Katy backflips on cycleway along Majura Parkway

BicycleCanberra 21 May 2012 117

Chief Minister Katy Gallagher stated to me last year that the planned Majura Parkway would have a physically separated cycle path next to the road like the M7 in Sydney:

Katy Gallagher said on 19 August:

Hi, as part of the Majura Parkway project a separate cycle path will be constructed off road along the length of the road similar to that of the M7 in Sydney. It will be similar to Copenhagen except it will be on one side of the road but wide enough for two way bike travel. We will continue to discuss as we undertake final planning for the road with the bicycle advisory group. KG

In a letter to pedal Power Katy Gallagher has stated that there is no money for the separated path. Brendan Nerdal from Pedal Power advocacy says:

An off-road path along Majura Parkway is critical because it allows people who are not confident riding on roads to also ride along that transit corridor.

“We need that facility built today. It will be the cheapest time to do it. To retrofit it later, such as the Gungahlin Drive extension, would cost a fortune.”

cartoon

I still don’t understand why ACT doesn’t follow international best practice for cycle infrastructure like other countries:


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117 Responses to Katy backflips on cycleway along Majura Parkway
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Postalgeek Postalgeek 9:29 pm 22 May 12

HenryBG said :

KB1971 said :

HenryBG said :

puggy said :

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

Bahahahahahahaa, I chellenge you to come & do the Fitzs Challenge with me this year Henry.

http://www.fitzs.com.au/

2.3km of climing in 160km……….Even that is soft compared to the tour coming up later in the year.

Sounds absdolutely hideous. Why would anyone do that when there are so many better things to do with your time.

Like posting on RiotAct? You’re still leading the board, Henry BG 😉

KB1971 KB1971 9:17 pm 22 May 12

thatsnotme said :

How about we make a deal – your taxes don’t have to go towards cycling infrastructure, but my taxes don’t have to go towards keeping your sedentary arse alive.

Yes, I imagine a cycle path along Majura Rd would be chaeper than the treatment for diseases related for smoking in a year or two………

fun size fun size 8:16 pm 22 May 12

HenryBG, have you ever actually ridden a bike from Woden to Civic?

thatsnotme thatsnotme 8:01 pm 22 May 12

HenryBG said :

Sounds absdolutely hideous. Why would anyone do that when there are so many better things to do with your time.

Actually, I’ve figured out what all this bicycle-rubbish is all about: like vegetarians, who delude themselves that their peculiar and IQ-affecting diet is some sort of virtue, cycling fanatics think that making yourself sweaty, stinking out the office and the home and shortening your life is also some sort of virtue. It isn’t. It’s just a peculiar hobby. I wish you all the best with it, but I do not want to see my taxes wasted on supporting it.

Ahh Henry, there you go again with your assertions that exercise somehow manages to shorten your life span. Please don’t tell me that, like my dearly departed grandmother, you’re worried that by being outside on a cold morning I’ll catch a deathly chill?

How about we make a deal – your taxes don’t have to go towards cycling infrastructure, but my taxes don’t have to go towards keeping your sedentary arse alive.

yellowsnow yellowsnow 7:42 pm 22 May 12

HenryBG said :

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

LOL, so why don’t you just move to Holland since you obviously love the place so much?

You have a point that for residents of Holland (much of urban Europe actually) Canberra roads would seem quite hilly – most major cities in northern and western europe are dead flat. But that’s a pretty lame excuse for Canberra’s obsession with the car.

At the end of the day it’s not the hills keeping most people in the cars – it’s the car-centric culture, the spread-out nature of our suburbs, and woeful public transport. All of which can be changed over time through policy and planning

HenryBG HenryBG 7:36 pm 22 May 12

KB1971 said :

HenryBG said :

puggy said :

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

Bahahahahahahaa, I chellenge you to come & do the Fitzs Challenge with me this year Henry.

http://www.fitzs.com.au/

2.3km of climing in 160km……….Even that is soft compared to the tour coming up later in the year.

Sounds absdolutely hideous. Why would anyone do that when there are so many better things to do with your time.

Actually, I’ve figured out what all this bicycle-rubbish is all about: like vegetarians, who delude themselves that their peculiar and IQ-affecting diet is some sort of virtue, cycling fanatics think that making yourself sweaty, stinking out the office and the home and shortening your life is also some sort of virtue. It isn’t. It’s just a peculiar hobby. I wish you all the best with it, but I do not want to see my taxes wasted on supporting it.

puggy puggy 7:34 pm 22 May 12

HenryBG said :

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

OK, OK, “Holland” is flat. It’s the flattest place on Earth. That doesn’t make Woden to Civic a “massive uphill slog”. Sure it’s tough to start out, but you get conditioned to it very quickly, to the point where you need to push harder and harder to get any real exercise from it.

poetix poetix 7:29 pm 22 May 12

HenryBG said :

You must be on drugs. It is nothing like flat.
In Holland, it’s flat. Check out the difference some time. Most Canberrans seem to be aware of how uncondusive Canberra’s elevations are to comfortable riding, which is why hardly any of them would even consider commuting to work.

This got me thinking. Perhaps Holland is in fact Peru, and it’s the drugs that make them believe it’s flat. In fact it’s terribly terribly hilly with condors catching the orange updrafts. And yes, this is my third post on a bike thread. What a sudden burst of alycraty.

‘Seriously though’, I find that even little rides really help with fitness. It’s not all or nothing.

KB1971 KB1971 6:55 pm 22 May 12

HenryBG said :

puggy said :

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

Bahahahahahahaa, I chellenge you to come & do the Fitzs Challenge with me this year Henry.

http://www.fitzs.com.au/

2.3km of climing in 160km……….Even that is soft compared to the tour coming up later in the year.

BicycleCanberra BicycleCanberra 5:22 pm 22 May 12

HenryBG said :

puggy said :

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

There are many high school children in Holland that do these distances everyday.. Great care is taken in Holland while being fairly flat as you say,though watch out for the high winds, that gradients are never too steep for cyclists particularly on man made structures like bridges and underpasses. They are also good at combing multi-mode travel like bike n bus and bike n train.
So for Canberra ,nobody expects everyone to ride all the way, though many do, but you may like to try the bike and ride option here.

carnardly carnardly 4:27 pm 22 May 12

a hard slog from woden to the city? i think the steepest bit is the bit from the bike path near the Katie Bender memorial and up onto the bridge.

croikey….

HenryBG HenryBG 4:19 pm 22 May 12

puggy said :

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

HenryBG HenryBG 4:15 pm 22 May 12

Brandi said :

puggy said :

HenryBG said :

Woden to Civic is a massive uphill slog.

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

HenryBG said :

Same for Tuggeranong to Woden.

There is a distinct “uphill” stretch, but at 2.5% grade most of the way, it’s not worth commenting on. Are you riding these stretches on a BMX?

Bravo and agreed. Woden to Civic is as flat as can be. So is Watson to Civic, or Gunghalin for that matter. Inner North or South to Airport? Flat. No excuses not to ride to work, and hundreds of people do every day from Gunners to Airport.
They deserve a safer means of travel than the shoulderless, high-speed Majura Drive. The only pseudo-efficient alternatives at present are to ride down the meatgrinder of Northbourne or worse, Limestone Ave, to get to the (currently flood-muntered) LBG path.
While there are certainly other spending priorities for cycling infrastructure in Canberra, it is disappointing to see another worthy project dropped.

You must be on drugs. It is nothing like flat.
In Holland, it’s flat. Check out the difference some time. Most Canberrans seem to be aware of how uncondusive Canberra’s elevations are to comfortable riding, which is why hardly any of them would even consider commuting to work.

Brandi Brandi 4:02 pm 22 May 12

puggy said :

HenryBG said :

Woden to Civic is a massive uphill slog.

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

HenryBG said :

Same for Tuggeranong to Woden.

There is a distinct “uphill” stretch, but at 2.5% grade most of the way, it’s not worth commenting on. Are you riding these stretches on a BMX?

Bravo and agreed. Woden to Civic is as flat as can be. So is Watson to Civic, or Gunghalin for that matter. Inner North or South to Airport? Flat. No excuses not to ride to work, and hundreds of people do every day from Gunners to Airport.
They deserve a safer means of travel than the shoulderless, high-speed Majura Drive. The only pseudo-efficient alternatives at present are to ride down the meatgrinder of Northbourne or worse, Limestone Ave, to get to the (currently flood-muntered) LBG path.
While there are certainly other spending priorities for cycling infrastructure in Canberra, it is disappointing to see another worthy project dropped.

poetix poetix 3:11 pm 22 May 12

Postalgeek said :

poetix said :

Having separated bike lanes would be great. I just rode to Braddon from O’Connor (Postalgeek will snigger, but this is actually an expansion of my bike-scuttles) and it took too long as (a) I’m slow and (b) I have to ride on the pavement as I’m too scared to ride on Northbourne Avenue. I was pleased to see quite a few other pavement wimps too, including a man who was told to stop by the police and put his helmet on, which almost caused me to crash into him in the middle of the pavement (at about 6km an hour). That would have been ironic.

Usually I use bikepaths as I’m rarely in a hurry anyway.

I will only ever snigger with you, poetix

Like I said, cycling is not for everyone and I believe paths should be available to electric-assisted bicycles and other lightweight personal electric vehicles as well.

If your journey was too long, then that’s a journey you might not do on a bicycle, BUT if you had access to a separated cycle way down the central median of Northbourne you might’ve found it quicker, safer, and more enjoyable.

Yes, I’m sure. Apart from anything else the pavements are narrow and rough. (Though I would like to point out defensively I’m not quite in the category that needs lectrix. Somewhere between Tour de France and total slob, with a definite wobble towards the latter. And I did enjoy the police nearly causing an accident. Things you don’t see if you go really fast.)

Postalgeek Postalgeek 2:57 pm 22 May 12

poetix said :

Having separated bike lanes would be great. I just rode to Braddon from O’Connor (Postalgeek will snigger, but this is actually an expansion of my bike-scuttles) and it took too long as (a) I’m slow and (b) I have to ride on the pavement as I’m too scared to ride on Northbourne Avenue. I was pleased to see quite a few other pavement wimps too, including a man who was told to stop by the police and put his helmet on, which almost caused me to crash into him in the middle of the pavement (at about 6km an hour). That would have been ironic.

Usually I use bikepaths as I’m rarely in a hurry anyway.

I will only ever snigger with you, poetix

Like I said, cycling is not for everyone and I believe paths should be available to electric-assisted bicycles and other lightweight personal electric vehicles as well.

If your journey was too long, then that’s a journey you might not do on a bicycle, BUT if you had access to a separated cycle way down the central median of Northbourne you might’ve found it quicker, safer, and more enjoyable.

puggy puggy 1:35 pm 22 May 12

HenryBG said :

Woden to Civic is a massive uphill slog.

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

HenryBG said :

Same for Tuggeranong to Woden.

There is a distinct “uphill” stretch, but at 2.5% grade most of the way, it’s not worth commenting on. Are you riding these stretches on a BMX?

poetix poetix 1:00 pm 22 May 12

Having separated bike lanes would be great. I just rode to Braddon from O’Connor (Postalgeek will snigger, but this is actually an expansion of my bike-scuttles) and it took too long as (a) I’m slow and (b) I have to ride on the pavement as I’m too scared to ride on Northbourne Avenue. I was pleased to see quite a few other pavement wimps too, including a man who was told to stop by the police and put his helmet on, which almost caused me to crash into him in the middle of the pavement (at about 6km an hour). That would have been ironic.

Usually I use bikepaths as I’m rarely in a hurry anyway.

KB1971 KB1971 12:57 pm 22 May 12

HenryBG said :

.

Holland is *flat*.
Not “easy if you’re a super-fit freak with no life who cycles 300km per week, minimum”.
“Flat” means anybody can get on a bike and get to where they are going. Grandpa can cycle to the shops in Holland. Grandpa *cannot* cycle from Woden to Civic.

Ahh, this is where you are wrong, the guy I had an accident with on my motorcycle was 80 & he was riding from Curtin to Civic to go to the gym & then ride home again.

I regularly ride past people who are 50-60-70 odd & many are not just pootling along. Just yesterday there was a guy and his wife riding road bikes around LBG while I was on my way to work. They were cruising along at 25km/h & both well over 60.

For the naysayers who say the paths are under utilised, today I drove & parked in the parliamentary triangle and rode acorss the lake, there was a lady getting ready to to ride the lake, about 6 commuters passed me along with a group of about 10 social riders. All in the space of the two minutes it took to take my bike off the rack, put my helmet on & rode. Then there was the 1/2 dozen on the bridge at the same time I was on there & it was cold this morning.

So the old chestnut of “its too hilly, cold, hot, wet, uncomfortable blah, blah, blah” are really just excuses to not get out & ride (or do any exercise for that matter).

We have three kids & I still manage to commute up to 4 times a week, I just kill two birds with one stone by including it in my commute. I started out with the 30km, my initial thoughts were to ride to Woden & take the bus the rest of the way but then I thought bugger it I will do the distance no matter how long it takes me. The first time was 1:45 minutes & bugger me dead it hurt. Now I can do it in 57 minutes, quicker than the bus.

It just takes a bit of heart & lateral thinking to organise yourself.

Postalgeek Postalgeek 12:32 pm 22 May 12

chewy14 said :

C’mon Postalgeek,
30km round trip nothing? hahaha.
Perhaps for a reasonably fit person but have you seen the majority of the population? When over half the population is overweight, I don’t think they’ll be hopping on their bike to ride to work any time soon.
A 30km bike ride would be a massive effort for them. Particularly in the weather conditions of Canberra where we have freezing Winters and boiling Summers.

There just isn’t the need for a cycleway along this route and it’s a waste of money when no one will be using it.

Build it and no one will come.

As I said, you don’t have to get the whole population onto bicycles. I don’t think anyone is asking that everyone be forced to cycle.

But a lot of people don’t cycle because they have to mix it up with cars. Dedicated cycle paths that also allowed conditional access for electric-assisted cycles/scooters/ even segways (eeesh) would be a lot more attractive.

If you want to talk about a waste of money, a waste of money is pouring copious amounts of it into a health care systems burdened by avoidable obesity-related illness. Add to that the waste of money in building a carpark for, say, 2000 cars when you could encourage 2000 people to cycle to work. How much does a single car-spot cost to build and occupy?

However, I’m not going to go to the wall arguing for a separated path for Majura as a priority. If it were a case of not building a Majura path because money needed to be diverted to a busier cycle route I’d certainly agree with that. Nevertheless, Gunghalin is growing, Fyshwick and the airport are major commuting destinations, and if you’re going to build a road, it will be a lot cheaper to install a path during construction rather than after construction. And more responsible than just requiring cars and cycles to mix it up at high speeds.

If people don’t want cyclists on roads, fine. I, like many, many cyclists, don’t particularly enjoy riding on busy roads. But cyclists aren’t going to just disappear, and by objecting to alternative infrastructure you simply perpetuate the vicious circle of car congestion, and, in many cases, the grossly inefficient expenditure in resources in facilitating and moving 1.5 tons in order to move an 80kg person.

The one plus side is that more people will get exercise by having to walk further from their carspot to their destination.

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