14 March 2009

My dog + Your dog = ?

| weeziepops
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Every night I put my stafford on his lead and head out for a walk. He stays on his lead for the duration of the walk and I pick up his poop in accordance with requirements. In short, we don’t impact negatively on anyone as we enjoy our evening stroll.

Last night, I had to contend with two very yappy Pomeranians who stopped traffic by standing in the middle of the road and barking at us before deciding to push their luck by coming over to have a go at my dog. I then enjoyed an interaction with a woman who, seeing that I was holding my dog back from the path, deigned to unglue her mobile phone from her ear long enough to assure me that her dog (off lead, of course, and eager to spend some quality time in my personal space) was “harmless”.

That’s great, I told her, but how do you know mine is?

In fact, he isn’t great with other dogs – I keep him on a lead and expect other dog owners to do the same. And if my dog behaved the way those Pomeranians did, I’m sure people would be baying for his blood.

Rules apply to little dogs, too, you know!

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Hank said :

Not all small dogs should get a bad rap. I have a pug and almost every dog growls at him; his reaction is to lie on his back and expose his fat tummy ready to be eaten. On the other hand I have to say I’ve have never met a normal toy poodle, they all snap and bark and are overall horrible animals (the ones I’ve met).

I have a little shih tzu and am mortified to say that he has started growling & barking at big (friendly) dogs! I say to him (cause you know, he understands human) ‘WHAT are you doing??! He could have you in one bite!’ – but at the business end, I will a) always tell him off for starting fights so as to try & teach him better behaviour and b) keep him on a lead at all times in public spaces. I do this as much for his safety (he is tiny – it would not end well for him) as I do it for the other dogs – because I hate to think that he would bait a big dog, big dog would bite him, and big dog would be the one put down. Really not fair – so as a small dog lover, I am 100% behind the big dog owners here!

Just because they are wee does not mean they can’t cause significant trouble!

Not all small dogs should get a bad rap. I have a pug and almost every dog growls at him; his reaction is to lie on his back and expose his fat tummy ready to be eaten. On the other hand I have to say I’ve have never met a normal toy poodle, they all snap and bark and are overall horrible animals (the ones I’ve met).

A vet told me that if every dog was kept on the lead when they were on walks he’d be out of business! Save your pocket and keep your dog on a lead. That way it can’t run onto the road or attack people or other dogs, and prevent it being attacked (hopefully). I’d love for my dog to run free but there are too many hazzards out there, and I love her too much. It’s a small sacrifice to ensure I’ll have her till old age. And she loves her walks, on the lead or off!

Madame Workalot said :

Thank you Holden, I was trying to find words for that sentiment but couldn’t do it without being nasty!

Dogs by their very nature are unpredictable. They cannot be expected to be kept completely under control of their owner by verbal command only. It is our responsibility as pet owners to ensure they are under complete control in variable areas, for their own safety as well as the safety of others.

if you let a dog off the leash in an area where i and my kids are, even if you cannot see me, you put my children at risk. off leash areas are designed so that littlies can walk at the park without fear.

if joycestanton’s dog came bounding up to me, with my kids, I don’t care how trained the dog is. my kids aren’t trained to react calmly, they will carry on a treat. or run away, or do something the dog won’t expect. and then I will be forced to use my big walking stick to defend them.

I don’t do it often. i haven’t needed to. but saying that your dog off the leash because there aren’t any victims around, well, that is a bit of a joke. How do you know? and for the record, all 3 kids are allergic to dogs. we operate a strict no dogs policy in my house, the last thing I need is to spend a week in hospital whilst the kids struggle to breathe.

oh, and would you walk across the oval / park or area you were in to bag their droppings? off leash, they can go where they please.

astrojax said :

three post nutbag.

someone had to say it. ; )

xo

I went to a zoo on the weekend and it only had a dog in it. It was a Shi-Tzu.

three post nutbag.

someone had to say it. ; )

bloody italics

Madame Workalot said :

JoyceStanton said :

I think you’re wrong. How about someone who is absolutely terrified of dogs? … Alternatively, if you’re not prepared to take your dog to a designated area for them to run free, you should consider a cat instead.

Couldn’t agree more MW. Who speaks for the dog-phobic? As for cats, don’t get me started on cat-owners who take no responsibility for their little predators’ killing off the local wildlife (Princess Jesus, I hope you’re reading this).

I always call Domestic Animal Services when I see dogs roaming unsupervised. Having been a big dog owner for most of my life, I understand that people who don’t know my dogs will often feel a bit nervous/anxious/terrified by them when they come bounding up, so I never take them anywhere without a leash, and I always live in houses with big fences to keep them in.

Owners who can’t see beyond how their cute little poochie behaves at home and are dismissive of the need to err on the side of caution for the people who live on the other side of their little picket-fenced dream world need a solid wake-up call. I know of several cases of children being bitten by local dogs and the owners always seem to respond with some dumb-assed sentiment about how little poochie’s never done anything like that before…or worse “the child must have done something to provoke him…”

I can’t see community education having much impact, as many of the owners of unsupervised dogs are so blind/naive/self-centred that they assume it’s always the other person/dog/dog owner. Can we have open season for roaming dogs, perhaps one month a year, where the local citizenry can gun up and hoon around the streets shooting the loose ones and draping their carcasses over the bonnet (no, I’m not particularly sentimental about pets). Might get over the threshold of some selfish owners – might being the operative word.

Madame Workalot10:37 am 16 Mar 09

Thank you Holden, I was trying to find words for that sentiment but couldn’t do it without being nasty!

Dogs by their very nature are unpredictable. They cannot be expected to be kept completely under control of their owner by verbal command only. It is our responsibility as pet owners to ensure they are under complete control in variable areas, for their own safety as well as the safety of others.

Holden Caulfield10:34 am 16 Mar 09

Dogs off a lead always being under control. Haha, that’s a good laugh. I bet Joyce thinks all she needs to do to be a “good” driver is keep under the speed limit.

Madame Workalot10:31 am 16 Mar 09

JoyceStanton said :

Precisely weezie! The dogs need to be in control,like mine(anytime,anywhere,anyplace)…that’s the whole point. But hey,I’m breaking the law…where no victim lies.

I think you’re wrong. How about someone who is absolutely terrified of dogs? They have a reasonable expectation to walk in a street and NOT see dogs off the lead (regardless of if you think they’re under your control or not). Are they not a victim?

If you don’t have enough room at home for your dog to run around in the yard, perhaps you should reconsider owning a pet. Alternatively, if you’re not prepared to take your dog to a designated area for them to run free, you should consider a cat instead.

I think the problem with little dogs is that they don’t get trained properly. A big dog behaving badly is much scarier than a little dog behaving badly, so people take steps to train the big dog, but the little dog just gets away with it.

That said, I hate and despise our neighbours who have a big, aggressive rottie in their backyard which goes mental everytime someone in our unit complex ventures anywhere near our carpark (which backs on to their back yard). I have never seen our neighbours walk the dog or interact with it, and they recently expanded their fenced-off deck area so the kids could have more outdoor space to play in safe from the dog. It is so tragic to see a dog trained to be so aggressive it can never be taken out or let near the children.

Holden Caulfield10:25 am 16 Mar 09

ant said :

Got bitten?

No, they just shit me. I quite like “proper” dogs.

Reckon you’re on to something RuffnReady @#19.

We have three yappy little dogs (all foisted on us!) and they’ll go off at anything at the drop of a hat. Interestingly, Pekingese and Shih Tsu’s are some of the oldest breeds in the world and are actually pretty closely related to wolves.

My theory’s always been that while WE see three irritating and aggravating fluffballs being a pain in arse to real dogs out on walks, THEY see themselves as mighty hunters bringing down herds of caribou on the Steppes. Sadly, reality will never penetrate the one brain cell they share between them.

JoyceStanton9:29 am 16 Mar 09

Precisely weezie! The dogs need to be in control,like mine(anytime,anywhere,anyplace)…that’s the whole point. But hey,I’m breaking the law…where no victim lies.

Noting, of course, that dogs still need to be under control even in off lead areas. A friend of mine was abused when she objected to a dog barrelling up to her and her dogs (who were on lead) in such an area.

deezagood said :

ant said :

I had a boy chihuahua who used to fight next door’s husky on a regular basis. The Husky would invade, kill our ducks, chihuahua would try to fight him, and have to go to the vet. It was quite a routine. One time it happened I was at work, but my mother reported that the dog went to where my car was usually parked, ready for his usual trip to the vet to get patched up.

And earlier boy took on a golden retriever who came onto our place once. As he launched the Ultimate Attack on the retriever, and latched onto its neck, the big dog lifted its head in surprise and as the chihuahua was lifted off his feet, the look in his eyes was priceless: “what the flap do I do now?!”. He didn’t let go though.

That is a funny story Ant – sounds as though you have had a few charactors in the past. Apparently that kid’s movie ‘Beverly Hills Chihuahua’ has put the breed on top of the ‘must have’ list!

That story cracked me up!

On a different note – If someone approaches your dog while it is on lead and goe to pet it without warning and permission and the dog snaps at them. Who’s fault is it? is it always the dogs fault?

JoyceStanton said :

I take my pooch off the lead when there appears to be nobody around. I do this because the dog loves this so much,is harmless enough, and because I’m no sadist. Is it really so bad to let a dog with such a fiercely-friendly disposition,bound so freely? Oh so sorry,it’s the law. Well,back in the cage you go,doggy. It’s bad enough that law and its interpretation is/has oppressed so many humans, but can we at least maintain a civil posture towards ‘mans beast friend’?

You’d be pleasantly surprised as to how many off lead areas there are. I was.

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/live/pets/wherecanitakemydog

Pommy bastard7:16 am 16 Mar 09

“It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.”

Holden Caulfield said :

Small yappy dogs are a blight on the existence of every other life form on the planet.

Got bitten?

Well, at least the bite of a chihuahua is worse than its bark.

Holden Caulfield9:15 pm 15 Mar 09

Small yappy dogs are a blight on the existence of every other life form on the planet.

ant said :

I had a boy chihuahua who used to fight next door’s husky on a regular basis. The Husky would invade, kill our ducks, chihuahua would try to fight him, and have to go to the vet. It was quite a routine. One time it happened I was at work, but my mother reported that the dog went to where my car was usually parked, ready for his usual trip to the vet to get patched up.

And earlier boy took on a golden retriever who came onto our place once. As he launched the Ultimate Attack on the retriever, and latched onto its neck, the big dog lifted its head in surprise and as the chihuahua was lifted off his feet, the look in his eyes was priceless: “what the flap do I do now?!”. He didn’t let go though.

That is a funny story Ant – sounds as though you have had a few charactors in the past. Apparently that kid’s movie ‘Beverly Hills Chihuahua’ has put the breed on top of the ‘must have’ list!

I’m with you, RuffnReady. If people want to let their dogs off their leads, they should do it with the clear understanding that they are responsible for what happens. If, therefore, their dog comes over to my dog and my dog takes a piece out of it, that’s the risk of giving them “freedom”. There are dog parks around for people who want to let their dogs off lead – let’s not kid ourselves that keeping them on lead in public areas is in any way inflicting harm upon these dogs. If anything, the opposite is true. In short, oppressive my a@se.

I had a boy chihuahua who used to fight next door’s husky on a regular basis. The Husky would invade, kill our ducks, chihuahua would try to fight him, and have to go to the vet. It was quite a routine. One time it happened I was at work, but my mother reported that the dog went to where my car was usually parked, ready for his usual trip to the vet to get patched up.

And earlier boy took on a golden retriever who came onto our place once. As he launched the Ultimate Attack on the retriever, and latched onto its neck, the big dog lifted its head in surprise and as the chihuahua was lifted off his feet, the look in his eyes was priceless: “what the flap do I do now?!”. He didn’t let go though.

Chihuahuas are so funny; they are absolutely tiny, and gamely try to terrorise my Mum’s rescued greyhound (who is at least 40kgs) on our walks – they seemingly have absolutely no idea that the greyhound could snap them in two with a well-placed nip. In fact the whole chihuahua would fit in the grey’s mouth. I admire their gumption, I really do!

Ruff’n’ready, spot on. In fact, I reckon that originally, there were many big dogs with the same mentality as small dogs now. But having a chihuahua-style dog weighing 40 kilos was not a good thing, so those types of dogs didn’t survive. So you have lots of nice, docile big dogs, and the only remaining savage dogs are the tiny ones.

I’ve got surgistrips holding my nose together, as Mr Chihuahua was evidently dreaming of his prior life as a wolf when I woke him up and he just about got the entire nose off. He was Cujo in miniture, coming back for another go. Made a real mess of it actually.

I think little dogs have a lot of the original wolf genes in them, mentally anyway.

JoyceStanton6:07 pm 15 Mar 09

“Your rights end where the next person’s begin.*A nonsensical statement if there ever was one* If you can verbally command your dog to distance itself from others, maybe you are right, but if not, forget it. I don’t want your dog, or anyone else’s, licking,slobbering (on or biting me, and that’s my right. *Personally, I think you should allow those dogs to take such ‘liberties’ upon you…*I doubt you’ll get any angrier than you are now,and it just might serve you mightily with regard to theraputic value.*

JoyceStanton5:54 pm 15 Mar 09

Oppressive as in…the price of food,alcohol,tobacco,shelter,energy consumption,misappropriated tax $’s,the lack of a right to bear arms,the lack of a right to not buckle-up…just off the top of my head…..

JoyceStanton said :

I take my pooch off the lead when there appears to be nobody around. I do this because the dog loves this so much,is harmless enough, and because I’m no sadist. Is it really so bad to let a dog with such a fiercely-friendly disposition,bound so freely? Oh so sorry,it’s the law. Well,back in the cage you go,doggy. It’s bad enough that law and its interpretation is/has oppressed so many humans, but can we at least maintain a civil posture towards ‘mans beast friend’?

We live in a legally oppressive state? News to me. I feel quite free. if you think we are “oppressed by the law” I think you have a strange perspective on oppression.

Your rights end where the next person’s begin. If you can verbally command your dog to distance itself from others, maybe you are right, but if not, forget it. I don’t want your dog, or anyone else’s, licking, slobbering on or biting me, and that’s my right.

I’ve thought long and hard about why small dogs are often so combative when they are clearly overmatched by everything from cats on up, and the answer is obvious – their hard-wired instincts are still those of a big dog or even wolf. When you think about it, selective breeding of dogs has altered many characteristics, but it takes 10s-100s of thousands of years of evolution by natural selection to modify basic behaviours. A few hundred years of artificial selection is not going to touch those basic, neurologically hard-wired behavioural instincts.

Thus, these little dogs still think they are wolves (at least in their deep, hard-wired genetic programming), and without the ability for self-reflection that our brain gives us, they are quite unaware of their predicament in taking on the world with such belligerence!

JoyceStanton4:59 pm 15 Mar 09

I take my pooch off the lead when there appears to be nobody around. I do this because the dog loves this so much,is harmless enough, and because I’m no sadist. Is it really so bad to let a dog with such a fiercely-friendly disposition,bound so freely? Oh so sorry,it’s the law. Well,back in the cage you go,doggy. It’s bad enough that law and its interpretation is/has oppressed so many humans, but can we at least maintain a civil posture towards ‘mans beast friend’?

Must be that time of year.
People a few doors up got a small dog for Xmas and now it is old news. Spends most of its day out of the yard barking and annoying everyone who walks by. The owners just say “it’s too small to hurt anyone”

The kids have to pass it to get to the bus stop and it chases them barking but the owners don’t seem to think that’s an issue.

Pommy bastard2:41 pm 15 Mar 09

Whatsup said :

My big dog is frequently snapped growled and barked at by little dogs either on or off lead in parks. He often ends up hiding behind my legs, all 39kg of him.

My small dogs only ever attacks big mutts when she’s on a lead. On the few occasions she’s slipped her collar she’s either legged it, or had a chunk bitten out of her.

Serves the damn stupid mutt’s own fault then.

My big dog is frequently snapped growled and barked at by little dogs either on or off lead in parks. He often ends up hiding behind my legs, all 39kg of him.

good on ya, weeziepops, for your responsible dog ownership. i have a rotty, who is a big sook and intensely friendly, wanting to play with everything and everyone. she walks in the street on a lead but is free to interact with other dawgs in the oval, and when she fetches (sometimes!) the ball…

i know she’s pure friendship [as she nuzzles under my arm licking me while i am trying to type this!] but get annoyed when little yappy things think it their right to yelp, snap and attack her as we pass on the street. there is a bit of an alpha female dog next door and while my dog is still always wanting to play, dognextdoor still gets snippy on occasion and they wrestle – mine, in play, still manages to dominate the neighbour who is in earnest, so i wouldn’t like to have her (mine) ever in a real fight.

but her nature is to slobber, not slaughter…

it’s a great pity more owners aren’t more responsible, and we’d all get along, innit!

Yep, our 13 year old 3-legged chihuahua starts more fights now than she ever did.

I often wonder who would be at fault if a dog on lead had a good snap at an off-lead intruder? If some damage was done, which owner would be held accountable. I would hope it was the off-lead dog but am not sure?

That sounds exactly like my my dog! She is the scourge of backyard starlings.

i have the same problem i’ve had many disagreements with a lady who walks her 3 maltesse’s off leads at our local oval yapping at everything they see we (my 8 year old girls and partner)had too change where we walk our dogs 3 rottweilers all on leads and halters as we feared for our dogs attacking them if they invaded their personal space as one is not good with other dogs after beening attacked itself as a puppy.
we were informed that even if her dogs are off the lead and our were on their on theirs we would more than likely lose our beloved pets if they attacked her dogs although we weren’t in the wrong

outdoormagoo6:23 pm 14 Mar 09

weeziepops, I have 2 purebred Bull Mastiffs and people crap them selves when the 3 of us come down the street. However the little yapyap dog next door has bitten at least 3 people, myself, their owner and my wife, and my dogs have never threatened anyone. My dogs also do not yap or bark, as they are well loved, fed and cared for.

What is the point of stupid little dogs which serve no purpose but to annoy people.

And given how much money owners of special breed small dogs are prepared to pay for them, I would have thought they would want to protect their investment a bit better – two small dogs versus traffic as well as versus me and my dog, well, the odds aren’t really in their favour. These dogs don’t know any better, but their owners should. Next time, I’ll be taking my dog home and going back to pick up the poms and take them to the RSPCA so they have to pay a reclaim fee to get them back – might make them consider keeping their pets in their yard.

PB – staffords do get a bad rap for no good reason, but it’s nothing to how people react to my poor old mastiff cross. Talk about passing sentence before determining guilt or otherwise! It comes down to people whose poor ownership practices impact on undeserving dogs.

Well no-one ever said dog owners were a considerate bunch if the continous yapping of a dog three houses up is any indication.

All kudos to responsible pet owners but thumbs down to the selfish ones who don’t care about shift workers needing their sleep.

gun street girl5:41 pm 14 Mar 09

Agreed. Despite that, they don’t seem to sense that even a restrained big dog will make a meal of them if they go looking for trouble. Hence, it’s up to the owners of these guileless little dogs to keep them out of harm’s way.

Yes, small dogs will often go out of their way to pick fights. They’re often quite savage and seem to like fighting, the bigger the other dog the better.

Pomeranians and other small dogs have little man syndrome.

Pommy bastard3:50 pm 14 Mar 09

Staffy’s are lovely dogs with an undeserved reputation. (I’m biased)

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