18 April 2009

Minque learns to never mess with Sikhs

| johnboy
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The Canberra Times has an interesting piece on the cloddish management of Manuka’s Minque who have been forced to make a grovelling apology.

    Minque nightclub is sorry about what it did to Kanwal Preet Singh Pamwa, and it is going to say so in a national newspaper.

    The sikh man who was thrown out of the Canberra nightclub because he would not take off his turban has won an apology from the venue with the mea culpa to be printed in the pages of a national broadsheet.

    Mr Pamwa’s anti-discrimination case against Manuka’s Minque nightspot has also forced the club to amend its tough dress code to include religious and cultural minorities.

The next question is this: If Minque’s management are this stupid, what else are they getting wrong?

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Tixylix said :

“I consider myself a catholic but most of the bible to be a work of creative fiction. “

Have you mentioned that at confession?

Nope, don’t go. I don’t see why I need to tall an old bloke who claims to be god’s sales rep. about my life. That’s all just about the Catholic church trying to control every aspect of your life and making you feel bad about living it. Doesn’t make me feel less of a catholic though, so what’s your point Tix?

“I consider myself a catholic but most of the bible to be a work of creative fiction. “

Have you mentioned that at confession?

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Can we do a celebrity deathmatch kind of thing where a sikh has to fight a Jedi?

Revenge of the Sikh?

Oh, and I only believe in gay marriage when both chicks are hot.

And in response to tixylix questions VY, shouldn’t that be “I only believe in gay indian marriage when both sikhs are hot”

Tixylix said :

Can I be a Catholic if I don’t swallow their stupid stories?

Of course you can. I consider myself a catholic but most of the bible to be a work of creative fiction.

But we’re not talking of religions discriminating, we’re talking about staff of a bar discriminating.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy6:31 pm 20 Apr 09

Can we do a celebrity deathmatch kind of thing where a sikh has to fight a Jedi?

Revenge of the Sikh?

Oh, and I only believe in gay marriage when both chicks are hot.

I think it’s time for a knitting circle to occupy Minque for a night … in cardies and hijab … : ]

neanderthalsis5:04 pm 20 Apr 09

Muttsybignuts said :

I love all this arguing. Can we do a celebrity deathmatch kind of thing where a sikh has to fight a Jedi?

Only if both girls are hot…

Well I’m hardly an expert on Islam, Mr Thumper, but I’d say that your friends are transgressing the word of Allah as recited by the prophet Mohammed, PBUH. Theirs shall be an awful doom, lol.

Muttsybignuts4:57 pm 20 Apr 09

I love all this arguing. Can we do a celebrity deathmatch kind of thing where a sikh has to fight a Jedi?

Tixylix said :

Of course I can, I can also open my own nightclub. But can I be a sikh if I cut my hair? Can I be a muslim if I’m gay? Can I be a Catholic if I don’t swallow their stupid stories? No.

Can i play soccer with a rugby ball on a golf course?
Well I could, but it wouldn’t be following the rules now would it?

Of course I can, I can also open my own nightclub. But can I be a sikh if I cut my hair? Can I be a muslim if I’m gay? Can I be a Catholic if I don’t swallow their stupid stories? No.

Fock me, if a religion can discriminate, why can’t a nightclub? Has anybody’s brain started working yet?

Hey, vg, could you do me a favour please? Could you vilify me some more, for being a bogan and for being of low intelligence, and then if you have time could you get back on your high horse, and perhaps later, when you are ogling your navel, you could totally fail to see the irony? Thanks champ.

Tixylix,
you are free to start your own female priest, home haircut, gay marriage loving church if you want.
In fact i’ll even throw in a dollar to get you started.

“One that values equality and human rights perhaps?”

Well if we are going to start discriminating against those who discriminate then pretty much every church in the country will be gone. Catholic church won’t ordain women? Seeya later you funny dress wearing men. Islam won’t recognise my gay marriage? GTFO islam. Don’t like my haircut? Get lost sikhs.

Honestly, religions are the most discriminatory organisations that we live with, I’m all for anti-discrimination if it means banishing religion from this land. Getting rid of all the nightclubs would be an added bonus.

Tixylix said :

What kind of nanny state are we living in when a nightclub can’t refuse entry to people who don’t look young, rich, beautiful or stupid enough?

One that values equality and human rights perhaps?

I gather you then gain a lot of entry as you’d having the looking stupid part down pat

“How do you know he didn’t have his kirpan with him in his pocket at both the nightclub and court proceedings?”

I don’t know, my dear vg, hence my question, Did they let him into the courtroom with his short sword?” The question was not rhetorical.

I will also point out at this time that we are discussing discrimination of religious and cultural minorities, not racism. I dare say that you are perilously close to vilifying a cultural minority yourself, with your red neck comment. I am a racist, but only so far as I think that dark-skinned people don’t buy as much sunscreen as fair-skinned people, but I digress.

I will repeat that I fully support any nightclub anywhere in their right to deny entry to anyone at any time for any reason. What kind of nanny state are we living in when a nightclub can’t refuse entry to people who don’t look young, rich, beautiful or stupid enough?

Tixylix said :

Of course you are right, Thumper, I am just being a pedantic troll. This thread is indeed about discrimination, which I believe is the right of any nightclub anywhere on the planet: the right to arbitrarily deny entry to whoever the fock they don’t like the look of, without rhyme or reason or recrimination. Exclusivity is the stock trade of nightclubs. People don’t go to nightclubs to drink and dance to bad music, they go to nightclubs to have losers excluded from their present company.

Dress codes that allow discrimination based on how you look are there to make the establishment look respectable. Every turban I’ve ever seen look’s immaculate so the argument doesn’t apply.

If he was drunk and abusive the bouncers would have been right to eject him and the law would have been on their side. As their action was based on religious intolerance, or at best ignorance, the law was on his side.

Einstein

How do you know he didn’t have his kirpan with him in his pocket at both the nightclub and court proceedings?

There’s nothing in any of the above to point to the contrary, but perhaps the blood rushing past your red neck to your head is inhibiting that kind of thought.

Excuse what you’ll probably think of as an insult, but there’s 3 things I can’t stand in life.

1. Racists
2. Idiots; and
3. Racist idiots

It is a ceremonial knife which a sikh is required to have on his person at all times. I believe the reference is valid, if he wasn’t carrying a dagger then why refuse to remove the turban? I would think it offensive that he would fail to observe his religion properly and then prosecute another party for preventing him from observing his religious obligations. Did they let him into the courtroom with his short sword?

Of course you are right, Thumper, I am just being a pedantic troll. This thread is indeed about discrimination, which I believe is the right of any nightclub anywhere on the planet: the right to arbitrarily deny entry to whoever the fock they don’t like the look of, without rhyme or reason or recrimination. Exclusivity is the stock trade of nightclubs. People don’t go to nightclubs to drink and dance to bad music, they go to nightclubs to have losers excluded from their present company.

cbr_lad said :

it’s still a hat though innit.. the rule is you can’t wear hats inside minque – if you really feel the need to wear your hat/headwear, there are other places to go in Manuka. Minque is crap anyway.

I was asked to remove my hat at the RSL once, which I was happy to do (forgot I was wearing it). However when I questioned why the girls were wearing hats (pink cowboy hats at that), they said ladies were allowed to wear hats inside the RSL, but not men. Now THAT is discriminatory..

Read the thread again. A turban is NOT ‘a hat’, it is there for religious observance and not to keep either his head warm or the sun out of his eyes. As DMD said at #9, asking a sikh to remove his turban is akin to asking a priest to remove his dog collar.

Tixylix

Perhaps not. You seem a literate chap, I’m sure you can find it yourself, big brain and all

Thankyou VG, your comment is as informative as it is polite and correct in usage of apostrophes. Now, are you implying that the Sikh in question is unbaptised, or not? Perhaps you could also point me to point me to some legislation regarding kirpans and domestic air travel.

Any wonder Midnight Oil once wrote a song called ‘Redneck Wonderland’?

If you think a turban is ‘just a hat’ to a Sikh then you’re probably one of those bogans that thinks a Commodore is something more than ‘just a car’

it’s still a hat though innit.. the rule is you can’t wear hats inside minque – if you really feel the need to wear your hat/headwear, there are other places to go in Manuka. Minque is crap anyway.

I was asked to remove my hat at the RSL once, which I was happy to do (forgot I was wearing it). However when I questioned why the girls were wearing hats (pink cowboy hats at that), they said ladies were allowed to wear hats inside the RSL, but not men. Now THAT is discriminatory..

Baptised Sikh’s. And its not illegal to wear a kirpan. Grow up

Was he carrying a kirpan? A sword or dagger that Sikhs are required to have on their person at all times as dictated by their religion? According to the wikipedia article on the Sikh religion a Sikh must leave their hair uncut, but wearing a turban is optional, how does that affect Mr Pamwa’s case? And if he wasn’t carrying his dagger then who is failing to respect his chosen religion?

I’m pretty sure it is against the law to walk around with a sword or dagger in this country so if you are going to criticise anyone for failing to respect the dress code of practicing Sikhs you should start with our state and federal legislative bodies.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

This story is fully sikh.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

This sort of thing makes me sikh.

lol

Ian said :

How dumb are they? What about the guy’s turban did they take offence to?

Maybe they thought he had a bomb hidden under it?

Can you teach a bouncer the difference between fashion and religious dress? If their own dress preferences are anything to go by, most of them seem locked in a dying struggle to grasp the meaning of the word ‘fashion’, let alone a sound understanding of religious observances…

chewy14 said :

What if he was wearing a Jedi robe?
Would they have been allowed to kick him out then?

But if he was a Jedi, he would do the Jedi mind trick and say “I am not the unwashed ruffian you seek. My robe conforms with the dress code”

Seriously, there is a difference between fashion accessories and religious observances, particularly those that are obligatory. Staff of all public establishments with dress codes should be made to learn the difference and act accordingly. I’m glad an apology is being given.

chewy14 said :

What if he was wearing a Jedi robe?
Would they have been allowed to kick him out then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon

The question is ‘Would they have been able to?’ I’m pretty sure that bouncer training programs (a non sequitur if ever there was one) don’t have the necessary modules (Using Your Light Sabre in the Dark; or ‘The Force – Commercial Licensing and Applications Synergies in Crowd Control 101’)

What if he was wearing a Jedi robe?
Would they have been allowed to kick him out then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon

Stinque Bar: next time you’re thinking of being discriminatory, you better make damn sure you do it to a majority.

cbr_lad said :

they should be allowed to restrict entry whichever way they like… if people don’t like it they will inevitably go somewhere else.

There is entry restriction and there is racial discrimination. I suggest you do a bit of reading to learn the difference, same for the morons on the door of this place

cbr_lad said :

they should be allowed to restrict entry whichever way they like… if people don’t like it they will inevitably go somewhere else.

They aren’t restricting his entry as he was already in there. They were discriminating against him for wearing religious headress. Thier actions were rediculous, unacceptable and insulting.

they should be allowed to restrict entry whichever way they like… if people don’t like it they will inevitably go somewhere else.

Check please!

neanderthalsis9:36 pm 19 Apr 09

Oh goodness, gracious me…

No place like the Punjab for word games! 🙂

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy8:44 pm 19 Apr 09

This sort of thing makes me sikh.

Wind up a sikh and ye shall unwind?

Good that he sikhed the human rights commission onto the club …

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy5:58 pm 19 Apr 09

This story is fully sikh.

damnintellectuals4:00 pm 19 Apr 09

Ah, La Grange. Thunderbolt beer. Long island Iced Teas. Before the dance floor. And, believe it or not, not a place with a strict dress code.

TP 3000 said :

Clubs have dress standards for a reason. Does this mean that if I go into a nightclub in a Muslim country with my wife wearing a baseball cap & then take them to the International Court for forcing her to wear their clothes?

Our democracy is a little more enlightened than a Muslim theocracy. Just because it is accepted in Saudi Arabia doesn’t mean it should be accepted in a democratic society.

kean van choc3:51 pm 19 Apr 09

@Thumper – if you are around my vintage you may remember Minque by its former name; La Grange.

….and clearly shows how ignorant they are.

And for TP 3000’s information Indians don’t just fight cowboys either

For TP 3000 particularly – Sikhs are not muslims and their homeland is not in a muslim country. Your comparison is therefore irrelevant.

“Clubs have dress standards for a reason. Does this mean that if I go into a nightclub in a Muslim country with my wife wearing a baseball cap & then take them to the International Court for forcing her to wear their clothes?”

But, this is Australia.

I don’t see how what may or may not happen in a Muslim country is relevant to what happened to a Sikh in Canberra.

R. Slicker said :

vg said :

TP 3000 said :

The comment about your wife’s baseball cap just shows how ignorant and xenophobic you are (you may need to look that word up)

Please explain.

Because a turban isn’t just a hat without deeper meaning. If you can’t see or understand that then you’re either:

a) lazy
b) stupid
c) racist; or
d) a xenophobe

It doesn’t matter a jot what happens in other countries. Its what happens in OUR country here that matters in this instance, and what happened to this man is a disgrace but hardly surprising given your average bouncer doesn’t have 2 brain cells to rub together

TP 3000 said :

Clubs have dress standards for a reason. Does this mean that if I go into a nightclub in a Muslim country with my wife wearing a baseball cap & then take them to the International Court for forcing her to wear their clothes?

A more fair comparison would be if your wife went into a club a muslim country, with a crucifix necklace and no headscarf, and they rejected her for not conforming to their beliefs.

In Australian culture (infact, most ‘western’ cultures), the removal of the hat is a sign of respect, you never wear a hat indoors, whether its a baseball cap, a beanie, or even an old top-hat of yesteryear.

The big difference, is if you wear what he wore in Canberra, you might get asked to leave a club. If you wear a crucifix or dont wear a headscarf in their culture, you goto court and probably end up in jail or stoned to death.

vg said :

TP 3000 said :

The comment about your wife’s baseball cap just shows how ignorant and xenophobic you are (you may need to look that word up)

Please explain.

Steady Eddie6:57 am 19 Apr 09

Why do they have to put an apology in The Australian, a paper with about 5 readers in Canberra. Surely the CT would have been sufficient.

TP 3000 said :

Clubs have dress standards for a reason. Does this mean that if I go into a nightclub in a Muslim country with my wife wearing a baseball cap & then take them to the International Court for forcing her to wear their clothes?

Not unless there is a mainstream religion that requires followers to wear them?

But I am sure if for some reason a priest or a nun went to a Muslim country and were asked to remove the commonly worn, well recognised symbols of their religion, they would be able to sue them.

I dare say anyone trying to get into a club in a baseball cap anywhere is likely to be arrested for indecent exposure, even if it is your wife.

Ploise Exploine – what religion is your wife’s baseball cap the uniform for?
Is it scientology?

TP 3000 said :

Clubs have dress standards for a reason. Does this mean that if I go into a nightclub in a Muslim country with my wife wearing a baseball cap & then take them to the International Court for forcing her to wear their clothes?

Don’t shit me. Minque doesn’t have dress standards. It has moronic bouncers who clearly don’t know the difference between a traditional religious garb and a headscarf. Their dress standards are only applied when they don’t liek the look of you. I’ve seen bouncers mates in there in thongs

The comment about your wife’s baseball cap just shows how ignorant and xenophobic you are (you may need to look that word up)

TP and BD .. you don’t work for Minque do you ? You’re certainly showing about the same level of understanding and maturity.

It was rather bizarre to see Bill Stefaniak being interviewed on tonight’s ABC news. He mightn’t be a judge, but as a special magistrate, seeing him talking to the media made me boggle.

TP 3000 said :

Clubs have dress standards for a reason. Does this mean that if I go into a nightclub in a Muslim country with my wife wearing a baseball cap & then take them to the International Court for forcing her to wear their clothes?

Pretty much..
Damned no matter what you do these days.
Oops I said damn, sorry if I offended anyone.

Clubs have dress standards for a reason. Does this mean that if I go into a nightclub in a Muslim country with my wife wearing a baseball cap & then take them to the International Court for forcing her to wear their clothes?

Deadmandrinking2:59 pm 18 Apr 09

+1 to all. All it takes is 1 person to give people like the Minque nightclub management a good clap over the back of the head. Hopefully, stories like this encourage people not to take that kind of crap from anyone.

Would they ask a priest to remove his collar? (On whatever occasion a priest might go in there – I’m not exactly sure, but still…)

grunge_hippy2:56 pm 18 Apr 09

and so you should berraboy! i wouldnt either. how rude.

Ian said :

How dumb are they? What about the guy’s turban did they take offence to?

Probably some rule about wearing hats indoors. Noting that’d rule out Sikh’s, Jews and the Pope going in there too.

A few years ago, my father was told he either had to take his beanie off or leave the Belconnen Soccer Club in McKellar by the Manager. My dad was about to remove the beanie when it was ‘kindly explained’ to the Manager by a member of my family that my father wore the beanie to cover the loss of his hair through Cancer treatment. Naturally dad was very embarrassed. My father died less than ten days later and I’m still so incensed about it that I haven’t been back there since.

Morons.

Yeah – it doesn’t say what the actual problem with the turban was?
Just too different and unusual for them I guess.

What a pack of stupid racist f*cks. Well done to the man for taking them to task

How dumb are they? What about the guy’s turban did they take offence to?

If they were serious about an apology, they would post it on their website.

I saw this in the CT this morning. Good on Mr Pamwa for taking the matter further. Minque’s staff, including the Manager, need crash courses in both mutliculturalism and manners.

“The next question is this: If Minque’s management are this stupid, what else are they getting wrong?”

Well the name for a start – you’d have to say “Minque” makes this place the “Benjiameyjn Beaudean” of nightclubs. Does it have Queanbo origins?

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