Muck Up days go wrong. Naked Youths run wild. Possum molested.

jcitizen said :

quewastaken said :

I don’t understand why people get so up in arms about this… Yes, hanging a possum from a flagpole isn’t appropiate, but kids letting off steam at the end of the year was happening before the advent of a media release from the police for every minor disturbance caused by a teen.

Just let them know stringing up roadkill isn’t on and leave them be… At least they don’t have guns!

YEAH RIGHT !
You sound like one of their parents that should be strung up!
How the hell do you know it was roadkill? You sound like you are supporting this behaviour and why is it even OK if it was roadkill anyway?
WHY DONT YOU LET ME KNOW WHERE YOU INTEND TO BE BURIED WHEN YOU DIE AND ILL SEND SOMEONE OVER TO BUST UP YOUR HEADSTONE,S#%T ON YOUR GRAVE AND DO IT EVERY BLOODY YEAR. For no reason or benefit at all other than I feel like it.
Why the bloody hell should taxpayers have to foot the bill for the damage that this future generation constantly keeps causing? only to be supported by F@$%KWITS like you.
Not to mention the poor year 11 student, mentioned above, that will remember this forever! I would gladly offer my assistance to this student if he wants to pay these “so called people” (animals back), you know, just have a little fun.
Teach these “animals” a little bit of respect I say for if they wish to behave like animals then lock em up with some real ones.
With attitudes like yours theres no bloody wonder society is rapidly sinking!

Wow, honestly at a loss for words.

Did you take your medication today?

Diggety said :

Skidbladnir said :

I-filed said :

It is well known that animal cruelty is an indicator for psychopathology.

Myth of sampling biases.
Quit trying to spread it.

Thanks, Skid.

I’m sick to death of being labelled a psychopath.

You’re a taxidermist who works on their subject while it’s kicking and screaming?

quewastaken said :

I don’t understand why people get so up in arms about this… Yes, hanging a possum from a flagpole isn’t appropiate, but kids letting off steam at the end of the year was happening before the advent of a media release from the police for every minor disturbance caused by a teen.

Just let them know stringing up roadkill isn’t on and leave them be… At least they don’t have guns!

YEAH RIGHT !
You sound like one of their parents that should be strung up!
How the hell do you know it was roadkill? You sound like you are supporting this behaviour and why is it even OK if it was roadkill anyway?
WHY DONT YOU LET ME KNOW WHERE YOU INTEND TO BE BURIED WHEN YOU DIE AND ILL SEND SOMEONE OVER TO BUST UP YOUR HEADSTONE,S#%T ON YOUR GRAVE AND DO IT EVERY BLOODY YEAR. For no reason or benefit at all other than I feel like it.
Why the bloody hell should taxpayers have to foot the bill for the damage that this future generation constantly keeps causing? only to be supported by F@$%KWITS like you.
Not to mention the poor year 11 student, mentioned above, that will remember this forever! I would gladly offer my assistance to this student if he wants to pay these “so called people” (animals back), you know, just have a little fun.
Teach these “animals” a little bit of respect I say for if they wish to behave like animals then lock em up with some real ones.
With attitudes like yours theres no bloody wonder society is rapidly sinking!

And so, I killed the thread.
Nobody wants to pick up an animal cruelty debate and run with it?

Where’s Mr Linke when you want him?

Mothy said :

…And just how things reached the point where someone took a dump on the school BBQ’s hotplate I’ll never know, but I’ve avoided the sausage sizzle at all subsequent school fetes…

Made me chuckle. Brings a new meaning to throw another snag on the barbie thanks mate.

I-filed said :

Skidbladnir said :

Myth of sampling biases.
Quit trying to spread it.

Interesting – can you post more information?

Summary of methodology flaws, according to Forging the links: (de)constructing chains of behaviours, Heather Piper and Steve Myers, Child Abuse Review Volume 15, Issue 3, pages 178-187, May/June 2006 .
(Entire article available for rent here)
Plain English summary of their earlier work here.

“Cruelty Indivisible” is a fairly good study of the human cruelty studies as an outgrowth from animal cruelty campaigns (Seriously, guess which argument came first, “Thats shocking animal cruelty” vs “Don’t put children in work houses”?) and then the subsequent abandonment from about 1910-1980 of the animal cruelty = tendency for human cruelty and murder direct link arguments.
The conclusion (Pg24) within is a fair summary of the current argument as a whole, but read the entire thing for a context of how the argument evolved, grew, was squashed for a while, and has made something of a comeback in a much weaker form.
It remains a weak link at best (but not one easily dismissed), and the causality relationships between infliction of animal violence, infliction of human violence, victim of inflicted violence, criminal behaviour, and incarceration are not clearly established (or directionally defined).

As example: Wikipedia’s darling, Christopher Hensley:
“From Animal Cruelty to Serial Murder: Applying the Graduation Hypothesis” Jeremy Wright and Christopher Hensley, International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology, February 2003 vol. 47 no. 1 71-88 (abstract\rental) he cited the trend as “a link between childhood cruelty toward animals and serial murder with the application of the graduation hypothesis”.
People panicked, he got funding.

By the time he was published again in “Exploring the Link between Recurrent Acts of Childhood and Adolescent Animal Cruelty and Subsequent Violent Crime”, Suzanne E. Tallichet and Christopher Hensley, Criminal Justice Review Autumn 2004 vol. 29 no. 2 304-316(abstract\rental) he toned it down to “respondents who had more siblings and who had committed repeated acts of animal cruelty were more likely to have engaged in recurrent acts of interpersonal violence”.
Again, he got funding.

When he published “Recurrent Childhood Animal Cruelty: Is There a Relationship to Adult Recurrent Interpersonal Violence?”, Christopher Hensley and Suzanne E. Tallichet and Erik L. Dutkiewicz, Criminal Justice Review June 2009 vol. 34 no. 2 248-257 (abstract\rental) his argument was reduced to “…based on survey data from 180 inmates at a medium- and maximum-security prison… repeated acts of animal cruelty during childhood and pre-adolescence was predictive of later recurrent acts of violence toward humans, showing a possible relationship between the two.”
He still gets funding, but when published in isolation his papers read like he enjoys begging the question.

The original “Childhood cruelty to animals is a strong indicator of later violent or psychopathic human behaviour” arguments, are derived from three works, which also are the source of the ‘Macdonald triad’ for psychopathic diagnoses (firestarting, cruelty to animals, and bedwetting after the age of five), but after others have tried to pick up that torch and run with it, the assertions of these original papers have been weakened considerably but still show up in papers as cited references.

(1) “The threat to kill”, JM Macdonald , American Journal of Psychiatry, 120:125-130, August 1963;
(2) “Enuresis, firesetting and cruelty to animals: A triad predictive of adult crime”, Daniel S Hellman and Nathan Blackman, American Journal of Psychiatry, 122:1431-1435, June 1966; and
(3) “Childhood cruelty to animals and later aggression against people: A review”, A. R. Felthous and S. R. Kellert, American Journal of Psychiatry, 144:710-717, 1987.

fragge said :

KeenGolfer said :

quewastaken said :

I don’t understand why people get so up in arms about this… Yes, hanging a possum from a flagpole isn’t appropiate, but kids letting off steam at the end of the year was happening before the advent of a media release from the police for every minor disturbance caused by a teen.!

So in your eyes it’s ok for them to steal, cause property damage and run around in Civic naked because they’re just ‘letting off steam’? I’ve got no problem with having a celebration but they’re taking it too far when they commit criminal acts. Is it worth getting a criminal record for theft etc (which will ruin some employment chances) just for an end of year lark?

Mate, they are criminal acts because the laws were set down to deal with those kinds of rare incidences when they occur – I don’t think the lawmakers envisaged charging teenage children for graduation mischief. The only offence worth going after is the theft of road signs, and not because it poses a “significant risk” to drivers, but on principle – after all, whoever signed the procurement contract for those signs made sure they’re too expensive to just make more, we must protect the ones we have with the full force of the law. Bring in the military police, the rebellion stops TODAY.

Your trying to be funny. But you’ve hit upon the perfect solution. When the gangs take over you’ll be sorry

I recall a muck up days at my school escalated year on year.

When in year 7, I watched on in awe to arrive at school to find the departing 12’s had greased doorknobs, gladwrapped over toilet seats, and written in shaving cream on the windows. Through the day, maurading mobs of them would suddenly appear in a classroom, tie the teacher to their chair, and carry them triumphantly from the class to an outdoor area, where they would be thoroughly hosed down with water pistols, before the mob would disperse, leaving the soaked teacher to be retrieved by one of the students they’d been trying to teach beforehand. Someone landed a great water-bomb on the principal’s bald spot from atop the toilet block.

Great stuff.

Then in coming years, the waterbombs were fired in conjunction with flour bombs. Much messier.

Then instead of shaving cream scrawls on the windows, it was rocks through them.

And just how things reached the point where someone took a dump on the school BBQ’s hotplate I’ll never know, but I’ve avoided the sausage sizzle at all subsequent school fetes…

Stevian said :

wooster said :

Oh ffs. Just relax.

Its a muck up day.

If you’re ever robbed, bashed or your family murdered, that will be the defence. Think about it.
Crime is crime whatever the excuse and must be dealt with.

You appear to have a severe mental handicap. There are people who will support you, you just need to reach and out and ask for help.

KeenGolfer said :

quewastaken said :

I don’t understand why people get so up in arms about this… Yes, hanging a possum from a flagpole isn’t appropiate, but kids letting off steam at the end of the year was happening before the advent of a media release from the police for every minor disturbance caused by a teen.!

So in your eyes it’s ok for them to steal, cause property damage and run around in Civic naked because they’re just ‘letting off steam’? I’ve got no problem with having a celebration but they’re taking it too far when they commit criminal acts. Is it worth getting a criminal record for theft etc (which will ruin some employment chances) just for an end of year lark?

Mate, they are criminal acts because the laws were set down to deal with those kinds of rare incidences when they occur – I don’t think the lawmakers envisaged charging teenage children for graduation mischief. The only offence worth going after is the theft of road signs, and not because it poses a “significant risk” to drivers, but on principle – after all, whoever signed the procurement contract for those signs made sure they’re too expensive to just make more, we must protect the ones we have with the full force of the law. Bring in the military police, the rebellion stops TODAY.

wooster said :

Oh ffs. Just relax.

Its a muck up day.

If you’re ever robbed, bashed or your family murdered, that will be the defence. Think about it.
Crime is crime whatever the excuse and must be dealt with.

Diggety said :

And the nudie run was well out of order!

Rubbish. Now if I was to run through the streets naked that’d be another thing entirely.

ThatUniStudent said :

Was I the only one who read this “North District Superintendent Mick Calatzis said that when behaviour such as this gets out of hand and results in criminal offences such as property damage, public mischief or the risk of injury, then police will step in promptly” and thought that the police would step in promptly to join the fun?

Those kids are having fun over there!
Oh, we can’t have that seargent, we’d better step in promptly. We’ll show them we can have more fun than they can!
Oh yes corpral, I be we can have even more fun than that creepy fireman from the Worker Friends commercial.

You really are a goose, aren’t you. It really makes me worry about your generation. I think I’m yet to see a single post from you that isn’t selfish, complaining about something ridiculous or just plain stupid. Sorry, but you really give me the shits.

We’re talking about damage to other people’s property here. How on earth can that be considered acceptable? This isn’t about a few water balloons being thrown, or toilet-papering trees. This is criminal behaviour, and we’re supposed to just accept it because some self-entitled twits have finished school? If we celebrate this behaviour we need to be prepared to accept a class of people who do not respect others.

As for the possum, I really hope it was dead before they got hold of it. If it wasn’t….. there’s no words.

I didn’t want to laugh… I mean, I really didn’t! But the police release is even funnier than Triple J’s account of the story!

But the irony I really love is that the AFP have now made it the goal of every kid in year 11 to make sure that Canberra Muck Up Day 2012 also makes national news! And when a cohort make international news, I will bow down and proclaim “We’re not worthy”!

The possum story really should disgust me, I know, but the thought of a possum up a flagpole just has me splitting my sides! Oh the shame of being so amused by it!

Why are people so squeamish about dead possums? Once dead, its dead. Do you run around LBG complaing about all the carp being thrown into rubbish bins (and they are usually still alive) or chicken being decapitated for your KFC?

Sure running a dead animal up a flagpole is stupid but its hardly animal cruelty.

Assuming, of course, it was dead.

My muck up day involved a school assembly where some talented actors (now professional) parodied some of the teachers. Yes, it was a private school, we thought it was very daring. I think we also refused to pull our sock up.

from my experience, kidnapping year 11s on dare night is a long standing radford tradition.
but i think it’s important not to homogenise whole year groups over some of the more excessive pranks. i’m pretty sure every year group since time immemorial has had the token hard-nut group who cause most of the vandalism, and within the group of hard-nuts there’s always at least one weird psycho kid whose notorious for animal cruelty or bringing knives to school.

Oh ffs. Just relax.

Its a muck up day.

The possum had to have been already dead. I have seen what a possum does to someone when you grab it, they are not friendly, nor are they weak. I have seen a possum tear through my uncles flesh with it’s claws like it was tissue paper,and he hand fed that for years before he went to touch it – it still almost killed him.

Either way though, playing with dead animals? i find that a little disturbing that they are comfortable with grabbing up a dead creature and doing anything with it.

I may or may not have been involved in the, albeit short term, kidnapping and subsequent naked lashed to a post of a Year 11 student many years ago. Among other things.

But the possum thing is disturbing. Also is damage to property.

So, how long were you tied to that pole for?

Was I the only one who read this “North District Superintendent Mick Calatzis said that when behaviour such as this gets out of hand and results in criminal offences such as property damage, public mischief or the risk of injury, then police will step in promptly” and thought that the police would step in promptly to join the fun?

Those kids are having fun over there!
Oh, we can’t have that seargent, we’d better step in promptly. We’ll show them we can have more fun than they can!
Oh yes corpral, I be we can have even more fun than that creepy fireman from the Worker Friends commercial.

mareva said :

Ha. “Muck up days”. I went to a public school, so every day was a muck up day.

And well may you lol, but we never ran through Civic starkers, nor strung dead animals up flagpoles. Further examples to me of why my parents made the right choice.

Too busy smoking cones?

Skidbladnir said :

I-filed said :

It is well known that animal cruelty is an indicator for psychopathology.

Myth of sampling biases.
Quit trying to spread it.

Interesting – can you post more information?

And the nudie run was well out of order!

Skidbladnir said :

I-filed said :

It is well known that animal cruelty is an indicator for psychopathology.

Myth of sampling biases.
Quit trying to spread it.

Thanks, Skid.

I’m sick to death of being labelled a psychopath.

Erg0 said :

On an unrelated note, I congratulate the ACT Policing media people on using the word “envisage” in a press release.

It actually is quite amazing

Erg0 said :

On an unrelated note, I congratulate the ACT Policing media people on using the word “envisage” in a press release.

+1

There’s obviously someone who speaks Australian English left.

Well that would explain why our rubbish bins were run over last night. I’m glad they enjoyed their muck up celebrations whilst I was picking up my and a neighbour’s rubbish and recycling at 1am this morning that was strewn through our yard. Now I have to organise both bins to be replaced. Good thing it’s a simple phone call.

I-filed said :

It is well known that animal cruelty is an indicator for psychopathology.

Myth of sampling biases.
Quit trying to spread it.

Ha. “Muck up days”. I went to a public school, so every day was a muck up day.

And well may you lol, but we never ran through Civic starkers, nor strung dead animals up flagpoles. Further examples to me of why my parents made the right choice.

quewastaken said :

I don’t understand why people get so up in arms about this… Yes, hanging a possum from a flagpole isn’t appropiate, but kids letting off steam at the end of the year was happening before the advent of a media release from the police for every minor disturbance caused by a teen.!

So in your eyes it’s ok for them to steal, cause property damage and run around in Civic naked because they’re just ‘letting off steam’? I’ve got no problem with having a celebration but they’re taking it too far when they commit criminal acts. Is it worth getting a criminal record for theft etc (which will ruin some employment chances) just for an end of year lark?

It is well known that animal cruelty is an indicator for psychopathology. Daramalan College had better find out the truth of the circumstances around the possum cruelty, turn the offender in to the police, and let the public know the outcome.

Holden Caulfield said :

Ska said :

The possum incident also is said to of happened in a private school so would not be Dickson as it is a public school.

Very good Sherlock. I wasn’t referring to Dickson College.

In a discussion about schools, “Dickson” very well could of been referring to the school by that name or at least read by others in such a way, so glad we have clarified what was being said. Thanks

I don’t understand why people get so up in arms about this… Yes, hanging a possum from a flagpole isn’t appropiate, but kids letting off steam at the end of the year was happening before the advent of a media release from the police for every minor disturbance caused by a teen.

Just let them know stringing up roadkill isn’t on and leave them be… At least they don’t have guns!

I absolutely love the language of this PR – its like they already know that the charges are stupid, but since they’re writing it up, they might as well make it sound somewhat important.

My favourite was the dangerously ambiguous statement “Police were unable to establish whether the possum had been killed prior to the incident or as a result of the incident.”

Juuuuust enough information to let you guess at their innocence I remember our muck-up day at Trinity Christian School – school uniforms, no events all day, and the entire grade called to an assembly on the oval for the entire afternoon on suspicion that a water fight was going to break out (no joke. in fact, me and a mate actually carried garbage bins full of water bombs to the assembly but were threatened that we wouldnt graduate if we threw a single one). Thus, literally nothing out of the ordinary happened – teachers oppressed students, ad infinitum. As a note to parents that are deciding where to place their kids – be aware that your children will come out as psychotic cult-driven pansies if you send them to TCS. My advice? Send your kids to THIS school ;]

Ska said :

The possum incident also is said to of happened in a private school so would not be Dickson as it is a public school.

Very good Sherlock. I wasn’t referring to Dickson College.

The sad thing, in my opinion (aside from the obvious sadness of the possum molestation) is what these sh*t heads do for future school leavers.

When I was in high school, muck-up day was just a bit of harmless fun, I remember the yr 12 class that went through when i was in yr 10, they sprayed a few water pistols, wrote on the sports field in four, turned the outside tables upside down, and made a little noise.

It was a bit of fun to celebrate the end of their time at school, and seen as a right of passage, that was well earned.

When I was in yr 11, the yr 12 mob that year cased severe damage to the school, and neighboring houses and a park, windows were smashed, letterboxes destroyed, for sale signs and gardens burned, and some footpath lights at the park were even knocked over (i don’t know how no one was electrocuted)

Needles to say, the year group ahead of us left such a scar, that when I came to yr 12 there was no muck up day, even though we were generally seen as a much less troublesome year group than our direct predecessors (in fact we attempted to arrange one by sticking an agreement with the principal about what we would do, and would not, he was happy to negotiate in advance, but it was all canceled when some of the previously vandalised neighbors decided they were not ready to face the risk again)

Looking back, it really was no great loss in the scheme of things, but at the time it got us pretty down, and I still see it as a bit of fun that we missed out on due to the stupid actions of others.

But then again thats life, there will always be a d*ck head or two waiting to screw it up for others!

johnnycash said :

Radford is in Belconnen….North Canberra should bring you closer to town. Probably a school whose name starts with D.

North Canberra refers to all areas north of the lake including Belco. Given that the article later refers to an “inner north” school for the possum incident, I would take this to suggest that the first school would in fact be from outside of the inner north area.

Holden Caulfield said :

johnboy said :

So does “Prominent” mean Radford?

Yes.

Although, the possum killers are from Dickson, I’ve been told.

The possum incident also is said to of happened in a private school so would not be Dickson as it is a public school.

S.A. Mulder said :

Oh my god. School kids running around naked, grabbing other students and getting up to mischief. Whoever would have thought our society would come to this…

They need a special day for this. That was standard practice when I went to school

On an unrelated note, I congratulate the ACT Policing media people on using the word “envisage” in a press release

And spelling it correctly! If ESA ever decides to head-hunt, could be a good place to start…

I seriously hope someone hasn’t killed a possum simply for a childish prank.

How can one do that? Do these people not have one ounce of empathy?

Agreed. Requiring kids to ‘catch a wild animal’ as part of a treasure hunt is pretty stupid anyway.

johnboy said :

So does “Prominent” mean Radford?

Yes.

Although, the possum killers are from Dickson, I’ve been told.

Chop71 said :

blah blah, they will do heaps worse when they get to uni

What, a little whale harpooning between lectures?

Oh my god. School kids running around naked, grabbing other students and getting up to mischief. Whoever would have thought our society would come to this…

Possum molested? The Charnwood swan molester is branching out…

In all seriousness though, horrible thing to do, regardless of whether it was dead before or after.

blah blah, they will do heaps worse when they get to uni

On an unrelated note, I congratulate the ACT Policing media people on using the word “envisage” in a press release.

Skidbladnir said :

This is going to be one of those questions I regret and sound horrible out of context, but how do you molest a possum to death?

Surely having potential consequences of “dying and then being strung up a flagpole” or “being strung up a flagpole and dying” puts the act far beyond even an aggravated molestation?

Well, if the possum was already dead (as I forlornly hope was the case) then we’re *just* talking about desecrating the body.

This is going to be one of those questions I regret and will sound horrible once taken out of context, but how do you molest a possum to death?

Surely having consequences of either “dying and then being strung up a flagpole” or “being strung up a flagpole and dying” puts the act far beyond even an aggravated molestation?

Ahhhhh, year 12 muck up days. We used to look forward to it every year at school. It was banned at Eden after they year 12 students in 85 or 86 put all the demountable classroom furniture on the roof. There was a question on how thye got in to get the furniture…………….

Radford is in Belconnen….North Canberra should bring you closer to town. Probably a school whose name starts with D.

With no additional knowledge I do wonder if the possum wasn’t roadkill.

Some of the incidents are amusing, but vandalism and animal cruelty is disgusting. Great new generation joining society, I can hardly wait.

So does “Prominent” mean Radford?