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Light rail to cross the lake to Woden next: Greens, ALP

Charlotte Harper 2 September 2016 102

Shane Rattenbury and Andrew Barr

Canberra’s light rail network will be extended by 11km from Civic to Parliament House and along Adelaide Avenue to Woden if Labor or a Labor-Greens coalition is re-elected next month.

Both Labor and the Greens have announced today that they will sign contracts during the next term of Government to extend the line, already slated to run from Gungahlin to Civic, to Woden in the key Legislative Assembly electorate of Murrumbidgee.

Neither Labor nor the Greens have a sitting member among their candidates for Murrumbidgee, though former Greens MLA Caroline Le Couteur is running for the seat. The anti-light rail Canberra Liberals Leader Jeremy Hanson and his colleague Giulia Jones are the only sitting MLAs running in the electorate.

The other options previously under consideration for Stage two, Russell and the Canberra Airport, Civic to Belconnen, and Civic to a Parliamentary Triangle loop, remain in the works for the future.

Is Woden via Parliament and Adelaide Ave the right choice for Stage 2 of light rail?

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Chief Minister Andrew Barr said the route to Woden created “a north-south spine” for public transport in the ACT and was one of five priority stages of the planned light rail network, with Gungahlin to the city under construction and extensions to Belconnen, Canberra Airport and further into the Parliamentary Triangle to be built next.

He noted that stage two got the light rail project “across the lake”.

“Buses, bikes, and walking routes and later stages of light rail will feed into this spine, making it even easier for Canberrans to get where they need to go,” Mr Barr said.

Light rail Stage 2 to Woden

Mr Barr said announced recently that almost all ACT public servants working in health-related areas, some 1000 workers, would move to the Woden Town Centre given its proximity to The Canberra Hospital. The Federal Department of Health and Ageing’s central office is also in Woden, along with IP Australia and several smaller Federal agencies.

ACT Greens MLA Shane Rattenbury said the second stage to Woden would create a spine that connected the city’s north and south in line with the Greens’ commitment to deliver light rail right across the Territory.

“The Greens are already looking forward to future stages, including actively considering an extension into Mawson.

“There are great benefits in bringing light rail to the south of Canberra, including fantastic opportunities to revitalise the Woden town centre with vibrant urban development that comes with light rail.

“By 2040 we expect thousands more people travelling from Woden towards the City in the morning peak and employment in the Parliamentary Triangle is expected to dramatically increase between now and 2041. The Greens believe that every Canberran should be able to travel to and from work easily, affordably and without having to sit in traffic for hours.

Mr Rattenbury said light rail was about making life in Canberra better so that people didn’t end up stuck in traffic every day, and setting the growing city up for the future.

“The ACT Greens have campaigned for light rail for over ten years, and I am pleased that the Labor Party recognises the benefits that a Canberra-wide light rail network. And who knows, twenty years down the track the Liberals might just come out in support of it too,” the Greens Leader said.

Canberra Liberals transport spokesman Alistair Coe said the announcement today was “further proof” that Mr Barr and the rest of the ACT Labor government were out of touch with the priorities of Canberrans.

“Just like the current proposed route from Gungahlin to the City, this extension to Woden is the wrong direction for Canberra on so many fronts and will continue to drive rates through the roof,” Mr Coe said.

The Shadow Transport Minister noted the extension was “completely uncosted” and said “significant problems getting a tram over Commonwealth Avenue Bridge” were likely to blow out costs.

“Given Canberrans will have to pay $1.78 billion for stage one if ACT Labor is elected, this extension will further push the ACT into dangerous, unchartered financial waters. On a stroke of the pen by Andrew Barr, light rail costs could blow out by billions of dollars and residents will foot the bill,” Mr Coe said.

Pictured are Greens MLA Shane Rattenbury and Labor Leader and Chief Minister Andrew Barr at Majura Solar Farm last week and a map that shows Stage 2, and below, an earlier map showing the contenders for stage two and future potential extensions of the light rail network.

Light rail future


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102 Responses to Light rail to cross the lake to Woden next: Greens, ALP
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Arthur Davies Arthur Davies 3:33 pm 07 Sep 16

I don’t know what the bridge plan is, but can the light rail lane not be a shared LR + car lane during normal times, and during peak times, a LR only lane. This wouldn’t be that different to get used to than going 40 in school zones, or the time limited 60k limit in the 80k zone near Mawson on Athllon Drive, or how you can’t stop along certain routes during clearway times, etc… It might be a bit weird at first but ppl would get used to it fast, and it could be clearly sign marked. This solves most of the problem. In peak, it would make it worse initially for cars, and then encourage people to consider catching the faster tram instead and get less worse over time as people transitioned.

Yes the light rail will have some more stops than current express buses it will displace, but it won’t be lots more, it will be a few more. The slightly added time will not be that significant, especially with the traffic light priority system for the light rail. Remember, this is NOT a TRAM, it is LIGHT RAIL, which is significantly faster than your average TRAM. We need to stop referring to it as a tram altogether, as it is not, it is light rail which is different.

The north of Canberra around Gungahlin is expanding fast, so many suburbs there already, more being built, parcels of land being released, this long term infrastructure is needed now. The alternative is completely redoing a large part of the road and adding dedicated bus only lanes and extra car lanes at some point along with lots more busses, add all that up and the costs come very close to the LR costs for a less desirable solution that doesn’t add the same amount of land capture value which is the key to LR being the right solution.

As for the costings to Woden, it will not be cheap, long term infrastructure is not cheap by definition, but long term it is good value and good for Canberra. Stage 2 is announced and makes sense for a few reasons already discussed. Stage 3 will most likely be Russell + Airport Link hopefully announced in the next Governments term, and hopefully Stage 4 of Tuggeranong and Belconnen can be done taken to the 2020 election as a commitment. The more the network is built out, the more functional it becomes overall, and the more sense it makes put together than pieces alone, and the more busses it frees up to service specialised routes not currently covered.

The bridge will not safely take the weight of a tram when the rest of the lane is full of traffic. In fact I suspect that they would have to remove some of the existing roadbed to reduce the dead load before putting in tram rails. It is either a dedicated tram lane or a new bridge, mixed traffic is not technically feasible.

pink little birdie pink little birdie 2:20 pm 07 Sep 16

rommeldog56 said :

Why ?

Because ACT Voters are most likely to vote back the the ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t, despite the above and despite their track record.

Ummm when the Liberal’s were last in government there was a vote of no confidence (that succeeded) in their Chief Minister because grass was ordered from Queensland for the stadium in our winter for the 2000 Olympic soccer games (September) – I believe that was the final straw in a series of bad debacles

Liberal’s have some good policies and I was planning on voting on them but their stance on the tram specifically means I won’t. I think there will be a high number of independents because lots of people think the light rail should be started (lots also don’t like the light rail) but it’s probably time for a change.
Also Although Canberra people are more likely to be able to separate federal vs state government issues the federal situation will still have an impact on the election.

dungfungus dungfungus 1:14 pm 07 Sep 16

Given that Shane Rattenbury was the person responsible for this “project”: http://www.tccs.act.gov.au/roads-paths/major-construction-projects/completed-projects/molonglo-reach-cycle-path it is probable that he is currently searching for another local bridge to “recycle” and use for the trams to cross LBG.
If I were the mayor of Tharwa I would be arranging a 24/7 stakeout around their bridge to repel any attempts by TCCS to purloin same.

rommeldog56 rommeldog56 8:33 am 07 Sep 16

Mordd / Chris Richards said :

I don’t know what the bridge plan is……

Nor does Shane Rattenburry or no doubt, does the ACT Gov’t. But that did not stop them announcing the reprioritisation of stage to to be to Woden instead of the airport. They said that contracts WOULD be signed before the 2020 Legislative Assembly election. Really, without knowing about the bridge work, whats under the roads, without an Environmental Impact Statement, a business case/Benefits Costs Ratio, engineering reports and most importantly, THE COST to ACT Ratepayers and the impact of that on ACT Annual Rates/Levies. Its like requesting a blank cheque from ACT Voters/Ratepayers. “Trust us – we will do it, regardless”.

But, at the end of the day, the to and fro, argument and counter argument, means nothing. Its sort of pointless.

Why ? Because ACT Voters are most likely to vote back the the ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t, despite the above and despite their track record.

Thats not the ACT Govt’s fault actually – its the fault of ACT Voters and Ratepayers. We get the Governments we deserve both Federally and in Canberra. Gullibility, some sort of pathological fear of changing Government in the ACT and a city where so many people are so well paid that they can apparently absorb the ACT Govt’s 10% avg pa forever increase to Annual Rates/Levies and charges, etc, dominates voting trends.

wildturkeycanoe wildturkeycanoe 8:07 am 07 Sep 16

Mordd / Chris Richards said :

I don’t know what the bridge plan is, but can the light rail lane not be a shared LR + car lane during normal times, and during peak times, a LR only lane. This wouldn’t be that different to get used to than going 40 in school zones, or the time limited 60k limit in the 80k zone near Mawson on Athllon Drive, or how you can’t stop along certain routes during clearway times, etc… It might be a bit weird at first but ppl would get used to it fast, and it could be clearly sign marked. This solves most of the problem.

Canberra drivers haven’t even been able to adopt the concept of sharing roads with cyclists and you think they will welcome a tram? Unless it is segregated from the rest of the traffic, drivers WILL use it even when it is illegal to do so, you cannot stop human nature. People continue to speed through 40 zones, use clearways when traffic is jammed, park in “No Stopping ” zones and txt whilst driving. Signs and markings will not solve problems, sharing the road with a tram will only create them.

Mordd / Chris Richards said :

Yes the light rail will have some more stops than current express buses it will displace, but it won’t be lots more, it will be a few more. The slightly added time will not be that significant, especially with the traffic light priority system for the light rail.

There are at most maybe 3 sets of traffic lights or intersections along the route planned, Adelaide avenue has a free run all the way. I do not understand why you would bring that up as a part of the argument.

Mordd / Chris Richards said :

Remember, this is NOT a TRAM, it is LIGHT RAIL, which is significantly faster than your average TRAM. We need to stop referring to it as a tram altogether, as it is not, it is light rail which is different.

Buses can travel along Adelaide avenue at 80km/h, faster if the government wished them to. The tram can only do 70km/h, if it is to be the same as the fleet used for the Gunners route [The government would be daft to use a different system for this one]. Calling it Light Rail won’t make it go any quicker, certainly no faster than the bus network.

From a technical point of view, can anybody tell me if the tram would be able to go up the incline to Parliament Drive or even over the bridge because if they planned to go around Capital Circle, one lane would need to be shared or made “tram only” to go through the tunnel. Do we indeed know which route it would take, or is that going to be announced after contracts have been signed?

Mordd / Chris Richards Mordd / Chris Richards 3:36 am 07 Sep 16

Arthur Davies said :

I recently spoke to Shane Rattenbury at the Dickson shops re trams etc. I asked him how they intended to cross the lake, as the Metro Chief Engineer at the time, advised me that the trams can cross the lake ONLY IF ONE LANE OF TRAFFIC IS CLOSED EACH WAY (will do wonders for the traffic flow!). Or a new bridge would be needed at quite some cost. He had no idea what solutions were available let alone which one is included in the scheme, “we haven’t got down to that detail yet”. Like almost all of the planning, they commit without doing any real planning or costing etc.

Adelaide avenue is a very good main traffic route, i.e. it is located well away from residences so it protect them from noise, air pollution, physical danger etc. A case of excellent planning in the past. However virtually all the people in this area are too far from the tram route for it to be useful to them. Another case of you pay for it even though you cannot practically use it, a bit of an equity problem? Other modes of transport, buses initially, then electric autonomous cars, overhead rapid transit etc can all get into the existing suburban community centres, BUT TRAMS CANNOT AS THEY CANNOT NEGOTIATE NARROWER STREETS. So are we looking forward to high rise apartments along the edges of Adelaide Av as for Northbourne? Stunning silence from the Govt, “haven’t thought about that”, “we don’t want you to know”.

Coming technology will turn the trams into a “stranded asset” long before the end of the contract period, about 22 years away. As for past pp tollways, the contract will have a clause in it which guarantees that they they will continue to be paid even if patronage does not meet expectations, or even if the trams are closed down & the rails quietly rust away. Why else does the govt refuse to publish the contract & let us all see the implications?

The whole idea is not so much a thought bubble as a thought drool.

I don’t know what the bridge plan is, but can the light rail lane not be a shared LR + car lane during normal times, and during peak times, a LR only lane. This wouldn’t be that different to get used to than going 40 in school zones, or the time limited 60k limit in the 80k zone near Mawson on Athllon Drive, or how you can’t stop along certain routes during clearway times, etc… It might be a bit weird at first but ppl would get used to it fast, and it could be clearly sign marked. This solves most of the problem. In peak, it would make it worse initially for cars, and then encourage people to consider catching the faster tram instead and get less worse over time as people transitioned.

Yes the light rail will have some more stops than current express buses it will displace, but it won’t be lots more, it will be a few more. The slightly added time will not be that significant, especially with the traffic light priority system for the light rail. Remember, this is NOT a TRAM, it is LIGHT RAIL, which is significantly faster than your average TRAM. We need to stop referring to it as a tram altogether, as it is not, it is light rail which is different.

The north of Canberra around Gungahlin is expanding fast, so many suburbs there already, more being built, parcels of land being released, this long term infrastructure is needed now. The alternative is completely redoing a large part of the road and adding dedicated bus only lanes and extra car lanes at some point along with lots more busses, add all that up and the costs come very close to the LR costs for a less desirable solution that doesn’t add the same amount of land capture value which is the key to LR being the right solution.

As for the costings to Woden, it will not be cheap, long term infrastructure is not cheap by definition, but long term it is good value and good for Canberra. Stage 2 is announced and makes sense for a few reasons already discussed. Stage 3 will most likely be Russell + Airport Link hopefully announced in the next Governments term, and hopefully Stage 4 of Tuggeranong and Belconnen can be done taken to the 2020 election as a commitment. The more the network is built out, the more functional it becomes overall, and the more sense it makes put together than pieces alone, and the more busses it frees up to service specialised routes not currently covered.

Arthur Davies Arthur Davies 4:37 pm 06 Sep 16

I recently spoke to Shane Rattenbury at the Dickson shops re trams etc. I asked him how they intended to cross the lake, as the Metro Chief Engineer at the time, advised me that the trams can cross the lake ONLY IF ONE LANE OF TRAFFIC IS CLOSED EACH WAY (will do wonders for the traffic flow!). Or a new bridge would be needed at quite some cost. He had no idea what solutions were available let alone which one is included in the scheme, “we haven’t got down to that detail yet”. Like almost all of the planning, they commit without doing any real planning or costing etc.

Adelaide avenue is a very good main traffic route, i.e. it is located well away from residences so it protect them from noise, air pollution, physical danger etc. A case of excellent planning in the past. However virtually all the people in this area are too far from the tram route for it to be useful to them. Another case of you pay for it even though you cannot practically use it, a bit of an equity problem? Other modes of transport, buses initially, then electric autonomous cars, overhead rapid transit etc can all get into the existing suburban community centres, BUT TRAMS CANNOT AS THEY CANNOT NEGOTIATE NARROWER STREETS. So are we looking forward to high rise apartments along the edges of Adelaide Av as for Northbourne? Stunning silence from the Govt, “haven’t thought about that”, “we don’t want you to know”.

Coming technology will turn the trams into a “stranded asset” long before the end of the contract period, about 22 years away. As for past pp tollways, the contract will have a clause in it which guarantees that they they will continue to be paid even if patronage does not meet expectations, or even if the trams are closed down & the rails quietly rust away. Why else does the govt refuse to publish the contract & let us all see the implications?

The whole idea is not so much a thought bubble as a thought drool.

wildturkeycanoe wildturkeycanoe 8:34 am 06 Sep 16

Mordd / Chris Richards said :

Buses will not be scrapped except for the route 300 the light rail replaces, and only along those sections.

The Gungers to City will be as fast, or faster in peak, than the current bus travel times.

Other bus services will get ALTERED to FEED INTO the light rail network, but they will NOT be cancelled outright and people forced to walk km’s to the light rail with no other option.

Not only are you falsely scaremongering, Coe is not a reliable source for what the government will or will not do with a stage 2 that is still in the planning phase, he is not a mind reader and neither are you.

Your attempt to frighten everyone by twisting the facts won’t work though, just as Coe’s BS scaremongering is also being mostly ignored by intelligent Canberran’s who can recognise mediscare spin and lies when they see it.

The usefulness of this thread has severaly degraded into ridiculous aspersions with no basis in fact now, sad, we had a half intelligent conversation going for a few pages there.

Firstly, if the tram is only replacing the express service and traveling straight through to Civic without stopping, what is the point of any development along the route, which is the foundation of the financial viability of the project? Does everyone in Deakin, Yarralumla, Curtin, Hughes and the parliamentary triangle still have to catch a suburb meandering bus all the way to Woden Interchange to get to work, as there won’t be anywhere for connecting services to connect to? You say the other services will be fed into the tram route, but the tram needs to stop to pick up these passengers, meaning a slower trip. That is a basic concept, please explain to me how you can have the best of both worlds.

Secondly, now that your revelation is being challenged you go to the classic fallback of changing the subject with a stab at the credibility of the opposition, instead of getting some evidence to back up your point of view.
There is no scaremongering going on, just intelligent debate. At least that was the case until the personal cheap shots begun.

chewy14 chewy14 12:27 pm 05 Sep 16

Mordd / Chris Richards said :

Buses will not be scrapped except for the route 300 the light rail replaces, and only along those sections.

The Gungers to City will be as fast, or faster in peak, than the current bus travel times.

Other bus services will get ALTERED to FEED INTO the light rail network, but they will NOT be cancelled outright and people forced to walk km’s to the light rail with no other option.

Not only are you falsely scaremongering, Coe is not a reliable source for what the government will or will not do with a stage 2 that is still in the planning phase, he is not a mind reader and neither are you.

Your attempt to frighten everyone by twisting the facts won’t work though, just as Coe’s BS scaremongering is also being mostly ignored by intelligent Canberran’s who can recognise mediscare spin and lies when they see it.

The usefulness of this thread has severaly degraded into ridiculous aspersions with no basis in fact now, sad, we had a half intelligent conversation going for a few pages there.

It’s not scaremongering to point out logical facts.

The first stage is barely viable with the addition of 20000-30000 residents in the direct vicinity of the route.

The second stage will be more expensive and currently has nowhere near the density of potential users to make it viable. It too will require massive urban intensification along the route, hence it will require extra stops along the route to service those people. You can’t not service the people that make the route viable. This will neccessarily make it slower than current express buses along the route.

But it’s probably irrelevant in the long run because the travel time by car will also be significantly longer due to the increased densities with little or no increase in road capacities.

dungfungus dungfungus 10:57 am 05 Sep 16

Mordd / Chris Richards said :

Buses will not be scrapped except for the route 300 the light rail replaces, and only along those sections.

The Gungers to City will be as fast, or faster in peak, than the current bus travel times.

Other bus services will get ALTERED to FEED INTO the light rail network, but they will NOT be cancelled outright and people forced to walk km’s to the light rail with no other option.

Not only are you falsely scaremongering, Coe is not a reliable source for what the government will or will not do with a stage 2 that is still in the planning phase, he is not a mind reader and neither are you.

Your attempt to frighten everyone by twisting the facts won’t work though, just as Coe’s BS scaremongering is also being mostly ignored by intelligent Canberran’s who can recognise mediscare spin and lies when they see it.

The usefulness of this thread has severaly degraded into ridiculous aspersions with no basis in fact now, sad, we had a half intelligent conversation going for a few pages there.

What Morrd/the other bloke who apparently is the only one allowed to “Mind read” is saying is:

Never Bull S*** a Bull S***er

Mordd / Chris Richards Mordd / Chris Richards 9:55 am 05 Sep 16

Buses will not be scrapped except for the route 300 the light rail replaces, and only along those sections.

The Gungers to City will be as fast, or faster in peak, than the current bus travel times.

Other bus services will get ALTERED to FEED INTO the light rail network, but they will NOT be cancelled outright and people forced to walk km’s to the light rail with no other option.

Not only are you falsely scaremongering, Coe is not a reliable source for what the government will or will not do with a stage 2 that is still in the planning phase, he is not a mind reader and neither are you.

Your attempt to frighten everyone by twisting the facts won’t work though, just as Coe’s BS scaremongering is also being mostly ignored by intelligent Canberran’s who can recognise mediscare spin and lies when they see it.

The usefulness of this thread has severaly degraded into ridiculous aspersions with no basis in fact now, sad, we had a half intelligent conversation going for a few pages there.

rommeldog56 rommeldog56 8:24 am 05 Sep 16

Paul Costigan said :

Bring on the tram. Let there be loads more.
Yes to the tram to Woden – and elsewhere in good time.

Personally, I find your pro tram glee club statements and your whinging and whining about planning – including in Dickson, just a touch hypocrite.

The tram will change Dickson – including the shops, forever. It is inevitable that planning and consultation will suffer because of the indecent haste by the ACT Gov’t to claw back $ by land sales for infill – including Dickson shops. You will loose green/open spaces and public amenities. Congestion will dramatically increase in and around the tram line – including in Dickson, etc.

You can not have your cake and eat it too.

rommeldog56 rommeldog56 8:15 am 05 Sep 16

wildturkeycanoe said :

Shadow Minister for Transport Alistair Coe has slammed the extension, saying it’s “completely uncosted”.

Correct. From the OP :

” Both Labor and the Greens have announced today that they will sign contracts during the next term of Government to extend the line”

So, cost, environmental impact statement, consultants and engineering reports, etc, will be irrelevant, it will go ahead, regardless.

wildturkeycanoe wildturkeycanoe 7:56 am 05 Sep 16

Mordd / Chris Richards said :

Given the current 300 route bus between Civic and Woden does not stop anywhere near close to every 500m, why would the light rail have to exactly? It may have a few more stops than the current express bus between Woden and the City does, but if it does, it won’t be many, and it may be the same as now, which is hardly any. Your argument is nonsensical.

When the other buses are removed from the area because the tram is the only option the government demands you to take into the city and “value added” shops and services are built along the route, the tram will have to stop frequently or the development along that route will be in vain. Look at the Gunners tram route, it stops nearly a dozen times in its 12km route because there will be no more bus services in the area. It is already proven to be slower than existing bus services. That is how it gets patronage. Do you seriously think the tram will gun it straight through to Civic without stopping at Deakin and Yarralumla? The tram is supposed to be within “easy” reach of the residents of the highrise apartments along the route. This means more stops. There will be no more express, just like the Gungahlin express buses will be scrapped once the tram line is finished. It isn’t nonsense, it is what the government wants.

I am not alone in thinkng this too,
From http://hercanberra.com.au/cpnews/light-rail-bound-woden/ the opposition minister has been quoted as follows –
Shadow Minister for Transport Alistair Coe has slammed the extension, saying it’s “completely uncosted”.
Coe argues that few people will live within walking distance of Stage 2, and that the extension will have a negative effect on the current bus network.
“Buses that already service the route between the City and Woden are likely to be cancelled, meaning commuters will be forced to take a slower and less efficient journey on a tram.”

dungfungus dungfungus 7:43 am 05 Sep 16

dungfungus said :

Masquara said :

dungfungus said :

They will need a long extension cord for cloudy days and nigh time, then.

You might like to read some articles on battery storage technology developments under way re solar …

That is going to be the mother of all jet packs then – you do know how heavy batteries are, don’t you?

Masquara said :

dungfungus said :

They will need a long extension cord for cloudy days and nigh time, then.

You might like to read some articles on battery storage technology developments under way re solar …

Nuclear Fusion is a thing. Its only a ‘matter’ of time before it becomes useful.

The words nuclear and Green never appear in the same sentence in the ACT.

Mordd / Chris Richards Mordd / Chris Richards 10:33 pm 04 Sep 16

wildturkeycanoe said :

If the tram is going to service all the people along the line, from Woden to Civic, it has to stop every 500m or so to pick up and drop off passengers. This will make the trip take longer than an express bus or a private car. People will only take public transport if it gets them to and from work on time, we are an impatient bunch who can’t sit around all day waiting for stuff to happen, we want it now. So if buses are replaced by the tram and trams can’t overtake each other on the one line, then there will be no rapid transport anymore – except by private vehicle. Who is going to start their journey 30 minutes earlier thanks to the tram? Who is going to be able to make their work let them leave 30 minutes earlier so they can get home at the same time as they used to do via bus?
Trams are not a suitable transport solution for time-starved workers. They will ditch public transport for the convenience of a car, so they don’t have to walk so far to catch their public transport and regain those lost minutes stopping and starting to pick up and drop off other patrons. BRT seems like such a better option, plus transit lanes…but nobody in government is listening.

Given the current 300 route bus between Civic and Woden does not stop anywhere near close to every 500m, why would the light rail have to exactly? It may have a few more stops than the current express bus between Woden and the City does, but if it does, it won’t be many, and it may be the same as now, which is hardly any. Your argument is nonsensical.

dungfungus dungfungus 10:20 pm 04 Sep 16

Masquara said :

dungfungus said :

They will need a long extension cord for cloudy days and nigh time, then.

You might like to read some articles on battery storage technology developments under way re solar …

That is going to be the mother of all jet packs then – you do know how heavy batteries are, don’t you?

gooterz gooterz 10:08 pm 04 Sep 16

Masquara said :

dungfungus said :

They will need a long extension cord for cloudy days and nigh time, then.

You might like to read some articles on battery storage technology developments under way re solar …

Nuclear Fusion is a thing. Its only a ‘matter’ of time before it becomes useful.

pink little birdie pink little birdie 10:02 pm 04 Sep 16

aussie2 said :

This is pork barrelling but more importantly is a bad decision. Labor needs to go! With 2million visitors to Canberra annually, many will come by air, yet there is no public transport from the airport to the city like other capital cities. Additionally light rail is touted as being a rapid form of transport. Whilst the Griffins may have envisaged transport corridors, such as those proposed by Labor today, they do little to create DIRECT routes to our main population centres. If congestion is to be such a major headache, why light rail and not Skyrail at a quarter of the cost? Surely a Skyrail track (see Melbourne, Dusseldorf, Dortmund, Wuppertal, Shanghai examples) to Belconnen or Tuggeranong – our largest population centres, would be of the utmost use to the travelling public and encourage high levels of patronage

So I went to Sydney on the weekend. We drove to our hotel in the CBD and parked our car there on Friday left it there to this morning.
Most tourists generally if they are driving like to drive into the city then drive out when it’s time to leave. For our entertainment we remained within walking distance (our hotel was on George street) and got a taxi to and from the main event (a little out of the city). We did this for several reasons – Driving in a busy unfamilar city is hard and frustrating, we wanted to drink at the main event (not driving) and the taxi dropped us off at the exact points we wanted to go, the main event was also a little way outside the city ($20 cab ride).
If we fly or bus in we also usually cab to the hotel (because they go directly there and commuter transport with luggage is annoying – tired and/or confused tourists and it takes us directly to where we need to go. (We didn’t consider trains because working out where we needed to go was hard and we would have to buy one of those card things)

While a link to the airport is for the future use by tourists isn’t real high – it’s for locals going to or returning from trips. A tram on Northbourne (where the majority of hotels are) to the Commonwealth Ave (where the major tourists attractions are NGA particularly) stops would be much more used. Defined stops, permanent signs marking the route to the attractions.

Masquara Masquara 6:11 pm 04 Sep 16

dungfungus said :

They will need a long extension cord for cloudy days and nigh time, then.

You might like to read some articles on battery storage technology developments under way re solar …

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