10 September 2013

Keep left on Gininderra Drive

| JC
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On Gininderra Drive there are keep left unless over taking signs west bound going up the hill just before the intersection with Gungahlin Drive and east bound just past the intersection with Kingsford Smith Drive.

Under the road rules keep left unless overtaking applies on roads with a speed limit greater than 80km/h or where signs as described above are seen. In relation to the signs the road rules say that it applies:

Rule 130

(3) A keep left unless overtaking sign on a multi-lane road applies to the length of road beginning at the sign and ending at the nearest of the following:
(a) an end keep left unless overtaking sign on the road;
(b) a traffic sign or road marking on the road that indicates that the road is no longer a multi-lane road;
(c) if the road ends at a T–intersection or dead end — the end of the road.

So the way I read that keep left applies more or less between Kingsford Smith Drive and Moat Street. Now of course no one every obeys this rule, but I find it odd that the whole stretch is considered under the rules to be a keep left unless overtaking road zone, but it only has signs at each end. How are those that enter from the numerous sides roads meant to know.

ACT government should either remove the signs, or put up repeater signs after each intersection and of course enforce the rule is the latter was done.

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Woody Mann-Caruso11:04 am 16 Sep 13

Actually, sounds like little Woody, with his control issues, and his speed-envy issues, is in a very unhappy place. Why doesn’t little Woody learn to play nice with all the other Canberra cretins?

It’s been ages since I’ve had a stalker. Welcome! Please, continue to hover around me and rage. It’s just energising as when you sit up my arse in the right lane and I click the cruise control down a couple of k’s…then a couple more…

thebrownstreak699:06 am 16 Sep 13

If the crazy lady in the blue commodore with black and white NSW number plates is reading this, the Monaro Highway is not your racetrack. Calm the hell down. In your quest to get ahead, you damn near ran me off the road this morning!

JC said :

RadioVK said :

FWIW, I don’t care if you do or don’t keep left, and as others have pointed out, you’re well within your rights to stay in the right hand lane. I was taught to keep left when I learned how to drive, for the reasons I’ve already given. I think that they’re good reasons, whether you agree or not is up to you.

I was taught the same reasons too, basically common sense and courtesy. Something many these days lack, as everything is about them and screw anyone else.

Well, I’m certainly glad I’m not the only one who was taught about common sense and courtesy on the road.

It takes more that knowing how to operate the equipment, and knowing the rules, to make a good driver…

Hang on, I’m lost. There’s a nurse somewhere late for a shift too, so if you can help her, that would be nice.
The way I read it here, if there isn’t a specific law against an action, go your hardest.
That’s going to make shopping easy then, ’cause I can push my way to the front.
Kids want a go on the swing? Just cut in, and stuff the rest.
“Actually, I DO need all this seat on the bus.”
“No, it’s last night’s curry. someone else asked if I needed to see a doctor.”

Wow. Lord of the Flies by the Lake.

wildturkeycanoe9:04 pm 13 Sep 13

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment. You decide that you are not going to move into the left hand lane to let them past because, after all, you’re doing the speed limit, and nobody has any right to go any faster than you, do they?

The vehicle in front of you just happens to be driven by the only doctor who can save your friend. The doctor is driving to the hospital to start her shift. She doesn’t want to be delayed – for example, by the police – so she’s carefully following the speed limit. You decide that you are going to tailgate her because, after all, you’re entitled, and nobody has any right to go any slower than you, do they? Distracted, she moves into the left lane, into the path of another vehicle. She crashes and dies, and a few hours later, so does your friend.

Next week – why arguing about the real world using imaginary, ludicrously-marginal scenarios is f*cking useless unless you’re as smart as Geoffrey Robertson.

If everyone in this scenario drove at 25km/h all would be well. That’s also where everyone would end up to give their horses a drink.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

So are you in a less-than-happy place? Well, that’s because you made CHOICES.
Am I, the tailgater, in a less-than-happy place? Well, that’s because it’s YOUR FAULT.

Actually, sounds like little Woody, with his control issues, and his speed-envy issues, is in a very unhappy place.

Why doesn’t little Woody learn to play nice with all the other Canberra cretins?

thebrownstreak693:56 pm 13 Sep 13

Jim Jones said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

To reiterate, it’s perfectly legal to drive in the right lane when not overtaking or turning, but keeping left makes for a simpler and less risky situation. We all know others do silly things on the road, I’m interested in being out of the way and minimising risk to myself and others.

To put the practicalities aside (lets face it, IIRC the decision to be in the left or right hand lane depends on any number of variables at any one time) and play devil’s advocate: Do you think that enabling a culture of speeding is really the best long-term strategy to minimise risk to yourself and others?

No, and I’m not advocating that we do. I advocating driving in a courteous and sensible manner, and reducing risk where we can.

Driving in the right hand lane should never be viewed as ‘stopping others from speeding’. That’s not the job of the regular motorist. If you see someone speeding and that concerns you I suggest referring the matter to the police. If I’m driving along at or below the speed limit and someone wants to fly past I’d rather let them go because this reduces the possibility of me being involved in an incident or accident with them.

Given the amount of speeding I see in Canberra, the large and obvious signposting of fixed speed cameras and general lack of police on the roads, I’d say that current speed management is more of a token effort than genuine attempt to make the roads a safer place to be.

thebrownstreak69 said :

To reiterate, it’s perfectly legal to drive in the right lane when not overtaking or turning, but keeping left makes for a simpler and less risky situation. We all know others do silly things on the road, I’m interested in being out of the way and minimising risk to myself and others.

To put the practicalities aside (lets face it, IIRC the decision to be in the left or right hand lane depends on any number of variables at any one time) and play devil’s advocate: Do you think that enabling a culture of speeding is really the best long-term strategy to minimise risk to yourself and others?

thebrownstreak693:02 pm 13 Sep 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

And again, I never said I am trying to police peeps, although it is lol at the thought of cretins reading this and raging about people blocking their fast lane.

If you’re taking smug pleasure at slowing others down, which this quote seems to indicate, then being the police is exactly what you are trying to do.

If you want to drive along in the right hand lane there’s nothing stopping you. And you can rest easily in the knowledge that when you’re tailgated, people speed past on the left and people won’t let you merge left easily that you are in no way at fault (although this usually won’t happen if you just show a bit courtesy and stay left). It’s just the way things are.

You misunderstand. I never purposely slow anybody down unless the tailgate. This is due to safety not to police them.
My comment was about me defending using the right hand lane and peeps raging at that.

I use whatever lane I need to turn to or middle lane for safety if I’m not turning.

I don’t think I do misunderstand. I know you don’t slow down purposely.

I also know that what you’re doing is perfectly legal.

The point, which I and others have been trying to make all along, is that driving in the left lane by default (unless congested, overtaking or turning) reduces stress and hassle. This is why it’s called courtesy, because it makes things easier for everyone.

You’ve stated clearly that you believe that if you’re doing the speed limit in the right lane then you’re obeying the law. And you are, great.

You’ve also asked, “Why do you think it is courteous to stay on the left lane?”, and I’ve answered.

To reiterate, it’s perfectly legal to drive in the right lane when not overtaking or turning, but keeping left makes for a simpler and less risky situation. We all know others do silly things on the road, I’m interested in being out of the way and minimising risk to myself and others.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd2:34 pm 13 Sep 13

thebrownstreak69 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

And again, I never said I am trying to police peeps, although it is lol at the thought of cretins reading this and raging about people blocking their fast lane.

If you’re taking smug pleasure at slowing others down, which this quote seems to indicate, then being the police is exactly what you are trying to do.

If you want to drive along in the right hand lane there’s nothing stopping you. And you can rest easily in the knowledge that when you’re tailgated, people speed past on the left and people won’t let you merge left easily that you are in no way at fault (although this usually won’t happen if you just show a bit courtesy and stay left). It’s just the way things are.

You misunderstand. I never purposely slow anybody down unless the tailgate. This is due to safety not to police them.
My comment was about me defending using the right hand lane and peeps raging at that.

I use whatever lane I need to turn to or middle lane for safety if I’m not turning.

thebrownstreak692:28 pm 13 Sep 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

And again, I never said I am trying to police peeps, although it is lol at the thought of cretins reading this and raging about people blocking their fast lane.

If you’re taking smug pleasure at slowing others down, which this quote seems to indicate, then being the police is exactly what you are trying to do.

If you want to drive along in the right hand lane there’s nothing stopping you. And you can rest easily in the knowledge that when you’re tailgated, people speed past on the left and people won’t let you merge left easily that you are in no way at fault (although this usually won’t happen if you just show a bit courtesy and stay left). It’s just the way things are.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd2:06 pm 13 Sep 13

thebrownstreak69 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

JC said :

RadioVK said :

FWIW, I don’t care if you do or don’t keep left, and as others have pointed out, you’re well within your rights to stay in the right hand lane. I was taught to keep left when I learned how to drive, for the reasons I’ve already given. I think that they’re good reasons, whether you agree or not is up to you.

I was taught the same reasons too, basically common sense and courtesy. Something many these days lack, as everything is about them and screw anyone else.

Why do you think it is courteous to stay on the left lane?

So when traffic traveling at higher speeds passes it always does so on the right, rather than having faster traffic weave through slower traffic, which is more dangerous (and stressful for some).

The reality is that some traffic does indeed travel above the speed limit on occasion, and the best thing to do is simply let them go. Yes, it’s illegal, but we live in an imperfect world. It’s not up to us to slow other people down because we’re getting upset that they’re getting some perceived unfair advantage.

Keeping left is something that was taught for decades to new drivers, and it generally works well. Obviously when roads are congested or under unusual circumstances (something on the road for example) you would do something else.

There’s too much angst on Canberra roads, and poor lane discipline is not helping one bit.

It seems like people need to show some self control. Don’t speed and don’t get upset with others because they are in *your lane*

Once again, I think you may have missed the point. It’s not ‘your lane’, it’s not your job to stop others speeding, and it makes things much safer and more predictable for everyone when traffic speed increases from left to right and not both ways.

I understand your argument – if you do the speed limit in the right hand lane then there shouldn’t be a problem. In a perfect world, great. But the real world doesn’t always work that way, and keeping left is a very easy way to reduce risk and stress with no impact other than being a little bit thoughtful.

It is everybody’s lane.
I never claimed it as such, in fact I hate people who do.

And again, I never said I am trying to police peeps, although it is lol at the thought of cretins reading this and raging about people blocking their fast lane.

thebrownstreak691:54 pm 13 Sep 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

JC said :

RadioVK said :

FWIW, I don’t care if you do or don’t keep left, and as others have pointed out, you’re well within your rights to stay in the right hand lane. I was taught to keep left when I learned how to drive, for the reasons I’ve already given. I think that they’re good reasons, whether you agree or not is up to you.

I was taught the same reasons too, basically common sense and courtesy. Something many these days lack, as everything is about them and screw anyone else.

Why do you think it is courteous to stay on the left lane?

So when traffic traveling at higher speeds passes it always does so on the right, rather than having faster traffic weave through slower traffic, which is more dangerous (and stressful for some).

The reality is that some traffic does indeed travel above the speed limit on occasion, and the best thing to do is simply let them go. Yes, it’s illegal, but we live in an imperfect world. It’s not up to us to slow other people down because we’re getting upset that they’re getting some perceived unfair advantage.

Keeping left is something that was taught for decades to new drivers, and it generally works well. Obviously when roads are congested or under unusual circumstances (something on the road for example) you would do something else.

There’s too much angst on Canberra roads, and poor lane discipline is not helping one bit.

It seems like people need to show some self control. Don’t speed and don’t get upset with others because they are in *your lane*

Once again, I think you may have missed the point. It’s not ‘your lane’, it’s not your job to stop others speeding, and it makes things much safer and more predictable for everyone when traffic speed increases from left to right and not both ways.

I understand your argument – if you do the speed limit in the right hand lane then there shouldn’t be a problem. In a perfect world, great. But the real world doesn’t always work that way, and keeping left is a very easy way to reduce risk and stress with no impact other than being a little bit thoughtful.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Why do you think it is courteous to stay on the left lane?

So that other vehicles may pass me safley if they wish. To me the safest place for someone to pass is on the right, so I keep left provided traffic is not congested. The fact they may be speeding is of no consiquence to me and again keeping left and out of their way is the safest place for everyone including myself as I don’t want cars coming up my inside or cutting lanes just because I am in their way.

Woody Mann-Caruso12:25 pm 13 Sep 13

It seems like people need to show some self control. Don’t speed and don’t get upset with others because they are in *your lane*

I think this is the bit I find funniest. I haven’t done a study, and it’s probably all self-selecting bias, but there’s an overlap between the people who say ‘HURR GURR GET OUT OF MY LANE’ and those who like to kick poor people, black people, immigrants, gays…

So are you in a less-than-happy place? Well, that’s because you made CHOICES.
Am I, the tailgater, in a less-than-happy place? Well, that’s because it’s YOUR FAULT.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd11:48 am 13 Sep 13

thebrownstreak69 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

JC said :

RadioVK said :

FWIW, I don’t care if you do or don’t keep left, and as others have pointed out, you’re well within your rights to stay in the right hand lane. I was taught to keep left when I learned how to drive, for the reasons I’ve already given. I think that they’re good reasons, whether you agree or not is up to you.

I was taught the same reasons too, basically common sense and courtesy. Something many these days lack, as everything is about them and screw anyone else.

Why do you think it is courteous to stay on the left lane?

So when traffic traveling at higher speeds passes it always does so on the right, rather than having faster traffic weave through slower traffic, which is more dangerous (and stressful for some).

The reality is that some traffic does indeed travel above the speed limit on occasion, and the best thing to do is simply let them go. Yes, it’s illegal, but we live in an imperfect world. It’s not up to us to slow other people down because we’re getting upset that they’re getting some perceived unfair advantage.

Keeping left is something that was taught for decades to new drivers, and it generally works well. Obviously when roads are congested or under unusual circumstances (something on the road for example) you would do something else.

There’s too much angst on Canberra roads, and poor lane discipline is not helping one bit.

It seems like people need to show some self control. Don’t speed and don’t get upset with others because they are in *your lane*

thebrownstreak699:30 am 13 Sep 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

JC said :

RadioVK said :

FWIW, I don’t care if you do or don’t keep left, and as others have pointed out, you’re well within your rights to stay in the right hand lane. I was taught to keep left when I learned how to drive, for the reasons I’ve already given. I think that they’re good reasons, whether you agree or not is up to you.

I was taught the same reasons too, basically common sense and courtesy. Something many these days lack, as everything is about them and screw anyone else.

Why do you think it is courteous to stay on the left lane?

So when traffic traveling at higher speeds passes it always does so on the right, rather than having faster traffic weave through slower traffic, which is more dangerous (and stressful for some).

The reality is that some traffic does indeed travel above the speed limit on occasion, and the best thing to do is simply let them go. Yes, it’s illegal, but we live in an imperfect world. It’s not up to us to slow other people down because we’re getting upset that they’re getting some perceived unfair advantage.

Keeping left is something that was taught for decades to new drivers, and it generally works well. Obviously when roads are congested or under unusual circumstances (something on the road for example) you would do something else.

There’s too much angst on Canberra roads, and poor lane discipline is not helping one bit.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd11:05 pm 12 Sep 13

JC said :

RadioVK said :

FWIW, I don’t care if you do or don’t keep left, and as others have pointed out, you’re well within your rights to stay in the right hand lane. I was taught to keep left when I learned how to drive, for the reasons I’ve already given. I think that they’re good reasons, whether you agree or not is up to you.

I was taught the same reasons too, basically common sense and courtesy. Something many these days lack, as everything is about them and screw anyone else.

Why do you think it is courteous to stay on the left lane?

RadioVK said :

FWIW, I don’t care if you do or don’t keep left, and as others have pointed out, you’re well within your rights to stay in the right hand lane. I was taught to keep left when I learned how to drive, for the reasons I’ve already given. I think that they’re good reasons, whether you agree or not is up to you.

I was taught the same reasons too, basically common sense and courtesy. Something many these days lack, as everything is about them and screw anyone else.

Aeek said :

If everyone should be in the left lane all the time, why do we need other lanes ? May as well give up the rest of the road to cyclists, buses, and emergency vehicles or just rip it up. Gee, duplicating the GDE was a pointless waste of money.

Simple answer for this one actually. In case you don’t realise the road traffic is not constant. So roads are designed to meet peak load, with a bit of acceptable congestion.

Outside of peak load, clearly not all lanes are needed to carry the traffic using them.

Another reason of course is not all vehicles drive at the same speed, so extra lanes help faster vehicles overtake slower vehicles.

As for the arguments about keeping left, if the law says to do so, ala Gininderra drive and any multi lane road with a speed limit greater than 80km/h then do as the law says. Of course there are some get out clauses such as congestion and of course overtaking.

On other roads though plenty of arguments why vehicles should keep left, but am yet to hear a good one why there is a need to drive in the right, except the road is there, which sounds like a silly argument to me.

Innovation said :

JC said :

Innovation said :

Mind you, I don’t think Canberra is any worse than elsewhere in the nation. For example, the F3 is a complete joke with all of the middle lane and right hand lane hogs. The resultant undertaking, on a three land road, is downright scary to watch and I’ve seen several near misses when two overtaking cars, on the left and right, then try to occupy the middle lane at the same time.

Whilst I agree with what your saying, driving in the middle lane on a 3 lane road is ok. If you ever look at the road rules for keep left unless overtaking it only talks about keeping out of the right lane, not driving in the left, so keeping left includes the middle lane.

You’re right. I haven’t checked. So does this mean that road signs instead should read “Stay out of the right lane unless overtaking”?

In theory yes!

Woody Mann-Caruso5:47 pm 12 Sep 13

FWIW, I don’t care if you do or don’t keep left, and as others have pointed out, you’re well within your rights to stay in the right hand lane. I was taught to keep left when I learned how to drive, for the reasons I’ve already given. I think that they’re good reasons, whether you agree or not is up to you.

I agree with everything in that paragraph.

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

That someone who has a very real, and very valid reason for needing to move through traffic at a speed greater than the speed limit can’t, because you are in the right hand lane.

That hypothetical person who’s literally going to die unless they speed, but for some reason isn’t in an ambulance or police car or whatever?

That non-existant fictional person who’s never actually existed?

You really are a numpty, aren’t you.

I was wondering when the name calling would start. This is Riot Act, after all…

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment. You decide that you are not going to move into the left hand lane to let them past because, after all, you’re doing the speed limit, and nobody has any right to go any faster than you, do they?

The vehicle in front of you just happens to be driven by the only doctor who can save your friend. The doctor is driving to the hospital to start her shift. She doesn’t want to be delayed – for example, by the police – so she’s carefully following the speed limit. You decide that you are going to tailgate her because, after all, you’re entitled, and nobody has any right to go any slower than you, do they? Distracted, she moves into the left lane, into the path of another vehicle. She crashes and dies, and a few hours later, so does your friend.

Next week – why arguing about the real world using imaginary, ludicrously-marginal scenarios is f*cking useless unless you’re as smart as Geoffrey Robertson.

OK. I’ll admit that using a hypothetical may not have been the best way to illustrate the point. You’re not the first to point that out (hi Jim).

I still maintain that assuming that nobody should need to pass you if you’re doing the speed limit is a bad idea.

FWIW, I don’t care if you do or don’t keep left, and as others have pointed out, you’re well within your rights to stay in the right hand lane. I was taught to keep left when I learned how to drive, for the reasons I’ve already given. I think that they’re good reasons, whether you agree or not is up to you.

thebrownstreak694:23 pm 12 Sep 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

MrBigEars said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

How am I being a cock if all I am doing is obeying the law?

Driving in the right hand land at 65 km/h in an 80 zone without a “Keep Left” sign isn’t breaking the law either. Legality does not exclude douchebaggery.

Who drives 65 kph in the right hand lane in a 80 zone?
I have only seem oldies or big trucks do this.

Plenty of people do 65 kph in the right lane, just as plenty do 95 kph.

I figure I’ll use the left lane when not overtaking or preparing to turn right. If I wanted to be a policeman I’d have gone to that college and gotten myself a funny blue hat.

A lot of this thread needs a person with a red flag walking in front of it, warning of slip isms. Which is what my computer made of my attempt to spell solipsisms, but which also sounds vaguely road related.

If everyone should be in the left lane all the time, why do we need other lanes ? May as well give up the rest of the road to cyclists, buses, and emergency vehicles or just rip it up. Gee, duplicating the GDE was a pointless waste of money.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd4:03 pm 12 Sep 13

MrBigEars said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

How am I being a cock if all I am doing is obeying the law?

Driving in the right hand land at 65 km/h in an 80 zone without a “Keep Left” sign isn’t breaking the law either. Legality does not exclude douchebaggery.

Who drives 65 kph in the right hand lane in a 80 zone?
I have only seem oldies or big trucks do this.

Woody Mann-Caruso3:58 pm 12 Sep 13

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment. You decide that you are not going to move into the left hand lane to let them past because, after all, you’re doing the speed limit, and nobody has any right to go any faster than you, do they?

The vehicle in front of you just happens to be driven by the only doctor who can save your friend. The doctor is driving to the hospital to start her shift. She doesn’t want to be delayed – for example, by the police – so she’s carefully following the speed limit. You decide that you are going to tailgate her because, after all, you’re entitled, and nobody has any right to go any slower than you, do they? Distracted, she moves into the left lane, into the path of another vehicle. She crashes and dies, and a few hours later, so does your friend.

Next week – why arguing about the real world using imaginary, ludicrously-marginal scenarios is f*cking useless unless you’re as smart as Geoffrey Robertson.

RadioVK said :

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment.

… but hypothetically, this person is also destined to be a fascist dictator responsible for the torture and murder of millions of innocent people.

So, hypothetically, he’s preventing future-crime!

Also, that hypothetical example was a whole buncha bollocks.

Do you actually have a real argument, or is that it?

What, a ‘real argument’ like: just assume that someone will DIE if they aren’t allowed to speed on the road and YOU’RE STOPPING THEM SPEEDING AND KILLING THEM!!!

Bwa aha ha hhahah ahaha … yeah, nice one Aristotle!

That would be a no then?

The purpose of the exercise is to demonstrate the potential consequences of a particular assumption. If you’re having trouble grasping that, I can’t help you.

Lol. Come on, please please pleaes give me another ‘hypothetical’ with a premise so ridiculous that it undermines your own *cough* argument *cough*.

How about … hypothetically, let’s assume that somone has discovered conclusive proof of a reptoid conspiracy to enslave the population of the earth, and is being chased by reptoid agents in a two-lane 80 zone on Hindmarsh Drive. Now, while there’s no legal requirement for everyone to stick to the left lane so that people can speed past them on the right-hand-lane, but in this instance, failure to do surely prevents this person evading the reptoid agents and revealing the truth to the world at large. Indeed, acting as an ‘obstacle’ by driving in the right-hand lane at the designated speed limit will actually significantly raise the chances of this person being caught and killed by the reptoids.

Therefore, we can conclusive assert that people who refuse to drive in the left-hand lane (regardless of the road regulations) are agents of the reptoid conspiracy.

I know you’re just being facetious, but the example you give is just as valid.

My point is that the assumption that nobody should have any valid reason to need to get past you if you are doing the speed limit in the right hand lane is wrong.

Your example, while deliberately ridiculous, still validates my point that making such an assumption is wrong.

I understand that keeping left is not the law, I’m just trying to demonstrate that it’s good practice not to occupy the right hand lane if you don’t need to.

Face it: your hypothetical scenario was so ridiculous as to paint your own supposed argument into absurdity.

The most you’ve done is given a few people a good chuckle.

RadioVK said :

That someone who has a very real, and very valid reason for needing to move through traffic at a speed greater than the speed limit can’t, because you are in the right hand lane.

That hypothetical person who’s literally going to die unless they speed, but for some reason isn’t in an ambulance or police car or whatever?

That non-existant fictional person who’s never actually existed?

You really are a numpty, aren’t you.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

RadioVK said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

RadioVK said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

I’d just like to put a hypothetical to you and Woody Mann-Caruso.

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment. You decide that you are not going to move into the left hand lane to let them past because, after all, you’re doing the speed limit, and nobody has any right to go any faster than you, do they?

Before you all start banging on about how “they should have called an ambulance” or whatever, assume that they may have made a bad decision, under pressure, not to wait for an ambulance. Or perhaps that was the instructions from the emergency operator, it has happened before.

My points are:
1. You are not privy to what is happening in the car behind you, or their reasons for speeding or trying to get past you. Just because you don’t see a good reason for their speed, doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
2. You are not the Police. Leave enforcing road rules to those who are trained and paid to do so.

Your attitude to keeping left just comes across as sheer bloody-mindedness.

Don’t make poor decisions. Call a ambulance.

I never said I am enforcing the law, it’s just some by product of my heroic actions.

I’ll take that argument (or lack thereof) as an admission that, in the context of this hypothetical at least, that you simply don’t care about the consequences of your actions.

Ummm, what exactly are the consequences of my actions?

That someone who has a very real, and very valid reason for needing to move through traffic at a speed greater than the speed limit can’t, because you are in the right hand lane.

As I’ve said in other posts, I’m not disputing that what you are doing is legal. I’m not even that worried if you do drive in the right hand lane. What I do take issue with is your justification that if you are doing the speed limit then nobody has any reason to need to go faster than you, or get past you.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

How am I being a cock if all I am doing is obeying the law?

There’s no law against coming into my office and dropping your guts either.

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment.

… but hypothetically, this person is also destined to be a fascist dictator responsible for the torture and murder of millions of innocent people.

So, hypothetically, he’s preventing future-crime!

Also, that hypothetical example was a whole buncha bollocks.

Do you actually have a real argument, or is that it?

What, a ‘real argument’ like: just assume that someone will DIE if they aren’t allowed to speed on the road and YOU’RE STOPPING THEM SPEEDING AND KILLING THEM!!!

Bwa aha ha hhahah ahaha … yeah, nice one Aristotle!

That would be a no then?

The purpose of the exercise is to demonstrate the potential consequences of a particular assumption. If you’re having trouble grasping that, I can’t help you.

Lol. Come on, please please pleaes give me another ‘hypothetical’ with a premise so ridiculous that it undermines your own *cough* argument *cough*.

How about … hypothetically, let’s assume that somone has discovered conclusive proof of a reptoid conspiracy to enslave the population of the earth, and is being chased by reptoid agents in a two-lane 80 zone on Hindmarsh Drive. Now, while there’s no legal requirement for everyone to stick to the left lane so that people can speed past them on the right-hand-lane, but in this instance, failure to do surely prevents this person evading the reptoid agents and revealing the truth to the world at large. Indeed, acting as an ‘obstacle’ by driving in the right-hand lane at the designated speed limit will actually significantly raise the chances of this person being caught and killed by the reptoids.

Therefore, we can conclusive assert that people who refuse to drive in the left-hand lane (regardless of the road regulations) are agents of the reptoid conspiracy.

I know you’re just being facetious, but the example you give is just as valid.

My point is that the assumption that nobody should have any valid reason to need to get past you if you are doing the speed limit in the right hand lane is wrong.

Your example, while deliberately ridiculous, still validates my point that making such an assumption is wrong.

I understand that keeping left is not the law, I’m just trying to demonstrate that it’s good practice not to occupy the right hand lane if you don’t need to.

p1 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

How am I being a cock if all I am doing is obeying the law?

There are many, many things which, while legal, are impolite (or, if you like, “being a cock”).

Some people like being impolite. Most people, on occasion, decide to be impolite as they have a need. Most people, on occasion, are impolite unintentionally due to not knowing or understanding accepted conventions.

Some people are cocks.

Moreso … “Some are born great, some achieve greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them.” Seems there’s something in that for all of us.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

How am I being a cock if all I am doing is obeying the law?

Driving in the right hand land at 65 km/h in an 80 zone without a “Keep Left” sign isn’t breaking the law either. Legality does not exclude douchebaggery.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

How am I being a cock if all I am doing is obeying the law?

There are many, many things which, while legal, are impolite (or, if you like, “being a cock”).

Some people like being impolite. Most people, on occasion, decide to be impolite as they have a need. Most people, on occasion, are impolite unintentionally due to not knowing or understanding accepted conventions.

Some people are cocks.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd1:11 pm 12 Sep 13

voytek3 said :

Aeek said :

voytek3 said :

Here it is: Keep left on ALL roads unless overtaking or immediately before you have to make a turn. If you sit in the right lane you do not know how to drive and shouldn’t be on the road. If this was enforced at least four fifths of Canberra drivers would be off the roads.

Morons take heed.

So you stay in the left lane and cross at the last second on say Hindmarsh Drive which is 3 lane.
True, I’d have to be a moron to take heed of you.

Oh look. Its the exact type of moron that cant drive I referred to. Three whole lanes! Wow! This is Canberra. The parkway/Gininderra drive/any main artery in this town is hardly the Trocadero during peak hour. I could get from the left lane at 1730 on any of these roads to the right lane and make my turn driving a T-34 tank in reverse within a few hundred metres of the turn. Do me a favour and sell your car and start using public transport – you shouldnt be on the road.

voytek3 said :

Here it is: Keep left on ALL roads unless overtaking or immediately before you have to make a turn. If you sit in the right lane you do not know how to drive and shouldn’t be on the road. If this was enforced at least four fifths of Canberra drivers would be off the roads.

Morons take heed.

Aren’t you one of the ones who was saying that if the majority of drivers are speeding then speed-limits shouldn’t be enforced? Bloody hypocrites.

No. I’m just saying that if you automatically get into the right lane when you get behind the wheel you are a moron that cant drive and shouldn’t be on the road.

Actually, the fact they are in the right hand lane driving a car proves they can drive.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd1:08 pm 12 Sep 13

CraigT said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Robertson said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

You are the one endangering people by causing an obstruction.

Many people get frustrated at your selfish behaviour and this often leads to them making poor decisions.

Just be a decent human being and stop trying to control others’ behaviour – if their perception of the appropriate speed they should be driving at differs from yours, it’s none of your business to enforce whatever you think it is.

Flawed logic. I’m doing nothing wrong. I am not causing a obstruction because I am doing the speed limit.

That is a complete non-sequitur. The speed limit has nothing to do with your apparently deliberate obstruction of the road.
Just co-operate with others on the road and stop being a cock.

How am I being a cock if all I am doing is obeying the law?

RadioVK said :

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment.

… but hypothetically, this person is also destined to be a fascist dictator responsible for the torture and murder of millions of innocent people.

So, hypothetically, he’s preventing future-crime!

Also, that hypothetical example was a whole buncha bollocks.

Do you actually have a real argument, or is that it?

What, a ‘real argument’ like: just assume that someone will DIE if they aren’t allowed to speed on the road and YOU’RE STOPPING THEM SPEEDING AND KILLING THEM!!!

Bwa aha ha hhahah ahaha … yeah, nice one Aristotle!

That would be a no then?

The purpose of the exercise is to demonstrate the potential consequences of a particular assumption. If you’re having trouble grasping that, I can’t help you.

Lol. Come on, please please pleaes give me another ‘hypothetical’ with a premise so ridiculous that it undermines your own *cough* argument *cough*.

How about … hypothetically, let’s assume that somone has discovered conclusive proof of a reptoid conspiracy to enslave the population of the earth, and is being chased by reptoid agents in a two-lane 80 zone on Hindmarsh Drive. Now, while there’s no legal requirement for everyone to stick to the left lane so that people can speed past them on the right-hand-lane, but in this instance, failure to do surely prevents this person evading the reptoid agents and revealing the truth to the world at large. Indeed, acting as an ‘obstacle’ by driving in the right-hand lane at the designated speed limit will actually significantly raise the chances of this person being caught and killed by the reptoids.

Therefore, we can conclusive assert that people who refuse to drive in the left-hand lane (regardless of the road regulations) are agents of the reptoid conspiracy.

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment.

… but hypothetically, this person is also destined to be a fascist dictator responsible for the torture and murder of millions of innocent people.

So, hypothetically, he’s preventing future-crime!

Also, that hypothetical example was a whole buncha bollocks.

Do you actually have a real argument, or is that it?

What, a ‘real argument’ like: just assume that someone will DIE if they aren’t allowed to speed on the road and YOU’RE STOPPING THEM SPEEDING AND KILLING THEM!!!

Bwa aha ha hhahah ahaha … yeah, nice one Aristotle!

That would be a no then?

The purpose of the exercise is to demonstrate the potential consequences of a particular assumption. If you’re having trouble grasping that, I can’t help you.

Aeek said :

voytek3 said :

Here it is: Keep left on ALL roads unless overtaking or immediately before you have to make a turn. If you sit in the right lane you do not know how to drive and shouldn’t be on the road. If this was enforced at least four fifths of Canberra drivers would be off the roads.

Morons take heed.

So you stay in the left lane and cross at the last second on say Hindmarsh Drive which is 3 lane.
True, I’d have to be a moron to take heed of you.

Oh look. Its the exact type of moron that cant drive I referred to. Three whole lanes! Wow! This is Canberra. The parkway/Gininderra drive/any main artery in this town is hardly the Trocadero during peak hour. I could get from the left lane at 1730 on any of these roads to the right lane and make my turn driving a T-34 tank in reverse within a few hundred metres of the turn. Do me a favour and sell your car and start using public transport – you shouldnt be on the road.

voytek3 said :

Here it is: Keep left on ALL roads unless overtaking or immediately before you have to make a turn. If you sit in the right lane you do not know how to drive and shouldn’t be on the road. If this was enforced at least four fifths of Canberra drivers would be off the roads.

Morons take heed.

Aren’t you one of the ones who was saying that if the majority of drivers are speeding then speed-limits shouldn’t be enforced? Bloody hypocrites.

No. I’m just saying that if you automatically get into the right lane when you get behind the wheel you are a moron that cant drive and shouldn’t be on the road.

thebrownstreak6910:00 am 12 Sep 13

I think some people are courtesy confused with law.

CraigT said :

That is a complete non-sequitur. The speed limit has nothing to do with your apparently deliberate obstruction of the road.
Just co-operate with others on the road and stop being a cock.

Um … yes it does. It’s impossible to be an ‘obstruction’ if you’re doing the speed limit.

Again, the left-hand lane is not the ‘I’m a better driver than everyone else so the speed limits don’t apply to me’ lane.

Also, you might want to rethink your defintion of ‘co-operating with others’, which seems to be limited to: ‘Out of my way, I’m a motorist.’

RadioVK said :

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment.

… but hypothetically, this person is also destined to be a fascist dictator responsible for the torture and murder of millions of innocent people.

So, hypothetically, he’s preventing future-crime!

Also, that hypothetical example was a whole buncha bollocks.

Do you actually have a real argument, or is that it?

What, a ‘real argument’ like: just assume that someone will DIE if they aren’t allowed to speed on the road and YOU’RE STOPPING THEM SPEEDING AND KILLING THEM!!!

Bwa aha ha hhahah ahaha … yeah, nice one Aristotle!

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Robertson said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

You are the one endangering people by causing an obstruction.

Many people get frustrated at your selfish behaviour and this often leads to them making poor decisions.

Just be a decent human being and stop trying to control others’ behaviour – if their perception of the appropriate speed they should be driving at differs from yours, it’s none of your business to enforce whatever you think it is.

Flawed logic. I’m doing nothing wrong. I am not causing a obstruction because I am doing the speed limit.

That is a complete non-sequitur. The speed limit has nothing to do with your apparently deliberate obstruction of the road.
Just co-operate with others on the road and stop being a cock.

Gerry-Built said :

On the topic if Ginninderra Drive – with the roadworks in Charnwood – where the new emergency services hub is, does anyone know what the deal is with the 60 signs? They had shadecloth covers, as if they are to be covered over when not in use, but they always seem to be uncovered… and bugger me if every bugger sits with the nose of their car almost touching my rear bumper when I’m doing 60 along there…

They are one of the strangest roadworks zones I have ever seen.

When they first started the building they weren’t there, but that area was where loads of deliveries came in and the tradies parked. They started building the concrete road in the middle of the median without any roadworks signs, but they appeared midway through. Originally they covered the signs at night but only west bound. Once they finished the concrete the signs disappeared for a few days only to reappear and since then they haven’t covered them.

The current situation is there is no roadworks nor larger deliveries. The whole building site is fenced off, so no obvious need for the slow zone. Not that many obey it, and those that do end up, as you mentioned with a car right up their hammer.

voytek3 said :

Here it is: Keep left on ALL roads unless overtaking or immediately before you have to make a turn. If you sit in the right lane you do not know how to drive and shouldn’t be on the road. If this was enforced at least four fifths of Canberra drivers would be off the roads.

Morons take heed.

Aren’t you one of the ones who was saying that if the majority of drivers are speeding then speed-limits shouldn’t be enforced? Bloody hypocrites.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd11:53 pm 11 Sep 13

voytek3 said :

Here it is: Keep left on ALL roads unless overtaking or immediately before you have to make a turn. If you sit in the right lane you do not know how to drive and shouldn’t be on the road. If this was enforced at least four fifths of Canberra drivers would be off the roads.

Morons take heed.

You do not seem to understand the road laws.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd11:52 pm 11 Sep 13

RadioVK said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

RadioVK said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

I’d just like to put a hypothetical to you and Woody Mann-Caruso.

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment. You decide that you are not going to move into the left hand lane to let them past because, after all, you’re doing the speed limit, and nobody has any right to go any faster than you, do they?

Before you all start banging on about how “they should have called an ambulance” or whatever, assume that they may have made a bad decision, under pressure, not to wait for an ambulance. Or perhaps that was the instructions from the emergency operator, it has happened before.

My points are:
1. You are not privy to what is happening in the car behind you, or their reasons for speeding or trying to get past you. Just because you don’t see a good reason for their speed, doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
2. You are not the Police. Leave enforcing road rules to those who are trained and paid to do so.

Your attitude to keeping left just comes across as sheer bloody-mindedness.

Don’t make poor decisions. Call a ambulance.

I never said I am enforcing the law, it’s just some by product of my heroic actions.

I’ll take that argument (or lack thereof) as an admission that, in the context of this hypothetical at least, that you simply don’t care about the consequences of your actions.

Ummm, what exactly are the consequences of my actions?

voytek3 said :

Here it is: Keep left on ALL roads unless overtaking or immediately before you have to make a turn. If you sit in the right lane you do not know how to drive and shouldn’t be on the road. If this was enforced at least four fifths of Canberra drivers would be off the roads.

Morons take heed.

So you stay in the left lane and cross at the last second on say Hindmarsh Drive which is 3 lane.
True, I’d have to be a moron to take heed of you.

On the topic if Ginninderra Drive – with the roadworks in Charnwood – where the new emergency services hub is, does anyone know what the deal is with the 60 signs? They had shadecloth covers, as if they are to be covered over when not in use, but they always seem to be uncovered… and bugger me if every bugger sits with the nose of their car almost touching my rear bumper when I’m doing 60 along there…

Here it is: Keep left on ALL roads unless overtaking or immediately before you have to make a turn. If you sit in the right lane you do not know how to drive and shouldn’t be on the road. If this was enforced at least four fifths of Canberra drivers would be off the roads.

Morons take heed.

annus_horribilis8:49 pm 11 Sep 13

annus_horribilis498638″]

annus_horribilis said :

JC said :

RB78 said :

There does seem to be an awful lot of people who have a “I’m indicating, outta my way!” approach to changing lanes. Last I checked you’re meant to give way when merging/changing lanes, not just shove your way in and cause everyone else to hit the brakes.

Happened to me yesterday outside the lakeside hotel. I was coming off Commonwealth Ave and a 4WD was coming along London CCT. The very moment the two lanes became side my side outside the hotel the 4WD indicated and started to move, never mind of course the front of my car was level with his back wheel. I slowed and gave a toot of the horn, he stopped coming across for a second, then sped up and pulled in front anyway, and for my efforts got given the bird. All he needed to do was actually look and pull in behind which would have been easy as he was going quite a bit slower than me anyway. But guess that would have meant he was one car behind at the lights.

Then to top it off once the lights changed the 4WD turned left and I continued on, but the car that was in the right hand lane at the lights more or less did the same thing. I gather he assumed I too was turning.

Sorry, did you just say the vehicle in front of at a merge should have braked and dropped in behind you?

Do you see the word MERGE anywhere in my post? No. If it was a merge, specifically a form one lane then yes I would have had to go in behind as the vehicle in front has the right of way. (not so with a line cross merge though but that is besides the point here)

What I said is where “two lanes became side my side” (of course I meant side BY side). Ie I was on the exit off Commonwealth Ave which is a single lane on the left, the other car was on London CCT which is a single lane on the right and they they come side by side just before the Lakeside Hotel to form a dual lane road. The car in the right lane crossed to the lane I was occupying the moment he could, without any care for the fact I was not only in the lane but also partially beside him.

So no merge here, just a simple lane change.

Ahh yes, I see. Thanks for the clarification

annus_horribilis said :

JC said :

RB78 said :

There does seem to be an awful lot of people who have a “I’m indicating, outta my way!” approach to changing lanes. Last I checked you’re meant to give way when merging/changing lanes, not just shove your way in and cause everyone else to hit the brakes.

Happened to me yesterday outside the lakeside hotel. I was coming off Commonwealth Ave and a 4WD was coming along London CCT. The very moment the two lanes became side my side outside the hotel the 4WD indicated and started to move, never mind of course the front of my car was level with his back wheel. I slowed and gave a toot of the horn, he stopped coming across for a second, then sped up and pulled in front anyway, and for my efforts got given the bird. All he needed to do was actually look and pull in behind which would have been easy as he was going quite a bit slower than me anyway. But guess that would have meant he was one car behind at the lights.

Then to top it off once the lights changed the 4WD turned left and I continued on, but the car that was in the right hand lane at the lights more or less did the same thing. I gather he assumed I too was turning.

Sorry, did you just say the vehicle in front of at a merge should have braked and dropped in behind you?

Do you see the word MERGE anywhere in my post? No. If it was a merge, specifically a form one lane then yes I would have had to go in behind as the vehicle in front has the right of way. (not so with a line cross merge though but that is besides the point here)

What I said is where “two lanes became side my side” (of course I meant side BY side). Ie I was on the exit off Commonwealth Ave which is a single lane on the left, the other car was on London CCT which is a single lane on the right and they they come side by side just before the Lakeside Hotel to form a dual lane road. The car in the right lane crossed to the lane I was occupying the moment he could, without any care for the fact I was not only in the lane but also partially beside him.

So no merge here, just a simple lane change.

annus_horribilis7:28 pm 11 Sep 13

JC said :

RB78 said :

There does seem to be an awful lot of people who have a “I’m indicating, outta my way!” approach to changing lanes. Last I checked you’re meant to give way when merging/changing lanes, not just shove your way in and cause everyone else to hit the brakes.

Happened to me yesterday outside the lakeside hotel. I was coming off Commonwealth Ave and a 4WD was coming along London CCT. The very moment the two lanes became side my side outside the hotel the 4WD indicated and started to move, never mind of course the front of my car was level with his back wheel. I slowed and gave a toot of the horn, he stopped coming across for a second, then sped up and pulled in front anyway, and for my efforts got given the bird. All he needed to do was actually look and pull in behind which would have been easy as he was going quite a bit slower than me anyway. But guess that would have meant he was one car behind at the lights.

Then to top it off once the lights changed the 4WD turned left and I continued on, but the car that was in the right hand lane at the lights more or less did the same thing. I gather he assumed I too was turning.

Sorry, did you just say the vehicle in front of at a merge should have braked and dropped in behind you?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

RadioVK said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

I’d just like to put a hypothetical to you and Woody Mann-Caruso.

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment. You decide that you are not going to move into the left hand lane to let them past because, after all, you’re doing the speed limit, and nobody has any right to go any faster than you, do they?

Before you all start banging on about how “they should have called an ambulance” or whatever, assume that they may have made a bad decision, under pressure, not to wait for an ambulance. Or perhaps that was the instructions from the emergency operator, it has happened before.

My points are:
1. You are not privy to what is happening in the car behind you, or their reasons for speeding or trying to get past you. Just because you don’t see a good reason for their speed, doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
2. You are not the Police. Leave enforcing road rules to those who are trained and paid to do so.

Your attitude to keeping left just comes across as sheer bloody-mindedness.

Don’t make poor decisions. Call a ambulance.

I never said I am enforcing the law, it’s just some by product of my heroic actions.

I’ll take that argument (or lack thereof) as an admission that, in the context of this hypothetical at least, that you simply don’t care about the consequences of your actions.

Jim Jones said :

RadioVK said :

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment.

… but hypothetically, this person is also destined to be a fascist dictator responsible for the torture and murder of millions of innocent people.

So, hypothetically, he’s preventing future-crime!

Also, that hypothetical example was a whole buncha bollocks.

Do you actually have a real argument, or is that it?

DrKoresh said :

Robertson said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

You are the one endangering people by causing an obstruction.

Many people get frustrated at your selfish behaviour and this often leads to them making poor decisions.

Just be a decent human being and stop trying to control others’ behaviour – if their perception of the appropriate speed they should be driving at differs from yours, it’s none of your business to enforce whatever you think it is.

Surely by the same token, if your perception of when it’s appropriate to be in RHL differs from CGN, then it’s none of your business to enforce your ideals on him?

IIRC, you don’t even drive so STFU.

Robertson said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

You are the one endangering people by causing an obstruction.

Many people get frustrated at your selfish behaviour and this often leads to them making poor decisions.

Just be a decent human being and stop trying to control others’ behaviour – if their perception of the appropriate speed they should be driving at differs from yours, it’s none of your business to enforce whatever you think it is.

Gold.

BimboGeek said :

The other thing I was taught was never to undertake (overtake to the left). If this is illegal then anyone putting away in the right lane is effectively blocking the entire road.

In Australia when there are two separate lanes you are considered to be passing, not undertaking. Undertaking is where you go up the left of someone in the same lane. This is ok of course if that vehicle is turning right.

Go to the UK though and what you described is the law. So on a multilane road technically speaking you should never go up the left even if you have your own lane. Makes it hard in heavy traffic to abide by this particular rule, and don’t recall when reading the UK highway code (their road rules) any exception for heavy traffic.

MrBigEars said :

Not that I approve of barging in, but If that was me, I would have let him change lanes. It would be little skin off my nose, and traffic doesn’t need to slow a halt. Traffic moves, no one needs to stop, everyone wins. Or at least, no one loses completely.

I’d rather be effective than right, any day.

This wasn’t a case of barging in, it was a case of the driver in the other lane failing to give way. I mean to say the front of my car was already inline with his rear wheels, he just indicated and started to move, with me having to take evasive action to avoid the accident. Then afterwards you would think nearly having caused an accident the driver would have let me pass, in the lane I was already in and pull in behind, which is what he should have done anyway.

The problem with this bit of road and others like it is the mentality that when two lanes come from different directions and are then side by side to change lanes as soon as they join, rather than waiting and looking. I see it all the time on state circle too, cars come off Commonwealth Ave and try to get in the middle lane straight away and cars coming along state circle want to get in the left straight away, despite there been a good 500m to perform a lane change, yet vehicles want to do it right at the beginning.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd4:43 pm 11 Sep 13

RadioVK said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

I’d just like to put a hypothetical to you and Woody Mann-Caruso.

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment. You decide that you are not going to move into the left hand lane to let them past because, after all, you’re doing the speed limit, and nobody has any right to go any faster than you, do they?

Before you all start banging on about how “they should have called an ambulance” or whatever, assume that they may have made a bad decision, under pressure, not to wait for an ambulance. Or perhaps that was the instructions from the emergency operator, it has happened before.

My points are:
1. You are not privy to what is happening in the car behind you, or their reasons for speeding or trying to get past you. Just because you don’t see a good reason for their speed, doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
2. You are not the Police. Leave enforcing road rules to those who are trained and paid to do so.

Your attitude to keeping left just comes across as sheer bloody-mindedness.

Don’t make poor decisions. Call a ambulance.

I never said I am enforcing the law, it’s just some by product of my heroic actions.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd4:39 pm 11 Sep 13

Robertson said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

You are the one endangering people by causing an obstruction.

Many people get frustrated at your selfish behaviour and this often leads to them making poor decisions.

Just be a decent human being and stop trying to control others’ behaviour – if their perception of the appropriate speed they should be driving at differs from yours, it’s none of your business to enforce whatever you think it is.

Flawed logic. I’m doing nothing wrong. I am not causing a obstruction because I am doing the speed limit. You are the one trying to change my behaviour, not the other way around.
If peeps start raging and crash because the see other peeps doing the posted limit in the right hand lane then they probably should not be driving to start with.

Most people would also think that being a decent human being requires obeying the law.

Robertson said :

DrKoresh said :

Robertson said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

You are the one endangering people by causing an obstruction.

Many people get frustrated at your selfish behaviour and this often leads to them making poor decisions.

Just be a decent human being and stop trying to control others’ behaviour – if their perception of the appropriate speed they should be driving at differs from yours, it’s none of your business to enforce whatever you think it is.

Surely by the same token, if your perception of when it’s appropriate to be in RHL differs from CGN, then it’s none of your business to enforce your ideals on him?

Nobody is doing any such thing: they are being obstructed by somebody who is unnecessarily clogging up the right hand lane.

Unnecessarily clogging up the right hand lane by doing the speed limit in complete accordance with the road rules?

Sounds like the only people with a problem here are the ones that start with the idea that the right-hand lane is ‘the speeding lane’. It’s not.

DrKoresh said :

Robertson said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

You are the one endangering people by causing an obstruction.

Many people get frustrated at your selfish behaviour and this often leads to them making poor decisions.

Just be a decent human being and stop trying to control others’ behaviour – if their perception of the appropriate speed they should be driving at differs from yours, it’s none of your business to enforce whatever you think it is.

Surely by the same token, if your perception of when it’s appropriate to be in RHL differs from CGN, then it’s none of your business to enforce your ideals on him?

Nobody is doing any such thing: they are being obstructed by somebody who is unnecessarily clogging up the right hand lane.

RadioVK said :

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment.

… but hypothetically, this person is also destined to be a fascist dictator responsible for the torture and murder of millions of innocent people.

So, hypothetically, he’s preventing future-crime!

Also, that hypothetical example was a whole buncha bollocks.

Robertson said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

You are the one endangering people by causing an obstruction.

Many people get frustrated at your selfish behaviour and this often leads to them making poor decisions.

Just be a decent human being and stop trying to control others’ behaviour – if their perception of the appropriate speed they should be driving at differs from yours, it’s none of your business to enforce whatever you think it is.

Surely by the same token, if your perception of when it’s appropriate to be in RHL differs from CGN, then it’s none of your business to enforce your ideals on him?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

I’d just like to put a hypothetical to you and Woody Mann-Caruso.

The vehicle behind you just happens to be trying to transport someone with a serious, life threatening illness to hospital for potentially life saving treatment. You decide that you are not going to move into the left hand lane to let them past because, after all, you’re doing the speed limit, and nobody has any right to go any faster than you, do they?

Before you all start banging on about how “they should have called an ambulance” or whatever, assume that they may have made a bad decision, under pressure, not to wait for an ambulance. Or perhaps that was the instructions from the emergency operator, it has happened before.

My points are:
1. You are not privy to what is happening in the car behind you, or their reasons for speeding or trying to get past you. Just because you don’t see a good reason for their speed, doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
2. You are not the Police. Leave enforcing road rules to those who are trained and paid to do so.

Your attitude to keeping left just comes across as sheer bloody-mindedness.

BimboGeek said :

The other thing I was taught was never to undertake (overtake to the left). If this is illegal then anyone putting away in the right lane is effectively blocking the entire road.

Perfectly legal when there are two or more marked lanes.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

(Another nice marginal example, by the way. Are the imaginary police on their way to intercept the imaginary people in their imaginary cars doing exactly 85 exactly side by side for the entire length of an otherwise empty Parkway?)

What, you can have an imaginary world where everyone does whatever makes them happy with detriment to society, and I can’t even have one little imaginary ambulance. That isn’t very sporting of you.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Anyways, keep ranting. You haven’t changed the law, you haven’t changed anybody’s behaviour, you’re still stamping your impotent little feet on the accelerator of your big bad car, and I’m still seeing you in my rear vision mirror or at the next lights. Try not to pop any veins.

Yup, I’ll keep up my ranting, you keep up your intelligent, thoughtful contributions. 🙂

The other thing I was taught was never to undertake (overtake to the left). If this is illegal then anyone putting away in the right lane is effectively blocking the entire road.

If some asshat with a time management problem is trying to scream past me, I have two options:

1. Courteously keep left
2. Become the rolling road block speed police.

Option 2 is more fun but option 1 is much more safe. He can’t crash into me if I’m behaving predictably and he’s sober.

Same if some numpty with no sense of direction is trying to get in my lane at the last second. Do you really want this numpty panicking while driving a tonne or two right next to you?

Finally, sitting in my blind spot is dangerous. Sometimes I vague out because I’m very blonde. I’m sorry and I do my best but I’m not perfect. Please don’t do this.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

You are the one endangering people by causing an obstruction.

Many people get frustrated at your selfish behaviour and this often leads to them making poor decisions.

Just be a decent human being and stop trying to control others’ behaviour – if their perception of the appropriate speed they should be driving at differs from yours, it’s none of your business to enforce whatever you think it is.

Woody Mann-Caruso1:16 pm 11 Sep 13

Oh, look, Little Woody has Control issues.
Oh, look, Little Woody has Envy issues.

If by ‘control’ you mean ‘the law’ and ‘the speed limit’, then yes. I’m not sure why I’d be envious, given that I’m in front of you, have an average penis size, and don’t get speeding fines.

Just don’t be a cock: keep left and stop obstructing traffic.

I’ll keep left when the speed limit is above 80 or I’m on a road with the relevant signs. Otherwise, I’ll drive wherever I f*cking feel like, and you can just suck it. Have an awesome day!

I bet Woody is the kind of tard

‘Tard’? That’s very classy. Got any child abuse jokes?

that would see a car approaching on his right hand lane, and change lanes just to “calm the traffic”.

Nope. You forget – I’m already in the right hand lane. U mad bro? (I kid. I like the left lane. It’s faster, because it’s not full of tailgating numpties repeatedly applying their brakes.)

I totally wasn’t thinking off the times that the only two cars on the parkway are doing 85 in a hundred zone.

Oh, so an imaginary problem, that happens to imaginary people? Not the ‘problem’ we’re talking about, which is real people doing the speed limit in a lane you happen to find inconvenient to your law-breaking?

Most people expect people to pass on the right. How does your utopian drive in a any lane I want world feel about police and ambulances potentially wanting to move faster then the flow of traffic?

Most people expect to be allowed to go faster than the flow of traffic, whatever that happens to be. I couldn’t care less, because muppets have to follow the law like everybody else. If everybody is doing the speed limit, nobody needs to pass anybody. If there’s too much traffic to do the speed limit, then nobody is getting anywhere faster than anybody else, and nobody needs to pass anybody.

If the police and ambulance need to get somewhere fast, they’ll do what they always do – lights and sirens, and then do the best they can. (Another nice marginal example, by the way. Are the imaginary police on their way to intercept the imaginary people in their imaginary cars doing exactly 85 exactly side by side for the entire length of an otherwise empty Parkway?)

Maybe, but I try to be a polite and predictable road use.

Predictably thinking you’re entitled to go faster than everybody else in the right lane and getting cranky when you can’t? Diddums.

Anyways, keep ranting. You haven’t changed the law, you haven’t changed anybody’s behaviour, you’re still stamping your impotent little feet on the accelerator of your big bad car, and I’m still seeing you in my rear vision mirror or at the next lights. Try not to pop any veins.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd11:48 am 11 Sep 13

It’s not obstructing traffic if they are doing the speed limit. If you get upset because you want to speed and I’m in the right hand lane, bad luck. I’m not going to move over so you can break the law and endanger others

p1 said :

Maybe, but I try to be a polite and predictable road useR.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

If all speedos are different, why should I get out of your way just because you want to go faster? Either the left lane is free, in which case you can pass, or it’s not, in which case traffic is congested or you can just do 79 for a minute until there’s an opening.

Yes, cause I was talking about two cars doing 79 in traffic. I totally wasn’t thinking off the times that the only two cars on the parkway are doing 85 in a hundred zone.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

If both cars are doing the speed limit, who cares? It’s called ‘traffic’. I mean, how dare there be cars in front of you in both lanes? The nerve! Didn’t they know you were coming and that you like to have an unobstructed view to the Brindabellas?

When I’m doing the same speed as half of Canberra on the way to work in the morning I don’t get upset, take the time to sneak some glances at the lovely view of the Brindies. When one single driver is too much of a rude prick to let traffic flow, I get mildly irked.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

If every driver obeyed the speed limit and kept a safe following distance, nobody would need to complain about people legally and safely using the right lane.

True. And, as if I said, if every driver behaved in a predictable way it would make the roads easier to navigate and safer for all – which was a large part of my poor reasoning. Most people expect people to pass on the right. How does your utopian drive in a any lane I want world feel about police and ambulances potentially wanting to move faster then the flow of traffic?

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

I maintain that you have an overinflated sense of self-entitlement….

Maybe, but I try to be a polite and predictable road use.

It’s self appointed traffic cops like Woody that are the worst. Forget courtesy. I bet Woody is the kind of tard that would see a car approaching on his right hand lane, and change lanes just to “calm the traffic”. Selfish wanker.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Not speeding? You won’t care if I’m in the right lane.
Speeding? I don’t care what you think.

Oh, look, Little Woody has Control issues.
Oh, look, Little Woody has Envy issues.

Just don’t be a cock: keep left and stop obstructing traffic.

Sandman said :

magiccar9 said :

ThatGuy said :

Courtesy, courtesy is the key. Courteously keep left, courteously let cars that indicate into ‘your’ lane rather than speeding up in an arrogant flap.

Oh right, let in cars who indicate and try to get into a non-existent gap. I’ll continue to not let people in when it’s clearly on them to indicate and change lanes when a suitable gap is presented. No, this doesn’t mean making the other car slow down to make such a gap!

[best Mythbusters voice]. Well there’s your problem! [end voice]

If there’s a nonexistent gap in front of you then your magic car must be tailgating.

Exactly.

I am often amazed to find, when I need to change lanes in order to use an exit, that people seem to be tailgating in order to specifically obstruct my lane-change.

There is no such thing as a “non-existent gap”. There is always a gap. If the car changing lanes is ahead of you and driving at the same speed, you have to ease off and let it in.

Woody Mann-Caruso8:22 am 11 Sep 13

p1 said :

My reasoning:

…is poor. Let’s see why, shall we?

p1 said :

1. Not everybody’s speedo reads the same. Just because you think you are doing “exactly” the speedlimit does not mean you are. And even if you are, it doesn’t mean I don’t also think I am doing the speedlimit.

If all speedos are different, why should I get out of your way just because you want to go faster? Either the left lane is free, in which case you can pass, or it’s not, in which case traffic is congested or you can just do 79 for a minute until there’s an opening. (We’ll ignore that this is utterly disingenuous for a moment. Nobody is talking about 81 vs 79. They’re talking about the morons doing 91 who think the right lane is their personal speeding lae.)

p1 said :

2. In the event that two cars are doing the exactly the same speed, close to each other, having them in the same lane (by convention, the left) means that someone wishing to pass can do so, rather then having to follow for km after km while they sit side by side.

If both cars are doing the speed limit, who cares? It’s called ‘traffic’. I mean, how dare there be cars in front of you in both lanes? The nerve! Didn’t they know you were coming and that you like to have an unobstructed view to the Brindabellas?

p1 said :

3. If every driver (not otherwise engaged in overtaking, preparing to turn, etc) occupied the same default road position it would make it easier to everyone else to predict there behaviour (thus making it safer, and making traffic flow more smoothly).

If every driver obeyed the speed limit and kept a safe following distance, nobody would need to complain about people legally and safely using the right lane.

p1 said :

I maintain that it is impolite.

I maintain that you have an overinflated sense of self-entitlement, and that learning to share with law-abiding citizens is going to make you much happier over time than consistently tailgating, overtaking, then pretending you don’t see me right next to you at the next set of lights.

RB78 said :

There does seem to be an awful lot of people who have a “I’m indicating, outta my way!” approach to changing lanes. Last I checked you’re meant to give way when merging/changing lanes, not just shove your way in and cause everyone else to hit the brakes.

I blame it on pandering to the cyclists. Far too many good dual lane roads in this town have become “on again, off again” single lanes to put in a bicycle path no-one uses.

thebrownstreak698:11 am 11 Sep 13

RB78 said :

magiccar9 said :

ThatGuy said :

Courtesy, courtesy is the key. Courteously keep left, courteously let cars that indicate into ‘your’ lane rather than speeding up in an arrogant flap.

Oh right, let in cars who indicate and try to get into a non-existent gap. I’ll continue to not let people in when it’s clearly on them to indicate and change lanes when a suitable gap is presented. No, this doesn’t mean making the other car slow down to make such a gap!

There does seem to be an awful lot of people who have a “I’m indicating, outta my way!” approach to changing lanes. Last I checked you’re meant to give way when merging/changing lanes, not just shove your way in and cause everyone else to hit the brakes.

No-one here is saying that.

JC said :

RB78 said :

There does seem to be an awful lot of people who have a “I’m indicating, outta my way!” approach to changing lanes. Last I checked you’re meant to give way when merging/changing lanes, not just shove your way in and cause everyone else to hit the brakes.

Happened to me yesterday outside the lakeside hotel. I was coming off Commonwealth Ave and a 4WD was coming along London CCT. The very moment the two lanes became side my side outside the hotel the 4WD indicated and started to move, never mind of course the front of my car was level with his back wheel. I slowed and gave a toot of the horn, he stopped coming across for a second, then sped up and pulled in front anyway, and for my efforts got given the bird. All he needed to do was actually look and pull in behind which would have been easy as he was going quite a bit slower than me anyway. But guess that would have meant he was one car behind at the lights.

Then to top it off once the lights changed the 4WD turned left and I continued on, but the car that was in the right hand lane at the lights more or less did the same thing. I gather he assumed I too was turning.

Not that I approve of barging in, but If that was me, I would have let him change lanes. It would be little skin off my nose, and traffic doesn’t need to slow a halt. Traffic moves, no one needs to stop, everyone wins. Or at least, no one loses completely.

I’d rather be effective than right, any day.

RB78 said :

There does seem to be an awful lot of people who have a “I’m indicating, outta my way!” approach to changing lanes. Last I checked you’re meant to give way when merging/changing lanes, not just shove your way in and cause everyone else to hit the brakes.

Happened to me yesterday outside the lakeside hotel. I was coming off Commonwealth Ave and a 4WD was coming along London CCT. The very moment the two lanes became side my side outside the hotel the 4WD indicated and started to move, never mind of course the front of my car was level with his back wheel. I slowed and gave a toot of the horn, he stopped coming across for a second, then sped up and pulled in front anyway, and for my efforts got given the bird. All he needed to do was actually look and pull in behind which would have been easy as he was going quite a bit slower than me anyway. But guess that would have meant he was one car behind at the lights.

Then to top it off once the lights changed the 4WD turned left and I continued on, but the car that was in the right hand lane at the lights more or less did the same thing. I gather he assumed I too was turning.

AmarooStu said :

So, ACT Traffic Police got a tweet from me…..their reply – they will take it into consideration as it is a Driver Education issue with regard to the Road Rule.

to give credit where credit is due, the inclusion of a small pamphlet from ACT Roads clarifying common road rules (indicating on roundabouts, fog lights, keeping left etc) with your registration renewal is a great idea. people often complain “back in my day, we didn’t have this rule”, so this is a great way to tackle it – assuming you read it of course. i just wish more states did it.

the “i’m going to turn right soon” excuse for staying in the right lane drives me insane though, particularly when people move to the right lane of the monaro highway after isabella drive, because they’re turning onto johnson drive in 4km time….granted, this in part comes back to people doing it on the basis of not being let in from the left lane when approaching the turn off..

magiccar9 said :

ThatGuy said :

Courtesy, courtesy is the key. Courteously keep left, courteously let cars that indicate into ‘your’ lane rather than speeding up in an arrogant flap.

Oh right, let in cars who indicate and try to get into a non-existent gap. I’ll continue to not let people in when it’s clearly on them to indicate and change lanes when a suitable gap is presented. No, this doesn’t mean making the other car slow down to make such a gap!

There does seem to be an awful lot of people who have a “I’m indicating, outta my way!” approach to changing lanes. Last I checked you’re meant to give way when merging/changing lanes, not just shove your way in and cause everyone else to hit the brakes.

Postalgeek said :

JimmyJimBob said :

magiccar9 said :

ThatGuy said :

Courtesy, courtesy is the key. Courteously keep left, courteously let cars that indicate into ‘your’ lane rather than speeding up in an arrogant flap.

Oh right, let in cars who indicate and try to get into a non-existent gap. I’ll continue to not let people in when it’s clearly on them to indicate and change lanes when a suitable gap is presented. No, this doesn’t mean making the other car slow down to make such a gap!

^ Everything wrong with driving in Canberra. ^

+1
Yep, total asshat logic.

So drivers who change lanes without adjusting speed to suit or waiting for a gap to be created are in the wrong but drivers who barge their way in to traffic from a merge lane, sometimes even without indicating, have right of way?

It is courteous to always make way for other road users, especially when their intentions are made clear by indicating, but it is irritating when drivers barge in front of, or even beside, a car on the main road when they could just as easily have merged behind.

JC said :

Innovation said :

Mind you, I don’t think Canberra is any worse than elsewhere in the nation. For example, the F3 is a complete joke with all of the middle lane and right hand lane hogs. The resultant undertaking, on a three land road, is downright scary to watch and I’ve seen several near misses when two overtaking cars, on the left and right, then try to occupy the middle lane at the same time.

Whilst I agree with what your saying, driving in the middle lane on a 3 lane road is ok. If you ever look at the road rules for keep left unless overtaking it only talks about keeping out of the right lane, not driving in the left, so keeping left includes the middle lane.

You’re right. I haven’t checked. So does this mean that road signs instead should read “Stay out of the right lane unless overtaking”?

AmarooStu said :

I spoke with TAMS on this issue only last week….. in speaking with a Public Servant from the ACT Gummint [02 6207 5225], I was duly advised that it is up to ACT Policing to enforce this rule, not for TAMS to put up more signs.

So, ACT Traffic Police got a tweet from me…..their reply – they will take it into consideration as it is a Driver Education issue with regard to the Road Rule.

The issue I have with Gininderra Drive in particular is the fact that signs are only at each end. If the whole area is a keep left unless over taking zone the signs should be after every intersection and enforced, otherwise just remove the two signs and leave it as is.

Innovation said :

Mind you, I don’t think Canberra is any worse than elsewhere in the nation. For example, the F3 is a complete joke with all of the middle lane and right hand lane hogs. The resultant undertaking, on a three land road, is downright scary to watch and I’ve seen several near misses when two overtaking cars, on the left and right, then try to occupy the middle lane at the same time.

Whilst I agree with what your saying, driving in the middle lane on a 3 lane road is ok. If you ever look at the road rules for keep left unless overtaking it only talks about keeping out of the right lane, not driving in the left, so keeping left includes the middle lane.

JimmyJimBob said :

magiccar9 said :

ThatGuy said :

Courtesy, courtesy is the key. Courteously keep left, courteously let cars that indicate into ‘your’ lane rather than speeding up in an arrogant flap.

Oh right, let in cars who indicate and try to get into a non-existent gap. I’ll continue to not let people in when it’s clearly on them to indicate and change lanes when a suitable gap is presented. No, this doesn’t mean making the other car slow down to make such a gap!

^ Everything wrong with driving in Canberra. ^

+1 heaps. This sort of BS is a large part of the problem.

magiccar9 said :

ThatGuy said :

Courtesy, courtesy is the key. Courteously keep left, courteously let cars that indicate into ‘your’ lane rather than speeding up in an arrogant flap.

Oh right, let in cars who indicate and try to get into a non-existent gap. I’ll continue to not let people in when it’s clearly on them to indicate and change lanes when a suitable gap is presented. No, this doesn’t mean making the other car slow down to make such a gap!

[best Mythbusters voice]. Well there’s your problem! [end voice]

If there’s a nonexistent gap in front of you then your magic car must be tailgating.

JimmyJimBob said :

magiccar9 said :

ThatGuy said :

Courtesy, courtesy is the key. Courteously keep left, courteously let cars that indicate into ‘your’ lane rather than speeding up in an arrogant flap.

Oh right, let in cars who indicate and try to get into a non-existent gap. I’ll continue to not let people in when it’s clearly on them to indicate and change lanes when a suitable gap is presented. No, this doesn’t mean making the other car slow down to make such a gap!

^ Everything wrong with driving in Canberra. ^

+1
Yep, total asshat logic.

AmarooStu said :

I spoke with TAMS on this issue only last week….. in speaking with a Public Servant from the ACT Gummint [02 6207 5225], I was duly advised that it is up to ACT Policing to enforce this rule, not for TAMS to put up more signs.

So, ACT Traffic Police got a tweet from me…..their reply – they will take it into consideration as it is a Driver Education issue with regard to the Road Rule.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23713732

This is interesting. An answer to the people who drive discourteously but are not strictly lawbreaking, so use “it’s not illegal so i’ll do as i like” as the defence to driving like a moron.
Perhaps the police response here should be to issue on the spot fines as their way of driver education, because the stubborn buggers don’t seem to understand any sort of cajoling.

thebrownstreak693:43 pm 10 Sep 13

JimmyJimBob said :

magiccar9 said :

ThatGuy said :

Courtesy, courtesy is the key. Courteously keep left, courteously let cars that indicate into ‘your’ lane rather than speeding up in an arrogant flap.

Oh right, let in cars who indicate and try to get into a non-existent gap. I’ll continue to not let people in when it’s clearly on them to indicate and change lanes when a suitable gap is presented. No, this doesn’t mean making the other car slow down to make such a gap!

^ Everything wrong with driving in Canberra. ^

+1. It’s not a race.

JimmyJimBob said :

magiccar9 said :

ThatGuy said :

Courtesy, courtesy is the key. Courteously keep left, courteously let cars that indicate into ‘your’ lane rather than speeding up in an arrogant flap.

Oh right, let in cars who indicate and try to get into a non-existent gap. I’ll continue to not let people in when it’s clearly on them to indicate and change lanes when a suitable gap is presented. No, this doesn’t mean making the other car slow down to make such a gap!

^ Everything wrong with driving in Canberra. ^

+1 to Jimmy’s response

Yeah you kinda just proved my point. Not letting people in = people getting in the lane stupidly early to mitigate that exact mentality (90% of the time).

magiccar9 said :

ThatGuy said :

Courtesy, courtesy is the key. Courteously keep left, courteously let cars that indicate into ‘your’ lane rather than speeding up in an arrogant flap.

Oh right, let in cars who indicate and try to get into a non-existent gap. I’ll continue to not let people in when it’s clearly on them to indicate and change lanes when a suitable gap is presented. No, this doesn’t mean making the other car slow down to make such a gap!

^ Everything wrong with driving in Canberra. ^

ThatGuy said :

Courtesy, courtesy is the key. Courteously keep left, courteously let cars that indicate into ‘your’ lane rather than speeding up in an arrogant flap.

Oh right, let in cars who indicate and try to get into a non-existent gap. I’ll continue to not let people in when it’s clearly on them to indicate and change lanes when a suitable gap is presented. No, this doesn’t mean making the other car slow down to make such a gap!

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

p1 said :

Or, you know, people could keep left as a matter of courtesy whether it is legal or not.

How is it courteous to keep left?

It is, unless you don’t think about what you are doing. It’s downright hostile when the onramp is full and the right lane is empty.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

How is it courteous to keep left?

My reasoning:

1. Not everybody’s speedo reads the same. Just because you think you are doing “exactly” the speedlimit does not mean you are. And even if you are, it doesn’t mean I don’t also think I am doing the speedlimit.
2. In the event that two cars are doing the exactly the same speed, close to each other, having them in the same lane (by convention, the left) means that someone wishing to pass can do so, rather then having to follow for km after km while they sit side by side.
3. If every driver (not otherwise engaged in overtaking, preparing to turn, etc) occupied the same default road position it would make it easier to everyone else to predict there behaviour (thus making it safer, and making traffic flow more smoothly).

There are many reasons the above might not apply to you at any one moment, but there is also, during any one trip, a time when another road user in my vicinity sits in the right lane for no reason other than they want to. Sometimes it is a requirement of the road rules, other times not. I maintain that it is impolite.

I spoke with TAMS on this issue only last week….. in speaking with a Public Servant from the ACT Gummint [02 6207 5225], I was duly advised that it is up to ACT Policing to enforce this rule, not for TAMS to put up more signs.

So, ACT Traffic Police got a tweet from me…..their reply – they will take it into consideration as it is a Driver Education issue with regard to the Road Rule.

My theory is that in keeping left keep the right hand lane open increases the options for other drivers. In the event of a vehicle in front rapidly slowing down, drivers have the option of changing lanes, which isn’t an option if there’s a vehicle beside or just behind doing roughly the same speed for significant periods of time. If all they can do is also rapidly slow down, then there is a cluster of slow moving vehicles, which disrupts the flow of traffic. Laminar flow of water is more efficient than turbulent flow is my idea.

Of course, this theory is predicated on people being aware of the position and speed of other road users, so probably falls apart right there. I don’t care. I just think it works better to keep left, so I keep left. Rest of you arshhats can do what you want.

johnboy said :

#worstuseofhashtagsevah

I’m trying to update my image. Baby steps.

Yolo, crosffit, #thuglife.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd12:08 pm 10 Sep 13

p1 said :

Or, you know, people could keep left as a matter of courtesy whether it is legal or not.

How is it courteous to keep left?

wildturkeycanoe11:50 am 10 Sep 13

With the lack of police presence there is only one thing that we as a community can do to prevent this. Tailgate the driver in the right hand lane, flash headlights and repeatedly beep the horn. That’ll teach ’em.

Innovation said :

Mind you, I don’t think Canberra is any worse than elsewhere in the nation. For example, the F3 is a complete joke with all of the middle lane and right hand lane hogs. The resultant undertaking, on a three land road, is downright scary to watch and I’ve seen several near misses when two overtaking cars, on the left and right, then try to occupy the middle lane at the same time.

Then compare Canberra to Europe, where sitting in the left hand lane there is considered a greater offence than speeding itself. I had little issue with traffic flow on busy highways in Europe. Yes it stills happens, but its such a nice and more pleasant way to drive.

I see it all the time on the parkway, I overtake a car and then return to the left lane, then next car i want to overtake i look in the mirror then turn my head and there is some guy sitting in my blindspot doing about the same speed as me with no car in sight in the left hand lane.

Same with merging to form 1 lane. Instead of merging they sit as wide on the left or right as possible where the car in front can’t see them.

Keeping left only to have no-one let you in when you need to turn right is probably 90% of the problem.

Courtesy, courtesy is the key. Courteously keep left, courteously let cars that indicate into ‘your’ lane rather than speeding up in an arrogant flap.

Until all drivers up their courtesy levels we’re all doomed to the relative perils of Canberra driving.

#canberrliving #baddrivers #somecyclistreference

#worstuseofhashtagsevah

Innovation said :

…I’ve seen several near misses when two overtaking cars, on the left and right, then try to occupy the middle lane at the same time.

And did you beep them to warn them?

Yes it’s about courtesy (or lack thereof) which is probably a factor in the majority of road ‘issues’ in Australia. Merging, blocking intersections even road rage would all be better with a bit of consideration for other drivers.

There’s also the safety aspect too – as per this analysis – http://blog.privatefleet.com.au/home/keeping-left-unless-overtaking-part-2/

Driving in Europe, not keeping left is just not tolerated.

Mind you, I don’t think Canberra is any worse than elsewhere in the nation. For example, the F3 is a complete joke with all of the middle lane and right hand lane hogs. The resultant undertaking, on a three land road, is downright scary to watch and I’ve seen several near misses when two overtaking cars, on the left and right, then try to occupy the middle lane at the same time.

Woody Mann-Caruso11:37 am 10 Sep 13

Or, you know, people could keep left as a matter of courtesy whether it is legal or not.

Setting aside that your attempt to handwave the law is laughable:

Not speeding? You won’t care if I’m in the right lane.
Speeding? I don’t care what you think.

Unless we get an increased police presence on the roads and regular retesting nothing is ever going to happen to fix these poor driving practices. Both of these improved (extra) services could be paid for by increasing on road fines.

thebrownstreak6911:33 am 10 Sep 13

p1 said :

Or, you know, people could keep left as a matter of courtesy whether it is legal or not.

In Canberra? Really?

pptvb said :

p1 said :

Or, you know, people could keep left as a matter of courtesy whether it is legal or not.

But, if you’re turning right into Dunlop, don’t you have to get into the right hand lane at Lyneham?

It’s the same as all the dickheads who get into the right hand lane after Jerrabomberra Ave, on Hindmarsh Dr. They have to turn right at Woden, or the hospital, or Duffy….
The REALLY special ones immediately jump into the RHL, then force their way into the left to turn up Yamba Dr.
Every day…same thing.

10 kph under the limit.

p1 said :

Or, you know, people could keep left as a matter of courtesy whether it is legal or not.

+1000000

p1 said :

Or, you know, people could keep left as a matter of courtesy whether it is legal or not.

But, if you’re turning right into Dunlop, don’t you have to get into the right hand lane at Lyneham?

It’s the same as all the dickheads who get into the right hand lane after Jerrabomberra Ave, on Hindmarsh Dr. They have to turn right at Woden, or the hospital, or Duffy….
The REALLY special ones immediately jump into the RHL, then force their way into the left to turn up Yamba Dr.
Every day…same thing.

Or, you know, people could keep left as a matter of courtesy whether it is legal or not.

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