23 January 2007

Life City Church Canberra

| johnboy
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I’ll start by saying that I’m a twice a year Anglican. As a result I’ll admit that I tend to think of evangelical churches as a bunch of intolerant nutters at the best of times, for all that I know many good people are into the happy clappy stuff.

So when I noticed in our googleads a listing for the “Life City Church Canberra” I’ll admit I was intrigued. Earning myself a couple of cents I followed the link and was fascinated to find a myspace page (here’s a pdf just in case they take it down) where badly aliased image files enticed me to join “prophetic and apostolic young men and women that will shape the future“.

Nevermind that Myspace is increasingly becoming a favoured haunt for those who want to exploit the vulnerable young, I would ask, dear reader, you consider their willingness to use the phrase “2 launch”.

In my opinion they’re either morons, or they’re trying to exploit gullible morons. When I was a slightly lost 17 year old pricks like these used to pester me no end in the hope they could exploit me. I can only hope our young readers have the sense to reject this bollocks while finding whatever level of genuine spirituality enriches their lives.

If Christianity does appeal to you I’d advise trying, for a while, a church that’s been around a few hundred years before chancing your arm with the untested stuff.

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What other psuedo eastern mystical mid-western USA religions are there in Canberra trying to steal our minds (and money)?

I consistently concede the possibility they might just be idiots.

I think you’re being overly harsh on the happy-clappies, John. Where you see mendaciously seeking out vulnerable youths for the furtherance of an evil cult, I see an honest, albiet rather cheesy, attempt to combine genuine spiritual belief with modern culture (much as, say, priests used Bob Dylan lyrics in sermons back in the 60s).

Yes, it’s tacky, but I wouldn’t call it evil.

Since predictive text arrived four years ago anything other than proper words is a time consuming affectation of the incompetent.

Do you write full words when you text John?

I think you will find that our use of myspace is simply because we have not yet launched our website.

man I’m loving the googleads this is bringing, give me your money!

‘2 Launch’ – I find it curious this is something of controversy – I am 26, I have been a youth worker for years – the general crew that do come to LifeCity events are young. That is how I write all the time on the net, that is why we communicate like such. It is actually who we are. I guess when you text you use full words? Our heart is to speak Australian rather than some disconnected ‘religious language’ that has little to do with where each of us really are.

Then IMHO you are morons who are unfit to offer advice about anything, let alone spirituality.

But I find it more likely, given your use of Myspace, that you’re trying to manipulate gullible youth.

Absent Diane7:10 pm 05 Feb 07

Josh – how old do you guys believe the world is?

Wow… I am amazed we are being discussed.

Let me explain a couple things:

‘Shaping the future'(in original comment) – each one of us shapes the future, our own, those in our influence, those far beyond our direct influence.

LifeCity does seek to shape a better future. As a person that has worked in social work (secular based) our society is undeniably in pain through broken families, racial arrogance and ignorance just to begin with.

The ‘slogan’ of LifeCity is ‘Real People Real God Real Life’ – whether you like our style which is not traditional european (since when way European 18th century music superior to other cultural music?) but very modern Australian. Our heart is to be authentic – so often the church in general is quick to throw rocks but is often plastic and arrogant.

We are not perfect and you might not agree with our beliefs but that is the beauty of australian society. We can be different and even passionate about what we identify with but by and large we all get along well.

‘2 Launch’ – I find it curious this is something of controversy – I am 26, I have been a youth worker for years – the general crew that do come to LifeCity events are young. That is how I write all the time on the net, that is why we communicate like such. It is actually who we are. I guess when you text you use full words? Our heart is to speak Australian rather than some disconnected ‘religious language’ that has little to do with where each of us really are.

We work together with churches from numerous backgrounds from traditional catholics – to uniting and of course modern churches and everything in between.

We offer a different style that suits some people – if others like the more traditional hymn based services then that is cool. There are plenty of churches for them but for many of us we need something different and LifeCity is that for some.

4 life,

Josh

Oh.. and Anthony is a surfy lad that had that photo taken by an artistic photographer with his new baby. It is not my style either but that is who he is and that is cool with me. I think you will find a lot of similar photos in pro photographers galleries with Dad’s and bubs. I actually have one similar by the same professional photographer but I won’t post it. It is a little embarrassing.

To each their own.

I grew up in a religious home and when I had the choice decided that it wasn’t for me.

Yes social awkward types are over represented in the church, but no more so than your average amateur drama group.

I think some of the views expressed against organised religion demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of what it is all about. As simto said, there is no such organisation as “the church” and to lump the Exclusive Brethren in with more reputable denominations is unfair (which I think is the whole point of JB’s original post).

Christianity (at least the sort that I subscribe to) is not “blind faith”. I am constantly questioning my beliefs, and am encouraged to critically examine my life and my faith. Jesus taught to love everyone, which is not a message to sit back and enjoy my own self-importance, but a challenge to how I can live my life more meaningfully.

As for the argument about religious dogma foisted upon us as public policy, take this analogy: We as a society have decided murder is unacceptable. This is a moral view (which organised religion agrees with). You are not allowed to say “I don’t subscribe to this morality, so I should be allowed to murder whoever I want”. Abortion can be seen the same way.

So they’ve got a very amateur attempt at a website. Big deal. They don’t seem to be doing any harm. VY is right, get over it.

UB, I think you are on the right track, particulary considering the secret machinations of the Exclusive Brethren (who don’t believe in voting themselves) in getting up their preferred candidates in both Oz and NZ, and the unhealthy (in my view) influence of Hillsong and it’s franchises.

However, what people do in the privacy of their own homes is their business, and good luck to them if this is what keeps them going.

‘but many people find the support God gives them to be very important in their lives. It doesn’t make them weak; in fact, it makes tham stronger.’

which god ?

apollo ? mercury ? woden ?

or my favourite:

perkinus!

people who believe in any gods are mentally ill.

prayer is a form of self-delusion. like the losers who think listening to an anthony robbins tape will make them business tycoons.

Evangelical JB in terms of enthusiasm perhaps. A system of beliefs where people refuse to look critically at such can and does have very real repercussions for everyone else, particularly when said beliefs are imposed on the rest of us, whether we chose to belong to that ‘faith’ group or not. Eg, Abbott on abortion, Howard on stem cells, Pell on marriage equality, etc. These religious positions translated into public policy may not affect you or I, but think of others denied access to health services because of religious stigma – in the case of abortion – just for having sex.

I don’t care if people can have their blind faith, if they so chose, but I get upset when such stupidity is trotted out as an acceptable value system for the rest of us, remember the whole intelligent design fiasco? Particularly when those with blind faith are unwilling to look even theologically at their own religious dogma, let alone any critical examinations to those beliefs, e.g. women as priest in Catholicism. [end rant]

Sounding a bit evangelical yourself there UB.

Why do the beliefs of others, when not foisted on you, upset you so?

GnT if people find strength in believing in the notion of god as pushed out by and created by organised religion, that that’s their own stupidity. They could find strength or their ‘crutch’ in a bowl of apples for all I care. Strength resulting from a mere belief doesn’t validate that belief. Particularly since from an anthropological perspective it’s evident that organised religion and their ‘views’ of god are man-made, cultural constructs. There’s nothing real about it and no evidence that’s able to withstand externally-valid scrutiny has yet been provided to support these constructed views of god.

Vinnies, salvos, etc are businesses run by religious organisations and despite a lot of their work being supportive much of their stance on public health issues (as they try to influence public policies) are downright destructive and oppressive! Like prohibition on drug use, which makes little sense from a public health management perspective. Those would use their own version of god in this way are weak individuals trying to find a place for themselves in the world in the absence of any personal inner strengths to define their own characters and without an ability to lead a life at peace with the world around them. Can you say sheep!

GnT, I don’t think bonfire is disagreeing about the nature of that point, just pointing out that solving your weakness with a God crutch is stupid.

At least, that’s the point I’d make.

And my my doesn’t bonfire hate stupid people.

Bonfire, responding to the “god is a crutch” argument which I’ve heard many time before: If you only have one leg, a crutch is a vital support. You can’t walk without it. If you are lucky enough to have two legs (metaphorically) good on you, but many people find the support God gives them to be very important in their lives. It doesn’t make them weak; in fact, it makes tham stronger.

Unbeliever, responding to “All organised religion is just another excuse for folks to use in their oppression of others.” So Vinnies, Anglicare, Uniting Care, Salvos, etc are all set up for the oppression of others??? Please.

VYBerlinaV8_now with_added_grunt1:30 pm 24 Jan 07

Chris S – fair enough points. I would suggest that the Salvos probably see more than their fair share of the results of substance abuse, however, which is why they take such a hard line on the issue.

Religion in politics is difficult, because any government is expected (I think) to govern in accordance with wider community expectations, and if that wider community is religious, there will be some implications. That said, I think it would do the Australian governments (various levels) well to simplify their policies so they aren’t aligned with any religious angle at all. If a religion-oriented candidate gets up, however, it shouldn’t be a problem for them to act in accordance with their campaign approach.

I should probably confess that I have a deep distrust of our government, and have found more meaning in religion than politics.

VY, you’re right, in that if people have particular beliefs, then that’s their private business and they should be allowed to get on with it.

It’s when those beliefs spill over into the public arena that there can be problems. Tony Abbott is an example, where his policies are dictated by religious beliefs rather than by facts and science.

Likewise the Salvos – they do tremendous stuff in the community, but are also quite fundamentalist when it comes to matters such as drugs. Unfortunately, John Howard has given the Salvos the inside running on some pretty significant social policy issues, and this fundamentalism starts to emerge in governmrnt policy.

I think the answer is to keep religion out of politics, which seems to be very difficult for conservative governments in particular.

All organised religion is just another excuse for folks to use in their oppression of others and not take responsibility for their actions.

Isn’t that Scouts?

To quote Lisa Simpson: ‘Prayer. The last refuge of a scoundrel.’

All organised religion is just another excuse for folks to use in their oppression of others and not take responsibility for their actions.

especially anthony, with that weird baby pressed against his bare chest

I also found that image disturbing.

Well, there’s no single organisatino called “The christian church” for starters (to be fair, there’s also no single organisation called Islam) – yes, there’s common beliefs, but there’s an awful lot of schisms out there.

The occasional moron out there (hi, Absent Diane) confuses the organisations that take more extremist views with those that don’t believe that, just because you go to a certain church, you’re therefore automatically better than everyone else.

VYBerlinaV8_now with_added_grunt9:04 am 24 Jan 07

Hey, if Christianity appeals to you, go to a church you like. If you don’t like it don’t go. I must admit I find it quite interesting how many people seem to hate the Christian church, yet don’t have a problem with Muslims (despite the connotations Muslims have to deal with in the western world at the moment), or any other well known religion.

I’ll probably cop a bit of flaming for this, but I don’t really care. It’s a free country, people should believe what they want. Remember, if we are going to accept someone saying “my religion is valid” in this country, we also have to accept “everyone else’s religion is invalid”.

Build a bridge and get over it.

That’s high praise indeed simto.. everything is great about Melbourne. Living there, I didn’t even mind the weather.

If that subculture happens to be the speaking in tongues happy clappers then they shouldn’t be insulted afterall.

(by the by, in certain subcultures, “Woof” is a term of romantic endearment…)

Hey, I’ve been told I’m good looking. By a melburnian, no less!

It’s been said before… but needs to be said again. Canberra is the city of ugly men! What ugly mutts, woof!

Absent Diane7:57 am 24 Jan 07

ahh the wonder of new human life… I am glad my girlfiend isn’t clucky at all. she already has to look after a whingey refluxy 1456 week old.. I guess at least with a 4 week old it still has the cute factor…

There’s just something a bit odd about really religious people. I’m convinced they are missing a fraction of a chromosone; something definately is missing with these people.

In time though I’m sure we’ll find a gene that explains these people though.

Absent Diane: ahhhh babies, gotta luv ’em ;-P

just settling the refluxy 4 wk old so wifey can get some zzzzzzzzzzzs – “share the workload” etc (besides my nipples don’t work the same). yep up doing same now 😉

I just realised that I’m one-handed typing, without the porn…

Absent Diane5:47 am 24 Jan 07

Anyone who wants an alternative to religion should read some Richard Dawkins. Fascinating stuff, good for the genuinenly religio-curious and even for the steadfast religious types (those with some modicum of logic, at the least).

And Gerry your post time is even more ridiculous than mine.

Bonfire: ‘God as a crutch’ certainly ain’t as bad as God as a catalyst for war/violence/terrorism though, huh!?! ;-P

Oh well, each to their own. At least they celebrate their religion, unlike some churches… (here’s where I should ‘plug’ Kevin Smith’s film “Dogma” – some nice comments about religion)

Meconium: On names, did you (or anyone) booner-proofread the CT’s 2006 babies guide?

A long time ago, in a suburb not far from my (former) home suburb, I used to attend AOG (Assemblies of God, aka LCC). I wasn’t real impressed with the “[insert religion here] have got it wrong because…”-attitude. If your brand of religion don’t stand on it’s own merits, maybe it shouldn’t stand…

Also, I seem to recall a ‘prophecy’ doing the rounds about how Canberra’s sins were going to be punished by a ‘wind’ from the West – interesting then that the fires that wiped out AOG’s last residence came from the west, no?

he, he, one of the ‘Ads by Google’ at the right is for “Life City Church”

one more thing – on anthony’s own myspace page, he gives the name of his newborn: Zamuel Douglas-James Hubbard. this one’s a classic for the births and names section – did i miss it or was it not in the paper?

in all seriousness, some of the friends on that myspace page are creepy. especially anthony, with that weird baby pressed against his bare chest. look into his eyes – what is he thinking?

any person who believe so little in themselves that they need a ‘god’ as a crutch, should be despised.

gods were thought out of existence when the enlightenment began.

Vic Bitterman11:24 pm 23 Jan 07

You’ll find them in the dictionary listed within ‘Loops’, sub category ‘Fruit.

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