28 March 2012

Life experience vs youth

| creative_canberran
Join the conversation
40

Earlier this month, the ACT Greens announced their 2012 election line up. Among the candidates, 20 year old University of Canberra student, real estate agent, drag queen and comic Johnathan Davis. By his own admission he’s scraping by, living at home, dividing his time between studies, part time work and his, various and colourful extra curricular activities. And there’s of course Wyatt Roy in the Federal Parliament.

Today Twitter brings word that NSW Labor loyalist and former ANU Union Chair Ben Dugan is to run for the Queanbeyan City Council. Readers of RiotACT have seen his name appear on here a few times, once because of his plan to rebrand ANU Bar (never happened) and his founding of an education foundation (not sure where that went).

I don’t want to focus on these individuals, but want to throw out there the issue of life experience vs youth. What do people think about running local and territory government while still studying, or with very little experience beyond study. Is there such a thing as too young, or is it desirable vs stale politicians jaded by the political machine?

Join the conversation

40
All Comments
  • All Comments
  • Website Comments
LatestOldest
AsparagusSyndrome12:22 am 04 Apr 12

Getting well along through middle-age now. As the old saying goes – The older I get, the better I was. I am more and more inclined to the conclusion that I and most others around me don’t have “the answers” and might just have to satisfy ourselves with giving out helpful suggestions and hope for the best.

So, give youth a go by all means. But not a free kick. Judge them by their performance and merit, just like the rest of us, and not by any misplaced ‘leadership’ aspirations they may exhibit. (Tt seems that every kid these days is given ‘leadership’ pep-talks at school each year from about the age of 8, so some of them might appear to us to graduate with a sense of ‘entitlement’ – this is just a passing phase. I’m not sure that too many of today’s youth got ‘follower’ pep-talks at school, but as that is most people’s destiny, it would seem more useful sometimes.).

Recognise that our youth have their own perspectives, just like we did, a less tarnished ‘idealism’ and perhaps less destructive cynicism than the rest of us. And yes, they often have less ‘real worldly experience’, but that all depends on your definition of ‘real world’ which generally appears to include “everything I’ve ever done and nothing else besides”.

If voted in, they won’t be working alone – they’ll be part of a team of varied talents and ages, whatever side of politics they enter (and sadly many will be absorbed into the party machines and compromise their individualism and ideals). Don’t be surprised if some of them switch sides. They won’t be the first. It’s not always down to naked opportunism – some of them are genuinely still finding their place in life (even if most of us would prefer they didn’t do that while in the priveleged role of public office).

Also bear in mind that genuine talent tends to show up early in those who possess it – its really up to us to identify it, recruit it when we find it, and cultivate it, not bury it. (The political workload will bury those of insufficient talent anyway). My $1.30 worth, allowing for inflation over all those decades.

Micky_P said :

…attempting to wound Ben Duggan’s council run is not a despicable attack?

Trying to wound someone’s name in public? You must have me confused with someone else:

http://twitter.com/#!/Ben_Duggan/status/184895964723679232

Jim Jones said :

Ben_Dover said :

You damn kids get off my lawn

Ah look! Mystic Jim makes up rubbish that no one has said, but is protected by the admins from any reply! Gosh, that’s novel.

poetix said :

(and all my comments are odd examples.)

🙂

c_c said :

She was an immature, narrow minded person who didn’t listen and couldn’t look critically at something.

Sounds like your average university student to me.

I have nothing against “youth” (or even uni students for that matter), provided they don’t believe that they know everything (and by extension that everyone else knows nothing).

astrojax said :

poetix said :

astrojax said :

i rekkun there should be some youth voice in the political debate and don’t at all want to see obstacles in the way of any elegible folk standing to run; but any thought of mandating a youth quorum, some positive discrimination, would water down that input. so if this davis chap[?] is the right stuff, eloectors will elect. but i fancy most voters want something tangible for their vote and that would include some world and life experience.

that said, there also needs to be competition for the vote and a lack of this might see him get up! there is a dearth of talent in australian politics at the moment and perhaps a ‘youth team’ philosophy will give us some traction in coming terms…

Speaking of traction, why do you hate your caps key so much? Your sentences read like you were on one of those bikes where you can’t stop the pedals going round and you’re going downhill.

I would never vote for someone who wrote ‘rekkun’, for example. Or a real estate agent. But having some young people elected would be good. So long as they’re not Young Liberals, aka the Smarmy Army.

ode in reply

my caps key is broke. and i am the reincarnation
of e.e.cummings. and i have
a neurological disorder preventing me from using
big letters. and as a space
traveller, the caps key also impels me from my rampant thoughts

and there is an invisible man stalking
me warning me off the caps key. be afraid. and the weather
precludes my using

capitalisation: especially in the nation’s capital – we’re already
capital, so why double up? and this bike
is killing me…

and luckily for you, i’m not running. whaddya rekkun about that, eh? i wouldn’t vote for a real estate agent, either, btw… and not that i’ve ever got into the poetry of your own posts so much [an odd example here and there notwithstanding] 🙂

astrojax surprise
silvery starman floats out
rampant blatherings

🙂

(and all my comments are odd examples.)

When I was younger, I clearly saw the benefits of having a young opinion contributing to political decision-making processes. As I have gotten older, my fickle brain thinks that its current system of logic is “better” and that individuals with life experience, contrasted against students, are clearly better decision makers over a broad spectrum. Young people tend to have focused goals and ambitions, and it is this ability to obsessively analyse situations for fault (where adults weight the protection of their status as guardian over the decision process more highly perhaps than the outcomes of all their decisions) – this fault-finding methodology can be utilized and used as a springboard for better, broader policy decisions with regard to future generations. The fact that we discount two entire generations of human beings from being able to make a real, immediate impact on the world that they live in is a very misguided state of affairs indeed.

poetix said :

astrojax said :

i rekkun there should be some youth voice in the political debate and don’t at all want to see obstacles in the way of any elegible folk standing to run; but any thought of mandating a youth quorum, some positive discrimination, would water down that input. so if this davis chap[?] is the right stuff, eloectors will elect. but i fancy most voters want something tangible for their vote and that would include some world and life experience.

that said, there also needs to be competition for the vote and a lack of this might see him get up! there is a dearth of talent in australian politics at the moment and perhaps a ‘youth team’ philosophy will give us some traction in coming terms…

Speaking of traction, why do you hate your caps key so much? Your sentences read like you were on one of those bikes where you can’t stop the pedals going round and you’re going downhill.

I would never vote for someone who wrote ‘rekkun’, for example. Or a real estate agent. But having some young people elected would be good. So long as they’re not Young Liberals, aka the Smarmy Army.

ode in reply

my caps key is broke. and i am the reincarnation
of e.e.cummings. and i have
a neurological disorder preventing me from using
big letters. and as a space
traveller, the caps key also impels me from my rampant thoughts

and there is an invisible man stalking
me warning me off the caps key. be afraid. and the weather
precludes my using

capitalisation: especially in the nation’s capital – we’re already
capital, so why double up? and this bike
is killing me…

and luckily for you, i’m not running. whaddya rekkun about that, eh? i wouldn’t vote for a real estate agent, either, btw… and not that i’ve ever got into the poetry of your own posts so much [an odd example here and there notwithstanding] 🙂

bd84 said :

There is merit in having both younger and older members of parliament.

This actually raises an interesting question that no one has touched on yet, how do we define young?

Wyatt Roy is 21-22. Johnathon Davis is 20. Ben Duggan is early 20s.

So we’re not talking teenagers.

But Natasha Stott Despoja was 26 when she entered parliament and her age was considered controversial for the time.

There’s obviously no magic cut off so long as they’re over 18, but is the idea of “young” politicians perhaps a generational thing. Will politicians generally get younger as people in society in general do stuff younger?

astrojax said :

i rekkun there should be some youth voice in the political debate and don’t at all want to see obstacles in the way of any elegible folk standing to run; but any thought of mandating a youth quorum, some positive discrimination, would water down that input. so if this davis chap[?] is the right stuff, eloectors will elect. but i fancy most voters want something tangible for their vote and that would include some world and life experience.

that said, there also needs to be competition for the vote and a lack of this might see him get up! there is a dearth of talent in australian politics at the moment and perhaps a ‘youth team’ philosophy will give us some traction in coming terms…

Speaking of traction, why do you hate your caps key so much? Your sentences read like you were on one of those bikes where you can’t stop the pedals going round and you’re going downhill.

I would never vote for someone who wrote ‘rekkun’, for example. Or a real estate agent. But having some young people elected would be good. So long as they’re not Young Liberals, aka the Smarmy Army.

c_c said :

Obvious question: does repeated posts about Zed Seselja and The ACT Greens equal an infatuation with Zed and the Green’s MLAs?

Of course not. What we have here is what Labor tried and failed to do in Queensland last week. Smear.
The Labor folk at ANU don’t like seeing their own criticised so hey go on the attack, just like Anna Bligh did against Newman before admitting she had no proof. It’s disgusting, and it adds nothing to the actually issues, which is the classic question of youth vs experience.

And writing ANONYMOUS articles on RiotAct attempting to wound Ben Duggan’s council run is not a despicable attack? Mate, I’m using my real name.

I’m calling you out for the strange obsession you have with certain ANU students – which has been observed by most Rioters who have seen your threads.

Finally I want to make something very, very clear. My comments about Fleur Hawes on here came only after she began that remarkably stupid campaign against the ANU Library merger.

Initially, I tried to give her advice on how it should proceed. She wouldn’t listen. For her, it was all or nothing, she had no concept of negotiation with the Vice Chancellor or consultation with students. It was this way or no way. After repeated attempts behind closed doors, still my advice fell on deaf ears.

It was only after that that I chose to use a public forum to try and get the message through, that students needed to negotiate and make a more compelling case.

The Vice Chancellor even sent a letter out to the protestors saying the same things I was saying, that they needed to put a case to him and basically grow up.

Because she didn’t listen in person, and because she herself was fond of using the local media to get messages out, I decided to do the same. Initially about the library merger, and then other issues on campus such as the elections and housing.

There was never a personal interest, I want that very clear.
She was an immature, narrow minded person who didn’t listen and couldn’t look critically at something.
She’d ask for ideas but only accept those that fit her narrow vision. Surely her getting booted from the University after not listening to repeated academic warnings demonstrates that.
It’s harder to ignore comments on policy and electoral choices in a public arena, and that is my sole reason for commenting.

Now if you don’t mind, I want to get back to commenting on Zed Seslja latest crackpot announcement, before someone accuses me of having a thing for him. After all, a dozen or so comments, must mean something.

i rekkun there should be some youth voice in the political debate and don’t at all want to see obstacles in the way of any elegible folk standing to run; but any thought of mandating a youth quorum, some positive discrimination, would water down that input. so if this davis chap[?] is the right stuff, eloectors will elect. but i fancy most voters want something tangible for their vote and that would include some world and life experience.

that said, there also needs to be competition for the vote and a lack of this might see him get up! there is a dearth of talent in australian politics at the moment and perhaps a ‘youth team’ philosophy will give us some traction in coming terms…

Obvious question: does repeated posts about Zed Seselja and The ACT Greens equal an infatuation with Zed and the Green’s MLAs?

Of course not. What we have here is what Labor tried and failed to do in Queensland last week. Smear.
The Labor folk at ANU don’t like seeing their own criticised so hey go on the attack, just like Anna Bligh did against Newman before admitting she had no proof. It’s disgusting, and it adds nothing to the actually issues, which is the classic question of youth vs experience.

devils_advocate11:50 am 29 Mar 12

To come at this from a slightly different angle – is there any way this Davies character could possibly do a worse job that the current bunch – even if he tried?

I mean seriously, life experience, youth, qualifications, I think the first criteria should be a basic IQ test before we start worrying about aspirational qualities such as competence or experience or knowledge.

Micky_P said :

The only reason the name Ben Duggan appears on this site is due to the OP C_C or otherwise known as Creative_Canberran

The only reason his name appears?

Check your facts: http://the-riotact.com/a-new-name-for-the-anu-bar/38887

Article written by Johnboy.

I have no interest in the individuals, only the issues and arguments they make.

c_c said :

Among the candidates, 20 year old University of Canberra student, real estate agent, drag queen and comic Johnathan Davis.

When I first read this, I thought it was listing *all* the Greens candidates, not the hobbies of one of them.

el said :

No, sorry – Due to my personal beliefs there’s no way I could possibly vote for a real estate agent. It’s just disgusting and immoral!

I feel the same way.

Ben_Dover said :

You damn kids get off my lawn

The only reason the name Ben Duggan appears on this site is due to the OP C_C or otherwise known as Creative_Canberran (and I do know his real name) has a fixation on him and his love interest Fleur Hawes (also of similar ANU political fame – but for other reasons)

It is public knowledge at ANU that the OP has updated websites like Uncyclopedia to reflect his ongoing infatuation with Ben Duggan, reflected in the Canberra article of the aforementioned website. The article formerly read ‘the Union Char slinkering away from Unilodge at 3am’ and after Ben’s resignation has been changed to political broker.
Some have formulated that this ongoing interest in Ben Duggan is due to jealousy of his love life and his success in student politics, C_C as most of you will know is a keen commenter on student politics (even bragging about articles on unknown websites) but has never actually run himself, denigrating the activity from his ivory tower. Whilst some view sniping from the unpopular edges as a commendable activity, others view it as a petty act and one that has garnered attention around ANU for the wrong reasons.

There is merit in having both younger and older members of parliament. But common sense usually dictates that they are sensible people who reflect the values and views of their constituents. The selection of Jonathan Davis as a candidate shows how seriously the Greens take the electorate, like a bunch of clowns. The statements and comments in the media show that he’s not a real candidate, but just someone to make up the numbers and be an attempt at a profile raiser or the Greens. Anyone even remotely considering voting for him should to Canberra a favour and donkey voting instead. I will make an exception for his mum and dad, relatives and his mates. They’re a given already.

buzz819 said :

Some young people might have a better pulse on society then older people, adversely, some young people might have a more idealised view on what society wants, but you can say the same of older people as well.

Yeah, I think back to when I was a 20 year old and I really had no clue, not to say that others won’t.

But then I look at some older pollies who can’t use a computer – seriously how can run a country in the 21st century without understanding computers.

I guess you need diverse abilities and views.

sophomoric said :

Duggan did indeed have the bar revamped, which was what he was elected to do. A google search will reveal where his charity efforts are up to. I have no interest in his campaign for council, but your obsessive focus on a gaggle of ANU student politicians is bordering on creepy.

I said rebrand, not renovate, try to read more carefully.

He announced plans for the Union to rebrand the bar, new name and identity. It was reported on RiotACT (http://the-riotact.com/a-new-name-for-the-anu-bar/38887), which is where I heard about it, and was also in Canberra City News.

Never happened.

As for charity efforts, as I say in my post not sure where that’s out. A Google search brought up their Facebook, but no longer shows their website.

When I finally found it, and clicked on “What we do” – every initiative says “Coming Soon”
http://www.raisinghope.org.au/#!what-we-do

I did do some checking before I posted, own website can’t say what they’ve done. Their Facebook thanks someone for helping them make a promo film, but otherwise is just links to articles around the internet. Again, no insight about there it’s at. If you know more, please share.

But look these two people just happen to be the most prominent local examples.Article isn’t meant to be about them specifically, but about the broader question.

At a time when party elders are both saying the two parties need younger blood, and are also saying they need more people with real world background, not just people moulded by the machine.

broudie17 said :

@c_c, I’ve noticed a very, very strong pattern in your Riot Act postings of making critical or dismissive comments about Johnathan Davis since his preselection, which makes me suspect you have some undeclared motivation in writing posts like this.

To give but a few examples, you made: the first comment in response to the Greens preselection annoucement (immediately critical of Johnathan Davis’ preselection); a sardonic comment about there being no transvestite comedians in the Liberal line-up (again, the first comment); and now a story directly criticising JD for his lack of experience and, as you describe it, his “various and colourful extra curricular activities”.

Given the examples given which suggest you have an unusually focused motivation on Johnathan Davis, I feel I’m entitled to ask you: what is your real agenda? Are you a politically-motivated young Liberal or young Labor member? Are you the member of any political party? Or are you just a disgruntled individual who has an axe to grind against Johnathan? Lay out all the cards on the table so we can examine your postings with the full information.

Firstly, calm down. Secondly, you’re kidding right?

In the past month, I’ve made several comments on RA about Zed Seselja being a “low altitude flyer” with no ideas, little community involvement, who makes rather nutty suggestions about what he would be capable of in power.

Several of those comments attacked Zed Seselja’s criticisms of Greens MLA Shane Rattenbury’s refusal to speak against the attacks on the CSIRO and Pace Egg Facility.

A number of other comments referred to Zed’s statements about Cotter Dam, and just today his comments about ACT power costs.

I would also direct you to comment #1 on a recent article critiquing the Liberal’s choice of candidates: http://the-riotact.com/liberals-officially-announce-their-team-for-the-act-election/68497

Right or left, gay or straight, blue collar or white collar, I don’t care. It’s what a candidate brings to the table, their experience, professionalism and focus among other things. Personally, I don’t think age is a key factor, because some never grow up while others grow old before their time.

Let’s consider Johnathon,

Did he make a compelling statement about feeling ready to represent his community? No.

This is what he said:
”I don’t like to say no to an opportunity,”

A commendable notion but it’s a more eloquent form of the teen phrase “like, whatever.”

He’s a first year policy student, so if he did get elected, he’d be a part time MLA or have to quit Uni (since I don’t know any Unis that allow 4 year deferments). He’s not serious about it, he’s doing this for a laugh, which the Canberra Times goes on to clarify:
“If he does make the preselection cut, his goal this time around is simply to support Ms Bresnan’s re-election by campaigning on policies including affordable housing and childcare in Brindabella.”

So he’s not even a real candidate.

Territory elections roll around every 4 years, meaning the next election would be around the time he’s graduated and maybe done honours.

Much smarter to wait till then and put in a proper effort, because admitting upfront you’re not really running is as stupid as Val Jeffrey saying he only ran on CAP’s ticket last time to prop up the Libs. A good way to not be taken seriously.

And being a fair, non partisan person, I’d also say repeat candidates like Gulia Jones should take a hint.

student, real estate agent, drag queen and comic Johnathan Davis.

No, sorry – Due to my personal beliefs there’s no way I could possibly vote for a real estate agent. It’s just disgusting and immoral!

Duggan did indeed have the bar revamped, which was what he was elected to do. A google search will reveal where his charity efforts are up to. I have no interest in his campaign for council, but your obsessive focus on a gaggle of ANU student politicians is bordering on creepy.

@c_c, I’ve noticed a very, very strong pattern in your Riot Act postings of making critical or dismissive comments about Johnathan Davis since his preselection, which makes me suspect you have some undeclared motivation in writing posts like this.

To give but a few examples, you made: the first comment in response to the Greens preselection annoucement (immediately critical of Johnathan Davis’ preselection); a sardonic comment about there being no transvestite comedians in the Liberal line-up (again, the first comment); and now a story directly criticising JD for his lack of experience and, as you describe it, his “various and colourful extra curricular activities”.

Given the examples given which suggest you have an unusually focused motivation on Johnathan Davis, I feel I’m entitled to ask you: what is your real agenda? Are you a politically-motivated young Liberal or young Labor member? Are you the member of any political party? Or are you just a disgruntled individual who has an axe to grind against Johnathan? Lay out all the cards on the table so we can examine your postings with the full information.

And in the interests of disclosure and fairness, I am a very good friend of Johnathan, and admire him for his hard work and confidence, and for his energy in putting himself into the public area. This posting, however, is a personal initiative and has no connection to Johnathan Davis.

When people make a big deal of ‘life experience’, all I hear is ‘unqualified’.

buzz819 said :

Some young people might have a better pulse on society then older people, adversely, some young people might have a more idealised view on what society wants, but you can say the same of older people as well.

*than

Did you really mean to use the word adversely? Do you know how to use a dictionary or a thesaurus?

Some young people…

carnardly said :

a part time real estate agent only scraping by and living at home with the wrinklies?

I’d wait till he gets into the real world I think.

You obviously don’t read the Canberra Times. I would suggest this young man has been out in the real world. He has looked after himself quite well after leaving home at an early age. He works, studies and is standing for election in the ACT Assembly. Even though I don’t vote Green, I wish him well in his endeavours. I admire anyone who stands for election no matter what side of politics.

If you’ve seen the young liberals in action you’d support any call for banning under 30’s from representative office.

I don’t know Jonathan Davis but I wish him all the best in his endeavours. He has alot of drive and I believe that he will be a bonus in the Assembly.

Holden Caulfield said :

Give the kiddies a voice. Why shouldn’t the concerns of 18-30s be represented in this way?

When I vote for a representative, I vote for someone to represent my views.

Having a token kiddie MLA may be a good thing theoretically, but would you want one representing your constituency?

Having a MLA for the Uni may be feasible.

I’d definitely want a more serious and grounded MLA than some 20 yr old flibbertigibbet representing me.

Some young people might have a better pulse on society then older people, adversely, some young people might have a more idealised view on what society wants, but you can say the same of older people as well.

Holden Caulfield5:17 pm 28 Mar 12

Give the kiddies a voice. Why shouldn’t the concerns of 18-30s be represented in this way?

I agree an over representation would probably not be a good thing, aside form that I think it’s good to see.

The point about inexperience may have some merit, but no more so than the theory that if you’re deemed mature enough to be given the responsibility of voting you should be mature enough to be elected.

a part time real estate agent only scraping by and living at home with the wrinklies? I’d wait till he gets into the real world I think.

neanderthalsis3:48 pm 28 Mar 12

I don’t think that youth should exclude one from politics. I do, however, despair at the modern form of professional politician that we have seen emerge, predominately on the left but also on the conservative side, of student unionist, turned political staffer, turned Member for Upper Apparatchik.

johnboy said :

Roslyn Dundas was an excellent MLA during her tenure for example.

That’s true, and impressive to see what she’s done since.

She later described her time in the Legislative Assembly though as a learning experience, which set her up for other roles including ACTCOSS.

I guess one has to wonder whether she would have enjoyed more longevity had it been the other way around? She only lasted one term, with the phrase “inexperience” often used, even by herself I believe, after she lost her seat.

CrocodileGandhi3:43 pm 28 Mar 12

As a youth, I’m far too busy thinking about interwebz, petty crime and how often I’m going to change my job to worry about politics.

johnboy said :

Although the idea that there’s a monolithic “youth” political viewpoint is incredibly insulting to young people.

+1

I think a small number of young politicians is no bad thing.

Although the idea that there’s a monolithic “youth” political viewpoint is incredibly insulting to young people.

Roslyn Dundas was an excellent MLA during her tenure for example.

But there can be too much of a good thing.

Daily Digest

Want the best Canberra news delivered daily? Every day we package the most popular Riotact stories and send them straight to your inbox. Sign-up now for trusted local news that will never be behind a paywall.

By submitting your email address you are agreeing to Region Group's terms and conditions and privacy policy.