6 May 2010

More Supermarkets

| johnboy
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If we lived in a sane municipality supermarket operators would buy land in suitably zoned areas based on perceived needs in the market.

But because this is not a sane municipality the central government decides where supermarkets will be, and who will operate them.

Witness the Chiefly Stanhope announcing second supermarkets for Dickson and Kingston, and new supermarkets for Casey (2 there in fact) and Amaroo.

Specifically:

Mr Stanhope said the Government had decided:

— Kingston – To release a site in the Eyre Street car park for a 3400 sq metre Supabarn supermarket as part of a mixed development;
— Dickson – To release a site for a large format supermarket to all players, except the incumbent Woolworths. The site, on the large surface car park adjacent to Woolworths, would be available for a store in excess of 2500 sq m;
— Casey – To release sites for ALDI and Supabarn, with a possible further release in three years for a large format supermarket site; and
— Amaroo – To release a site for a large format supermarket, with Woolworths and Coles excluded from participating.

Inner Northicans welcome a competitor to the widely loathed Woolworths, but we await with interest exactly where we will park while the new complex is built.

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seanneko said :

georgesgenitals said :

What’s wrong with Woolies? Our local is a Woolies and they’re pretty good, although they do get pretty busy at peak times.

The range of products is terrible, it’s dirty, and way too crowded. Sometimes I can spend 10-15 minutes queueing up there to get through the express checkout.

I love how people complain about the big two having a duopoly, then complain how crap they are. Obviously plenty of people think they have something to offer or they wouldn’t be making so much money.

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t complain about big supermarkets under pricing smaller independents (being ‘competitive’) then call it anti-competitive behaviour. You can’t claim they are inferior in price, range, service, cleanliness, whatever then demand government intervention to reduce their market share. They are successful because they are giving customers what they want – longer opening hours, lower prices, bigger range, convenience. If other supermarkets want more market share they need to offer some of this (as ALDI has done).

Snarky said :

bd84 said :

For example, Aldi has some cheaper prices, but little range, quality or customer service, adding them to the market has done just about nothing.

Um, have you actually shopped there?

But Snarky, why should people limit themselves to posting on things they have actual knowledge of when they can make bland, vacuous generalisations on every single topic?

Re Aldi, I agree with you – we made the switch from Coles to Aldi two years ago and have been able to cut back the weekly grocery budget from $200 to $100. No quality worries at all and in fact most of Aldi’s meat and F&V is better than what we were getting at Coles.

1, Donner shops is closed because Blackett Homes want to redevelop the site.

2, Woolies Dickson is a lot better now they have the self check out lanes.

3, coles and woolies do have good fresh produce, its just too many people touch it before you get the chance to buy it. If you go on the days that it is fresh on the shelf it is great.

4, I thought they were building the Aldi in the smaller car park behind the library.

5, I do still think more local shopping is a great idea, I live in Kaleen and shop between the IGA and the Supa Barn, I think they are both great. Also Choku by jo in North Lyneham is great for fresh produce.

bd84 said :

For example, Aldi has some cheaper prices, but little range, quality or customer service, adding them to the market has done just about nothing.

Um, have you actually shopped there? Aldi has quite a good range – it has little variety within that range though. It’s prices are markedly cheaper overall and WRT quality of goods I’ve found only one duff choice in there (steer clear of the fish fillets in a can). Although I do my fruit and veg shopping at CIT markets, when I have bought F&V from Aldi it’s been consistently better quality and freshness than I get from Woolies or Coles.

I don’t know exactly how much of an inroad Aldi’s made to the Canberra market but these days 70% of my dry grocery dollars go to Aldi rather than Coles or Woolies, with another 20% to our local shops. Coles and Woolies get the 10% remainder, down from 70%. I may be unique in swapping over, but I doubt it.

troll-sniffer said :

One thing about Woolies I have found is that they cater exclusively for the bogan market. Whatever turns over fastest on the shelves, superior but slightly slower moving items disappear. I can’t count the number of items that I’ve started to enjoy only to find they’ve disappeared to be replaced by the latest thing advertised on reality TV.

Coles is a bit better, at least at Manuka they tend to have some pretence at quality stock.

Supa Barn is way out in front, the best of the bunch. Couple of bucks more in the shopping basket… who cares? At least there are some exotic items scattered through the other mindlessly consumerist junk.

But between you and me, I’m glad Woolies is able to attract the bogans like bogong moths to a flame (I’ve waited a long time to use that) because it means I don’t have them clogging up the aisles in my local quality supermarket.

So you just accused the majority of businesses in Australia (and the world) and the world of catering for the “bogan” market. The purpose of running a business is to make money, to make money you need to stock products that consumers want (the ones that sell in quantities and return value), therefore it would be common sense that if products do not sell that they would be replaced with new or different ones. Businesses that stock their shelves with products that one guy in Canberra happened to like will go broke in about a week.

benett said :

Anybody that thinks Woolworths is providing A-Grade service and prices for shoppers are seriously deluded. More competition the better. I cannot see how this could be anything but a good move for shoppers. Nothing more needs to be said.

True, but new players in the market do not automatically mean that you will get great prices and services either. For example, Aldi has some cheaper prices, but little range, quality or customer service, adding them to the market has done just about nothing. Supabarn has some range, some slightly better service but are more expensive, impact on competition, again not much.

JC said :

Rawhide Kid No 2 said :

Didn’t the local government do this with Petrol Stations a few years ago by letting a company from WA (I think)rent free set up along Wentworth in Kingston. Once the free rent finished the company disappeared.

That was Gull and they weren’t just on Wentworth Ave there were several places and they sold their sites to Woolworths.

No JC
That was Burmah

There was a second supermarket at Dickson until about 12 years ago but it went out of business …

Anybody that thinks Woolworths is providing A-Grade service and prices for shoppers are seriously deluded. More competition the better. I cannot see how this could be anything but a good move for shoppers. Nothing more needs to be said.

Downer shops could be easily turned around.

It went bust because the supermarket there was the worst ever – worse even than dickson woolies, and stank. but that was in the days of mostly pensioners at Downer. Now Downer is full of young families and cashed up couples, a more expensive, but nicer supermarket could do really really well.

Downer shops also has that lovely courtyard, and is crying out for a cafe.

Hackett shops was nearly down and out (reduced to a very dodgy supermarket), and was bought out, improved, and is now starring on with a thriving IGA and a great cafe, and more shops to come I think.

There is no reason downer shops couldn’t do just as well – not everyone wants to put up with woolies for the sake of saving 5 bucks.

troll-sniffer3:44 pm 07 May 10

One thing about Woolies I have found is that they cater exclusively for the bogan market. Whatever turns over fastest on the shelves, superior but slightly slower moving items disappear. I can’t count the number of items that I’ve started to enjoy only to find they’ve disappeared to be replaced by the latest thing advertised on reality TV.

Coles is a bit better, at least at Manuka they tend to have some pretence at quality stock.

Supa Barn is way out in front, the best of the bunch. Couple of bucks more in the shopping basket… who cares? At least there are some exotic items scattered through the other mindlessly consumerist junk.

But between you and me, I’m glad Woolies is able to attract the bogans like bogong moths to a flame (I’ve waited a long time to use that) because it means I don’t have them clogging up the aisles in my local quality supermarket.

I think this is a good idea (got to be the first time I’ve agreed with Stanhope for many years). Supermarket cartels are a great example of market failure, and this policy will help to balance things up a bit.

Rawhide Kid No 2 said :

Didn’t the local government do this with Petrol Stations a few years ago by letting a company from WA (I think)rent free set up along Wentworth in Kingston. Once the free rent finished the company disappeared.

That was Gull and they weren’t just on Wentworth Ave there were several places and they sold their sites to Woolworths.

There was a ‘supermarket’ at Downer shops. It went broke (like every other store at the Downer shops) because of the competition from Dickson.

Rawhide Kid No 212:30 pm 07 May 10

Didn’t the local government do this with Petrol Stations a few years ago by letting a company from WA (I think)rent free set up along Wentworth in Kingston. Once the free rent finished the company disappeared.

+1000 Sepi and GG – Increased competition from smaller/independent supermarkets is important but I can’t understand why Downer shops remains bordered up and useless while traffic congestion around Dickson is only going to get worse with another large Coles in the vacinity with decreased parking spaces.

Iorwerth said :

First thing – anything for less car-parking I say – lazy bums (and probably therefore fat bums) walk, get a bike and ride, or even just maybe if really desperate catch a bus…

How about shopping for a family of 4 + dog? Numerous bags, heavy items and kids in tow are not the easiest for bike riding. I’ll ride for a small shop but will drive for larger qauntities. We don’t need less car parking, we need more of it.

Gungahlin Al9:00 am 07 May 10

urchin said :

perhaps if there were true competition instead of a market largely dominated by two players your theory might work. alas, that is not the case. what underlies the decision-making process i don’t know but surely making sure we get more competition is a good thing.

Indeed. There’s no mythical ‘invisible hand’ of the free market here when you have such an oligopoly. The enforced broadening of competition is welcome. Remember they didn’t say who could bid where – just that the big two could not bid in certain places.

Amaroo residents will certainly be pleased to finally get something on that long-empty land.

Now we need one between Harrison and Franklin.

Iorwerth said :

First thing – anything for less car-parking I say – lazy bums (and probably therefore fat bums) walk, get a bike and ride, or even just maybe if really desperate catch a bus…

Ordinarily I’d agree with this sentiment, but shopping for staples is basically the one situation where you really do want a car, as you can easily buy more stuff than you can carry or put on the bus. I walk to Dickson for dinner but I’d never walk there for the supermarket.

Although having said that, I do pretty much all my shopping at my local and only go to Dickson where there’s something I want that the local doesn’t have in stock at the time, like if they’re out of nori *again* and I feel like sushi. I only drive for that if I’m extremely pressed for time, otherwise I jump on my bike and make it my exercise for the day.

Finally, some competition for Woolies in Dickson… The only worse Woolies in Canberra is the one in Charnwood, and they arguably still check out customers faster! As for the parking conundrum….I only wonder how tough it’s going to be to navigate while they’re building this new supermarket (which could take months).

Though a supermarket in Downer is also a good idea – it’d take pressure off Dickson’s roads (which can get very busy) and possibly revitalise the long-closed Downer shops…

I thought there was going to be an Aldi where the old TAB was in Dickson? What’s going in there if not?

Perfect example of why a government can never win. If they just advertise these new blocks and leave it to the market to buy them people will complain when the more powerful groups get hold of the land. If they restrict access they (rightly IMO) get accused of manipulating the market and people will whine.

At the end of the day though people always vote with their feet. That is what killed the small suburban supermarkets in Canberra, not the likes of Woolworths of Coles. All they did was provide something people wanted. Restricting free trade or manipulating the market at the end of the day hurts the consumer!

maybe it will be a drive-in supermarket? *that* would be cool.

georgesgenitals10:13 pm 06 May 10

sepi said :

Who cares. Once they have built these stupid supermarkets onto the existing car parks at Dickson and Kingston (often both full), there will be noone left to shop there, as noone will be able to drive to the shops. Stupid stupid stupid ideas.

Why not just build a superbarn at Downer shops instead of Dickson?

Best idea I’ve heard all day.

They’re going to put a supermarket in the Dickson carpark? Where, pray tell, are we to park, then?

Just take the light rail along Northbourne.

First thing – anything for less car-parking I say – lazy bums (and probably therefore fat bums) walk, get a bike and ride, or even just maybe if really desperate catch a bus…

Worst thing is that, like everywhere else where they sit side by side, Woolies and Coles will collude on prices in Dickson and screw us Inner Northites even more… so… head to the farmers markets at EPIC on Sat morn and get most of what’s good for ya, and anything residual head to a small independent supermarche like IGA in Ainslie… keep profit local!

Woody Mann-Caruso9:08 pm 06 May 10

Woolworths at Erindale is a tip. Scratch that – Mugga Way would probably have what I wanted in stock, as opposed to everything I don’t want scattered on the floor in front of the empty shelves.

I’m with Sepi on this one. I have a Supabarn on one side of the hill and a Woollies on the other – Probably within a km of each other. Both are in separate shopping complexes. Most of the people on my area switch between the two depending on their ‘specials’ – we get the best of both.

I believe that if any of the major chains challenged the ACT Government’s decision to exclude them or deliberately not consider their application in court, that the court will find that the ACT Government has breached the anti-competitive provisions of the Trade Practices Act by resticting competition for the sites.

However, I think the ACT Government has done a bit of a deal with the retailers, particularly Woolworths as there have been (or will be) some direct land acquisitions for their existing stores at Charnwood, Kambah and Holt plus the acqusition of the new site at Bonner. While acquiring the Bonner site would pretty much automatically exclude them from acquiring Amaroo, if they chose to challenge the decisions at Casey and Kingston they would almost certainly win.

Also, I think people to comment “where will we park?” before seeing any plans is a bit silly. Firstly, Dickson will be easy, you will park in the carpark behind the library, where there is normally plenty of parking because people are lazy and don’t want to walk the extra 20m. I am also almost 100% certain that a new supermarket in Dickson will mean underground carparking, which I remember that intention was noted already a while back.

georgesgenitals said :

What’s wrong with Woolies? Our local is a Woolies and they’re pretty good, although they do get pretty busy at peak times.

The range of products is terrible, it’s dirty, and way too crowded. Sometimes I can spend 10-15 minutes queueing up there to get through the express checkout.

I love it how supermarkets build like 15 checkouts but never have even half of them open, even when the queues are so long that it’s preventing people walking past. Why bother building them if they won’t use them?

Who cares. Once they have built these stupid supermarkets onto the existing car parks at Dickson and Kingston (often both full), there will be noone left to shop there, as noone will be able to drive to the shops. Stupid stupid stupid ideas.

Why not just build a superbarn at Downer shops instead of Dickson?

Clown Killer7:27 pm 06 May 10

I’m sure I read somewhere in the papers over last summer – maybe an article of the death-throws of Krudds “Price-Watch” debarcle – that Coles and Woolworths only drom their prices locally where there is an Aldi or similar competitor and that they rearely sought to compete against each other locally on price.

Thi mightn’t be a bad thing, but I agree with GnT is seems odd to have the Government playing the part of competition champion.

I find it interesting that excluding the big players from supermarket tenders is supposed to increase competition, but isn’t this sort of government intervention anti-competitive? By saying who and who can’t run certain supermarket sites, and especially in Casey where ALDI and Supabarn are getting a three year head start on Coles/Woollies, it seems to be manipulating the market to give the smaller competitors an unfair advantage.

georgesgenitals7:05 pm 06 May 10

What’s wrong with Woolies? Our local is a Woolies and they’re pretty good, although they do get pretty busy at peak times.

They’re going to put a supermarket in the Dickson carpark? Where, pray tell, are we to park, then?

perhaps if there were true competition instead of a market largely dominated by two players your theory might work. alas, that is not the case. what underlies the decision-making process i don’t know but surely making sure we get more competition is a good thing.

as far as parking goes, they will probably tear down the library or somesuch.

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