11 April 2013

Kings Highway closures mooted

| johnboy
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rockfall

The ABC reports that the NSW Government is planning to shut down the Kings Highway from tuesday to thursday for weeks in May to make Poo Corner safer after the April rockslide last year:

Work to help prevent landslides along the highway is expected to cause a major disruption to traffic.

The Government says it is flexible in when the work starts and will accept feedback on the dates.

But the closures are planned over five weeks from May, and will close the road around the Clyde Mountain from 7:30am on Tuesdays until 5:00pm on Thursdays.

The Government says it has considered other options but the location and work required make it impossible to continue letting traffic through.

We’re hearing whining from Eurobodalla but I think we’d all rather the work got done than not.

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damien haas said :

There’s a great dirt road between Bathurst and Goulburn. Try doing it on a wet day in a manual, rear wheel drive V8. It was an exciting few hours!

No dirt these days or perhaps you know something I don’t…?

There’s a great dirt road between Bathurst and Goulburn. Try doing it on a wet day in a manual, rear wheel drive V8. It was an exciting few hours!

460cixy said :

So you can’t drive a 2wd car on gravel you can’t drive your 4wd on gravel with out it being in 4wd and you seem to have a problem with land rover defenders. Weekend worriers like you should stay at home

If you can direct me to lessons on driving on dirt roads, I’m happy to work on item 1. There are no dirt roads in Ireland but then again not many people taking driving lessons in Australia get experience on dirt roads either.
Item 2 – didn’t say can’t, said don’t. Why would I forgo extra grip? Most so-called AWD cars switch into 4wd when needed, so I’m just doing it manually cos the Troopy doesn’t do it automatically.
Item 3 – I have a problem with ANYONE pulling out in front of me, regardless of the make and model of vehicle they are driving. I expect a cyclist or motorbike wouldn’t have done it, hence the comment about the make and model – a aprticularly tough vehicle, so perhaps the driver felt bulletproof. I didn’t see the plates, but didn’t recognise the car as local, so I suspect they were ACT plates.
Item 4 – I’m driving on dirt roads in my neighbourhood, that I pay rates for. Perhaps it is the ACT-plated overconfident heroes who should stay home.

Here endeth the ranty lesson.

IP

Masquara, you do not know what you are talking about re unsealed roads and modern cars. Firstly, to assume every road is well maintained from one end to the other is not correct. But moving on, suggest you have a good look at your manual re extra servicing required after use in dusty conditions. Also, think under body damage such as little stones hitting the exhaust (done that to a Golf) , put a piece of wood through a sidewall (Golf again) sump damage (done that to a Magna), radiator damage (Magna again), deterioration of CV joint boots (Corolla) and just the extra cleaning to get the fine talc dust away from the various joints in the car.

Also consider the low clearance of lots of the cars now, combined with how confused ABS and ESP get on unsealed surfaces.

Back when we drove Holdens etc, dirt roads where fun if you knew what you were doing. If you didn’t know, you soon learnt. I drove the back road through Oberon in a HK Premier a few times – now that was a car for unsealed roads!

460cixy said :

IrishPete said :

Masquara said :

Look what near-universal 4WD ownership has done to us! Any little car can happily drive up from Moruya via Araluen on the dirt road, including when it’s raining. No issues whatsoever provided you drive to the conditions.

Agreed, but the issue is when there’s one coming the other way too. I took my front-wheel drive 2wd car on dirt road in the same region yesterday and had two near misses with other vehicles: one tried to pull out in front of me from a side road, studiously staring in the other direction – being in a Landrover Defender he probably thought he was bullet proof. Another was a 4wd with wide trailer closely following another vehicle in its dust cloud, no headlights so basically invible, and well onto my side of the road.

In both incidents, the driver was treating the roads as if there is never any other traffic – true 99% of the time, but dangerous when you get it wrong. Being in a fwd 2wd it was difficult to keep control while taking evasive action.

When the Kings Highway was closed in January, for several hours initially people “self-detoured” onto these dirt roads, including coaches and trucks with trailers in BOTH directions. Gawd only knows how there were no head-on collisions, as there simply isn’t enough room in many places for these vehicles to pass each other.

When on dirt roads in my 4wd I engaged 4wd for extra grip. And I always drive with headlights on (on any road, at any time). Every little helps when road conditions can change so much and with no warning.

Majors Creek Mountain Road is another story altogether, but hopefully no-one will use it as their detour in May/June.

IP

So you can’t drive a 2wd car on gravel you can’t drive your 4wd on gravel with out it being in 4wd and you seem to have a problem with land rover defenders. Weekend worriers like you should stay at home

I dont know. He doesnt seem that worried.

thebrownstreak691:09 pm 15 Apr 13

Felix the Cat said :

Datsun 180B weight 1000kg
VB Commodore 1,158 kg (2,553 lb) – 1,348 kg (2,972 lb) (assuming these differences are the V8 vs 6cyl models)
HQ Holden 2,950 lbs (Kingswood Sedan)
2012 Holden Barina 5D HATCHBACK 1,256 kg
2012 VE Commodore Omega V6 Automatic: 1,690 kg
2012 FOCUS HATCHBACK 2.0 TDCi 163 Zetec S 5dr 1,421 kg

Exactly. A 30 year old commodore is lighter than a new corolla! I’d much rather drive the new corolla on a dirt road though – the handling and braking are both vastly superior.

Felix the Cat11:56 am 15 Apr 13

Datsun 180B weight 1000kg
VB Commodore 1,158 kg (2,553 lb) – 1,348 kg (2,972 lb) (assuming these differences are the V8 vs 6cyl models)
HQ Holden 2,950 lbs (Kingswood Sedan)
2012 Holden Barina 5D HATCHBACK 1,256 kg
2012 VE Commodore Omega V6 Automatic: 1,690 kg
2012 FOCUS HATCHBACK 2.0 TDCi 163 Zetec S 5dr 1,421 kg

IrishPete said :

Masquara said :

Look what near-universal 4WD ownership has done to us! Any little car can happily drive up from Moruya via Araluen on the dirt road, including when it’s raining. No issues whatsoever provided you drive to the conditions.

Agreed, but the issue is when there’s one coming the other way too. I took my front-wheel drive 2wd car on dirt road in the same region yesterday and had two near misses with other vehicles: one tried to pull out in front of me from a side road, studiously staring in the other direction – being in a Landrover Defender he probably thought he was bullet proof. Another was a 4wd with wide trailer closely following another vehicle in its dust cloud, no headlights so basically invible, and well onto my side of the road.

In both incidents, the driver was treating the roads as if there is never any other traffic – true 99% of the time, but dangerous when you get it wrong. Being in a fwd 2wd it was difficult to keep control while taking evasive action.

When the Kings Highway was closed in January, for several hours initially people “self-detoured” onto these dirt roads, including coaches and trucks with trailers in BOTH directions. Gawd only knows how there were no head-on collisions, as there simply isn’t enough room in many places for these vehicles to pass each other.

When on dirt roads in my 4wd I engaged 4wd for extra grip. And I always drive with headlights on (on any road, at any time). Every little helps when road conditions can change so much and with no warning.

Majors Creek Mountain Road is another story altogether, but hopefully no-one will use it as their detour in May/June.

IP

So you can’t drive a 2wd car on gravel you can’t drive your 4wd on gravel with out it being in 4wd and you seem to have a problem with land rover defenders. Weekend worriers like you should stay at home

thebrownstreak698:12 am 15 Apr 13

IrishPete said :

milkman said :

bigred said :

well I flatly refuse to take my modern 2wd cars away from sealed roads for a whole lot of upkeep issues. They just are not made for it at all.

Utter crap. Cars today are far better built than 30 years ago, and back then a number of major outback routes were still unsealed, and 4WDs were still rare.

Drive sensibly and it’s no different to driving on sealed roads.

It may be more to do with the types of cars bought these days, and therefore the range of skills tht drivers learn behind the wheel – relatively small light front wheel drive automatics nowadays compared with large heavy rear wheel drive automatics and manuals 30 years ago. I’m not sure that anti lock brakes and traction control are ideal for dirt roads either. In my experience, probably not much beats a Falcon or Commodore on a dirt road. But I can’t have every kind of car in my fleet, and given the choice between driving my fwd 2wd and my 4wd I’ll drive the latter.

IP

Just for fun, do some googling and find out how much the ‘big heavy’ cars of 30 years ago actually weighed, versus the ‘small and light’ cars of today.

milkman said :

bigred said :

well I flatly refuse to take my modern 2wd cars away from sealed roads for a whole lot of upkeep issues. They just are not made for it at all.

Utter crap. Cars today are far better built than 30 years ago, and back then a number of major outback routes were still unsealed, and 4WDs were still rare.

Drive sensibly and it’s no different to driving on sealed roads.

It may be more to do with the types of cars bought these days, and therefore the range of skills tht drivers learn behind the wheel – relatively small light front wheel drive automatics nowadays compared with large heavy rear wheel drive automatics and manuals 30 years ago. I’m not sure that anti lock brakes and traction control are ideal for dirt roads either. In my experience, probably not much beats a Falcon or Commodore on a dirt road. But I can’t have every kind of car in my fleet, and given the choice between driving my fwd 2wd and my 4wd I’ll drive the latter.

IP

bigred said :

well I flatly refuse to take my modern 2wd cars away from sealed roads for a whole lot of upkeep issues. They just are not made for it at all.

Utter crap. Cars today are far better built than 30 years ago, and back then a number of major outback routes were still unsealed, and 4WDs were still rare.

Drive sensibly and it’s no different to driving on sealed roads.

bigred said :

well I flatly refuse to take my modern 2wd cars away from sealed roads for a whole lot of upkeep issues. They just are not made for it at all.

Don’t assume SUVs are significantly different. Ford Territory started out using the Falcon platform, RAV 4 was on a Corolla platform for at least two generations.

bigred said :

well I flatly refuse to take my modern 2wd cars away from sealed roads for a whole lot of upkeep issues. They just are not made for it at all.

Huh? A well maintained unsealed road presents no issues whatsoever for a 2WD. You are talking through that no-cattle hat!

well I flatly refuse to take my modern 2wd cars away from sealed roads for a whole lot of upkeep issues. They just are not made for it at all.

Mr Evil said :

Will cyclists still be able to use the road during the times it is closed?

Only if they’re riding mountain bikes!

m_ratt said :

IrishPete said :

Being in a fwd 2wd it was difficult to keep control while taking evasive action.

If you experienced this then _you_ were the driver not driving to the prevailing conditions (including the limitations of your own vehicle).

Correct, I was driving a front wheel drive car on a dirt road with loose material banked up on each side. I should have been driving my 4wd in 4wd, so I could stay in control even when forced into the pile of loose stuff. Oh hang on, I’ve been criticised for driving my 4wd in 4wd on a dirt road too. I should have stayed home.

Alternatively, I have a right to expect not have to take evasive manouevres. If someone pulls out in front of you and you crash into them, does that mean you were driving too fast? I’ll answer it for you – no. To avoid that scenario you’d have to be driving very very slowly.

Really, though, I’d love to take some dirt road driving lessons, but haven’t neen able to find any (except driving rally lessons, which probably is a bit more than I need).

IP

Will cyclists still be able to use the road during the times it is closed?

Instant Mash said :

Is there really much else they can do?

Well we could build the Kings highway Viaduct
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millau_Viaduct

Haha like the one the French built only bigger and longer straight line across the steep valleys from the top of the range down to the bay. Would be cheaper then VFT and take probably less the 40 years to build.

IrishPete said :

Being in a fwd 2wd it was difficult to keep control while taking evasive action.

If you experienced this then _you_ were the driver not driving to the prevailing conditions (including the limitations of your own vehicle).

screaming banshee10:03 am 14 Apr 13

IrishPete said :

Masquara said :

Look what near-universal 4WD ownership has done to us! Any little car can happily drive up from Moruya via Araluen on the dirt road, including when it’s raining. No issues whatsoever provided you drive to the conditions.

Agreed, but the issue is when there’s one coming the other way too. I took my front-wheel drive 2wd car on dirt road in the same region yesterday and had two near misses with other vehicles: one tried to pull out in front of me from a side road, studiously staring in the other direction – being in a Landrover Defender he probably thought he was bullet proof. Another was a 4wd with wide trailer closely following another vehicle in its dust cloud, no headlights so basically invible, and well onto my side of the road.

In both incidents, the driver was treating the roads as if there is never any other traffic – true 99% of the time, but dangerous when you get it wrong. Being in a fwd 2wd it was difficult to keep control while taking evasive action.

When the Kings Highway was closed in January, for several hours initially people “self-detoured” onto these dirt roads, including coaches and trucks with trailers in BOTH directions. Gawd only knows how there were no head-on collisions, as there simply isn’t enough room in many places for these vehicles to pass each other.

When on dirt roads in my 4wd I engaged 4wd for extra grip. And I always drive with headlights on (on any road, at any time). Every little helps when road conditions can change so much and with no warning.

Majors Creek Mountain Road is another story altogether, but hopefully no-one will use it as their detour in May/June.

IP

You’re right, your top heavy 4wd is a much better option for taking evasive manoeuvres. And it’s a good thing you were able to put it into 4wd otherwise you might not have been able to chew up the road as much as the other soccer mums.

Masquara said :

Look what near-universal 4WD ownership has done to us! Any little car can happily drive up from Moruya via Araluen on the dirt road, including when it’s raining. No issues whatsoever provided you drive to the conditions.

Agreed, but the issue is when there’s one coming the other way too. I took my front-wheel drive 2wd car on dirt road in the same region yesterday and had two near misses with other vehicles: one tried to pull out in front of me from a side road, studiously staring in the other direction – being in a Landrover Defender he probably thought he was bullet proof. Another was a 4wd with wide trailer closely following another vehicle in its dust cloud, no headlights so basically invible, and well onto my side of the road.

In both incidents, the driver was treating the roads as if there is never any other traffic – true 99% of the time, but dangerous when you get it wrong. Being in a fwd 2wd it was difficult to keep control while taking evasive action.

When the Kings Highway was closed in January, for several hours initially people “self-detoured” onto these dirt roads, including coaches and trucks with trailers in BOTH directions. Gawd only knows how there were no head-on collisions, as there simply isn’t enough room in many places for these vehicles to pass each other.

When on dirt roads in my 4wd I engaged 4wd for extra grip. And I always drive with headlights on (on any road, at any time). Every little helps when road conditions can change so much and with no warning.

Majors Creek Mountain Road is another story altogether, but hopefully no-one will use it as their detour in May/June.

IP

I’m sure it won’t effect most of us – who goes down the coast in the cold on Tues-Thurs?

Masquara said :

IrishPete said :

Araluen Road I would not recommend for anyone other than very confident dirt road drivers; given the quality of driving on the Kings Highway, I wouldn’t be wanting those people using Araluen Road. Also very sticky and slippery in the wet. Caravans are not recommended for that road.

IP

Now I know this really hurts…….but I agree with Masquara…….even in the wet the road to Araluen from Mouroya is passable with a normal car.

In fact I recommend it…….the low lying cloud & fog are a delight……

Look what near-universal 4WD ownership has done to us! Any little car can happily drive up from Moruya via Araluen on the dirt road, including when it’s raining. No issues whatsoever provided you drive to the conditions.

IrishPete said :

Araluen Road I would not recommend for anyone other than very confident dirt road drivers; given the quality of driving on the Kings Highway, I wouldn’t be wanting those people using Araluen Road. Also very sticky and slippery in the wet. Caravans are not recommended for that road.

IP

Look what near-universal 4WD ownership has done to us! Any little car can happily drive up from Moruya via Araluen on the dirt road, including when it’s raining. No issues whatsoever provided you drive to the conditions.

Instant Mash said :

Is there really much else they can do?

Probably not.

Most should get used to the reality that the world is not, and can never be, perfect.

Instant Mash2:03 pm 13 Apr 13

Is there really much else they can do?

dtc said :

Can anyone come up with a cheap tunnel blaster in the near future (maybe borrow that one from Switzerland) so we can just put a tunnel or two through the mountain

Take the Kariong exit off the F3 down to Gosford to see the flavour of what could reasonably be done, were the funding available (considering that the money apparently isn’t even there to replace the Nelligen bridge, it obviously isn’t).

Pork Hunt said :

MissChief said :

Ah yes, poo corner. My sister recently told me the teddies are left there as soft fluffy toilet paper. How thoughtful of people.

What about the ones nailed to trees on the highway? Can’t wipe your butt/buttress on those…

Yes but that’s not poo poo corner.

MrLinus said :

Alderney said :

dtc said :

goggles13 said :

work has to be done, but good information needs to be provided on alternative routes to the coast that suit the majority of people who use the road

Nerriga if you are going north of BB (or Kangaroo Valley for a slightly longer trip)

Brown mountain if going south (? not sure how well it has been fixed up since its last set of problems – but its the only route anyway)

Can anyone come up with a cheap tunnel blaster in the near future (maybe borrow that one from Switzerland) so we can just put a tunnel or two through the mountain

Bateman’s Bay is sooo passé. If I wanted to go to an overcrowded seaside I’d go back to the Northern Beaches of Sydney. Honestly, BB is like being by the seaside in China for a day; too many people.

Merimbula on the other hand is still a lovely village unspoilt by the teaming hordes.

I see a flaw in your tunnel plan insofar as it’s less mountain and more escarpment. A tunnel, unless angled at an upwards elevation, will just end up allowing one access to the subterranean.

Brown Mountain is a terrible way to go, shocking road, takes too long. Full of terrible drivers who can’t drive to the conditions and just plain dangerous. I’d stay off it if I were you. 😉

OK so good to know, will avoid Merimbula as a holiday destination from now on as it appears to be full of pretentious know it alls.

I’m glad I won’t be running in to you down there. I’d hate to holiday with a humourless prat.

Alderney said :

dtc said :

goggles13 said :

work has to be done, but good information needs to be provided on alternative routes to the coast that suit the majority of people who use the road

Nerriga if you are going north of BB (or Kangaroo Valley for a slightly longer trip)

Brown mountain if going south (? not sure how well it has been fixed up since its last set of problems – but its the only route anyway)

Can anyone come up with a cheap tunnel blaster in the near future (maybe borrow that one from Switzerland) so we can just put a tunnel or two through the mountain

Bateman’s Bay is sooo passé. If I wanted to go to an overcrowded seaside I’d go back to the Northern Beaches of Sydney. Honestly, BB is like being by the seaside in China for a day; too many people.

Merimbula on the other hand is still a lovely village unspoilt by the teaming hordes.

I see a flaw in your tunnel plan insofar as it’s less mountain and more escarpment. A tunnel, unless angled at an upwards elevation, will just end up allowing one access to the subterranean.

Brown Mountain is a terrible way to go, shocking road, takes too long. Full of terrible drivers who can’t drive to the conditions and just plain dangerous. I’d stay off it if I were you. 😉

OK so good to know, will avoid Merimbula as a holiday destination from now on as it appears to be full of pretentious know it alls.

Probably add, for those that havent driven it, that if you go via Neriga to the Jervis Bay turnoff (taking Turpentine Road at the end), its about 2hrs 30 minutes, give or take. From there its just under an hour to BB.

thebrownstreak691:21 pm 12 Apr 13

IrishPete said :

Nerriga Road has two options, depending on how comfortable you are on dirt road:

from King’s Highway at Braidwood, 14km of the road between Braidwood and Nerriga is unsealed. Turpentine Road at the other end is also mostly unsealed but if going all the way to Nowra I think that’s all sealed.

Or from Bungendore through Tarago and on to Oallen Ford Road with just a couple of km of dirt but not a great choice in wet weather http://www.braidwoodtimes.com.au/story/1321979/oallen-ford-rescue/ Currently some big road works going on the dirt road near Oallen Ford and there’s a new bridge going to be built there soon, so let’s hope none of that coincides with the King’s Highway closures. Current bridge only rated for 5 tonnes, so no trucks or big caravans and camper vans. The van and caravan pictured in the link above may have been pushing the weight limit… Also that way is not well signposted, so plan it carefully, or use a trustworthy satellite navigation gadget.

Araluen Road I would not recommend for anyone other than very confident dirt road drivers; given the quality of driving on the Kings Highway, I wouldn’t be wanting those people using Araluen Road. Also very sticky and slippery in the wet. Caravans are not recommended for that road.

IP

Good advice, this.

Nerriga Road has two options, depending on how comfortable you are on dirt road:

from King’s Highway at Braidwood, 14km of the road between Braidwood and Nerriga is unsealed. Turpentine Road at the other end is also mostly unsealed but if going all the way to Nowra I think that’s all sealed.

Or from Bungendore through Tarago and on to Oallen Ford Road with just a couple of km of dirt but not a great choice in wet weather http://www.braidwoodtimes.com.au/story/1321979/oallen-ford-rescue/ Currently some big road works going on the dirt road near Oallen Ford and there’s a new bridge going to be built there soon, so let’s hope none of that coincides with the King’s Highway closures. Current bridge only rated for 5 tonnes, so no trucks or big caravans and camper vans. The van and caravan pictured in the link above may have been pushing the weight limit… Also that way is not well signposted, so plan it carefully, or use a trustworthy satellite navigation gadget.

Araluen Road I would not recommend for anyone other than very confident dirt road drivers; given the quality of driving on the Kings Highway, I wouldn’t be wanting those people using Araluen Road. Also very sticky and slippery in the wet. Caravans are not recommended for that road.

IP

dtc said :

goggles13 said :

work has to be done, but good information needs to be provided on alternative routes to the coast that suit the majority of people who use the road

Nerriga if you are going north of BB (or Kangaroo Valley for a slightly longer trip)

Brown mountain if going south (? not sure how well it has been fixed up since its last set of problems – but its the only route anyway)

Can anyone come up with a cheap tunnel blaster in the near future (maybe borrow that one from Switzerland) so we can just put a tunnel or two through the mountain

Forget Brown mountain, just go via either Nerriga Road or Araluen. Both bring you back to Braidwood anyway. Both are easily traversable in a 2WD hatch or sedan.

dtc said :

Can anyone come up with a cheap tunnel blaster in the near future (maybe borrow that one from Switzerland) so we can just put a tunnel or two through the mountain

That would take half the fun out of driving to the coast. Nothing like the dark, damp, fresh feeling of driving down the Clyde with the window rolled down. That is, until you come across a semi or a caravan….

There will always be kangaroo valley

dtc said :

goggles13 said :

work has to be done, but good information needs to be provided on alternative routes to the coast that suit the majority of people who use the road

Nerriga if you are going north of BB (or Kangaroo Valley for a slightly longer trip)

Brown mountain if going south (? not sure how well it has been fixed up since its last set of problems – but its the only route anyway)

Can anyone come up with a cheap tunnel blaster in the near future (maybe borrow that one from Switzerland) so we can just put a tunnel or two through the mountain

Bateman’s Bay is sooo passé. If I wanted to go to an overcrowded seaside I’d go back to the Northern Beaches of Sydney. Honestly, BB is like being by the seaside in China for a day; too many people.

Merimbula on the other hand is still a lovely village unspoilt by the teaming hordes.

I see a flaw in your tunnel plan insofar as it’s less mountain and more escarpment. A tunnel, unless angled at an upwards elevation, will just end up allowing one access to the subterranean.

Brown Mountain is a terrible way to go, shocking road, takes too long. Full of terrible drivers who can’t drive to the conditions and just plain dangerous. I’d stay off it if I were you. 😉

dtc said :

Can anyone come up with a cheap tunnel blaster in the near future (maybe borrow that one from Switzerland) so we can just put a tunnel or two through the mountain

This!

Love tunnels.

goggles13 said :

work has to be done, but good information needs to be provided on alternative routes to the coast that suit the majority of people who use the road

Nerriga if you are going north of BB (or Kangaroo Valley for a slightly longer trip)

Brown mountain if going south (? not sure how well it has been fixed up since its last set of problems – but its the only route anyway)

Can anyone come up with a cheap tunnel blaster in the near future (maybe borrow that one from Switzerland) so we can just put a tunnel or two through the mountain

MissChief said :

Ah yes, poo corner. My sister recently told me the teddies are left there as soft fluffy toilet paper. How thoughtful of people.

What about the ones nailed to trees on the highway? Can’t wipe your butt/buttress on those…

Ah yes, poo corner. My sister recently told me the teddies are left there as soft fluffy toilet paper. How thoughtful of people.

work has to be done, but good information needs to be provided on alternative routes to the coast that suit the majority of people who use the road

I agree it’s got to be done and May is a relatively quiet time so why not.Beats having a landslide during holiday season.

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