations from their Parking and Transport studies.

The writing is on the wall, sooner or later the ACT Government will have to significantly reduce or stop funding ACTION buses to the tune of $70million a year and start actually earning money on the ACT government owned car parks. I suspect the significant increases in car rego costs over the last few years are aimed at dissuading certain sectors of the community from owning cars.

All the signs are pointing to them increasing the number of users on public transport, the secondary impact of a reduction in car numbers is…wait for it…less cars on the road so that using the on road cycle lanes is now safer…taa dah!!!

Postalgeek Postalgeek 10:27 am 22 May 12

30kms round trip in Canberra is nothing for a seasoned cyclist. Maybe a 30 minute commute each way.

We’re also entering the realm of relativity by declaring there are steep hills in Canberra. Most of Canberra is in a valley. There’re no steep hills for the majority of commuters in Canberra unless you riding from Woden to Fyshwick and have to negotiate Hindmarsh Drive, probably the most cycle-unfriendly stretch of commuter corridor in the ACT, or you live or work on top of Mt Ainslie, Stromlo, Black Mountain, or Red Hill.

If you find a particular rise steep, it’s probably because you are unfit. But then I’m sure there are many unfit people out there who would find a speed bump steep.

It’s not about forcing people to cycle who don’t want to cycle. It’s about encouraging those that do by creating safe and convenient environments, which in turn relieves the roads for those people who prefer to drive.

I never understand why people who prefer to drive are so stupidly hell-bent on keeping everyone else in their cars. It’s as if they want competition for parking, more peak-hour traffic, and delays at the bowser. It’s myopic.

chewy14 chewy14 8:56 am 22 May 12

Honestly,
take a look at the route for this road and ask yourself how many cyclists would be likely to use it every day?
As far as I can see the major potential cycling users would be people travelling from Gungahlin to the Airport/Fyshwick area for work.

Even the shortest route from the edge of Gungahlin to the edge of the Airport is over 10km so 20km round trip at the least, but probably more likely to be 30km+ round trip for the majority of users.

The Airport/Fyshwick area has approximately 25 000 employees working there. Using the conservative 2.5% figure shown before and assuming everyone that works there lives in Gungahlin (which is wrong) there would be 625 potential cyclists on this route.

The real figure would be much, much lower.

Sounds like a fantastic use of taxpayer money.

BicycleCanberra BicycleCanberra 12:08 am 22 May 12

drfelonious said :

I’m a cyclist. I don’t think Majura Parkway is a high priority (or frankly, even a medium priority) for cycling infrastructure expenditure. Let’s get the main commuting pathways to/from the major centres right first.

Simple way to tell what needs more funding – where do cyclists die/get maimed/seriously injured most often?

I think Pedal Power need to ask themselves this question, get the data and adjust their advocacy efforts accordingly.

Its not about the priority, but what was promised by the Chief Minister at the time of the announcement. You should be able to provide the separation without increasing the cost.
In Europe you are not allowed to ride in the shoulders on Major highways,in fact you would be fined for doing so. So why do we allow it here? when you could provide that extra bit of safety at little overall expense.
Maybe you could use the existing Majura Road as the cycleway/access road once the Parkway in Built.

yellowsnow yellowsnow 11:43 pm 21 May 12

HenryBG said :

a) define “significant proportion”

b) I’m taking bets on the proportion of Canberrans willing to do 2 hours of strenuous exercise every workday.

You are living in a dreamworld if you think this is going to change. People are getting *lazier* year on year, and only complete freaks these days are willing to engage in the level of exercise and danger required to commute to work by bicycle. It’s just a sad fact.

Dude, I’m now seriously concerned about your health and quality of life more than anything. Sounds like you’re spending your whole life in your lounge room or car, too afraid to venture outside because of all the hills and sweaty cyclists endangering your life out there.

btw – I checked and according to ABS census data around 2.5% of Canberrans traveled to work by bike in on census day 2006 – the highest percentage out of any Australian capital city, but still i probably would not call that ‘significant’ so you might be right on that. (presumably the figure would be a bit higher in spring and summer though)

see http://www.cycle-helmets.com/travel-to-work-1976-2006.pdf and http://profile.id.com.au/Default.aspx?id=400&pg=117&gid=200&type=enum

Incidentally (and off topic) the thing that shocked me going through the ‘modes of travel to work’ data is the pronounced decline in public transport decline between the early 1990s and now – a 30% decrease. Canberra and Hobart are the only cities that have gone backwards, everywhere else patronage has increased. Whatever ACTION buses have been doing in the last 20 years isn’t working – time to go back to the drawing board

thatsnotme thatsnotme 10:55 pm 21 May 12

puggy said :

Just to add the numbers, the 2011 cordon count into the city counted around 2100 bicycles in 90 minutes. That’s not too bad, but I don’t know how that compares to vehicle counts in the same time frame.

A distance of 10-12km is not 2 hours worth of exercise. Besides, how many people go 15 minutes out of their way to get to a gym, to do a 1 hour cycle class (which is way, way more strenuous than commuting), and then take another 15 minutes to get home (or the reverse if it’s in the morning)?

Most start points for a 10-12km journey and a city destination, aside from Belconnen, basically result in a flat route. Anywhere in Gungahlin, Woden, Weston Creek, and the Inner North is a flat trip. Also, my trip in from Gungahlin is often faster than the car journey (but that probably says more about Gungahlin roads).

I ride off road cycle paths all the way, there is little danger, aside from hemeltless, fixie riding, uni student, hipster, bicycle ninjas in the dark evenings.

I’ve been riding to work for only a couple of months now. It’s about 14.5km each way from Macgregor, and I try to make half of my weekly commute by bike. I drive one day, because I’ve got to drop my son off to his nana’s for the day, and bus the other days. In that time, I’ve knocked 15-20 minutes off the time it takes me to do the trip, depending on what lights I have to stop at. My best effort’s about 35 minutes total time to get into work. Generally, if I leave home around the same time I’d need to leave to walk to the bus stop, I beat the bus in. I’m sure as hell no athlete either – there would be plenty of opportunities for me to improve that time.

As a father of two under 3yo, there’s not a heap of time for exercise before or after work. Hopping on the bike, and getting that exercise (after the purchase price of the bike, for free) while I’m going to work is perfect – and I’m more alert and energised while at work too. Win win.

I’d much prefer that Pedal Power focused on getting the mess that is the existing bike network fixed up, before worrying about bike highways to be honest. My ride into work is a mess of on-road cycle paths that start, then stop mid-road, before starting again, before stopping again, and so on. There are sections of road I refuse to ride on, as there’s no on-road path, and the road is just too dangerous to ride on. So I’m pushed off onto a narrow, crumbling and broken footpath. I can only dream of a bike highway…

puggy puggy 9:44 pm 21 May 12

HenryBG said :

a) define “significant proportion”

b) I’m taking bets on the proportion of Canberrans willing to do 2 hours of strenuous exercise every workday.

c) I’m also taking bets on how many Canberrans would call 1% a “significant proportion”.

Commuting by bicycle in Holland is easy: it’s flat and nobody goes much further than 4km. So lots of people do it.

In Canberra, it’s not at all flat, it’s not easy, and the distances are triple. And very, very few Canberrans do it.

Just to add the numbers, the 2011 cordon count into the city counted around 2100 bicycles in 90 minutes. That’s not too bad, but I don’t know how that compares to vehicle counts in the same time frame.

A distance of 10-12km is not 2 hours worth of exercise. Besides, how many people go 15 minutes out of their way to get to a gym, to do a 1 hour cycle class (which is way, way more strenuous than commuting), and then take another 15 minutes to get home (or the reverse if it’s in the morning)?

Most start points for a 10-12km journey and a city destination, aside from Belconnen, basically result in a flat route. Anywhere in Gungahlin, Woden, Weston Creek, and the Inner North is a flat trip. Also, my trip in from Gungahlin is often faster than the car journey (but that probably says more about Gungahlin roads).

I ride off road cycle paths all the way, there is little danger, aside from hemeltless, fixie riding, uni student, hipster, bicycle ninjas in the dark evenings.

drfelonious drfelonious 9:25 pm 21 May 12

I’m a cyclist. I don’t think Majura Parkway is a high priority (or frankly, even a medium priority) for cycling infrastructure expenditure. Let’s get the main commuting pathways to/from the major centres right first.

Simple way to tell what needs more funding – where do cyclists die/get maimed/seriously injured most often?

I think Pedal Power need to ask themselves this question, get the data and adjust their advocacy efforts accordingly.

KB1971 KB1971 9:19 pm 21 May 12

HenryBG said :

The reason the vast majority of Canberrans do not and will never cycle to work is that their average commute
a) is about 3 times longer than the average commute in Holland
b) incorporates steep hills

The average Canberra commute, if done on a bicycle, would involve a similar amount of effort to a day’s work – not many people have so little life that they are willing to waste 30% of it just commuting to work, risking heart attacks, repelling work colleagues because of their stink, and having to fork out vastly increased costs on groceries to up their calorie intake to cover all this pointless and endangering effort.

For a bloke who seems to have a lot of confidence & go about him, that comment makes you seem pretty soft.

Its not that hard to ride to work, work all day & then ride home again. Mine is 60km round trip when I do both ways. 30 is a doddle for me now & trust me, Canberra has no steep hills on any of the commuting routes.

Deckard Deckard 9:15 pm 21 May 12

HenryBG said :

You are living in a dreamworld if you think this is going to change. People are getting *lazier* year on year, and only complete freaks these days are willing to engage in the level of exercise and danger required to commute to work by bicycle. It’s just a sad fact.

I’d say this argument is more legit than the rego brigade argument. I also think your average Canberran doesn’t want to get out of their warm car on a -6 frosty morning at 7am either.

HenryBG HenryBG 8:45 pm 21 May 12

yellowsnow said :

The average Canberran lives 10-12km from Civic. So let’s assume the average Canberran lives this distance from work (obviously not everyone works in Civic so this is not going to be accurate) – this translates to between 30 mins commute (fit person on road bike) to 50mins (unfit person on mountain bike), perhaps 1 hour absolute max for someone totally unfit or riding on bike paths with lots of road crossings and other obstacles.

Whether the average person would be willing to expend this kind of energy every day, twice a day, is another question – but a significant proportion of Canberrans do.

a) define “significant proportion”

b) I’m taking bets on the proportion of Canberrans willing to do 2 hours of strenuous exercise every workday.

c) I’m also taking bets on how many Canberrans would call 1% a “significant proportion”.

Commuting by bicycle in Holland is easy: it’s flat and nobody goes much further than 4km. So lots of people do it.

In Canberra, it’s not at all flat, it’s not easy, and the distances are triple. And very, very few Canberrans do it.

You are living in a dreamworld if you think this is going to change. People are getting *lazier* year on year, and only complete freaks these days are willing to engage in the level of exercise and danger required to commute to work by bicycle. It’s just a sad fact.

Deckard Deckard 8:36 pm 21 May 12

dvaey said :

No doubt as a cyclist who rides everyday, you’d also like to see others learn the rules, which would then reflect well on all cyclists. If the schools can fund road-ready courses for all students, surely it shouldnt be too hard to fund a cycle safety course/licence.

I didn’t want to get involved but your stupidity brought me to do it. I dare say every cyclist, that is of driving age, would have a drivers licence already.

We’ve heard the rest of your bullsh*t registration argument before, you’ve heard the response to it many times before.

A legit post about a cycle path funded by the taxpayers of the act, of which cyclists are many, always get’s hijacked by you and your ‘my rego pays for the road’ brigade. Rego for bikes will never happen. The government wants people to ride bikes. They don’t want to discourage it by wrapping it up in more red tape and government control. Suck it up and get over it!

CBR Tweets

Sign up to our newsletter

Top

Search across the site