9 May 2012

Point to point cameras to hit Athllon Drive

| johnboy
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Justice and Community Safety have announced Athllon Drive between Drakeford and Beasley Street will play host to the second tranche of point to point speed cameras and traffic surveillance.

Executive Director Transport Policy and Regulation, Karen Greenland said budget funding was provided for a second point to point camera site and tenders for the work will soon be called for.

“Point to point cameras installed on Hindmarsh Drive commenced operation in February and we expect cameras to be installed at the second site later this year,” Ms Greenland said.


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magiccar9 said :

damien haas said :

Challenge accepted (insert barney photo)

Race ya’?

Canberra’s version of Cannonball Run.

damien haas said :

Challenge accepted (insert barney photo)

Race ya’?

montana said :

i did the maths, and if it’s correct, you would need to travel from one camera to the other camera in more than 2 mins, 51 seconds.

.

Perhaps that should be LESS than 2 mins 51 seconds.

And I am sure there are other more dangerous ACT roads that should have received these cameras before this fairly benign bit of tarmac.

montana said :

bump.
the cameras are now in operation according to the CT
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/smile-and-slow-down-for-more-pointtopoint-cameras-20130830-2svk3.html

i did the maths, and if it’s correct, you would need to travel from one camera to the other camera in more than 2 mins, 51 seconds.

I doubt anyone will be booked unless going at insane speeds especially through the roundabouts.

Challenge accepted (insert barney photo)

bump.
the cameras are now in operation according to the CT
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/smile-and-slow-down-for-more-pointtopoint-cameras-20130830-2svk3.html

i did the maths, and if it’s correct, you would need to travel from one camera to the other camera in more than 2 mins, 51 seconds.

I doubt anyone will be booked unless going at insane speeds especially through the roundabouts.

OpenYourMind3:52 pm 29 Jun 12

The other thing that gets missed in all these arguments is that it may well be that people do lots of other stupid stuff while driving such as texting, not indicating, following too closely and/or driving a crap car that can’t stop, handle etc. BUT, the difference is that if you knock people’s speed back to the speed limit or less, then the resultant impact will be a whole bunch less. Watch a few car crash test videos to get an idea of how little speed you need to cause an enormous impact.

And just because someone hasn’t died on that particular stretch doesn’t mean it’s not a black spot. If you think cameras are there for revenue raising, then obviously someone must have decided they are financially viable as lots of people speed, or alternatively if you think it’s completely about saving lives, one would hope/expect that sufficient studies have been done to justify that particular location.

c_c said :

Very Busy said :

I note Armco barriers have been installed on Athllon Dr near Beasley Street, presumably to protect the camera infrastructure from damage by stray vehicles. The way this has been done is incredibly dangerous and is yet another demonstration of Government incompetence.

Coe, Coe is that you? Even on the internet that annoying lisp and childish phrasing is apparent.

The decisions about roads are made by the public service. Labor or Liberal in power, it’s the same bureaucratic cog in the machine of limited ability who makes the decision.

A government can either disavow the failing of its bureaucracy and set a course of reform, or it can take ownership of it.

Very Busy said :

I note Armco barriers have been installed on Athllon Dr near Beasley Street, presumably to protect the camera infrastructure from damage by stray vehicles. The way this has been done is incredibly dangerous and is yet another demonstration of Government incompetence.

Coe, Coe is that you? Even on the internet that annoying lisp and childish phrasing is apparent.

The decisions about roads are made by the public service. Labor or Liberal in power, it’s the same bureaucratic cog in the machine of limited ability who makes the decision.

I note Armco barriers have been installed on Athllon Dr near Beasley Street, presumably to protect the camera infrastructure from damage by stray vehicles. The way this has been done is incredibly dangerous and is yet another demonstration of Government incompetence.

The barriers start right near the edge of the roadway. A vehicle hitting this railing head on at the 80kmh speed limit will almost certainly result in life changing injuries or death. These railings can split a car in half or be directed upwards through the windscreen of a car. An infinitely safer method of installation is to have the barrier start well in towards the centre of the median strip and then curve out around towards the edge of the roadway. In the event of a collision the impact will then be absorbed by the whole car and the momentum will deviate the vehicle along the barrier.

The likelihood of cars leaving the road at this point is increased by the fact that a camera is present. People do stupid things around these cameras. The fact that the barriers have been installed at all is an admission that vehicles may go off the road in that location.

This is just another example of pure incompetence by our Government and the lack of interest in genuine road safety. They continually demonstrate that they just don’t have a clue.

So does this mean, that Athllon Drive between Drakeford Drive & Sulwood Drive will be duplicated (finally)?

But on the topic of the speed cameras. Great more people will be crawling along at 70k/h in the right hand lane of Athllon Drive of an aftermpnoon. Only to go straight ahead at the Sulwood Drive roundabout. It is like, you either do the posted speed limit of 80k/h or you move into the left lane & let those who can read pass you.

OpenYourMind10:58 pm 10 May 12

johnboy said :

Look in 10 years time these arguments will be moot because you’ll need a very special licence to be in personal control of a vehicle on the road. Nevada’s just licenced the first self driving cars and both car manufacturers and government will be all for getting the useless meatbags out from behind the wheel.

Totally agree with your comments JohnBoy, however even this optimist thinks 10 years is a bit short a timeframe. The move to completely autonomous cars is going to change so many aspects of our society that it’s hard to imagine. Concepts of traffic laws, road construction, car ownership etc. all may change. From the simplest things like whether car parks are required, transporting children and disabled through to new ways to deliver goods – send your car to get your six pack :-).

People don’t realise just how quickly the minor technologies are creeping in that will lead to the big shifts. Our cars already have control over our braking (stability control/abs, pre-emptive braking), our acceleration (drive by wire) and our steering (self parking, lane following cruise, traffic jam assist). Governments will be drawn to the promise of massively diminished road tolls, law enforcement and reduced infrastructure costs not to mention the big brother possibilities.

Watch a few videos on the Google car and you’ll get the picture.

dvaey said :

Firstly, the average would only be 60km/hr if the 40km/hr parts were equal to the 80km/hr parts.

Mathematical fail. If you travel a distance at 80km/h and then an equal distance at 40km/h, your mean speed over the whole distance is a bit over 53 km/h – not 60km/h.

dvaey said :

gooterz said :

Instead of people actually watching the road they’ll be forever staring at their speedo’s. You will see those 270 accidents turn into 1000’s.

You can’t even easilly do the road at an average of 80km/h

Hang on, which is it? Is it difficult to average 80km/hr or is it so easy that drivers will have to be constantly checking their speedos?

gooterz said :

… so whats to bet the ACT revenue raising Labor will take that as not giving the road a total average of 80 and factor that some parts are done at 40km/h. Maving the total average like 60 or so. So a person who does do 80 late at night will get a fine just because they didnt slow down at the slow bits like Labor thought they would.

Firstly, the average would only be 60km/hr if the 40km/hr parts were equal to the 80km/hr parts. Also, the cameras arent there to catch the person who travels at 81km/hr, or even the person who accidently lets their car slip upto 90 on occasion.. the cameras are there to catch those drivers who travel the entire 5km distance (including negotiating the roundabouts) at excess speed. Im still confused though as you stated that its not easy to reach an average of 80km/hr, but keep coming up with excuses why someone might. Do you believe that the reason why its not possible to easily average 80km/hr is due to safety reasons? If so, where is the problem?

gooterz said :

How come the north side gets overpasses and south side gets speed camera’s.

OT, but maybe you havent noticed the bloomin great big overpass being build across Drakeford? We get overpasses in the South too, or is there some meaning of overpass that I dont understand? Your question was pretty vague in the first instance.

I guess you dont see those people that put on the brakes doing 80 in a 100 zone going past the fixed speed cameras!
Those same people will likely slow down when nearing the speed camera just incase. Not everyone will realise that roundabouts will lower their average speed, so as a result they will constantly be checking their speedo’s (even tho they would likely be nowhere near the limit).

For the last part of your post i dont think you get what i said:

Government installs millon dollar speed cameras! The only people they will catch are those that travel at well about the speed limit. So they say we didnt consider the roundabouts and make an assumption that people will spend x time at them and increase the cuttoff of time requred to get fined. The fine should reflect 80km/h for the whole distance, this wont make money and anything else wouldnt be fair. So all in all its a stupid idea.

As for overpasses i mean for roads.. so traffic doesnt queue at the intersection.

In the same motion the round about on yarra glen is useless and prone to accidents and should be replaced with a single bridge

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

You mean except installing red light cameras, pulling people over for driving while texting, rolling out RAPID (which sucks up unregistered scumbags like a vacuum cleaner) and RBTs?

That’s fine, but they have chosen to install P2P cameras instead of more redlight cameras, and I haven’t been RBTed in many a year. Although a couple of friends have been done for using their phones and I’ve seen cars-sans-plates on the side of the road as a result of RAPID, so I guess on average my very-small-sample-size survey of all traffic enforcement cancels itself out.

So a couple of fatalities occur due to EXCESSIVE speeding and the ACT Government decide that the solution is to put up P2P cameras so that they can book drivers who go a little over the limit. This seems to be the case for both Hindmarsh Drive and now Athllon Drive.

The Irony is that these P2P cameras may miss the most dangerous part of Athllon Drive which is where it intersects with Mawson Drive. There are at least 4 schools on the western side of Athllon Drive in Torrens and Pearce. In peak periods this intersection is littered with schoolkids of all ages who cross Athllon Drive to get to the Mawson shops on the eastern side. Kids have been hit by cars at this intersection in the past and I believe it is only a matter of time before there is a fatality there. So the ACT Government, under the guise of “safety” install P2P cameras close by and a do sweet FA to address a genuine safety issue in the immediate vicinity.

Even if the Mawson Drive intersection is included in the section monitored by the P2P cameras, that creates more danger in itself. Forcing drivers’ attention to be diverted to their speedometers instead of their surroundings when crossing busy intersections is just plain idiotic.

Yes, use P2P cameras if you must, but FFS use just a little bit of common sense when deciding on their placement.

……and no, I’ve never been given an infringement for breaking the law while going through a camera of any kind.

gooterz said :

Instead of people actually watching the road they’ll be forever staring at their speedo’s. You will see those 270 accidents turn into 1000’s.

You can’t even easilly do the road at an average of 80km/h

Hang on, which is it? Is it difficult to average 80km/hr or is it so easy that drivers will have to be constantly checking their speedos?

gooterz said :

… so whats to bet the ACT revenue raising Labor will take that as not giving the road a total average of 80 and factor that some parts are done at 40km/h. Maving the total average like 60 or so. So a person who does do 80 late at night will get a fine just because they didnt slow down at the slow bits like Labor thought they would.

Firstly, the average would only be 60km/hr if the 40km/hr parts were equal to the 80km/hr parts. Also, the cameras arent there to catch the person who travels at 81km/hr, or even the person who accidently lets their car slip upto 90 on occasion.. the cameras are there to catch those drivers who travel the entire 5km distance (including negotiating the roundabouts) at excess speed. Im still confused though as you stated that its not easy to reach an average of 80km/hr, but keep coming up with excuses why someone might. Do you believe that the reason why its not possible to easily average 80km/hr is due to safety reasons? If so, where is the problem?

gooterz said :

How come the north side gets overpasses and south side gets speed camera’s.

OT, but maybe you havent noticed the bloomin great big overpass being build across Drakeford? We get overpasses in the South too, or is there some meaning of overpass that I dont understand? Your question was pretty vague in the first instance.

I think point-to-point cameras are the least of our worries. In 10 yrs time there will be police/traffic drones flying overhead controlling the speed of cars, stopping the cars at red lights.

The rev heads better have their fun while they can.

poetix said :

And yet, if the car could be overridden (!), it might not be when there was a genuine safety issue. (I suppose there could be some kind of kill switch, that allowed you to drive a short distance only, if there was a fault detected by the driver.) No Big Brother worries, anyone?

http://reviews.cnet.com/2300-10863_7-10008913.html
These work pretty well suited for one purpose though

When I hear about cars that drive themselves, I remember the GPS that told me to drive up a fire trail recently. Eventually it became clear that this was wrong and we turned around, but if the car’s systems couldn’t be overridden, this would be dangerous. I know all systems take time to improve, but aren’t there iproblems inherent in having locked in technology? And yet, if the car could be overridden (!), it might not be when there was a genuine safety issue. (I suppose there could be some kind of kill switch, that allowed you to drive a short distance only, if there was a fault detected by the driver.) No Big Brother worries, anyone?

This is the worst idea ever! A new low for ACT Labor!
How soon can we get the liberals in!

Instead of people actually watching the road they’ll be forever staring at their speedo’s. You will see those 270 accidents turn into 1000’s.

You can’t even easilly do the road at an average of 80km/h, so whats to bet the ACT revenue raising Labor will take that as not giving the road a total average of 80 and factor that some parts are done at 40km/h. Maving the total average like 60 or so. So a person who does do 80 late at night will get a fine just because they didnt slow down at the slow bits like Labor thought they would.

They’d have to do this eventually because there is no way they could actually get someone breaking the limit otherwise and expose this shoddy revenue raiser for what it is!. So if anyone is fined by this its because labor have fudged the system (Much like their timesheets).

In the spirit of open government they should release minimum times needed to pass from point A to point B using minimum path too not the outer edge of the round about.

How come the north side gets overpasses and south side gets speed camera’s. Does ACT labor want to give up the south so easily! If the liberals said south side would get an overpass instead if they were elected they’d shoe in the election!

The other stupid thing with this which is a major problem and clearly not thought of is that wont people just take alternate routes? Why is Labor hellbent on screwing around with traffic flow. If you want to curb accidents build an overpass like is required that way you actually help canberrians by getting rid of one of canberra’s worst bottlenecks.

Plus you lose points for embargoing this until the morning after of budget day.

#WORSTPARTYEVER

If these cameras make at least some self-absorbed wankers stop driving like they are on a racetrack, I’ll be happy.

I’m so sorry the speed limits piss so many of you off.

However, as long as you wankers continue to tailgate and demonstrate your impatience with speed limits and your apparent God given right to drive 100kph on 80kph roads, I will continue to allow you to tailgate me while I take my good sweet time to safely move into the left lane.

Cheers.

Forgive me, that sentence is meant to read “…take human error OUT of the equation…”.

They’ll want to built a lot more tracks and facilities if it becomes the only way any of us get to actually drive a car anymore 🙁

johnboy said :

Look in 10 years time these arguments will be moot because you’ll need a very special licence to be in personal control of a vehicle on the road.

You say that like it’s a bad thing. The vast majority of people who die on the roads are killed as a result of incompetence/recklessness. If you can take human error of the equation with driver-less, automated cars then why not require people who wish to drive manually to prove themselves exceptionally qualified to do so? 😐 Please tell me, I’m not asking rhetorically.

It’ll be a sad day for many generations of drivers. But a better day for humanity in general.

And no more DUI should open up some social possibilities.

The A.C.T. government seem to be going against there own advice that the cameras should be placed on sections of road with out any turnoffs. Seems pointless and just revenue raising to set them up on a section of road with six turnoffs in between cameras.

More Labour Waste

Evil_Kitten said :

I hope I’m dead and buried well before driving stops being fun.

You can drive for fun at your private track day.

I hope I’m dead and buried well before driving stops being fun.

Woody Mann-Caruso10:02 pm 09 May 12

(And gotta love typical Rioter speed camera logic: no point putting a camera there, because nobody speeds, and there are roundabouts, and it’s just revenue raising. Where does the revenue come from if nobody speeds, muppets?)

Woody Mann-Caruso9:59 pm 09 May 12

Let’s not do anything about the obscene number of people running red lights, driving while texting, driving unregistered or drink driving.

You mean except installing red light cameras, pulling people over for driving while texting, rolling out RAPID (which sucks up unregistered scumbags like a vacuum cleaner) and RBTs? Yeah, nobody’s doing anything about that stuff. The government should do more! But only about other people – not me, because then it’d be a nanny state.

But keep sulking because you think The Man is only picking on the crimes you commit. One day your car won’t start if it’s not registered, won’t break the speed limit because it’ll be programmed not to, and pervasive surveillance will dob you in if you try to get around it. [nelson] Ha ha! [/nelson]

Look in 10 years time these arguments will be moot because you’ll need a very special licence to be in personal control of a vehicle on the road. Nevada’s just licenced the first self driving cars and both car manufacturers and government will be all for getting the useless meatbags out from behind the wheel.

Evil_Kitten said :

Can anyone tell me if the cameras at each end are a stand alone speed camera as well?

ie. regardless of what speed you “average”, if you go past either one at higher than 80, can you get done?

I’m thinking not because they’d be set up to take the TIME at each end, not the SPEED. Am I correct?

A. By the look of them, no not speed cameras, simply one camera per lane to register plates. That is consisten with the TAMS description as well. There is technology that can double as both (instant and average) but these do not look like those. eg. a combined (average/fixed) would be more useful on say on Gungahlin Drive (also planned for P2P) which has a number of on and off points.

Can anyone tell me if the cameras at each end are a stand alone speed camera as well?

ie. regardless of what speed you “average”, if you go past either one at higher than 80, can you get done?

I’m thinking not because they’d be set up to take the TIME at each end, not the SPEED. Am I correct?

As has been pointed out, the one fatal accident the press release refers to involved considerable alcohol. In the same way, I believe the reference to the (one) fatality on Hindmarsh Drive did NOT occur in the section monitored by the cameras, but at the Mugga Lane intersection, involving a truck which somehow ‘lost’ its brakes, and collided with a motorist complying with a green light.

Facts are being distorted so that these cameras can be ‘justified’.

Interesting that 100% of these things are going in in South Canberra. Guess we’re speedier, richer, and too far away to drop wheelies outside our (mainly northside) political master’s residences.

Don’t remember the Labor Party campaigning to introduce these things in the last election. Along with their hatred of motorsport, maybe the Motorists/Canberra Alliance(?)/Liberals can campaign on reducing the imposts of the Speed Kills mentality of Govco, and perhaps use our finest AFP to start nabbing the red light runners, the mobile texters, the right lane slowpokes et al.

Reprobate said :

Hmmm. I had a look at this early article about the Hindmarsh Dr P2P cameras http://the-riotact.com/point-to-point-camera-legislation-introduced/49220 to try and clarify whether the actual location was pinpointed then (it wasn’t) and notice that Simon Cobell said that the GDE would be the next site. Today’s CT article suggested that Parkes Way was going to be next but roadworks had put that on hold. I wonder if political considerations about yet another unpopular GDE-related issue were a factor in deciding to go with Athllon Drive instead…

Im wondering how much this decision has to do with the speed increase on GDE from 80 to 90. When the road was signposted at 80, it was an obvious choice for speed cameras. Now that the speed limit is more sensible, speed cameras would make substantially less revenue.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

So why can’t we have P2P cameras at places that would actually be useful? Like school zones, for example?

The theory is meant to be that speed cameras arent setup in school zones since those areas are high-risk enough to warrant enforcement by real police officers.

The fact that the last part of that theory is rarely implemented (except in view of the news cameras on back-to-school days), kinda lets the whole idea down though.

carnardly said :

The fatality was 2 young lads that were going very fast with a driver who had too much alcohol in his system who overcooked the roundabout at Athllon and Sulwood Drive one night in the wee small hours. They went airborne and landed in the storm water drain but weren’t noticed for a while.

Not sure a speed camera would’ve resulted in a different outcome.

It wasn’t the roundabout that got them at all – it was the reverse-cambered right-hand kink just past a crest going into a roundabout that got them. There aren’t many worse-designed or more dangerous bits of road in Canberra.

You never know, the sight of a speed camera could have got through to him in his drunken state and madfe him twig he was going to quickly. I’m not a fan of speed cameras, but in the absence of actually fixing the poorly-designed bit of road, perhaps a camera could have saved those two guys’ lives?

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

So why can’t we have P2P cameras at places that would actually be useful? Like school zones, for example?

Or a road like Majura.

RaTTyRaTT said :

I love the irony of watching people chug up the hill at Hindmarsh (either way) then ZOOOOM down the other end… nothing like using the law of averages to help you speed… 🙂 Ahh dumbarses… (ACTGOV that is…)

no….the real irony is when those downhill speeders see the police set up for roadside speed detection.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back4:14 pm 09 May 12

So why can’t we have P2P cameras at places that would actually be useful? Like school zones, for example?

carnardly said :

The fatality was 2 young lads that were going very fast with a driver who had too much alcohol in his system who overcooked the roundabout at Athllon and Sulwood Drive one night in the wee small hours. They went airborne and landed in the storm water drain but weren’t noticed for a while.

Not sure a speed camera would’ve resulted in a different outcome.

Actually they didn’t make the roundabout with the car leaving the Athlon about 100 metres before it and the car ending up crushed against a bridge on Sulwood about 50 metres from the roundabout. It was very traumatic for the people who had to deal with it. If speed cameras were installed and the driver was aware of same maybe it would have been a different outcome; probably would have come to grief a bit further on.

Hmmm. I had a look at this early article about the Hindmarsh Dr P2P cameras http://the-riotact.com/point-to-point-camera-legislation-introduced/49220 to try and clarify whether the actual location was pinpointed then (it wasn’t) and notice that Simon Cobell said that the GDE would be the next site. Today’s CT article suggested that Parkes Way was going to be next but roadworks had put that on hold. I wonder if political considerations about yet another unpopular GDE-related issue were a factor in deciding to go with Athllon Drive instead…

Agreed. I was overtaken going east on the Hindmarsh section the other day by a couple of cars doing well over 80. “Fools” I thought, “don’t they know?” Well, the knew well enough, since they turned left down Tamar St before the other cameras would see them.

Another problem with having P2P cameras on this stretch of road is that there are 3 exit roads that people can exit out of and not ever have their speed measured. So really this will only ever catch those people who travel all the way from beasley to drakeford.

P2P only works well on roads whre you there is no reason to stop, slow down or turn off an exit.

whole plan is pretty silly actually.

djk said :

As menitoned above, if the area being monitored is from Drakeford to Beasley, how the hell will they ever catch anyone doing an average speed over 80 when there are 2 roundabouts over that stretch?

No numbers/maths to back it up, but I would think that even in the middle of the night with no traffic, you could just about go as fast as you like along the straight bits because having to slow to say 40 and go through the roundabout will bring your average speed down by enough not to worry.

And if it was peak hour, well you may as well go 150 on the straight bits because the backed up traffic at the roundabouts will easily get the average below 80.

ACTGovCo will be relying on people not actually doing the maths; the vast majority will simply treat it as a hard 80kmh limit, and not exceed 80kmh under any circumstances along the entire stretch. Mission accomplished. Trouble is, it’s a fcking dopey mission.

Oh no, now people won’t be able to speed along Athllon Drive anymore. I’m not sure how I’ll sleep at night.

There’s a lot of angst about these things; Zed’s obviously making the right call with his election campaign, as JB said yesterday!

These things aren’t that big a deal. “Safety Cameras” is obviously a stupid name for them, and although they shouldn’t have much of an impact, they effectively reduce your travelling speed by 10km/h if there’s any traffic around (as is the experience with speed cameras on the Tuggeranong Parkway, and the other set of point to point cameras on Hindmarsh). But really, this is just a way of having an automated patrol. Cheaper than a real cop, and probably more effective, given my experience this morning.

As menitoned above, if the area being monitored is from Drakeford to Beasley, how the hell will they ever catch anyone doing an average speed over 80 when there are 2 roundabouts over that stretch?

No numbers/maths to back it up, but I would think that even in the middle of the night with no traffic, you could just about go as fast as you like along the straight bits because having to slow to say 40 and go through the roundabout will bring your average speed down by enough not to worry.

And if it was peak hour, well you may as well go 150 on the straight bits because the backed up traffic at the roundabouts will easily get the average below 80.

I love the irony of watching people chug up the hill at Hindmarsh (either way) then ZOOOOM down the other end… nothing like using the law of averages to help you speed… 🙂 Ahh dumbarses… (ACTGOV that is…)

Even the Cops are doing it actually… (also saw them speeding along Adelaide Ave, they weren’t in a hurry, just speeding… must have been donut time at Civic watch house.)

This is so stupid. The only people who cause a hazard along there are the idiots who do 60 in the 80 zone, banking up traffic on a road way that really should be (and is built to become) dual carriage way.

The only accidents I’ve seen in those parts are from people being tail ended or broad sided, on a roundabout or at an intersection.

But no, this government needs to make up for a budget shortfall so let’s tax the straight stretch.

If the government were serious about road safety, they’d have more police out doing something about dangerous drivers. Not the guy doing 90 in an 80 zone in a straight line, but the imbecile doing 70 in an 80 zone swerving in and out of traffic while on a phone.

The section covered would logically (big assumption with ACT Govo, I know) only be between Beazley St traffic lights and Sulwood Drive roundabout, that’s the area where the cam vans set up at the moment – mostly Woden bound. Interesting that, like Hindmarsh, the stretch will be an 80km/h zone subject to a rise and fall in both directions.

I’d also lay money that most of the 246 crashes over 4 years would have occured at lower speeds at the intersections or numptys slamming on their brakes for buses pulling out from one of the 2 uphill bus stops into 80km/h traffic. And P2P speed cameras would only have provided one last snapshot of the hoons involved in the fatal rather than preventing that kind of crash.

That is interesting, about the two roundabouts. How will they determine the average speed? Will they take into account the time for stopping at each roundabout? What if someone is driving at 2am in the morning with no other traffic around, doesn’t need to come to a complete stop at each roundabout. Will they get pinged for going over as an average even though they did not go over the posted limit?

buzz819 said :

Are they going all the way from Drakeford up to Beasley? That’s going around like 3 or 4 roundabouts and I can’t remember a fatal crash occurring along that stretch of road in recent history?

it has two roundabouts, and therefore it makes no sense to me to put a P2P camera on that stretch of road. don’t know about anyone else, but I often have to stop at one or both roundabouts during any time of the day or night. so unless I am doing a ridiculous speed between the roundabouts, I can’t see how I would ever be booked.

Yeah this idea that speeding causes all accidents and deaths really gets to me. Most of the time, when I see someone driving badly, they are either, on the phone, elderly, distracted by other people in the car or playing with their GPS.

I do see a lot of people speed past also, however if say something crossed in front of both a speeding vehicle or distracted/bad driver I dare say the results would be the same.

A greater police presence is really whats needed, and from what I’ve been told get more vehicle inspectors out there, so the police can police proper crimes and traffic offences. It would also help if the paperwork wasn’t so onorous for the police. No I’m not a cop, but I know plenty.

The fatality was 2 young lads that were going very fast with a driver who had too much alcohol in his system who overcooked the roundabout at Athllon and Sulwood Drive one night in the wee small hours. They went airborne and landed in the storm water drain but weren’t noticed for a while.

Not sure a speed camera would’ve resulted in a different outcome.

Holden Caulfield said :

Well they’ve certainly had an effect on Hindmarsh. It’s such a pain in the arse to drive that road now. I don’t have a huge problem with the general concept, but it’s the downhill run that sucks, especially if you’re behind someone who is on and off the brakes every few seconds.

Car goes down a cog or two, brain goes into neutral … it’s the only way to retain sanity.

The “Safety Camera” euphemism is wearing VERY thin, though …

Holden Caulfield10:39 am 09 May 12

Well they’ve certainly had an effect on Hindmarsh. It’s such a pain in the arse to drive that road now. I don’t have a huge problem with the general concept, but it’s the downhill run that sucks, especially if you’re behind someone who is on and off the brakes every few seconds.

buzz819 said :

Are they going all the way from Drakeford up to Beasley? That’s going around like 3 or 4 roundabouts and I can’t remember a fatal crash occurring along that stretch of road in recent history?

There was a fatality at Athllon and Sulwood just a few years ago.

If they really want to change driver behaviour put cameras everywhere, that will ensure Joe average gets shafted and those like Justin Monfries will continue with absolutely no regard for anyone. These cameras are no replacement for Police.

”I’ve checked with the camera office and they have told me that since the site commenced operation [on February 27] up until May 4, they’d issued just over 1000, so that’s really averaging about 100 a week. From a road-safety perspective, that’s got to be a success, getting that number of people to slow down and anecdotally, people who use that road on a regular basis report that it’s a very different experience using it now than prior to the cameras’ operation. I think there would be a lot of people who are grateful that they don’t feel the pressure of the constant speed of vehicles on that road.”

And this in spite of a 12 month period without fatalities on our roads. Two fatalies since – one purely an accident, and the other the result of a criminal in a stolen vehicle. But apparently speeding is still the biggest bogeyman, causing all sorts of carnage and mayhem on our roads. Let’s not do anything about the obscene number of people running red lights, driving while texting, driving unregistered or drink driving. Let’s just pretend we’re improving “road safety” and make cash instead.

Is it coincidence that the ACT government’s revenue from speed cameras for the year was down on its estimates, and now we’re getting more point to point cameras? I don’t think so. They haven’t even had enough time to properly evaluate the effectiveness of the first set of cameras.

Are they going all the way from Drakeford up to Beasley? That’s going around like 3 or 4 roundabouts and I can’t remember a fatal crash occurring along that stretch of road in recent history?

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