New outdoor smoking laws from 9th December.

Tooks said :

fragge said :

Wow check out the vehement anti-smoker drivel in this thread, way to over-generalise more than 1 billion people as drug-addicted scum. Just because you get your kicks hosting drunken get-togethers and enjoying the aromas of cheap wine doesn’t mean you can self-righteously dictate how others get theirs. Smokers don’t just smoke because they’re addicted, they smoke because there is nothing better than a cigarette during a break of ANY activity. Sorry your precious lungs can’t handle a little second hand smoke from meters away whilst you enjoy your $30 meal, I wonder how you survived the 80s and 90s. You inhale more carbon monoxide riding home along the highway than inhaling second hand smoke, get the f*** over it.

Is it the nicotine that make you so cranky?

I quit cold turkey more than two months ago, purely to begin a new gym schedule. Is it the internet that allows you anonymous randoms to rag on a huge number of patrons because your poor sense of smell is offended by burning plant matter whilst you eat charred, dead animal? Get off your high horse, don’t you have global warming or terrorists to stop or something?

fragge said :

Wow check out the vehement anti-smoker drivel in this thread, way to over-generalise more than 1 billion people as drug-addicted scum. Just because you get your kicks hosting drunken get-togethers and enjoying the aromas of cheap wine doesn’t mean you can self-righteously dictate how others get theirs. Smokers don’t just smoke because they’re addicted, they smoke because there is nothing better than a cigarette during a break of ANY activity. Sorry your precious lungs can’t handle a little second hand smoke from meters away whilst you enjoy your $30 meal, I wonder how you survived the 80s and 90s. You inhale more carbon monoxide riding home along the highway than inhaling second hand smoke, get the f*** over it.

Is it the nicotine that make you so cranky?

Wow check out the vehement anti-smoker drivel in this thread, way to over-generalise more than 1 billion people as drug-addicted scum. Just because you get your kicks hosting drunken get-togethers and enjoying the aromas of cheap wine doesn’t mean you can self-righteously dictate how others get theirs. Smokers don’t just smoke because they’re addicted, they smoke because there is nothing better than a cigarette during a break of ANY activity. Sorry your precious lungs can’t handle a little second hand smoke from meters away whilst you enjoy your $30 meal, I wonder how you survived the 80s and 90s. You inhale more carbon monoxide riding home along the highway than inhaling second hand smoke, get the f*** over it.

I’ve always wondered why people get glassed. Now I know.

I personally don’t like the smell of alcohol or people who drink. Guess what…I don’t go to pubs. Its full of drinkers. It would be much better to ban beer in pubs so I could eat a steak, but Id rather drinkers had somewhere to go. Somewhere to hang with mates where if some cock wants to shoot his mouth off uninvited, he’d cop a flogging.

Rossco Downunder said :

…you sound like you’d probably choose a). Good on you. You have distinguished yourself from the sort of behaviour (screwed priorities) that I’m talking about. You rate socialisation and other comforts in life (coffee for eg) higher than the smokes and forced to choose would choose wisely.

I probably wouldn’t choose a). Does that mean I’m a dirty filthy smoker who has no consideration for others?

Just because people don’t do what you want them to do, doesn’t mean they’re wrong. I still maintain that in your little sob story the problem primarily rests with you – if your friends choose to sit outside and smoke, it’s their choice. I’m sure there’s plenty of times that they’ve chosen to sit inside with you. The point is – they make the choice to sit outside and smoke, or inside and not smoke, just the same as you make the choice to sit outside with your friends, or inside out of the cold. As for the rest of the problems with your friends – dare I venture that you may be exaggerating a little to try and prove your point?

(Just quietly, if it was me, I’d be sitting outside hoping you’d get the shits and leave because you sound like a whiney little bitch 🙂 )

As a result of it no longer being politically acceptable for idiots to demonize segments of the population based on race, hate filled individuals who find themselves unable to improve their low self esteem by publicly expressing their hatred towards “niggers”, “faggots” aborigines etc instead are forced to make themselves feel superior by hating smokers or fat people.

Fat people and smokers are the new “niggers” if you will. Politically correct hate.

At least you can still “smoke” electronic cigarettes anywhere as they produce no smoke. Technically banned in Australia but what isn’t. Would piss off self righteous anti-smoking crusaders to no end as they are unable to bully you with their bullshit nannystate rules.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette

Deref said :

There aren’t many smokers left, and those that are tend to be hard-core and not particularly concerned about the rights of others. I’ve often been tempted to snap a photo of people at Canberra Hospital sitting directly under a No Smoking sign having a fag, but I’ve thought the better of it.

On my many visits to Calvary Maternity ward with Ma Bodine I always enjoy the inevitable push through the throng of smoking pregnant women and new mothers and fathers (with newborns in tow) hanging out at the front entrance to the maternity building right next to the ‘no smoking’ sign.

I quit smoking 16 years ago and it grieves me to see how much crap smokers get shoved on them. For a habit that is still legal, there are an awful lot of restrictions.

Many years ago, I was sitting by myself, having a smoke when a friend came up and sat with me. She then abused me for smoking near her. It seems to me that sometimes non-smokers go out of their way to create a problem.
I used to go to the pubs and clubs on occasion. The smoke didn’t bother me. Even now, 16 years later, I have no problem sitting with friends who are also smokers.

The fact that out door eating areas are now going to be smoke free annoys me. How about shifting your tables and chairs inside. As a pedestrian, I’m fed up with having to duck and weave the cafe latte sipping crowd.

Well, yes, coffee isn’t good for me either, but it also doesn’t harm other coffee drinkers. Unless my enjoyment of coffee revolved around scalding people in the face with it when they are being incredibly patronising as you have mentioned Rossco is.

It is true — I didn’t make that post so I would get a vigorous scratch on the chin for being such a nice smoker, it was to make sure you’re aware that your problem isn’t people addicted to nicotine, your problem is your friends are jerks, and you’re incredibly over sensitive and so passive aggressive that instead of saying “I’m freezing my balls off, let’s go inside and warm up for a bit” you chose to storm out with a flourish that would do The Bold & The Beautiful proud and then post about it on the internet.

Jeez Rossco, get over it! You had a crappy night out in the cold, we get it! It’s no reason to ban something just cause you were outnumbered by smokers on your night out. Get some new friends if it bothers you that much

And stop being so patronising, giving Hadley a little pat on the head for choosing your opinion of the “right” option. Funny how you mention having a coffee as being an acceptable alternative; you do realise caffeine is also an addictive stimulant that can be fatal? Stop whining…

lol well said on all counts, Hadley!

No, no, I’m massively addicted. But walking to the car park (like I have to do at my place of employment — fifteen metres away from the building) is not such a massive inconvenience that I will stop doing other things I enjoy, i.e. going to the pub. The Phoenix has had a smoking ban coupled with no beer garden for years, and I have no issue with putting my beer down, leaving, smoking, and coming back inside.

Hi Hadley,

You said “One of my favourite things to do is sit in a cafe with a coffee and a cigarette and if that upsets someone near me then I will move or put it out. This smoking ban, while making me sad, will also essentially be helping me to help myself, and stop smoking around other people full stop, which is a positive thing.”

Given the above then clearly you’re one of the better smokers who concede that the new measures might be for the good of yourself as well as others. Perhaps, you’re also less addicted than the two I’m talking about who will often light a cigarette off their prior one.

Comparing your post to dvaey’s at #19 you’d observe that you are also a thinking that faced with the following alternatives;
a) Give up the smokes so I can enjoy my club or;
b) Give up the club so I can enjoy my smokes.

…you sound like you’d probably choose a). Good on you. You have distinguished yourself from the sort of behaviour (screwed priorities) that I’m talking about. You rate socialisation and other comforts in life (coffee for eg) higher than the smokes and forced to choose would choose wisely. However, I think in my friends’ cases it is because they are so massively addicted that they think others are supposed to make allowances for something that compels them so strongly. (Apparently, -4c with a wind chill factor is not enough to break through – which I’m not sure fits with the egotist diagnosis. This is addiction).

Inhaling a bit of second had smoke is all part of the atmosphere of a club in my opinion, and in small doses it isn’t gonna kill you. Take all the smokers out of a pub and suddenly what you have is very banal place akin to somewhere like the Kennedy Room.. Do we want to see more good pubs like Filthy’s go the way of the Thylacine because of irrationally prohibitive legislation?

Maybe having a schooner and a dart on a Friday arvo is the one guilty pleasure someone has in their life? I think it’s cruel that we should deprive them especially when there’s plenty smoke-free places around to keep the sticklers happy.

P.S. I am a non-smoker.

Hi Rossco, I think you may have mistakenly been using the term ‘smokers’ instead of ‘some smokers I know’. Sometimes people with sit outside with me when I smoke and sometimes I will sit inside with people and not smoke. I cannot think of a single incident when I have left a conversation to go and have a cigarette and returned, only to demand, wild eyed, that everyone start the conversation again from the point that I left. That is not the behavior of someone addicted to nicotine, that is the behavior of a psychotic egotist, and while some people who smoke are probably psychotic egotists it is equally true that some people who do not smoke are also psychotic egotists. Maybe you just need friends who aren’t douchebags?

I think a lot of these discussions are more douchebag related than smoker related. I admit I am guilty of smoking in public places, and I also agree that “it’s might right to smoke” means nothing because as soon as I smoke in a public place with other people in it, smokers or non-smokers, I am choosing for them to smoke as well.

I hear these horror stories about people who have asked smokers to not smoke near them and the smoker has replied by brutally stabbing their head to death — who are these people?! Not many people I know who smoke are also liable to turn into the Ainslie Axe Murderer when they’re asked to smoke away from someone. Even in smoking areas I would move away from someone if my smoking was bothering them.

That said, again, I feel the onus should be on me, the smoker, to say do you mind if I smoke, rather than the person (smokee?) asking me to move, but yes, as Rossco says, the addiction runs deep and I will favour nicotine over hunting and gathering and making sure my presumably adult friends are warm enough at all times.

One of my favourite things to do is sit in a cafe with a coffee and a cigarette and if that upsets someone near me then I will move or put it out. This smoking ban, while making me sad, will also essentially be helping me to help myself, and stop smoking around other people full stop, which is a positive thing.

On other news: trevar, did some sort of evil gang of chain smoking assassins murder your entire clean-living ninja clan, leaving only you to avenge them?

Couldn’t come any sooner while there at it time for another tax rise, be a crack to see them t $25 -$30 a packet. And to hear the walking dead cry “cough” “cough” cry about it.

fgzk said :

Get your steak some where else. People drink and smoke at pubs. Try a Chardonnay at your local restaurant.

Get your cancer somewhere else, some of us are trying to eat.

dvaey said :

Waiting For Godot said :

I remember when smoking was banned at Woden Tradies and a few months later the legendary 83 Restaurant upstairs closed down.

I remember the old days when we’d often go to support the local club. Id often meet up with friends after work, we’d have a couple of beers, throw a few bucks in the pokies, a few bucks in the tin for the guy collecting for the salvos and maybe a quick meal. It was a regular event, probably a couple of times a week. These days, its easier to just grab a 6-pack and some steak and goto a mates house, at least we can smoke around the barbie while having a beer.

This is kind-of a case in point about what I’m talking about. This person was faced with the following alternatives;
a) Give up the smokes so I can enjoy my club or;
b) Give up the club so I can enjoy my smokes.

Clearly, s/he chose b).

But;
Amongst this social group are there non-smokers who gave up their club for no reason save perhaps continued social interaction with the smokers? Out of the smokers and non-smokers here who acted on the better motive?
Did this person lose a club or gain a backyard? I think the backyard was probably already there.
Is the smoking relegated to the backyard because it’s problematic even at home? Perhaps you could solve the problem by giving up?
Are there non-smokers freezing their anatomy off in your backyard when they could be inside your house or at a comfortable club but for YOUR smoking?
Did you notice conversations around your barbie improved because you didn’t keep wandering off for a fix 3 times an hour?
etc.

Really smokers why do you expect ANY ALLOWANCE WHATSOEVER because you’re to weak willed to give up. Why should club, pub and restaurant revenues to be spent on your dwindling, antisocial minority.

No, I’m merely pointing out that their behaviour is quite odd. Even if I was not even there… their addiction has meant that they will endure freezing cold and in the case of one of them give cigarettes preference over food in his budgeting. Even the smokers seem to fail to realise they are missing half of the conversations whilst they’re outside. If their non-smoking friend follows it’s not because they need to be out there – it is the smoker’s need.

They will even say they were at the club when they actually sat outside it. Is this some technicality? If they smoked in the carpark would they think they were “at the club”?

(Maybe this is like they think they’re “at work” when they’re outside having a smoke)?

That I was meant to fall in line with this irrational (read: addiction motivated) behaviour just shows the selfish nature of the addicted.

So, basic instincts like “seek shelter” & “seek food” play second place to the nicotine. Conversation (one of the other reasons to be at a club) also takes second place to nicotine. They just wander in and out constantly taking the conversation back to where it was when you went out to have your “fix” giving the non-smokers who remained a conversation like it was “Groundhog Day”. Smokers: When you return to the table are you really oblivious to the people looking exasperated when the conversation has to be reset for your benefit?

My previous post was meant to be all about the totally screwed-up priorities of these smokers. Nicotine first, everything else is further down the list. Food, shelter, friendship, health, etc… are not further up the priorities than the mighty nicotine.

I had the choice to follow them or not (as madame workalot points out I was not tied to the chair) these smokers also have the choice to give it up. Then we can all sit *IN* the club and have conversations that are not discontinuous.

And for the record… I did eventually get sufficiently pissed-off and depart. Point is: But for THEIR addiction (selfish in-extreme) we could have sat *IN* the club. Why was I meant to have to make choices based on someone else’s addiction? How about they make a choice about their addiction – and defeat it!

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

In a perfect world self-righteous non-smokers would be banned from all licenced venues.

…allowing self-righteous smokers to cough and splutter their way to a pyrrhic victory!

We experienced the change over of smoking laws in outdoor areas when living in QLD.

It worked well.

No smoking in outdoor areas of cafes, restaurants, sporting events basically everywhere that was not a private residence. It was GREAT.

We lived in FNQ for two years, and rediscovered the ‘joys’ of trying to have a meal or coffee in an outdoor area with smokers upon our return to Canberra. We had not been in the vicinity of ciggy smoke for two years. Gosh it stinks here, particularly in areas where a lot of cafes have outdoor seating, thinking Guses and Essen etc. Poor old Garema place is a haze during peak lunch time periods.

Food and cigarette smoke do not go together, bring on the rules I say.

Canberra was one of the first places to ban smoking inside these places I think? It seems we are ‘draggin’ the ‘chain’ on this issue.

Rossco Downunder said :

I was recently in a situation with two friends of mine whose smoking led to a less-than-pleasant evening. Out of the 3 of us I was the only non-smoker… so in the minority. My 2 mates decided we should plant ourselves outside for the duration of the evening.

But, it was around -4c outside and windy to boot!

So, it was my mates’ concept that I should die of exposure whilst they raced to see whether it was exposure or cancer that got them first. .

Er, am I missing something here? Did your mates tie you to a chair? If you were so worried about getting cold, why didn’t you sit inside while your mates exercised their right of choice, and sat outside?

Oh, that’s right – easier to just blame those filthy smokers for all your ails.

Rossco Downunder said :

I was recently in a situation with two friends of mine whose smoking led to a less-than-pleasant evening.
Really, the smokers need to think through whether they really want to sit at a club and relax with friends OR do you want miss much of the conversation commuting between your friends and the club’s leper colony outside. Who really goes to a club to sit outside it? Might as well sit in your own backyard and freeze.

So you want to make smoking illegal so you can force your friends to do what you want to do to ensure you enjoy your own night out? It’s hardly a “suspension of manners” if they’ve gone outside away from everyone else to smoke. Sounds like your friends were happily sitting outside the club having their conversation…you’re the one who was whinging

What a strange post…

fgzk said :

Get your steak some where else. People drink and smoke at pubs. Try a Chardonnay at your local restaurant.

discounting the sarcasm intended, to respond to the actual point (which i have heard made in earnest, hence the response – not directed at you, fgzk) but ‘go get your lung cancer somewhere else.’

if an establishment wants people to eat then the patron should be able to expect an environment where s/he isn’t sharing the food and beverage with someone else’s smoke, that has both been inside their bodies [eughw!] and is in itself toxic.

I’d be interested to see what would happen if the ACT government gave clubs in Canberra the option of allowing smoking inside it they got rid of all the pokies.

dvaey said :

Then they brought no-smoking rules in. Im struggling to remember 5 times that Ive been to my local club since these changes, other than once for a christmas raffle. While Im sure that some non-smokers might have come in to take the place of smokers, one really has to wonder how much the community has lost from the money smokers put into the local clubs?

It turns out annual revenue in the hospitality industry has not fallen but actually increased (not more, nothing over-the-top, just a steady, regular increase like before) since these anti-smoking laws have passed.

I’m not sure anyone noticed the drop in smoker-revenue you describe or maybe smokers have just accepted the changes and smoked where they are asked to.

Or maybe the number of smokers overall has declined at the same rate that smokers like yourself have decided to stay at home.

Your change in drinking/smoking habits might instead correlate more with a change in age?

I’ve heard your arguement before from the same crusty old barflies at the end of the bar: “well, when I can’t smoke while perched on this bar inside I’ll never come out again and just you wait, you’ll see, no one will come out after these new laws are passed”

We never missed them, they either came back or were replaced by people who complied with the new legislation. And business kept on truckin’

Waiting For Godot said :

I remember when smoking was banned at Woden Tradies and a few months later the legendary 83 Restaurant upstairs closed down.

I remember the old days when we’d often go to support the local club. Id often meet up with friends after work, we’d have a couple of beers, throw a few bucks in the pokies, a few bucks in the tin for the guy collecting for the salvos and maybe a quick meal. It was a regular event, probably a couple of times a week. These days, its easier to just grab a 6-pack and some steak and goto a mates house, at least we can smoke around the barbie while having a beer.

Then they brought no-smoking rules in. Im struggling to remember 5 times that Ive been to my local club since these changes, other than once for a christmas raffle. While Im sure that some non-smokers might have come in to take the place of smokers, one really has to wonder how much the community has lost from the money smokers put into the local clubs? Has the ACT government increased sponsorship of junior sports such as the AFL Canberra junior league or the Vikings? These clubs that arent getting multi-million dollar grants from the government (like the raiders and brumbies get), depend on money from club patrons.

On an unrelated note, the 83 restaurant closed down, so the tradies could turn its space into a gambling hall, presumably in part to make up for the lost revenue of the smokers no longer sitting at the pokies pumping them full of money.

Deref said :

I respect people’s right to smoke providing it doesn’t inconvenience other people. The only answer I can think of is fully-enclosed smoking rooms in pubs with extractor fans venting to the roof and producing negative pressure inside the room.

Why would they need an extractor vent? These rooms should be completely sealed from the outside world after the smoker has entered. And when they’ve either suffocated or died of lung cancer, a trap door could be released underneath that delivers their worthless corpses to the House of Representatives, where they won’t be noticed.

But seriously, it is adequate to simply expect that the Designated Outdoor Fag Area should be removed some distance from the Designated Outdoor Eating Area, and that the approval process should prevent them being too close.

I noticed in Brisbane a bar/café had a two lines on the ground. One to inform people of the area for DOSA, then having a 1.5 meter gap before the other line for the non-smoking area. You might be able to smell it within the non-smoking area but at least you are not coping a face full of smoke.

I was recently in a situation with two friends of mine whose smoking led to a less-than-pleasant evening. Out of the 3 of us I was the only non-smoker… so in the minority. My 2 mates decided we should plant ourselves outside for the duration of the evening.

But, it was around -4c outside and windy to boot!

So, it was my mates’ concept that I should die of exposure whilst they raced to see whether it was exposure or cancer that got them first. So, you begin to note that smoking apparently causes it’s enthralled victim to ignore that part their nicotine-soaked brain that controls the “Get out of the cold you idiot” centre. Suspend good manners and make your non-smoking mate (who doesn’t need to sit out with the lepers) die of exposure. This sort of suspension of manners also seems to occur with the other brain functions and apparently allows a smoker who would not drop the wrapper on their sandwich to be able to litter freely with anything cigarette related (Especially, the butts).

So, the sooner cigarettes are just plain illegal the better! Nothing short of that will stop these die-hards. (One of the aforementioned ones is long-term unemployed and budgets more for cigarettes than he does for food – another example where nicotine apparently causes the brain to malfunction).

Really, the smokers need to think through whether they really want to sit at a club and relax with friends OR do you want miss much of the conversation commuting between your friends and the club’s leper colony outside. Who really goes to a club to sit outside it? Might as well sit in your own backyard and freeze.

sirocco said :

…people who, during the day are no doubt intelligent public servants or business folk, but with more a couple in them become senseless, stupid, argumentative fools.

You know, I have my doubts.

I suspect that the people who become senseless, stupid, argumentative fools when they’re drunk are senseless, stupid, argumentative fools when they’re sober. I think it’s a complete furphy that alcohol somehow converts nice people into arseholes.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

In a perfect world self-righteous non-smokers would be banned from all licenced venues.

In a perfect world all self-righteous people would be banned from going anywhere near anyone else. I can’t stand those self-righteous jerks!!!

Sirocco – sorry bout that! You’ll be glad to know I’ve learned not to climb on tables while smoking topless and happy to keep the glassware inside the pub where it belongs! Goodness it’s just like being a teacher and telling everyone all day to tuck in their shirts and pick up their litter!!!!

I worked as a non-smoking bartender/doorman/manager in several of Canberra’s nightspots. I saw the implementation of several anti-smoking laws come into effect while working to pay for uni (I even remember the first one: 50% of the indoor area had to be smoke free. Imagine how difficult it was to make that work?!). I gather that this legislation has a lot to do with protecting staff members who have to work long, late hours in this smoky environment; so it makes sense that there will be no-smoking wherever there is outdoor table service.

Another point raised by OP: “As for the management, they’re hardly going to tell a drunk smoker to stop smoking? Or will they?”

Yep: if they are a good manager or a manager who wants to keep their licence they will. As a doorman in Kingston I was constantly, politely asking drunks to not smoke inside, asking them to sit down at a seat while drinking outside (a condition of outdoor licenced areas at all venues), not to smoke within a couple of metres of the entrance, not to take glassware away from the pub, and other requests like “put your shirt back on”, “please don’t stand of the table, you animal” asking these things over and over and over and over ad nauseum and to the same drinkers over and over and over and over all night. It became terribly boring to ask people who, during the day are no doubt intelligent public servants or business folk, but with more a couple in them become senseless, stupid, argumentative fools. But you continue to ask them cos at any one time ACT Liquor Licencing might wander around the corner with a camera.

Also, if a patron asks another patron to put out the cigarette they have to be polite as hell and hope that the other patron is kind enough to comply. It takes a bit of working up to do it, it feels awkward and if it doesn’t work, as OP pointed out, you might suddenly find yourself wearing a glass attachment to your forehead. Whereas a publican/manager/doorman can ask politely once, then ask again reminding the patron of the laws, and then boot the fucker out when he/she refuses to comply. Then the staff member only has to listen to a bit of: “Ooh, aren’t you a tough guy? Making up all the rules? Power-freak! Stupid bouncer, no wonder this is the only job you can get.” etc.

Hmmm, I’m so glad I don’t work in hospitality anymore 🙂

OP – you should always feel you can ask the staff to ask the offending smoker to put out their ciggie – it’s a terrible shame if the venues you patronise won’t. Most of the staff I worked with didn’t give two hoots about “smokers’ rights”.

I too am a considerate smoker. If I’m smoking in a designated smoking area and haven’t noticed that a family or non smoker has sat near me with a food order on it’s way, I’ll either butt out or walk away to finish if requested (or when I see them, whichever comes first).

I actually get quite angry with some smokers myself, usually it’s the ones that drop their butt on the ground – even worse when they do that within three feet of a bin. I saw someone smoking in their car the other day with two young children in the back, driver’s window only open a crack. If they hadn’t left my line of site as quickly as they did, I would have noted their number plate and dobbed them in.

I enjoy smoking, but will not do it around children or when people are eating. I even smoke outside my own house when we have non-smoking guests over.

Like Hells Bells said, we’re not all inconsiderate thugs (even if some of us might look the part).

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

In a perfect world self-righteous non-smokers would be banned from all licenced venues.

Ooh I like this game. How about “and smokers wouldn’t be offered free healthcare?”

Right after the overweight…….

I would also try to accomodate you if you asked me to stop smoking near you, we’re not all inconsiderate of others.

I usually take myself for a little walk away from others if they’re not smoking anyhow. How far depends on the situation.

Eyeball In A Quart Jar Of Snot said :

In a perfect world self-righteous non-smokers would be banned from all licenced venues.

Ooh I like this game. How about “and smokers wouldn’t be offered free healthcare?”

Deref said :

There aren’t many smokers left, and those that are tend to be hard-core and not particularly concerned about the rights of others.

Are you suggesting that smokers are a dying breed?

I quite like how a lot of the clubs I go to have little side outdoor rooms, similar to balconies of all sizes with some bar tables/stools or whatever. No one would eat there, it lacks that atmosphere, but for a smoker, it does the trick. I’m glad it’s away from all eating and do hope they give non-smokers a nice place to sit out in the sun with fresh air because one day again I will be one too and appreciate it.

In a perfect world self-righteous non-smokers would be banned from all licenced venues.

I guess establishments that want to have both – out-door smoking and out-door dining will just have to separate the two. Naturally some establishments will be better able to cope with that than others, just by the design or nature of the buildings and their access to smoking areas.

My inclination would be to see how it might work, rather than to argue from the get-go that it couldn’t work.

Deref is right though. There really aren’t that many smokers left so in two or five or ten years from know it will probably be a distant memory – which I will kind of regret actually. I had always planned to take up a pipe when I was an old man.

Get your steak some where else. People drink and smoke at pubs. Try a Chardonnay at your local restaurant.

I’m a smoker, and unless I’m asked to put my cigarette out in a dedicated smoking area (yes, it has happened), I’ll always either butt out or move away. I will say, however, that the way some people ask is quite rude and disrespectful. It doesn’t hurt you to be polite, you know…

I remember when smoking was banned at Woden Tradies and a few months later the legendary 83 Restaurant upstairs closed down.

Just an observation …

There aren’t many smokers left, and those that are tend to be hard-core and not particularly concerned about the rights of others. I’ve often been tempted to snap a photo of people at Canberra Hospital sitting directly under a No Smoking sign having a fag, but I’ve thought the better of it.

Appealing to their social conscience is appealing to something that most of them don’t have.

I respect people’s right to smoke providing it doesn’t inconvenience other people. The only answer I can think of is fully-enclosed smoking rooms in pubs with extractor fans venting to the roof and producing negative pressure inside the room.