24 March 2009

Mad hoax bomber found to be mad

| johnboy
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The ABC brings news that Tamara Batterham, 35, from Holt, has been found not guilty of her string of bomb hoaxes (to Government House, Parliament House, Virgin Blue, the White House in Washington DC, and the Lodge).

    Batterham told police she had voices in her head and had given up fighting an imaginary man called George, who told her what to say.

    Today the ACT Supreme Court jury found her not guilty on the ground of mental impairment.

Chief Justice Higgins will hear submissions on a treatment order on Friday.

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Emlyn Ward said :

Basically, the streets are crawling with loonies because of a madcap idea by psychologists in the 1970s that loonies should be cared for “in the community”, which just means they sleep rough and end up being abused in prison if their relatives can’t or won’t help them.

I think you’ll find that was politicians looking for a cheaper way of dealing with the mentally ill by kicking them out of hospital. Rather than call it the “kicking them out of hospital” policy, they re-cast it as “care in the community”.

They can’t even agree on the precise diagnosis of any basic mental conditions…

Er, yeah they can – it’s called the “Diagnostics and Statistics Manual”, now up to version 4. It’s a big book that helps trained professionals decide what flavour of loony they’re dealing with.

…let alone an effective treatment for any of them (except for prescribing insanely powerful psychotic drugs that leave their victims pantingly pinned to their chairs and 50kg heavier).

Not true again; I think you’ll find most mental illness treatment involves talking about your problems, rather than drugs. In fact, your common or garden psychologist isn’t allowed to prescribe drugs – he’s not a doctor.

You should know all that; could it be you’ve got a couple of MUs that are hindering your understanding?

If you’re talking about the photo I think you’re talking about then I agree there is *no* way those two guys have a degree (unless it’s from the University of Canberra or some other lowbrow ersatz uni), however those aren’t loonies – those are clearly criminals. Although they are clearly looney criminals.

oops. wrong thread.

Emlyn Ward said :

Psychologists, psychiatrists – loonies with university degrees.

Cf the loonies in the photo. No chance either of them has a student loan to repay.

Emlyn Ward said :

Psychologists, psychiatrists – loonies with university degrees.

Ever notice how many bizarre news items are spawned by these crazy people?

Like this one:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/armed-shrink-unstable-mentally/2007/02/02/1169919518780.html

Wow, you seem to have a lot in common with Tom Cruise and his views on psychologists/psychiatrists. You wouldn’t per chance beleive in Thetans would you?

Personally I think most psychologists/psychiatrists do a great job, particulalry in helping those suffering from depression, stress or other common mental illness.

Psychologists, psychiatrists – loonies with university degrees.

Ever notice how many bizarre news items are spawned by these crazy people?

Like this one:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/armed-shrink-unstable-mentally/2007/02/02/1169919518780.html

Emlyn, you seem to be suffering from delusions about psychologists, or perhaps confusing them with psychiatrists.

Psychiatrists can prescribe because of their medical qualifications, and their profession carries more responsibility for deinstitutionalisation and the development of diagnostic frameworks than psychologists (who aren’t able to prescribe)

Many psychs secretly hate the medical profession because they never got the grades to get into Med School, and because psychiatrists think they’re a lower status profession.

I have no evidence to back up that last statement, but I’ve believed it for years. just seemed like a good opportunity to get it off my chest.

Pommy bastard said :

Locking people up for crimes actus et potentia or even a posteriori has been rejected by virtually all societies. You cannot lock someone up for a crime they may commit, otherwise we’d all be locked away.

That is *not* what I suggested – I suggested locking up *loonies* before they end up in trouble with the law.

Pommy bastard said :

If you are proposing a law which would incarcerate those with a predisposition to mental health problems, (say those with a family history of schizophrenia,)

Another strawman – that isn’t even remotely what I suggested – I suggested locking up the *loonies*, not their relatives.

Basically, the streets are crawling with loonies because of a madcap idea by psychologists in the 1970s that loonies should be cared for “in the community”, which just means they sleep rough and end up being abused in prison if their relatives can’t or won’t help them.

As for “…people called psychologists who are very capable and qualified ..”!
Lol!
Is there any other profession that is so singularly incapable? They can’t even agree on the precise diagnosis of any basic mental conditions let alone an effective treatment for any of them (except for prescribing insanely powerful psychotic drugs that leave their victims pantingly pinned to their chairs and 50kg heavier).

Pommy bastard5:19 pm 24 Mar 09

Emlyn Ward said :

Spot-on – being a criminal is a form of insanity in itself, so it’s very hard to separate loonies from criminals.

The important thing would be to catch loonies *before* they commit any criminal offences and lock them up somewhere where they can be protected from themselves. (And we from them).

Locking people up for crimes actus et potentia or even a posteriori has been rejected by virtually all societies. You cannot lock someone up for a crime they may commit, otherwise we’d all be locked away.

If you are proposing a law which would incarcerate those with a predisposition to mental health problems, (say those with a family history of schizophrenia,) then you would be incarcerating many people who not only would never commit a crime, but also those who would never even get the disease.

I do not find your idea of “justice” or “protecting the public” palatable.

yooze is just a feck’n hippy tree huggin’ fraggle, cletus, who shouldn’t BE ALLOWED TO BREATHE, ’cause what LOVE AND HAPPINESS to all on a HIPPY FARM?

…actually, that is an idea i espoused many years ago to much mirth and laughter from the group of police to whom i espoused it – are they hippies too?

I have a good solution to junkie problem. We should make a big farm in the middle of the country where they grow their own poppies/coca/whatever. They can choose to go to jail and be detoxed etc or they can choose to go there and have as much dope as they like.

They are free to leave, without drugs, whenever they like, at which point they resume their prison sentence.

So they will no longer have to steal from people to support their habit, and they no longer support the drug importers and distributors. And the ones who don’t want to / can’t kick the habit will be much happier and will have abundance of clean(er) junk and not have to do very much. And everyone else will be happier because we don’t have to look at them or have them rummaging through our house/car/etc.

If I’m going down I’m taking her with me!

AngryHenry said :

Sorry I meant Emlyn, I obviously haven’t had my medication today. Arrest me please!!!

The thought police are on their way Henry.

Sorry I meant Emlyn, I obviously haven’t had my medication today. Arrest me please!!!

Emlyn Ward said :

Spot-on – being a criminal is a form of insanity in itself, so it’s very hard to separate loonies from criminals.

The important thing would be to catch loonies *before* they commit any criminal offences and lock them up somewhere where they can be protected from themselves. (And we from them).

No, no it isn’t.

You see Evelyn there are these people called psychologists who are very capable and qualified at figuring out who is a ‘loony’ and who isn’t.

People commit crime for all kinds of reasons.

Not all criminals are insane and not all insane people are criminals (these psychologists actually have a sub-section called ‘criminal psychologists’ who are very good at assesing who may be criminally insane and who may be just playing the system to get a lighter sentence).

I must be so nice to live inside your head where everything is black and white, I actually think that is a bit nuts, perhaps you should place yourself under house-arrest.

Spot-on – being a criminal is a form of insanity in itself, so it’s very hard to separate loonies from criminals.

The important thing would be to catch loonies *before* they commit any criminal offences and lock them up somewhere where they can be protected from themselves. (And we from them).

I also think it is high time a procedure was developed to issue compulsory treatment orders on any criminal whose crime is associated with any form of substance abuse: in other words thieving junkies and brawling football louts should be subjected to various strenuous controls on their substance abuse including regular testing and confinement for non-co-operation.

sepi said :

Todd would go to the lock-up rehab that I also think we need.

Hmm – at this rate with all my specialised lock-ups I’ll be keeping the construction industry busy.

We really only need one specialised lockup, to help the people who are caught in the mental health/drug and alcohol/prison/homelessness circle.

p1 said :

The problem that I have with such a concept, is that to my mind anyone who could rape and murder half a dozen people (random example) must be insane. I mean, do you really think a sane person could do that?

That’s precisely why the legal definition of insanity differs so markedly from the many medical definitions.

It’s not like sanity is an on/off switch anyway – there are so many different degrees and shades of sanity.

Todd would go to the lock-up rehab that I also think we need.

Hmm – at this rate with all my specialised lock-ups I’ll be keeping the construction industry busy.

…umm Yous r all hippy fecks!

BELCO 4 LIFE!

colourful sydney racing identity11:32 am 24 Mar 09

realityskin said :

Jim Jones said :

Also, we should have a ‘Asylum for the Criminally Insane’, because that would just be awesome.

+1 !!!

In Goulburn 😀

So where would Todd Carney be sent?

p1 said :

Actually, that is Goulburn.

I expect that’ll generate a potential FOTW…

Also, we should have a ‘Asylum for the Criminally Insane’, because that would just be awesome.

+1 !!!

In Goulburn 😀

Actually, that is Goulburn.

The problem that I have with such a concept, is that to my mind anyone who could rape and murder half a dozen people (random example) must be insane. I mean, do you really think a sane person could do that?

Jim Jones said :

Also, we should have a ‘Asylum for the Criminally Insane’, because that would just be awesome.

+1 !!!

In Goulburn 😀

sepi said :

It bothers me that we don’t have any facility to deal with mad people who commit crimes.

I noticed in Austria that the incest cellar man (Fritzl) was sentenced to life in a psychiatric prison. We have no such thing here.

I’m not saying this lady should be locked up, but I do think people who are judged to be crazy, yet dangerous criminals need to be locked up.

Arkham Asylum?

Seriously though – the shocking state of mental health service in Australia seems to keep swinging between two extremes: (a) haphazardly locking up people with mental illnesses (often with the general criminal population), and (b) throwing them out into the wider community with little or no support.

Whenever one strategy gets enough bad PR, the penduluum swings over to the other extreme. I think that there must be a more effective middle ground, in which people with mental illness get the proper support and treatment they need, and with society being spared the threats that untreated mental illness can sometimes bring.

It’s always going to be expensive, time consuming and a lot of policy (and community) work. But even ignoring the moral question surely it’s more expensive not to do something.

Also, we should have a ‘Asylum for the Criminally Insane’, because that would just be awesome.

It bothers me that we don’t have any facility to deal with mad people who commit crimes.

I noticed in Austria that the incest cellar man (Fritzl) was sentenced to life in a psychiatric prison. We have no such thing here.

I’m not saying this lady should be locked up, but I do think people who are judged to be crazy, yet dangerous criminals need to be locked up.

Absolutely FJ. There is only so many times the same people can try to help before they start going nuts themselves. Even with the best funded programs in the world some people are going to be hard to help.

“Sometimes mental illness defies all the best intentions and interventions available, and wears down even the most talented workers…”

Then think how it must feel for the mentally ill.

p1 said :

…will depend on what our half-arsed, underfunded and cobbled together mental health facilities can cope with.

I think the ACT mental health services have been struggling to cope with the challenges of supporting this woman for many years now. Sometimes mental illness defies all the best intentions and interventions available, and wears down even the most talented workers…

Inappropriate9:50 am 24 Mar 09

jakez said :

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM HAS FAILED US AGAIN BLOODY HIGGINS BLOODY CORBELL BLOODY GOVERNMENT THEY SHOULD LOCK HIGGINS UP (INSERT REFERENCE TO HIGGINS PERSONAL LIFE) THIS WOMAN SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE CHAIR IN FACT EVERYONE COMMITTED OF A CRIME SHOULD GET THE CHAIR…

There we go, that should give some posters the day off.

Where are the childish spelling mistakes and chat speak?? Can’t be a nutter without those.

…will depend on what our half-arsed, underfunded and cobbled together mental health facilities can cope with.

And due to it being half-arsed, underfunded and cobbled together, it can’t cope with much unfortunately.

Clown Killer9:36 am 24 Mar 09

The courts should be able to deal with people who are genuinely a few cans short of a six-pack in a compassionate way that doesn’t lose sight of the need to provide protections for the wider community. It would seem, on face value that this person is a genuine nut bag and as such a sensible decision has been reached. What options, other than incarceration, are available to manage this persons illness will depend on what our half-arsed, underfunded and cobbled together mental health facilities can cope with.

No mention of Warhammer at all.

It does sound to me like she was genuinely nuts.

jakez said :

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM HAS FAILED US AGAIN BLOODY HIGGINS BLOODY CORBELL BLOODY GOVERNMENT THEY SHOULD LOCK HIGGINS UP (INSERT REFERENCE TO HIGGINS PERSONAL LIFE) THIS WOMAN SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE CHAIR IN FACT EVERYONE COMMITTED OF A CRIME SHOULD GET THE CHAIR…

There we go, that should give some posters the day off.

You also forgot to call everybody who disagrees with you a ‘bleeding heart’. Also needs about 4-5 references to how this stuff only happens because of the whole PC thing.

> There we go, that should give some posters the day off.

Nah..spelling was too good & there’s no text speak. 🙂

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM HAS FAILED US AGAIN BLOODY HIGGINS BLOODY CORBELL BLOODY GOVERNMENT THEY SHOULD LOCK HIGGINS UP (INSERT REFERENCE TO HIGGINS PERSONAL LIFE) THIS WOMAN SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE CHAIR IN FACT EVERYONE COMMITTED OF A CRIME SHOULD GET THE CHAIR…

There we go, that should give some posters the day off.

neanderthalsis9:05 am 24 Mar 09

I hope the imaginary voice wasn’t George III, he was as mad as a cut snake…

I know it is a nuisance and leads to work for others, but I must confess I used to quite enjoy a good hoax leading to evacuation of the building. Nothing better than seeing some jumped up power bunny donning his special hard-hat and issuing directions over the PA system. Favourite quote for me was when an alarm was raised about a “suspicious odour”. When the danger had passed, the House Warden gravely took charge of the PA system to advise us of what to do “if you DO smell a smell.” Favourite experience involved a senior manager being caught in the midst of a “sitting” in the men’s lav and refusing to hurry up – apparently the House Warden has no authority in such situations.

Tamara was a couple of years below me at school (her sister was in my year). She was always a little strange. I hope treatment works for her.

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