8 January 2009

More development for the Belconnen Foreshore?

| johnboy
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The Liberal’s Alistair Coe is drawing attention to plans for a new residential development on Lake Ginninderra.

The 15 apartments are planned to be built on the site of the old Pizza Hut with commercial space below for the sort of mixed use development many people would like to see more of.

Alistair isn’t completely agin in it, yet. But he is asking about the impact on other residences (and possibly other businesses):

    “If approved, there are concerns that noise and traffic from nearby businesses could make the location inappropriate for residences. The area is already suffering from a lack of parking, and increased traffic may worsen the situation.

    Both Queensland and New South Wales consider the order of occupancy when making decisions regarding noise and other similar complaints.

    “Order of occupancy rules can help ensure that existing businesses and residents are given due consideration before changes to an area are approved, or complaints are upheld,” Mr Coe said.

    “The Belconnen Town Centre has seen many great developments and many more should follow. We must ensure that all developments, especially those that include residences, are in locations appropriate for all concerned.”

    “The Lake Ginninderra Foreshore is a great precinct for entertainment, retail, offices and residences.”

    “Clarity would provide certainty for existing businesses and new developers.””

Your thoughts?

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stonedwookie5:06 pm 03 Jul 12

UPDATE:The old pizzahut has been knocked down construction on these flats has started recently.
Stinkey lake is being redeveloped,Checkers is gone all is going well,

Charnwood failed??

Actually, Charny seems to be doing its job of attracting lowlifes and “stabby-stabby” types quite well….

(no offence to the two nice people I know in carnycharny…)

“Anyone been to Page Tavern recently? Whenever I have gone past it seems to be inhabited by bikers, although I can’t say I’ve ever been in there for a drink.”

I go maybe once or twice a month, on average. Very nice people. A bunch of regulars have beards, but I don’t think there are any “bikers” per se.

I’m actually overdue for a visit. I might pop in later tonight!

Aurelius said :

Charnwood failed??

yeah. we all left.

Charnwood failed??

niftydog said :

Oh yeah… Trendy cafes? In Belco? Ha! I’d love to see it.

What part of Belco Mall has the nice sunny aspect and a view of the lake? Why the car park, of course!

Where’s the best bakery in Belco? Hidden in a miserably dark area of the F&V markets, miles from anywhere!

The upcoming developments (mall/bus interchange) will push the focus even further away from Fast Food Alley.

The place is planned by Muppets.

Many years after being shunned from the Mall, Hansel & Gretel’s will get its revenge as the primary focus (as I see it) of the new developments in Belco will be Lathlain Street. I reckon a wise business person would look to establish themseleves there before the developments are completed (eg. the now vacated Koomarri shop).

niftydog: what do you expect? It was rushed into existance when the Public Service finally transitioned up here from Melbourne, using some of the ‘finest forward-thinking’ planning methodologies from the US… and what did we end up with? Charnwood. Lulz.

Deadmandrinking said :

…forcing Pete’s bogan clientele up a few footpaths to the Page Tavern.

Anyone been to Page Tavern recently? Whenever I have gone past it seems to be inhabited by bikers, although I can’t say I’ve ever been in there for a drink.

PM said :

It’s slowly going ahead. Tallest building in ACT, apparently.

Oh good, so the new residences won’t be bothered by that pesky autumn afternoon sun then.

Oh yeah… Trendy cafes? In Belco? Ha! I’d love to see it.

What part of Belco Mall has the nice sunny aspect and a view of the lake? Why the car park, of course!

Where’s the best bakery in Belco? Hidden in a miserably dark area of the F&V markets, miles from anywhere!

The upcoming developments (mall/bus interchange) will push the focus even further away from Fast Food Alley.

The place is planned by Muppets.

justbands said :

…but it’s not allowed to change? … The fast food joints may turn into trendy cafes…

Sure, it can change, but it’s just inherently an ugly part of town. The school isn’t gonna move, maccas isn’t gonna move, the low-rent town houses aren’t gonna move, the uni resis aren’t gonna move, the stinky-storm-water settling pond isn’t gonna move…

The screwed the whole area up because they developed most of it facing the street. Whatever potential the area had to be a nice, lake-side shopping/cafe precinct is totally gone. The only thing that faces the lake behind the newest developments is the bike path!

PM said :

I didn’t know burnouts occurred there frequently, either, but they can occur in any carpark.

And what’s wrong with Checkers?!?!

Head down on Friday night and wait for the lull in between visits by Mr Plod.

Nothing at all wrong with checkers, but I sure wouldn’t want to live next door!

Anyone know what the go is with the sloping block between Checkers and the place in question? Got all fenced off then nothing has happened.

I’d be in favour of public art when it’s a mural from a pub privately paid for 🙂

PM said :

BerraBoy68 – “PM – does the PB still have the mural over the bar of al the regulars (or in fact anybody that wanted to pay for their faces to go up there? “

The current owner bought the place a decade ago or so. The immediately previous owners, Peg and Kev, took the mural down and cut it in half as they moved on – one half for each of them, as a keepsake. I’d have liked to see it.

I agree with deadman – it’s the little things that count when it comes to planning.

Thanks PM. It was a very, very good mural.

BerraBoy68 – “PM – does the PB still have the mural over the bar of al the regulars (or in fact anybody that wanted to pay for their faces to go up there? “

The current owner bought the place a decade ago or so. The immediately previous owners, Peg and Kev, took the mural down and cut it in half as they moved on – one half for each of them, as a keepsake. I’d have liked to see it.

I agree with deadman – it’s the little things that count when it comes to planning.

Danman said :

Ahh blind Beggars – Those were the days – walk in from Hawker flats – get drunk, stumble home or to the residence of that nights fair maiden

more like start at labor club friday night singles party night, get kicked out at closing, stagger to the beggars, get kicked out at closing, greet the dawn after being kicked out of the horse, stagger home to scullin. with or without fair maiden.

PM said :

How can people not have noticed my Pot Belly-laden posts? Of course it’s still there.

PM – does the PB still have the mural over the bar of al the regulars (or in fact anybody that wanted to pay for their faces to go up there? I used to drive him there on occassion so he could paint it. It was pretty cool.

My mates and I used to hang at the PB regulalry in the late 80’s an early 90’s. They had that interactive trivia thing that could b played all round the world. The live music was good though. I even met a girl there that I ended up going out with for 5 years. Ahh, the memories….

It’s a good pub but now sadly not worth travelling to Belco for unless you have another reason to be in the area.

Deadmandrinking1:14 pm 09 Jan 09

Belconnen has a very good community pub feel – unlike civic which is nothing more than a try-hard nightclub area. Planners need to realize that pubs encourage community as well, as well as promoting young talent and offering young people alternatives to the lame-ass volatile scene that is civic.

(My Dad’s going to pick it up on my behalf tomorrow PM, could you tell Joan in case the message doesn’t get through, thanks :))

How can people not have noticed my Pot Belly-laden posts? Of course it’s still there. (Deadman, we’re working out how to get your phone to you.)

There are quite a few changes about to commence in the Belconnen Town Centre. All those who knock it are in for a shock (albeit in 3 years or so). Whilst Belconnen’s changing for the better, though, we need to ensure we don’t lose our neighbourhood/soul. Apartments that will potentially force the Lighthouse to close early or not have music would be disasterous.

Ahh blind Beggars – Those were the days – walk in from Hawker flats – get drunk, stumble home or to the residence of that nights fair maiden

Deadmandrinking12:11 pm 09 Jan 09

Pot Belly is still there and going strong. (Well..it better be, I left my bloody phone there!). The Basement was Pete’s Tavern beforehand, then I assume Darcy’s Den. The Basement is now a venue for live music…forcing Pete’s bogan clientele up a few footpaths to the Page Tavern.

Darcy’s Den has transmutated into the Basement (and it was actually something else in between).

Nah, Pot Belly is still there. Isn’t it?

> Pot Belly

Hang about…the Pot Belly has gone????

And Greggs, Pot Belly, leather Bottle….

Belco is a hole devoid of life these days.

even darcy’s has gone?

what happened to pot belly??

Increasingly, planning authorities in other jurisdictions (but seemingly not the ACT) are being guided by the order of occupancy when determining development issues. For example, areas affected, or potentially affected, by aircraft flight paths are often declared off-limits to developments. So with “lifestyle” blocks that encroach onto agricultural or agri-business precincts, where noise, smells and other by-products could become offensive to people who are unfamiliar with farmyard activities. Another example is with liquor licensing, where inspectors in a number of states are now able to take into consideration the order of occupancy when investigating noise complaints from hotels and other licensed premises. In Queensland, for example, there are now legitimate “first occupancy right”.

The Canberra International Airport has stated that: “We do not support the development of housing estates under aircraft low-flying flight paths. We want to avoid the mistakes of Sydney’s Kingsford Smith Airport”. The recent (and still ongoing) Tralee debate (and the earlier one on the Poplars) is evidence of how controversial these matters can get.

No-one is suggesting that this means there can be no change to land use, or that existing landholders have an inalienable right to block any change – a potential example is wind farms where it could be argued that there are much wider national and global benefits. However, I do suggest that where there is a change of use or activity, then there needs to be proper investigation to ensure that the there is compatibility and awareness by all parties as to the implications. Where there is likely to be conflict, then the onus must be on the proponent to prove that there is a significant enough public interest case before the proposal can be approved.

The fundamental principle here is that is traditionally there has, and should continue to be, clear separation of commercial activities from residential precincts, unless there are compelling reasons to allow it. Likewise with inappropriate scale, density and intensity of development within low density housing areas.

All the best to anyone who wants to live there if they can put up with the noise from Lighthouse & skatepark, plus the stagnant corner of the lake (it has a large stormwater outlet up near the skatepark, but when it’s hot & dry that area can get pretty manky).

I’ve been meaning to try that Ha Ha Bar for months now. I’ve heard really good things about it!

That spot should be a great spot – by the lake and all. i’m not sure why it has ended up so dreggy, but trying to improve it can’t be bad.

I was talking to a friend recently and we both bemoaned the loss of the nightclubs in Weedon close.

what, beggars and the horse?

It’s nicer than it used to be down there (it’s not quite as crowded with smackies as it used to be) and they might even be able to turn that area into quite a nice spot given a few years and some well though development (umm…). There’s already a nice bar (Ha-Ha) and a rather good Chinese joint down there, as well as a few nicer restaurants. Those businesses need some passing traffic and a halfway decent block of flats might be the kickstart the area needs to start improving.

I don’t know if it’ll work, but I’m sure as hell not agin’ it.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy11:02 am 09 Jan 09

Terrible spot. Where are our town planners? There are lots and lots of good spots to build thiungs in Canberra (even in Belco), why the hell would you pick right there??

Genie said :

Its not Kingston – they should give up trying to develop it as if it is.

but jon doesn’t want to go to Kingston. he wants Kingston to come to him!

That would be one of the WORST places to build a block of flats. Why anyone would want to live in between a skatepark, and a pub is beyond me. Plus as a semi-regular to the Lighthouse, I too wouldn’t want it to receive the same fate that Toast did.

If they cant find anyone to release the building they should just knock it down and build something different… If they were going to put apartments down on the lake front, they should have built them where sizzler used to be. Which mind you is currently a bunch of cafes and restaurants plus empty places still yet to be leased. Its not Kingston – they should give up trying to develop it as if it is.

justbands said :

> That has to be the absolute asshole of Belconnen.

Probably true (I don’t really know, I try not to venutre to Belco), but it’s not allowed to change? I’m sure an influx of residents & new business (hence $$$) could go a long way towards cleaning up an area. The fast food joints may turn into trendy cafes, the custom artworks may turn into a nice little gallery, the needles may get cleaned up & the junkies find another haunt, etc.

justbands, to achieve that, you would need a lot of napalm first.

I don’t see needles in that actual part. Junkies may wander down from Emu Ridge though… Belco’s far better than Civic in that regard.

I didn’t know burnouts occurred there frequently, either, but they can occur in any carpark.

And what’s wrong with Checkers?!?!

> That has to be the absolute asshole of Belconnen.

Probably true (I don’t really know, I try not to venutre to Belco), but it’s not allowed to change? I’m sure an influx of residents & new business (hence $$$) could go a long way towards cleaning up an area. The fast food joints may turn into trendy cafes, the custom artworks may turn into a nice little gallery, the needles may get cleaned up & the junkies find another haunt, etc.

Who in their right mind would want to live there?

The stench from the lake mingles nicely with the wafting odours of a dozen fast food outlets. The noise from the skate park is only tempered by the din from the pub and the burnouts in the car park. The neighbourhood kids are full of sugar and fat and just love to paint custom artworks. The locals are happy to let you share their needles, provided you take them to the Checkers van for a hot dog and a donut… good times.

That has to be the absolute asshole of Belconnen.

I’d be worried if I was the owner of The Lighthouse, given the vindication Toast experienced at the hands of the Waldorf… one of the primary reasons involved in it’s closure.

I think Alistair is entirely correct to raise this issue.

The pattern of govt decision making in general is worrying. As a Belco resident myself I’m researching a few matters of interest, and I’ll eventually post them up here, but there’s a pattern of “consultation” actually being “we’re doing this, let us know what the major PR issues are going to be”. It’s almost social engineering by default.

On the issue of noise, I’ve personally (well, as a pub local) experienced dogmatic new tenants nearby complain about the fact they’re next to a pub. Geez, it’d only been there 30 years, what were they thinking? Aside from the fact the market value of the place they moved into would have taken the existance of the pub into account…

or the skate park.

I think it is great, just so long as no wanker whinges about noise from either sails… er the lighthouse…

They need the NSW “I waz here first” laws. That is if you build an apartment next to a hotel etc, you get no say what so ever about noise. I wonder why the Govmint wont do it here?

Felix the Cat8:34 pm 08 Jan 09

The owners of The Lighthouse were on the TV news tonight expressing concern that this proposed nearby residential development could mean the end of his business due to noise restrictions (they have live music there regularly).

The injecting drug users will need to find somewhere new to go if the foreshore is developed. Back to Illawarra Court, I guess.

Nothing wrong with that. Gives the foreshore a living edge.

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