15 October 2011

Neighbour exposing themselves and urination on public property doesn’t seem to be a problem with crimestoppers

| AngryRanter
Join the conversation
59

On a Saturday morning I woke up to some loud noises coming from my block. I went to get a drink of water and outside the window i saw one of the neighbours drop their pants and urinate outside someone’s kitchen window while the others were running around in circles.

One of them had a shaved head and was swearing and laughing like he wanted to kill something.

I felt like that they were going to be a problem so I called crimestoppers and told them what happened and he said nothing can be done unless I take him to court. He did not send anyone over to check.

This has happened before with another neighbor and ended into a dangerous situation were an AVO was ordered by the police and a lengthy court process.

Why can’t crimestoppers stop crimes before the situation becomes a problem. These situation can get serious and innocent people get hurt.

I was not happy with the attitude of the person I was speaking to when I called crime stoppers he did not act on the situation and said something about how people get drunk and urinate in public places like it’s something I had to get use to.

Join the conversation

59
All Comments
  • All Comments
  • Website Comments
Latest
TheDancingDjinn10:06 am 02 Nov 11

Or if any of these suggestions don’t work for you. You could always feel free to mind your own business and not call the police on anyone doing what they want on their own property…
just sayin

A well placed shot with a low powered air rifle might bring a quick stop to the practice.

Tooks said :

Stevian said :

Tooks said :

On the OP, call 131444 if you want police attendance (000 for emergency). I thought everyone knew that.

Obviously not. I didn’t. We all know 000 for emergency, having had it drummed into us since we were little kids (although a lot of people seem to now think it’s 911, like we have to follow the Yanks in everything) and he adsall say “call Crimestoppers”. I think they want to keep the number for police attendance a secret, they don’t want to work any more than they have to.

Yeah that secret number that’s on every police car and in every phone book.

Sssssh Tooks, dont tell everyone or they will start looking for other things hidden in plain sight!

The Ones Who Were Running Around In Circles,Were Just Winding Up The One Who Was Urinating.
PS;Electrify A Small Old BBQ Plate Under Your Kitchen Window.

Stevian said :

zorro29 said :

i agree with you…people act like animals and just get away with it, but drive 5km over the speed limit or txt while stationary at a traffic light in a nice car and you better believe you’ll get booked.

the system is a joke…not designed to punish the right people

crime stoppers also show no interest in morons hooning endlessly around the streets leaving burnout marks…charming people

You feel you should be free to choose which laws you obey and which you can break? Then that applies to others as well

not really…i was merely saying they seem to punish the infractions that raise revenue…if you read again thanks

zorro29 said :

i agree with you…people act like animals and just get away with it, but drive 5km over the speed limit or txt while stationary at a traffic light in a nice car and you better believe you’ll get booked.

the system is a joke…not designed to punish the right people

crime stoppers also show no interest in morons hooning endlessly around the streets leaving burnout marks…charming people

You feel you should be free to choose which laws you obey and which you can break? Then that applies to others as well

Crime stopper calls in the Act are taken by Exfeds;) no not me….police assistance calls are taken by both sworn and unsworn members at police communications, the same ones that take 000.

Try indecent exposure, if witnessed to body parts, general noise complaint should get uniforms there. I would be going for a breach of peace if there was a lack of compliance which would be high on the list given the history.

i agree with you…people act like animals and just get away with it, but drive 5km over the speed limit or txt while stationary at a traffic light in a nice car and you better believe you’ll get booked.

the system is a joke…not designed to punish the right people

crime stoppers also show no interest in morons hooning endlessly around the streets leaving burnout marks…charming people

I need to move to a more exciting suburb.

farnarkler said :

Keep a supersoaker full of Dave’s insanity sauce or Blair’s 16 million reserve handy.

I like this one! Costco have fantastic supersoakers at the moment… and cheap tabasco.

LSWCHP said :

You have to wonder how someone could be raised to have so little respect for himself or other people, when there were toilets in the pub less than 20m away.

Perhaps he was French?
(Yes, I was watching Supersizers Go on SBS and was disgusted to be told people actually relieved themselves in the dark corners of the palace because the toilets were too far).

ScottNoFriendz said :

One last comment is these drunken grubs who hang around in groups and use there numbers to scare people are weak shits and trust me when i say karma will catch up with them

But clearly not a police kar-ma

Keep a supersoaker full of Dave’s insanity sauce or Blair’s 16 million reserve handy.

Stevian said :

Tooks said :

On the OP, call 131444 if you want police attendance (000 for emergency). I thought everyone knew that.

Obviously not. I didn’t. We all know 000 for emergency, having had it drummed into us since we were little kids (although a lot of people seem to now think it’s 911, like we have to follow the Yanks in everything) and he adsall say “call Crimestoppers”. I think they want to keep the number for police attendance a secret, they don’t want to work any more than they have to.

Yeah that secret number that’s on every police car and in every phone book.

Peewee Slasher2:26 pm 17 Oct 11

And seriously … a person was throwing clay flowerpots (big) with plants in them at our wall, front door, etc as they were very angry and I found out that my daughter (12 years old at the time) phoned Tugg station direct 3 times and no police appeared. She phoned the 4th time, said someone was trying to murder her and her mother and strangely, 5, yes that’s 5 police cars attended in less than 5 minutes.

I once called the Police assistance line when the house next door was getting broken into. The lady on the end of the line told me to go over to the house (11pm) check for signs of forced entry or thieves, then call her back…….

Peewee Slasher2:04 pm 17 Oct 11

I once drank too much and had to piss. The nearest available wall was a shop window. By the time I finished peeing, the police had driven past, stopped to get 10 Big Mac’s and checked out the porn shop next door. One, upon seeing me, said “Hey “big fellow” is that a fire hose or are you just glad to see me”. I replied “Constable, what with my gout condition, my doctor advised me to urinate as much as possible” which seemed to let me off the hook. In fact, this is a timely discourse, as for many who have asked me about my nom de plume, Peewee Slasher, I would suggest their enquiries are now answered.

Better out than in.

Laughing like he wanted to kill something??? Dont quite get it

I like to encourage the boys to piss outside. It saves water, seat arguments and cleaning.

How hard is it to report the house as a Meth lab and the occupants as a gang of online pedarist groomers?

Piss-take, tee hee…

milkman said :

buzz819 said :

milkman said :

Criminalising urination is crazy, and has done nothing but introduce criminal influences to what should be a pleasant and harmless activity.

We need a harm minimisation solution.

Urination is not a criminal offence, urinating in a public place is, just like drinking in a public place, having an open container of alcohol in a public place and fighting in a public place…

The families that visit Civic on a Saturday morning should not have to walk through Garema Place dodging other people’s puddle’s of Piss…

It was meant to be a piss-take…

You never know with people on this thing…

buzz819 said :

milkman said :

Criminalising urination is crazy, and has done nothing but introduce criminal influences to what should be a pleasant and harmless activity.

We need a harm minimisation solution.

Urination is not a criminal offence, urinating in a public place is, just like drinking in a public place, having an open container of alcohol in a public place and fighting in a public place…

The families that visit Civic on a Saturday morning should not have to walk through Garema Place dodging other people’s puddle’s of Piss…

It was meant to be a piss-take…

I walked into the bar of the Kingo Pub on a Wednesday night a few weeks ago, and a bloke was standing there in the middle of the driveway with a lackwitted grin on his dial and his pathetically insubstantial unit sticking out of his strides as he piddled all over the place.

You have to wonder how someone could be raised to have so little respect for himself or other people, when there were toilets in the pub less than 20m away.

ScottNoFriendz said :

Do you know what crimestoppers actually is, what it does and who answers the phone.

…deletage…

One last comment is these drunken grubs who hang around in groups and use there numbers to scare people are weak shits and trust me when i say karma will catch up with them

Now that’s what I call a paragraph!

milkman said :

Criminalising urination is crazy, and has done nothing but introduce criminal influences to what should be a pleasant and harmless activity.

We need a harm minimisation solution.

Urination is not a criminal offence, urinating in a public place is, just like drinking in a public place, having an open container of alcohol in a public place and fighting in a public place…

The families that visit Civic on a Saturday morning should not have to walk through Garema Place dodging other people’s puddle’s of Piss…

Criminalising urination is crazy, and has done nothing but introduce criminal influences to what should be a pleasant and harmless activity.

We need a harm minimisation solution.

Stevian said :

Tooks said :

On the OP, call 131444 if you want police attendance (000 for emergency). I thought everyone knew that.

I think they want to keep the number for police attendance a secret, they don’t want to work any more than they have to.

Mate, check out any police car. 131444 is on the side.

and if that suprises you, get this:

131444 is the PAL for every state/territory excluding Victoria.

SPREAD THE WORD

Siren said :

Stevian said :

I think they want to keep the number for police attendance a secret, they don’t want to work any more than they have to.

The numbers are all on the ACT Crimestoppers website:
http://www.act.crimestoppers.com.au/cs/help_solve_crime/when_do_i_call_crime_stoppers.jsp

And on every single Police car I’ve seen…

Stevian said :

I think they want to keep the number for police attendance a secret, they don’t want to work any more than they have to.

The numbers are all on the ACT Crimestoppers website:
http://www.act.crimestoppers.com.au/cs/help_solve_crime/when_do_i_call_crime_stoppers.jsp

Tooks said :

On the OP, call 131444 if you want police attendance (000 for emergency). I thought everyone knew that.

Obviously not. I didn’t. We all know 000 for emergency, having had it drummed into us since we were little kids (although a lot of people seem to now think it’s 911, like we have to follow the Yanks in everything) and he adsall say “call Crimestoppers”. I think they want to keep the number for police attendance a secret, they don’t want to work any more than they have to.

dvaey said :

bd84 said :

What’s the fine for public urination? $150 or something? Waste of police resources to send a patrol over for that, plus by the time they got there, the fools would have been long gone.

Youre right, it isnt the best use of time. Interacting with a drunk person like that, means possibly a $150 fine, but also possibly having to arrest a drunk and deal with all that paperwork. Its much easier to sit on the side of the road with a radar.. the same $150 income but much less likely to have to actually do any work..

Dvaey fishing with the same old bait. Urinating in public would result in a criminal infringement notice -about the same effort as issuing a TIN (assuming the bloke wasn’t taking a piss in his own yard or a mate’s yard).

What would be your grounds for arrest in this case dvaey? Surely you’re not suggesting unlawful arrests here? How would you positively identify the offender? Was it an offence (tellingly, the op didn’t say where the urination took place)? Should they do a wang lineup to see who did the wee? Establish a crime scene, send forensics, bring in the D’s?

bd84 said :

What’s the fine for public urination? $150 or something? Waste of police resources to send a patrol over for that, plus by the time they got there, the fools would have been long gone.

Youre right, it isnt the best use of time. Interacting with a drunk person like that, means possibly a $150 fine, but also possibly having to arrest a drunk and deal with all that paperwork. Its much easier to sit on the side of the road with a radar.. the same $150 income but much less likely to have to actually do any work..

ScottNoFriendz said :

Do you know what crimestoppers actually is, what it does and who answers the phone. Its a service set up by the police where you ring up and report any criminal or suspicous activities. The phones are answered by civilians who probably doesn`t know half the laws and should have passed the info onto the police or the very least told you the phone number for the nearest cop shop. Police should have attended the scene but they are to fat lazy and useless to do anything. That is why crimestoppers was set up. Canberra is full of dogs(informants) who are willing to speak to police to save there ass.The reality is without dogs or services like crimestoppers where police are handfeed information no crimes wouldever get solved. Lets be a realist and look at what kind of people are police. For most this is not there first or second career choice. If they tell you there always wanted to join the police force so they can protect and serve they are full of bullshit. Sure some police are geniune and want to help the public and i can respect that but what i cant respect is cops who pretend to saints and outstanding servants to the community when they are really crims themselves hiding behind badges. If you have witnessed and experienced what i have you would be horrified. Put it this way you would not want to let them through you front door. I know i am no saint but at least i know who i am and dont pretend to be something i am not. They are normally people who were bullied at school and now want to be the bully themselves, most are not very intelligent and would struggle to recite there 10 times table, most tried to get into uni or tafe but did not get accepted, most would struggle to do 20 push ups.For this they are resentful people who hate who they have become, hate there life and hate there job. I know when i am working in a job i dont enjoy i am lucky to work to 25percent of my capacity.I know i am very negative about ACT police after witnessing so many corrupt, criminal and immoral activities you just cant trust them.Sure not all police are bad and i understand they are they to do a job and i can respect the ones who do there job honestly but just be very careful next time you let them through your front door. My advice next time is just close your blinds and ignore the situation. The drunken dickheads will soon get bored and moved. If you are truly scared ring 000 and offer them donuts and not crimestoppers and the police will and have to come out. Actually dont ring the police and waste your time and effort. My advice is have a meeting with all the tenants and form a good old vilagante group where everyone watches out for each other. You watch how strong the community grows and how quickly crime rates drop in your area. Dont rely on the police, realise your strength is your neighbours and your community. There is not a safer feeling in your household when you know your neighbours are always watching your back . Whatever happened to neighbourhood watch. One last comment is these drunken grubs who hang around in groups and use there numbers to scare people are weak shits and trust me when i say karma will catch up with them

I didn’t read past the first two sentences but wow, what a retarded rant on an epic scale. Good luck passing grade three next year.

On the OP, call 131444 if you want police attendance (000 for emergency). I thought everyone knew that.

I went to get a drink of water and outside the window i saw one of the neighbours drop their pants and urinate outside someone’s kitchen window while the others were running around in circles.

Probably just doing the lemon tree a favour, that’s no crime is it??

ThatUniStudent10:22 am 16 Oct 11

th:dr – can I get an abstract please? One that makes sense?

ScottNoFriendz said :

Do you know what crimestoppers actually is, what it does and who answers the phone. Its a service set up by the police where you ring up and report any criminal or suspicous activities. The phones are answered by civilians who probably doesn`t know half the laws and should have passed the info onto the police or the very least told you the phone number for the nearest cop shop. Police should have attended the scene but they are to fat lazy and useless to do anything. That is why crimestoppers was set up. Canberra is full of dogs(informants) who are willing to speak to police to save there ass.The reality is without dogs or services like crimestoppers where police are handfeed information no crimes wouldever get solved. Lets be a realist and look at what kind of people are police. For most this is not there first or second career choice. If they tell you there always wanted to join the police force so they can protect and serve they are full of bullshit. Sure some police are geniune and want to help the public and i can respect that but what i cant respect is cops who pretend to saints and outstanding servants to the community when they are really crims themselves hiding behind badges. If you have witnessed and experienced what i have you would be horrified. Put it this way you would not want to let them through you front door. I know i am no saint but at least i know who i am and dont pretend to be something i am not. They are normally people who were bullied at school and now want to be the bully themselves, most are not very intelligent and would struggle to recite there 10 times table, most tried to get into uni or tafe but did not get accepted, most would struggle to do 20 push ups.For this they are resentful people who hate who they have become, hate there life and hate there job. I know when i am working in a job i dont enjoy i am lucky to work to 25percent of my capacity.I know i am very negative about ACT police after witnessing so many corrupt, criminal and immoral activities you just cant trust them.Sure not all police are bad and i understand they are they to do a job and i can respect the ones who do there job honestly but just be very careful next time you let them through your front door. My advice next time is just close your blinds and ignore the situation. The drunken dickheads will soon get bored and moved. If you are truly scared ring 000 and offer them donuts and not crimestoppers and the police will and have to come out. Actually dont ring the police and waste your time and effort. My advice is have a meeting with all the tenants and form a good old vilagante group where everyone watches out for each other. You watch how strong the community grows and how quickly crime rates drop in your area. Dont rely on the police, realise your strength is your neighbours and your community. There is not a safer feeling in your household when you know your neighbours are always watching your back . Whatever happened to neighbourhood watch. One last comment is these drunken grubs who hang around in groups and use there numbers to scare people are weak shits and trust me when i say karma will catch up with them

Scottnofriendz – There are cops who are nothing like what you describe.

There are also cops exactly like you describe.

I agree with a lot of what you say. I’ll leave it at that.

ScottNoFriendz said :

Do you know what crimestoppers actually is

Do you know what English actually is?

ScottNoFriendz said :

Do you know what crimestoppers actually is……

I see a flame of the week in our future

Felix the Cat6:52 am 16 Oct 11

I don’t think ringing 000 is appropriate for some drunk taking a leak in their own yard.

What’s the fine for public urination? $150 or something? Waste of police resources to send a patrol over for that, plus by the time they got there, the fools would have been long gone.

ScottNoFriendz said :

Do you know what crimestoppers actually is, what it does and who answers the phone. Its a service set up by the police where you ring up and report any criminal or suspicous activities. The phones are answered by civilians who probably doesn`t know half the laws and should have passed the info onto the police or the very least told you the phone number for the nearest cop shop. Police should have attended the scene but they are to fat lazy and useless to do anything. That is why crimestoppers was set up. Canberra is full of dogs(informants) who are willing to speak to police to save there ass.The reality is without dogs or services like crimestoppers where police are handfeed information no crimes wouldever get solved. Lets be a realist and look at what kind of people are police. For most this is not there first or second career choice. If they tell you there always wanted to join the police force so they can protect and serve they are full of bullshit. Sure some police are geniune and want to help the public and i can respect that but what i cant respect is cops who pretend to saints and outstanding servants to the community when they are really crims themselves hiding behind badges. If you have witnessed and experienced what i have you would be horrified. Put it this way you would not want to let them through you front door. I know i am no saint but at least i know who i am and dont pretend to be something i am not. They are normally people who were bullied at school and now want to be the bully themselves, most are not very intelligent and would struggle to recite there 10 times table, most tried to get into uni or tafe but did not get accepted, most would struggle to do 20 push ups.For this they are resentful people who hate who they have become, hate there life and hate there job. I know when i am working in a job i dont enjoy i am lucky to work to 25percent of my capacity.I know i am very negative about ACT police after witnessing so many corrupt, criminal and immoral activities you just cant trust them.Sure not all police are bad and i understand they are they to do a job and i can respect the ones who do there job honestly but just be very careful next time you let them through your front door. My advice next time is just close your blinds and ignore the situation. The drunken dickheads will soon get bored and moved. If you are truly scared ring 000 and offer them donuts and not crimestoppers and the police will and have to come out. Actually dont ring the police and waste your time and effort. My advice is have a meeting with all the tenants and form a good old vilagante group where everyone watches out for each other. You watch how strong the community grows and how quickly crime rates drop in your area. Dont rely on the police, realise your strength is your neighbours and your community. There is not a safer feeling in your household when you know your neighbours are always watching your back . Whatever happened to neighbourhood watch. One last comment is these drunken grubs who hang around in groups and use there numbers to scare people are weak shits and trust me when i say karma will catch up with them

I believe Crimestoppers mainly aims to rid the world of paragraphs.

Scott, are the cops here really that bad??

ScottNoFriendz11:20 pm 15 Oct 11

Do you know what crimestoppers actually is, what it does and who answers the phone. Its a service set up by the police where you ring up and report any criminal or suspicous activities. The phones are answered by civilians who probably doesn`t know half the laws and should have passed the info onto the police or the very least told you the phone number for the nearest cop shop. Police should have attended the scene but they are to fat lazy and useless to do anything. That is why crimestoppers was set up. Canberra is full of dogs(informants) who are willing to speak to police to save there ass.The reality is without dogs or services like crimestoppers where police are handfeed information no crimes wouldever get solved. Lets be a realist and look at what kind of people are police. For most this is not there first or second career choice. If they tell you there always wanted to join the police force so they can protect and serve they are full of bullshit. Sure some police are geniune and want to help the public and i can respect that but what i cant respect is cops who pretend to saints and outstanding servants to the community when they are really crims themselves hiding behind badges. If you have witnessed and experienced what i have you would be horrified. Put it this way you would not want to let them through you front door. I know i am no saint but at least i know who i am and dont pretend to be something i am not. They are normally people who were bullied at school and now want to be the bully themselves, most are not very intelligent and would struggle to recite there 10 times table, most tried to get into uni or tafe but did not get accepted, most would struggle to do 20 push ups.For this they are resentful people who hate who they have become, hate there life and hate there job. I know when i am working in a job i dont enjoy i am lucky to work to 25percent of my capacity.I know i am very negative about ACT police after witnessing so many corrupt, criminal and immoral activities you just cant trust them.Sure not all police are bad and i understand they are they to do a job and i can respect the ones who do there job honestly but just be very careful next time you let them through your front door. My advice next time is just close your blinds and ignore the situation. The drunken dickheads will soon get bored and moved. If you are truly scared ring 000 and offer them donuts and not crimestoppers and the police will and have to come out. Actually dont ring the police and waste your time and effort. My advice is have a meeting with all the tenants and form a good old vilagante group where everyone watches out for each other. You watch how strong the community grows and how quickly crime rates drop in your area. Dont rely on the police, realise your strength is your neighbours and your community. There is not a safer feeling in your household when you know your neighbours are always watching your back . Whatever happened to neighbourhood watch. One last comment is these drunken grubs who hang around in groups and use there numbers to scare people are weak shits and trust me when i say karma will catch up with them

ThatUniStudent10:13 pm 15 Oct 11

Hahahahahaha! Angry Ranter, well deserved name.
From your description, that was my mates pissing on the lawn across the road from you. It’s okay mate, that’s our mate Dave’s place. It was all in fun and jest. Dave spewed up in Johnno’s car weeks back so we were just paying him back.
But yeah, great to know you’re across the road mate. Johnno says to aplagise for giviing you something exciting in your life and next time we’ll restrict it to some extreme ironing instead.
Dave says stop perving on his lawn in the middle of he night or he’ll sling his 10 year old unused fireworks over your yard. He also says who is pissing on his lawn in the middle of the night drunk as a skunk is his businessess, and they were not as think as you drink they were.
Your sincirley, the drunken bastards from across the road.

It’s probably not worth overreacting. I suggest lobbing a couple of molotov cocktails in through their living room window.

wildturkeycanoe6:56 pm 15 Oct 11

It’s great that you have a view out of your kitchen window at someone else kitchen window. Now, how many houses have a kitchen at the front yard? If they weren’t at the front yard and they were a neighbor, they must have been your neighbors in their own backyard and own kitchen window? Perhaps the shaved headed person was cursing at the one who shaved him, the one who shaved him was peeing because they had a bet they couldn’t hold their bladder until the head was shaved and…..what hour of the morning did all this take place. No wonder crime stoppers dismissed it, sounds like what I witnessed at 7pm during Skyfire this year at the glow stick stall.

“This has happened before with another neighbor”

Perhaps you should ask what you are doing that attracts these sort of incidents

I very much doubt what you ‘heard’ and what you’re so indignant about was what you were told. You were probably asked whether or not you’d be prepared to make a formal statement to police and attend court if necessary, or whether you wished to stay anonymous.

In any event, crimestoppers don’t send police around to ‘check things out’, they record information and pass it on.

If you want police to attend because you’re bothered by the noise, you need to call the aptly named police attendance line on 131444. That phone number isn’t free though… Is that why you called crimestoppers – for the free call?

TheDancingDjinn6:21 pm 15 Oct 11

You got that worked up about seing some guys wang? – wow i usually just laugh, they are a funny looking thing after all 😛

Photos. Should be good for a laugh.

taninaus said :

You would be better off calling Police operations on 11444 not crimestoppers – then you are guaranteed to speak to a police person or someone at the main centre – I am not sure who answers the phones for crimestoppers but i have always had the impression from the ads that it is more information/evidence gathering than when you need Police attendance.

Yes, except it’s 131 444.

Crimestoppers calls from the ACT are answered by (unsworn) members at winchester. 131444 (Police assistance line) is answered by (unsworn) memebrs at winchester. They’re the same people.

If you want to speak to a police officer, go to a police station, cause they certainly not attending for an incident as described above.

Tar and feather

creative_canberran4:42 pm 15 Oct 11

Crimestoppers? Heck while we’re at it let’s call the SES and ASIO to fix these punks.

You would be better off calling Police operations on 11444 not crimestoppers – then you are guaranteed to speak to a police person or someone at the main centre – I am not sure who answers the phones for crimestoppers but i have always had the impression from the ads that it is more information/evidence gathering than when you need Police attendance.

Wait, did you call Crimestoppers, or Police attendance?

“Why can’t crimestoppers stop crimes before the situation becomes a problem. These situation can get serious and innocent people get hurt.”

Having a shaved head, laughing, and running around in circles is not illegal. Swearing and urinating in public is an offence, but would generally be unlikely to lead to a serious situation where innocent people can get hurt, and subsequently would have to be close to the bottom of police priorities.

suck it up. the police aren’t going to pay your street a visit just because your neighbour pissed on their own front lawn and you happened to see it

Daily Digest

Want the best Canberra news delivered daily? Every day we package the most popular Riotact stories and send them straight to your inbox. Sign-up now for trusted local news that will never be behind a paywall.

By submitting your email address you are agreeing to Region Group's terms and conditions and privacy policy.