More house, less people

Jazz mentioned that actual building sizes have on average increased from 203sqm to 247sqm, but at the same time the land size has decreased. Back in the “olden days”, the 1/4 acre(or 1000 sqm) was standard, but how rare is it now.

Most newer estates are selling 300 – 400 sqm lots, put a 250 sqm house on it and you have no yard at all. I think we have found a culprit for the obesity epidemic, no backyard to play in for the kidlets…

It’s worth remembering that if you compare the property market of today with, say 10 years ago, you are comparing different times of the cycle. At the end of the 1990’s property had hardly moved in 9-10 years, and the market was significant undervalued, which triggered the last boom. We are now in a relatively fully valued market, that is likely to stagnate for a while. Over time, wages and other prices catch up, and the cycle begins again…

While there are undoubtedly some people with a possible ‘excess’ (depending on your opinion) of space, it is certainly more of a community standard to have a separate space for computer room/study. I’m in a 3 br govie – one adult and three teens. Now, I don’t care about bathrooms (though an extra loo would have been good). BUT in a smaller place, there is the danger of cacophony stress! It drives me crazy when the telly is on at the same time as the computer (think, iTunes blaring) and while I would quite like to catch up on the news on the radio while I am getting dinner on, this will only add to the din. More space means a quieter, less stressful life.

Look no further than ACT Housing mismanagement for the rent squeeze: three inner-Canberra government houses (11 bedrooms) are occupied by a family of two separated adults on welfare, one child of theirs (another, “difficult” child supposedly lives with Gran but only to qualify for an away-from-home allowance) and a nephew on welfare. Total rent paid: about $150 a week between them. Their rent is covered three times over by the market rent they are bringing in on the spare bedrooms (during the six-monthly housing inspections, said bedrooms are turned into “studios” with “daybeds” and the extra “tenants” simply stay away for the afternoon).

Nysaa76 – If house prices increase by only 7% a year on average, and given you can get close to that just by putting your money in the bank its not excessive, then prices should double in about 10 years and nearly triple over 15.

Remember also that far south and far north suburbs in canberra are still very close in compared to other cities.

Try Broome – $800/wk for rent on an unpowered caravan site. Singleton in the Hunter Valley you get a 3 bedroom weatherboard box for the $350-400k. Send your husband of to the gulf or Afghanistan for a couple of months you’ll be able to buy anything you like.

Special G, that’s all well and good if the kids are close in age. Try 9 years apart! My 13yo does not want to share with her 4yo sister and I’m sure she’d want to share with her 8yo brother!

Whilst in Ballarat, I enquired as to the price of this really nice house – 5br, 2bath etc. $200,000 with lots of room.

The same house here? $400-500,000 and less per sqm.

The Canberra real estate market is BS.

I look at the new houses in the far south and far north of Canberra and I wonder how people can pay so much for such a small place when 10-15 years ago they would have paid half, if not a third, of the price for the same house.

I don’t want a Boganvilla. I want a simple 4br house that I can do up myself and sell later on when the kids leave home (if I so choose to do).

What I do have a problem with is having to move interstate to get a better deal than here.

I wonder where whatshisface from the best house in Canberra article has gone – this one is right up his alley. Obviously couldn’t handle the heat.

I have three bedrooms – two big ones and one little. We will have two bubs shortly and when they are a little older they will be sharing number two big bedroom- holy sh&t you say kids sharing a bedroom – crazy business.

One bathroom houses are for poor people.

One bathroom per bedroom and a powder room is what the better class of people in Forrest et. al. have.

Not only is it related to the fewer children we are having now, but an increasing number of families require two houses when parents split up but are sharing care of the kiddies.

LOL at Boganvilla btw!

We do ok here slumming it in 125sqm with just ONE bathroom and ONE living area between three people.

It’s all related in my opinion to the less children we are having now than in the past. I wouldn’t agree that this has any effect on the numbers of houses or suburbs moreover the number of people per house as the stats suggest.

From someone who is currently trying to find a three bedroom house to buy…

While I know this is all true to an extent, I think people are painting everyone with the same brush when it’s not so. The article says that if you were to build a three bedroom house with one bathroom these days, no-one would buy it. I really don’t think this is true. I know plenty of people (myself included) who would jump on the opportunity.

In the new Gungahlin suburbs, the small blocks (usually about 330m2) seem to be the first to go. If you walk around one of these suburbs and have a look at the houses that have been on the market for ages – I can almost guarantee they’ll all be the big ones.

Yes Waffle, O/S lifestyles are “enlightening”. Visited the massive Ikea store south of Brissy over Xmas and within it they have created an entire 2 bedroom house a la the Scandinavian way inside just 50m sq!
It was do-able and potentially livable, but far too much like living in a caravan for moi.

I am all for increasing the carbon foorprint.

Travelling in Japan really put this into perspective for me. A friend was living in a two room apartment, with a little kitchen, bathroom & hall connecting it. It was considered pretty damned good sized accommodation for the area (outskirts of Kyoto, poorer factory-worker area), especially for one person. Her neighbours were almost all families, the largest she knew of being 2 grand parents, 2 parents, 1 child and 1 large dog. This wasn’t considered strange to the locals at all.

When I got home to our 5 bedroom house (for 3 people), I felt a mixture of how lucky we (both my family and Australians in general) are, and how shameful it is that we waste so much space…

Also, why is having larger houses a problem? If people pay for them then that’s up to them. Who are we to tell people where they can and can’t live?

It also drives the market up, which is good for people like me who own more than one property.

People do what they want, and what they can. Houses get bigger and better during the good times (ie last 10 years), and then it all comes back into focus when times get tougher (ie global recession starting).

It’s a growing problem across the country this big house business. The building industry claims they are just responding to market demand, but they won’t ever acknowledge the role they play in shifting people towards the higher expectations, and that they could do so much better if they took on a role as the subject experts in education home buyers to plan their new homes better.

As an example of what can be done, in planning our new house, we analysed what we really needed. The “formal dining room” was the first to go – who uses them anyway? The 4th bedroom for guests was next. Making bedrooms 2 & 3 larger allowed for them to be used by guests during the relatively few times guests stay, with the kids kicked out to the “rumpus/family room” (which is the only room upstairs). An open plan kitchen, dining, lounge saves space otherwise wasted on walls and doors, plus provides a great big area for entertaining. And the overall layout has been designed so that very little space is wasted on hallways.

These few minor changes have big impacts on the overall building footprint, leaving us a sizable back yard despite only being about 550m sq block, and inside the individual rooms are spacious – not the little rabbit warrens that people get when they try to fit 4 bedrooms, 2 dining, 2 living, 2 bathrooms on less than 600m sq.

I’m not advocating a return to the Ainslie govvie, but likewise the Jerra or Gungahlin monster is just not needed. Not to mention how much it costs to build and maintain.

All over our area we have great big houses where people have sunk every $ they can raise into it, but have left nothing for landscaping so live surrounded by dirt and weeds for months or even years.

Roberto: Proof?

roberto, I agree. Although i wasnt directly invovled with tenants when i worked at Housing ACT a few years ago I got a definate impression that the basic expectations of Joe Average had increased. It seemed to me to be refelcted in policy as to what types of properties housing had to buy.

the recession will rectify this.

There’s not a shortage of rental properties if you want to pay $400 a week, that’s for sure.

There’s a shortage of affordable accommodation, though, since almost all the development over the last 5 years has been luxury/premium/McMansions and apparently they require luxury/premium rents.

What about places like Sky Plaza (a McApartment complex) can’t sell ’em and can’t rent ’em?

[May not seem like much but that 0.2 amounts to a need for 8800 additional dwellings in canberra’s current population]

Couldn’t it just be that the 0.2% no longer live in Canberra? Maybe moved interstate or pushing up daisies?

I like it too! It sums up the situation nicely.
I had only heard it before as referring to the Big Brother house and housemates.

I haven’t heard that one Deano. I like it

I much prefer the Aussie term “Boganvilla” over the Yank ‘McMansion’ for describing these wastes of space.

I was only thinking about this the other night as I watered the garden and looked back into my house through the windows. I have a lovely 2 storey house, 2 bedrooms, 2 sitting rooms on a small block of land – just for me. The next 2 houses down the hill are occupied by singles, while directly over the road there are four singles in four houses – each as big as this one, if not bigger.

It’s silly that we all have these huge spaces – but, at the same time, I really love all my “stuff” and don’t want to live somewhere smaller. I like to have the spare bedroom as an office and for when friends come to stay. I am too old and cranky to share with someone who is equally old and cranky! I am not too sure what the solution is.

Its the ‘obesity crisis’ too. Put down the fork you fat bastards so you dont have to build houses with bigger doorways FFS.