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Legalise It?

loubird22 16 October 2010 39

As a US citizen, I maintain voting rights even while living here in Australia. Midterm elections are in November and one of the big items on the California ballot is the legalisation of marijuana for anyone over 21, no medical script needed. I am sure you can imagine the intense campaigns happening on both sides of the issue.

I am interested to hear what some of your opinions are on this if that were to happen here. Would you support a medical marijuana scheme, full legalisation, etc?

Weed

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Legalise It?
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Pommy bastard 9:56 am 17 Oct 10

Spideydog said :

I see what you are saying however, with increased use I see increased strain on the already shambles mental health system….

Reasonable point, but seeing as 70% of the people who come to the attention of mental health services have used drugs of one form or another in the past month, I don’t think there will be a huge increase.

There is an argument to be made that people with mental health problems look to drugs, esp cannabis, to self medicate befoire seeking psychiatric help.

Again, seeing as prohibition has markedly failed since its inception, and is failing more and more as the years pass, what is the advantage of criminalisng drug users?

Why waste the time and money of police, courts, legal sectors, health and social services, prosecuting Joe Soap, who has the cannabis equivalent of one midi of beer in his pocket, and has harmed no one?

Money saved could be plowed into heath awareness campaigns. This would have two main effects;

1) People would be better informed so as to make choices. (If they chose to use, then they cannot deny they were aware of potential risks.)
2) Anyone experiencing possible mental health problems following drug use would be more likely to seek help, as the stigma of criminalisation would be removed. (The earlier the metal health intervention starts, the more efficacious it is.)

Spideydog said :

Just have a look at the effect alcohol has on Policing/health system and the community as a whole, do we want to add to this by allowing open uninhibited drug use ???

Where would the increase come from? Do you really think legalising drugs would make those current users, who enjoy their spliff or whatever, go out and commit crime. Over 30% of the Australian public has tried drugs of one form or another during their life. Are the other 70% just criminals waiting for the excuse of getting their hands on legal drugs? (Or are they the sort of people who wouldn’t touch drugs with a barge pole if they were legal or not?)

The main problem with the criminalisation of drugs, is that it CREATES criminals, most of whom are responsible for “victimless crimes.”

Spideydog said :

People that say that Cannabis, ecstasy or LSD use is safer than “table salt” is deluding themselves.

Agreed.

Skidd Marx 8:41 am 17 Oct 10

vandam said :

Pommy bastard said :

georgesgenitals said :

Why legalise it? What’s the benefit – other than possible taxation?

Less police time wasted, fewer otherwise law abiding people criminalised, less money in the hands of drug dealers, less turf wars over dealings, less court time wated, less legal burden on the state, more happy people.

In fact, I cannot think of a positive for the current situation.

Whoa……hang on there on the less police time wasted.

Since we’re comparing alcohol with cannabis, look at how much time and Police resources are spent dealing with people under the influence of alcohol. Drunken behaviour/fights/domestic violence/murders/sexual assaults/property damage/drink driving.

It’s not as simple as just taxing it. Think about the bigger picture. Whilst under the influence of the drug, Police are still going to have to deal with the above situations, only on a much bigger scale because, naturally once you legalise something, everyone wants to try it.

Simply, take our current alcohol problems/issues and double it with the legalisation of Cannabis. Do we want that sort of society?

That is such a ridiculously weak and ignorant argument I don’t even know where to start. On the other hand, a decent trolling effort.

Spideydog 8:34 am 17 Oct 10

vandam said :

Pommy bastard said :

georgesgenitals said :

Why legalise it? What’s the benefit – other than possible taxation?

Less police time wasted, fewer otherwise law abiding people criminalised, less money in the hands of drug dealers, less turf wars over dealings, less court time wated, less legal burden on the state, more happy people.

In fact, I cannot think of a positive for the current situation.

Whoa……hang on there on the less police time wasted.

Since we’re comparing alcohol with cannabis, look at how much time and Police resources are spent dealing with people under the influence of alcohol. Drunken behaviour/fights/domestic violence/murders/sexual assaults/property damage/drink driving.

It’s not as simple as just taxing it. Think about the bigger picture. Whilst under the influence of the drug, Police are still going to have to deal with the above situations, only on a much bigger scale because, naturally once you legalise something, everyone wants to try it.

Simply, take our current alcohol problems/issues and double it with the legalisation of Cannabis. Do we want that sort of society?

Exactly, get rid of one problem (Police efforts to minimise drug use and/or proliferation in the community) to have another rise and take it’s place (behaviour and health problems of more people on drugs), except the ramifications are far worse in my opinion.

vandam 9:20 pm 16 Oct 10

Pommy bastard said :

georgesgenitals said :

Why legalise it? What’s the benefit – other than possible taxation?

Less police time wasted, fewer otherwise law abiding people criminalised, less money in the hands of drug dealers, less turf wars over dealings, less court time wated, less legal burden on the state, more happy people.

In fact, I cannot think of a positive for the current situation.

Whoa……hang on there on the less police time wasted.

Since we’re comparing alcohol with cannabis, look at how much time and Police resources are spent dealing with people under the influence of alcohol. Drunken behaviour/fights/domestic violence/murders/sexual assaults/property damage/drink driving.

It’s not as simple as just taxing it. Think about the bigger picture. Whilst under the influence of the drug, Police are still going to have to deal with the above situations, only on a much bigger scale because, naturally once you legalise something, everyone wants to try it.

Simply, take our current alcohol problems/issues and double it with the legalisation of Cannabis. Do we want that sort of society?

georgesgenitals 9:01 pm 16 Oct 10

Pommy bastard said :

georgesgenitals said :

Why legalise it? What’s the benefit – other than possible taxation?

Less police time wasted, fewer otherwise law abiding people criminalised, less money in the hands of drug dealers, less turf wars over dealings, less court time wated, less legal burden on the state, more happy people.

In fact, I cannot think of a positive for the current situation.

Fair enough. I’ve never had anything to do with it, and don’t know much about it. The question was serious – thanks for the response.

astrojax 8:02 pm 16 Oct 10

so, which way you gone vote, loubird??

Spideydog 7:23 pm 16 Oct 10

Pommy bastard said :

georgesgenitals said :

Why legalise it? What’s the benefit – other than possible taxation?

Less police time wasted, fewer otherwise law abiding people criminalised, less money in the hands of drug dealers, less turf wars over dealings, less court time wated, less legal burden on the state, more happy people.

In fact, I cannot think of a positive for the current situation.

I see what you are saying however, with increased use I see increased strain on the already shambles mental health system…. which in turn puts the same but opposite pressure back on the Police and health system who have to deal with the fallout of drug use and abuse … psychosis and the behaviour of people whilst under the influence of these drugs, not including the health issues that arise. Just have a look at the effect alcohol has on Policing/health system and the community as a whole, do we want to add to this by allowing open uninhibited drug use ???

People that say that Cannabis, ecstasy or LSD use is safer than “table salt” is deluding themselves.

Beserk Keyboard Warrior 7:22 pm 16 Oct 10

The fact that marijuana is illegal is the biggest running joke in civilised society today.

MrPC 7:05 pm 16 Oct 10

Prohibition is an expensive and largely pointless exercise.

If you don’t like drugs, don’t use them, but you shouldn’t have the right to tell other people what they can and can’t do in their own homes.

Pommy bastard 4:02 pm 16 Oct 10

georgesgenitals said :

Why legalise it? What’s the benefit – other than possible taxation?

Less police time wasted, fewer otherwise law abiding people criminalised, less money in the hands of drug dealers, less turf wars over dealings, less court time wated, less legal burden on the state, more happy people.

In fact, I cannot think of a positive for the current situation.

georgesgenitals 3:28 pm 16 Oct 10

Why legalise it? What’s the benefit – other than possible taxation?

Pommy bastard 3:06 pm 16 Oct 10

GregW said :

I would not call it a huge risk, it was only a few years ago that any statistically significant effect was shown at all.

Wrong I’m afraid, to a person with a predisposition to psychosis, cannabis proves huge risk.

Use of Cannabis can cause a condition called drug-induced psychosis. This usually passes after a few days. However, if someone has a predisposition to a psychotic illness such as schizophrenia, cannabis may trigger the first episode of an ongoing condition such as schizophrenia. There is increasing evidence that regular cannabis use precedes and even causes higher rates of psychotic illness. At the same time, many people with schizophrenia have not used cannabis.

http://www.sane.org/information/factsheets-podcasts/547-cannabis-and-psychotic-illness

davesact 3:01 pm 16 Oct 10

Pommy bastard said :

Well, davesact, that situation, differs as they are two different substances with different effects on different people, and have different legal status.

Having said all that, if I had said they were in any way comparable, such as legally, in medical effect, or in their epidemiology, you may have a point. If I had made a comparison, or stated that the legal or moral status of one was in someway indicative of or analogous to, or in some way reflected or effected the status of the other, there may be some point of contention here

But as it is you’re just blowing smoke out of you posterior over something which has nothing whatsoever to do with my post.

Apologies for the wind, when you made reference to psychosis it evoked a thought…

Pommy bastard 2:52 pm 16 Oct 10

Well, davesact, that situation, differs as they are two different substances with different effects on different people, and have different legal status.

Having said all that, if I had said they were in any way comparable, such as legally, in medical effect, or in their epidemiology, you may have a point. If I had made a comparison, or stated that the legal or moral status of one was in someway indicative of or analogous to, or in some way reflected or effected the status of the other, there may be some point of contention here

But as it is you’re just blowing smoke out of you posterior over something which has nothing whatsoever to do with my post.

GregW 2:38 pm 16 Oct 10

Pommy bastard said :

Despite it creating a huge risk for those with a predisposition to psychosis

I would not call it a huge risk, it was only a few years ago that any statistically significant effect was shown at all.

From a physiological point of view alcohol, tobacco, paracetamol, heck even table salt are far more dangerous than cannabis, ecstasy or LSD.

Cannabis will never be legalised in the ACT until the constitution is changed to prevent federal government interference, and even then it is unlikely. The reason for this is that Australia has signed up to the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs which requires signatories to make supply and possession illegal.

International treaties only need the support of politicians, not science.

vg 2:33 pm 16 Oct 10

“How should that differ to Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome with inappropriate alcohol injestion?”

Well, spelling for starters

davesact 2:13 pm 16 Oct 10

I meant ingestion.

davesact 2:05 pm 16 Oct 10

Pommy bastard said :

“Despite it creating a huge risk for those with a predisposition to psychosis,”

How should that differ to Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome with inappropriate alcohol injestion?.. a legal drug.

arescarti42 1:46 pm 16 Oct 10

Pommy bastard said :

Despite it creating a huge risk for those with a predisposition to psychosis, I would prefer it to be legal (and taxed). If only a small percentage of the $$$$ wasted on enforcing its criminalisation was spent on good drug education and health services, we’d be a far better off society.

Agreed. Alcohol and Tobacco are far more harmful and dangerous substances that are already perfectly legal, it doesn’t make a whole lot sense to waste resources on stopping people from using it.

Pommy bastard 1:32 pm 16 Oct 10

Despite it creating a huge risk for those with a predisposition to psychosis, I would prefer it to be legal (and taxed). If only a small percentage of the $$$$ wasted on enforcing its criminalisation was spent on good drug education and health services, we’d be a far better off society.

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