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Murrumbidgee now the real election battleground

Chris Mordd Richards 2 September 2016 31

light rail artist impression

ACT Labor has today announced a City to Woden connection as the Stage 2 light rail commitment they will take to the election. Having made the decision on this in their final cabinet meeting before entering Caretaker period, they have set up the seat of Murrumbidgee as the real battleground electorate for this election. Gungahlin is already getting its own slice of light rail, and despite the heated contest emerging in Tuggeranong (the Brindabella electorate), by committing to extending light rail to Woden if re-elected, Labor has just turned Murrumbidgee into the real contest.

This decision opens the door to an extension to Tuggeranong as a stage 3 in 2020, which works for Labor in Brindabella to some extent also. I suspect that this played a small part in their decision to go with Woden as the Stage 2 instead of an Airport-City or Airport-City-Belconnen connection.

The new light rail leg to Woden will see trams “cross the lake over the Commonwealth Avenue bridge, travel through the Parliamentary Triangle, and down Adelaide Avenue to the Woden town centre”. Labor decided at the last minute for reasons unknown to jettison the proposed end point of Mawson, though, and will terminate the tram at Woden itself for the stage 2 build. The stage one and two combination is being dubbed the “north-south spine”, from which branches can grow out to connect all of Canberra eventually. This makes extending to Woden as the stage 2 logical from this perspective, even if ending at Mawson would have been desirable to take advantage of the park and ride facilities there. I hope Labor now commits to exploring options for expanding park and ride access at Woden to match the new service.

Labor and the Greens have today made election pledges to sign the contracts for the stage 2 during the next term of government. The bridge over the lake may require strengthening work, and the approval of the National Capital Authority will be required (for the section that travels through the Parliamentary Triangle). It is not clear exactly when construction of the stage 2 would commence if Labor is re-elected, but the Government is keen to minimise any delay between stage 1 finishing and stage 2 commencing. I expect that we will learn of their estimated start date later in the election campaign itself.

The head of lobby group ACT Light Rail, Damien Haas, released a statement regarding the stage 2 announcement that read in part:

By declaring a bold stage two of light rail, the ACT Government firmly indicates to all of Canberra that the light rail project will eventually reach their town centre. Crossing the lake and travelling through the Parliamentary Triangle are the two big factors that the rest of the network depend upon.

Future extensions to Tuggeranong, or even Queanbeyan are now extremely feasible. A Civic-Russell-Airport route would connect to a light rail network that travels to many national attractions and hotel/entertainment precincts. Going across the lake opens up the other routes from the Light Rail Network Plan for realistic implementation.
The ability of light rail to act as an urban renewal catalyst, as well as a tool to deal with road congestion and increase public transport patronage is well known, and the main reason Canberra chose light rail over BRT.

This announcement is well timed, and politically savvy. It will appeal to voters in the south of Canberra and provides an overwhelmingly superior policy when compared to the Canberra Liberals’ bus only policy.

With this plan in place, Labor is clearly demonstrating their commitment to a Canberra wide Light Rail network and are demonstrating they will proceed to build it out piece by piece with that goal in mind at all times. Once the spine is established, from there the branches will grow.


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31 Responses to Murrumbidgee now the real election battleground
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dungfungus dungfungus 11:39 am 02 Sep 16

The public transport choices are going to be:

1. Stand in a tram and arrive later than a bus travelling the same route.
0r
2. Sit in a bus and get there faster.

Why spend billions for something inferior to what is already available?

And for Damien Haas to suggest that trams are a solution to road congestion is totally false as anyone who as ever travelled on a Melbourne tram knows.

HiddenDragon HiddenDragon 5:16 pm 02 Sep 16

“….This announcement is well timed….” – particularly for south-side voters who have recently received their Annual Rates notice, and can now reflect on the costs of gesture politics on an epic scale.

TuggLife TuggLife 10:33 pm 02 Sep 16

I will eat my hat if the light rail ever reaches Queanbeyan – they can’t even negotiate decent buses between Quangers and the ACT.

This shows how fanciful it’s all becoming. I’m tempted to run for a spot on the platform of light rail within 50m of all Canberrans, for how realistic these plans are.

(Dean’s, you do great work, but it’s more an intercity coach than a suburban bus…)

dungfungus dungfungus 8:36 am 03 Sep 16

TuggLife said :

I will eat my hat if the light rail ever reaches Queanbeyan – they can’t even negotiate decent buses between Quangers and the ACT.

This shows how fanciful it’s all becoming. I’m tempted to run for a spot on the platform of light rail within 50m of all Canberrans, for how realistic these plans are.

(Dean’s, you do great work, but it’s more an intercity coach than a suburban bus…)

A diesel-electric light railcar could be running on the existing standard gauge railway line between Bungendore and Kingston (via Queanbeyan) tomorrow if it wasn’t for the pig-pigheadedness of The Green.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/shane-rattenbury-rules-out-light-rail-between-queanbeyan-and-canberra-20150930-gjyeuv.html

rommeldog56 rommeldog56 9:38 am 03 Sep 16

HiddenDragon said :

“….This announcement is well timed….” – particularly for south-side voters who have recently received their Annual Rates notice, and can now reflect on the costs of gesture politics on an epic scale.

Canberrians are too well paid but also seem to be too apathetic or rusted on Labor/Greens to care much about Annual Rates (and other ACT Govt charges) rises I’m afraid.

I like this bit in the OP “… and provides an overwhelmingly superior policy when compared to the Canberra Liberals’ bus only policy”. So, as well as the tram, ACT Labor/Greens will introduce an expanded express bus network. Last I heard, ACTION was subsidised to about m$100pa. Fair enough, it has infinately greater coverage than the Tram ever will. Tram stage 1 will cost about m$70+pa.

Makes u wonder where all this $ will be coming from ?

But, minor technicalities like that never seem to worry Greens or rusted on ACT Labor supporters. Labors Tram policy is after all “vastly superior” to the bus based Liberals policy, so stuff the $ I suppose.

Mordd / Chris Richards Mordd / Chris Richards 11:40 am 03 Sep 16

FYI: “This announcement is well timed, and politically savvy. It will appeal to voters in the south of Canberra and provides an overwhelmingly superior policy when compared to the Canberra Liberals’ bus only policy.”

That was the last paragraph of Damien’s comments, not my own words. Somehow between submitting this and it going up, that accidentally got moved outside of the blockquote tags it seems. Sorry for the confusion.

dungfungus dungfungus 12:01 pm 03 Sep 16

Mordd / Chris Richards said :

FYI: “This announcement is well timed, and politically savvy. It will appeal to voters in the south of Canberra and provides an overwhelmingly superior policy when compared to the Canberra Liberals’ bus only policy.”

That was the last paragraph of Damien’s comments, not my own words. Somehow between submitting this and it going up, that accidentally got moved outside of the blockquote tags it seems. Sorry for the confusion.

There is no confusion as statements like that are Transport Canberra group-think mantras.

dungfungus dungfungus 4:30 pm 03 Sep 16

rommeldog56 said :

HiddenDragon said :

“….This announcement is well timed….” – particularly for south-side voters who have recently received their Annual Rates notice, and can now reflect on the costs of gesture politics on an epic scale.

Canberrians are too well paid but also seem to be too apathetic or rusted on Labor/Greens to care much about Annual Rates (and other ACT Govt charges) rises I’m afraid.

I like this bit in the OP “… and provides an overwhelmingly superior policy when compared to the Canberra Liberals’ bus only policy”.

So, as well as the tram, ACT Labor/Greens will introduce an expanded express bus network.

Last I heard, ACTION was subsidised to about m$100pa. Fair enough, it has infinately greater coverage than the Tram ever will. Tram stage 1 will cost about m$70+pa.

Makes u wonder where all this $ will be coming from ?

But, minor technicalities like that never seem to worry Greens or rusted on ACT Labor supporters. Labors Tram policy is after all “vastly superior” to the bus based Liberals policy, so stuff the $ I suppose.

The terminologies “rates and stamp duty” being phased out I think. They are being replaced with something called “property tax”.

Whatever they call it it is too excessive for the basic services we need.

I would like to see a basic property tax to cover the municipal necessities and another voluntary “opt in” tax for all the people who support the blank cheque mentality of this government.

In other words the Labor/Green voters could put their money where their vote is.

gooterz gooterz 8:13 pm 03 Sep 16

dungfungus said :

rommeldog56 said :

HiddenDragon said :

“….This announcement is well timed….” – particularly for south-side voters who have recently received their Annual Rates notice, and can now reflect on the costs of gesture politics on an epic scale.

Canberrians are too well paid but also seem to be too apathetic or rusted on Labor/Greens to care much about Annual Rates (and other ACT Govt charges) rises I’m afraid.

I like this bit in the OP “… and provides an overwhelmingly superior policy when compared to the Canberra Liberals’ bus only policy”.

So, as well as the tram, ACT Labor/Greens will introduce an expanded express bus network.

Last I heard, ACTION was subsidised to about m$100pa. Fair enough, it has infinately greater coverage than the Tram ever will. Tram stage 1 will cost about m$70+pa.

Makes u wonder where all this $ will be coming from ?

But, minor technicalities like that never seem to worry Greens or rusted on ACT Labor supporters. Labors Tram policy is after all “vastly superior” to the bus based Liberals policy, so stuff the $ I suppose.

The terminologies “rates and stamp duty” being phased out I think. They are being replaced with something called “property tax”.

Whatever they call it it is too excessive for the basic services we need.

I would like to see a basic property tax to cover the municipal necessities and another voluntary “opt in” tax for all the people who support the blank cheque mentality of this government.

In other words the Labor/Green voters could put their money where their vote is.

So in 10 years time everyone has to move into one of 3 zoned suburbs. Labor Liberal or Greens.

Greens have door to door light rail down every street, Solar panel roads that everyone rides bikes on and laws to prevent keeping pets, or eating anything other than vegan food.

Labor has artwork everywhere its like the Sistine Chapel. Every road has multiple lane bikelane and speed bumps every 10 metres. Residents are rich have 10 million dollar homes or apartments. Everyone living in a house here is a millionare, some parts of the suburbs are like the Kowloon walled city. There is much ‘culture’ with a population densities upto 40,000 people/sqkm.

Liberals section. No one really knows what goes on here, because no one has been here in a very long time. The tram doesn’t venture down this far and the bus service was cancelled long ago. However most of the businesses have moved here and has the biggest increase in population as the rents are normal compared to the other two types of suburbs.

Mordd / Chris Richards Mordd / Chris Richards 9:58 pm 03 Sep 16

gooterz said :

dungfungus said :

rommeldog56 said :

HiddenDragon said :

“….This announcement is well timed….” – particularly for south-side voters who have recently received their Annual Rates notice, and can now reflect on the costs of gesture politics on an epic scale.

Canberrians are too well paid but also seem to be too apathetic or rusted on Labor/Greens to care much about Annual Rates (and other ACT Govt charges) rises I’m afraid.

I like this bit in the OP “… and provides an overwhelmingly superior policy when compared to the Canberra Liberals’ bus only policy”.

So, as well as the tram, ACT Labor/Greens will introduce an expanded express bus network.

Last I heard, ACTION was subsidised to about m$100pa. Fair enough, it has infinately greater coverage than the Tram ever will. Tram stage 1 will cost about m$70+pa.

Makes u wonder where all this $ will be coming from ?

But, minor technicalities like that never seem to worry Greens or rusted on ACT Labor supporters. Labors Tram policy is after all “vastly superior” to the bus based Liberals policy, so stuff the $ I suppose.

The terminologies “rates and stamp duty” being phased out I think. They are being replaced with something called “property tax”.

Whatever they call it it is too excessive for the basic services we need.

I would like to see a basic property tax to cover the municipal necessities and another voluntary “opt in” tax for all the people who support the blank cheque mentality of this government.

In other words the Labor/Green voters could put their money where their vote is.

So in 10 years time everyone has to move into one of 3 zoned suburbs. Labor Liberal or Greens.

Greens have door to door light rail down every street, Solar panel roads that everyone rides bikes on and laws to prevent keeping pets, or eating anything other than vegan food.

Labor has artwork everywhere its like the Sistine Chapel. Every road has multiple lane bikelane and speed bumps every 10 metres. Residents are rich have 10 million dollar homes or apartments. Everyone living in a house here is a millionare, some parts of the suburbs are like the Kowloon walled city. There is much ‘culture’ with a population densities upto 40,000 people/sqkm.

Liberals section. No one really knows what goes on here, because no one has been here in a very long time. The tram doesn’t venture down this far and the bus service was cancelled long ago. However most of the businesses have moved here and has the biggest increase in population as the rents are normal compared to the other two types of suburbs.

Hmmm…. interesting….? Do the independents / minor parties get their own section to govern as well? I suspect everyone would move out of the Liberal section into that one, but the rest of your comments about the Liberal section seem more spot on.

dungfungus dungfungus 10:25 pm 03 Sep 16

Mordd / Chris Richards said :

gooterz said :

dungfungus said :

rommeldog56 said :

HiddenDragon said :

“….This announcement is well timed….” – particularly for south-side voters who have recently received their Annual Rates notice, and can now reflect on the costs of gesture politics on an epic scale.

Canberrians are too well paid but also seem to be too apathetic or rusted on Labor/Greens to care much about Annual Rates (and other ACT Govt charges) rises I’m afraid.

I like this bit in the OP “… and provides an overwhelmingly superior policy when compared to the Canberra Liberals’ bus only policy”.

So, as well as the tram, ACT Labor/Greens will introduce an expanded express bus network.

Last I heard, ACTION was subsidised to about m$100pa. Fair enough, it has infinately greater coverage than the Tram ever will. Tram stage 1 will cost about m$70+pa.

Makes u wonder where all this $ will be coming from ?

But, minor technicalities like that never seem to worry Greens or rusted on ACT Labor supporters. Labors Tram policy is after all “vastly superior” to the bus based Liberals policy, so stuff the $ I suppose.

The terminologies “rates and stamp duty” being phased out I think. They are being replaced with something called “property tax”.

Whatever they call it it is too excessive for the basic services we need.

I would like to see a basic property tax to cover the municipal necessities and another voluntary “opt in” tax for all the people who support the blank cheque mentality of this government.

In other words the Labor/Green voters could put their money where their vote is.

So in 10 years time everyone has to move into one of 3 zoned suburbs. Labor Liberal or Greens.

Greens have door to door light rail down every street, Solar panel roads that everyone rides bikes on and laws to prevent keeping pets, or eating anything other than vegan food.

Labor has artwork everywhere its like the Sistine Chapel. Every road has multiple lane bikelane and speed bumps every 10 metres. Residents are rich have 10 million dollar homes or apartments. Everyone living in a house here is a millionare, some parts of the suburbs are like the Kowloon walled city. There is much ‘culture’ with a population densities upto 40,000 people/sqkm.

Liberals section. No one really knows what goes on here, because no one has been here in a very long time. The tram doesn’t venture down this far and the bus service was cancelled long ago. However most of the businesses have moved here and has the biggest increase in population as the rents are normal compared to the other two types of suburbs.

Hmmm…. interesting….? Do the independents / minor parties get their own section to govern as well? I suspect everyone would move out of the Liberal section into that one, but the rest of your comments about the Liberal section seem more spot on.

The independents / minor parties will move to Oaks Estate.

Mordd / Chris Richards Mordd / Chris Richards 5:17 pm 04 Sep 16

dungfungus said :

Mordd / Chris Richards said :

gooterz said :

dungfungus said :

rommeldog56 said :

HiddenDragon said :

“….This announcement is well timed….” – particularly for south-side voters who have recently received their Annual Rates notice, and can now reflect on the costs of gesture politics on an epic scale.

Canberrians are too well paid but also seem to be too apathetic or rusted on Labor/Greens to care much about Annual Rates (and other ACT Govt charges) rises I’m afraid.

I like this bit in the OP “… and provides an overwhelmingly superior policy when compared to the Canberra Liberals’ bus only policy”.

So, as well as the tram, ACT Labor/Greens will introduce an expanded express bus network.

Last I heard, ACTION was subsidised to about m$100pa. Fair enough, it has infinately greater coverage than the Tram ever will. Tram stage 1 will cost about m$70+pa.

Makes u wonder where all this $ will be coming from ?

But, minor technicalities like that never seem to worry Greens or rusted on ACT Labor supporters. Labors Tram policy is after all “vastly superior” to the bus based Liberals policy, so stuff the $ I suppose.

The terminologies “rates and stamp duty” being phased out I think. They are being replaced with something called “property tax”.

Whatever they call it it is too excessive for the basic services we need.

I would like to see a basic property tax to cover the municipal necessities and another voluntary “opt in” tax for all the people who support the blank cheque mentality of this government.

In other words the Labor/Green voters could put their money where their vote is.

So in 10 years time everyone has to move into one of 3 zoned suburbs. Labor Liberal or Greens.

Greens have door to door light rail down every street, Solar panel roads that everyone rides bikes on and laws to prevent keeping pets, or eating anything other than vegan food.

Labor has artwork everywhere its like the Sistine Chapel. Every road has multiple lane bikelane and speed bumps every 10 metres. Residents are rich have 10 million dollar homes or apartments. Everyone living in a house here is a millionare, some parts of the suburbs are like the Kowloon walled city. There is much ‘culture’ with a population densities upto 40,000 people/sqkm.

Liberals section. No one really knows what goes on here, because no one has been here in a very long time. The tram doesn’t venture down this far and the bus service was cancelled long ago. However most of the businesses have moved here and has the biggest increase in population as the rents are normal compared to the other two types of suburbs.

Hmmm…. interesting….? Do the independents / minor parties get their own section to govern as well? I suspect everyone would move out of the Liberal section into that one, but the rest of your comments about the Liberal section seem more spot on.

The independents / minor parties will move to Oaks Estate.

Oh ok, I presumed the Greens had taken over that part and added Bus and Tram services to it! Oh well, im sure the independents / minor parties will do wonders with Oaks Estate and turn it into the best place to live in Canberra!

Masquara Masquara 6:10 pm 04 Sep 16

Cost?

JC JC 6:11 pm 04 Sep 16

dungfungus said :

The public transport choices are going to be:

1. Stand in a tram and arrive later than a bus travelling the same route.
0r
2. Sit in a bus and get there faster.

Why spend billions for something inferior to what is already available?

And for Damien Haas to suggest that trams are a solution to road congestion is totally false as anyone who as ever travelled on a Melbourne tram knows.

Melbourne is for the most part a tramway netwrok, with trams running on roads mixed in with all the other traffic. Except for half of two lines 96 and 109 which operate as light rail (you do know there is a difference between a tramway and light rail?). Anyway anyone who has ever traveled on them knows they go fast and are not effected on the light rail section by traffic.

rommeldog56 rommeldog56 6:31 pm 04 Sep 16

Mordd / Chris Richards said :

Oh ok, I presumed the Greens had taken over that part and added Bus and Tram services to it! Oh well, im sure the independents / minor parties will do wonders with Oaks Estate and turn it into the best place to live in Canberra!

Nah – when he was TAMS Minister, the Greens Shane Rattenburry didnt even know that Oakes Estate was part of the ACT.

rommeldog56 rommeldog56 8:44 pm 04 Sep 16

Masquara said :

Cost?

Why bother ? Cost of the Tram has become irrelevant. Just knock up a bogey business case, ignore the Environmental Impact Statement, give the new works to the existing Tram consortia and hit up the well heeled but seemingly apathetic ACT Ratepayers for the $. Job done.

dungfungus dungfungus 7:39 am 05 Sep 16

JC said :

dungfungus said :

The public transport choices are going to be:

1. Stand in a tram and arrive later than a bus travelling the same route.
0r
2. Sit in a bus and get there faster.

Why spend billions for something inferior to what is already available?

And for Damien Haas to suggest that trams are a solution to road congestion is totally false as anyone who as ever travelled on a Melbourne tram knows.

Melbourne is for the most part a tramway network, with trams running on roads mixed in with all the other traffic. Except for half of two lines 96 and 109 which operate as light rail (you do know there is a difference between a tramway and light rail?). Anyway anyone who has ever travelled on them knows they go fast and are not effected on the light rail section by traffic.

The maximum speed of Canberra’s trams running on light rail will be 70kph but with regular stops and starts the average speed between city and Gungahlin will be lucky to be average 25kph.

Conversely, travelling by car from Gungahlin to City via GDE and Barry Drive the speed limit is 90kph most of the way, with fewer stops.

While Melbourne has the world’s longest tram network (250 kilometres) it is also one of the slowest, with an average speed of just 16kmh as trams spend more than 17 per cent of their journey time stopped at traffic lights.

If you believe that Canberra’s trams will avoid stopping at traffic lights for cross traffic then you would also believe in the tooth fairy.

JC JC 8:32 am 05 Sep 16

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

The public transport choices are going to be:

1. Stand in a tram and arrive later than a bus travelling the same route.
0r
2. Sit in a bus and get there faster.

Why spend billions for something inferior to what is already available?

And for Damien Haas to suggest that trams are a solution to road congestion is totally false as anyone who as ever travelled on a Melbourne tram knows.

Melbourne is for the most part a tramway network, with trams running on roads mixed in with all the other traffic. Except for half of two lines 96 and 109 which operate as light rail (you do know there is a difference between a tramway and light rail?). Anyway anyone who has ever travelled on them knows they go fast and are not effected on the light rail section by traffic.

The maximum speed of Canberra’s trams running on light rail will be 70kph but with regular stops and starts the average speed between city and Gungahlin will be lucky to be average 25kph.

Conversely, travelling by car from Gungahlin to City via GDE and Barry Drive the speed limit is 90kph most of the way, with fewer stops.

While Melbourne has the world’s longest tram network (250 kilometres) it is also one of the slowest, with an average speed of just 16kmh as trams spend more than 17 per cent of their journey time stopped at traffic lights.

If you believe that Canberra’s trams will avoid stopping at traffic lights for cross traffic then you would also believe in the tooth fairy.

Nice post, but don’t see the point. Yes cars are faster than light rail, or bus or what ever. Public transport will never ever ever be faster, so what?

Yes Melbourne does have a large TRAMWAY network and it is slow. About as slow as buses and just a little slower than car traffic using the SAME roads. However our light rail system is NOT panning on running on the road, it is using its own right of way. And yes light rail will need to cross other roads and will probably need to stop at lights too, just like the cars in the adjacent roadway and the buses that already run on the same road.

Oh and Gungahlin to the City using GDE and you 90km/h speed limit. Whilst I realise you didn’t say it was all the way, the route you mentioned is only 90km/h from the Barton Highway to the Belconnen Way turn off.

So in reality what you have, if say coming from Nicholls shops in peak hour is two roundabouts on an 80km/h road that each have tail backs and single lane road. The lights crossing Gundaroo road where you can be sure you are going to get stuck for a few minutes. Then the road becomes dual carriageway but you are going to get stopped at at least one of the roads into Palmserston and if it is the first one that also feeds the town centre, and extended wait. Then you will get stopped at one of the two lights into Mitchell. Then you get to the 90km/h section, which at peak will probably be closer to 80km/h. A few minutes to the Belconnen way exit, where you can expect to be stopped at lights for 3-4 minutes. Then run into the City, you will probably get through the MacArthur Ave lights, but stopped at the Clunnies Ross lights, or if you are lucky the Uni lights. You then need to keep going through another 5 sets of lights to get to the Canberra Centre carpark, including crossing Northborne Ave, which will be another 3-4 minute wait.

Now I just googled this trip and for 18km it is 29 minutes. So an average of around 36km/h, and oh that doesn’t include the time to find a park.

Now to use that journey on light rail, using the planned park and ride it is 15 minutes drive to the park and ride, 5 minutes to park and then 15-20 minutes to the terminus in the City. You also need to factor in you may have to wait up to 6 minutes for a tram in peak hour. So 45 minutes MAX. Yeah 15 minutes slower than car, but I would do that to avoid the cost of paying to park in the City.

Mordd / Chris Richards Mordd / Chris Richards 9:59 am 05 Sep 16

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

The public transport choices are going to be:

1. Stand in a tram and arrive later than a bus travelling the same route.
0r
2. Sit in a bus and get there faster.

Why spend billions for something inferior to what is already available?

And for Damien Haas to suggest that trams are a solution to road congestion is totally false as anyone who as ever travelled on a Melbourne tram knows.

Melbourne is for the most part a tramway network, with trams running on roads mixed in with all the other traffic. Except for half of two lines 96 and 109 which operate as light rail (you do know there is a difference between a tramway and light rail?). Anyway anyone who has ever travelled on them knows they go fast and are not effected on the light rail section by traffic.

The maximum speed of Canberra’s trams running on light rail will be 70kph but with regular stops and starts the average speed between city and Gungahlin will be lucky to be average 25kph.

Conversely, travelling by car from Gungahlin to City via GDE and Barry Drive the speed limit is 90kph most of the way, with fewer stops.

While Melbourne has the world’s longest tram network (250 kilometres) it is also one of the slowest, with an average speed of just 16kmh as trams spend more than 17 per cent of their journey time stopped at traffic lights.

If you believe that Canberra’s trams will avoid stopping at traffic lights for cross traffic then you would also believe in the tooth fairy.

Sure, please record your trip during peak times and show me how much of the time you spend doing 90 in peak hour traffic… what’s that, doing 90 in peak hour traffic is impossible? Oh yeh, that’s right, it is! More spin and lies from the rusted on Liberal sycophants.

dungfungus dungfungus 11:02 am 05 Sep 16

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

The public transport choices are going to be:

1. Stand in a tram and arrive later than a bus travelling the same route.
0r
2. Sit in a bus and get there faster.

Why spend billions for something inferior to what is already available?

And for Damien Haas to suggest that trams are a solution to road congestion is totally false as anyone who as ever travelled on a Melbourne tram knows.

Melbourne is for the most part a tramway network, with trams running on roads mixed in with all the other traffic. Except for half of two lines 96 and 109 which operate as light rail (you do know there is a difference between a tramway and light rail?). Anyway anyone who has ever travelled on them knows they go fast and are not effected on the light rail section by traffic.

The maximum speed of Canberra’s trams running on light rail will be 70kph but with regular stops and starts the average speed between city and Gungahlin will be lucky to be average 25kph.

Conversely, travelling by car from Gungahlin to City via GDE and Barry Drive the speed limit is 90kph most of the way, with fewer stops.

While Melbourne has the world’s longest tram network (250 kilometres) it is also one of the slowest, with an average speed of just 16kmh as trams spend more than 17 per cent of their journey time stopped at traffic lights.

If you believe that Canberra’s trams will avoid stopping at traffic lights for cross traffic then you would also believe in the tooth fairy.

Nice post, but don’t see the point. Yes cars are faster than light rail, or bus or what ever. Public transport will never ever ever be faster, so what?

Yes Melbourne does have a large TRAMWAY network and it is slow. About as slow as buses and just a little slower than car traffic using the SAME roads. However our light rail system is NOT panning on running on the road, it is using its own right of way. And yes light rail will need to cross other roads and will probably need to stop at lights too, just like the cars in the adjacent roadway and the buses that already run on the same road.

Oh and Gungahlin to the City using GDE and you 90km/h speed limit. Whilst I realise you didn’t say it was all the way, the route you mentioned is only 90km/h from the Barton Highway to the Belconnen Way turn off.

So in reality what you have, if say coming from Nicholls shops in peak hour is two roundabouts on an 80km/h road that each have tail backs and single lane road. The lights crossing Gundaroo road where you can be sure you are going to get stuck for a few minutes. Then the road becomes dual carriageway but you are going to get stopped at at least one of the roads into Palmserston and if it is the first one that also feeds the town centre, and extended wait. Then you will get stopped at one of the two lights into Mitchell. Then you get to the 90km/h section, which at peak will probably be closer to 80km/h. A few minutes to the Belconnen way exit, where you can expect to be stopped at lights for 3-4 minutes. Then run into the City, you will probably get through the MacArthur Ave lights, but stopped at the Clunnies Ross lights, or if you are lucky the Uni lights. You then need to keep going through another 5 sets of lights to get to the Canberra Centre carpark, including crossing Northborne Ave, which will be another 3-4 minute wait.

Now I just googled this trip and for 18km it is 29 minutes. So an average of around 36km/h, and oh that doesn’t include the time to find a park.

Now to use that journey on light rail, using the planned park and ride it is 15 minutes drive to the park and ride, 5 minutes to park and then 15-20 minutes to the terminus in the City. You also need to factor in you may have to wait up to 6 minutes for a tram in peak hour. So 45 minutes MAX. Yeah 15 minutes slower than car, but I would do that to avoid the cost of paying to park in the City.

“Now I just googled this trip and for 18km it is 29 minutes………….”

I had an old, slow car like that once…………………

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