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New Protected Cycle Lanes for Civic?

By Horrid 12 November 2009 49

The Canberra Times reports that separated ‘Copenhagen’ style cycle lanes are being considered for Civic, along with a ‘shared space’ zone on Bunda St where all users have equal rights. Pedal Power seem to think it’s a good thing and a bit of digging on their website soon revealed where the idea came from- looks like part of some kind of orbital cycling route around the whole of Civic.

Personally I reckon it’s a great idea- you could ride round this cycleway thing in quarter of the time it would take in a car in rush hour, methinks. And get to just about anywhere in Civic you needed to go on it. And give the people screaming about cyclists in their way exactly what they want- the cyclists off to one side somewhere. Now me, I don’t mind riding in Civic now, but I’ll bet that the shopper set, trendy uni students, office workers and the like would all go for this and get on their bikes to ride it.

So hopefully it’s something that Canberrans will get behind and support. I fear not all will- nothing brings out the hatemongers and rednecks faster than the prospect of taxes that cyclists pay being spent on cycling, instead of yet another freeway or carpark. But there is probably a lot more people who reckon if it works in Copenhagen, or Melbourne like the CT story says, then it’ll probably work in Canberra as well.


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New Protected Cycle Lanes for Civic?
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Deckard 8:39 pm 15 Nov 09

Thumper said :

I’m sure it does. But probably not quite as much as being flattened by a car.

It also hurts when your car meets a truck, like 4 kids found out this morning near Yass, but that doesn’t stop anyone driving.

Thumper 8:29 pm 15 Nov 09

It hurts a lot when you headon another cyclist.

I’m sure it does. But probably not quite as much as being flattened by a car.

toriness 5:01 pm 15 Nov 09

as someone with both a car and a bike, i pay the car taxes a lot of you are talking about, as well as a suite of other taxes which doubtless get used on road infrastructure – the ‘slap a tax on cyclists’ argument really does get a bit old and we ALL know (or we should) that it’s not the case that every dollar you pay in car-related taxes get spent on roads, or your property rates on local (ie your postcode) infrastructure etc etc. not to mention some of us pay craploads more tax than others but we all drive or cycle on the same roads.

surely people who drive cars can see the benefits in encouraging people to cycle. you can’t? here’s a few simple benefits off the top of my head. more people cycling means less other cars on the road. this means those who have no choice (or who perceive they have no choice) about driving have less cars on the road to content with – you get to your destination faster, safer and easier. it means less wear and tear on our roads so lower cost of upkeep ie less taxes (or less increase in them)! it means less pollution – making our local and greater environment better which leads to healthier happier populations.

it’s really not rocket science.

Aeek 4:34 pm 14 Nov 09

annoyedcan said :

Why do cyclist’s want to ride on roads. Paths are a better opion. It hurts alot when you get hit by a car.

It hurts a lot when you headon another cyclist. The paths are dangerous this time of year.
Too many people think that “the paths are safe” so they don’t need to stay on the left for blind corners.
Monday, as I turned off the path I saw ambos holding up a saline bag with bikes in the grass by the blind corner.

vg 1:08 pm 14 Nov 09

dvaey said :

So, will cyclists be paying extra for this infrastructure that they have exclusive access to? Will car drivers get a discount because the available road is being reduced? Will roads such as Northborne lose a road-lane or will they lose pedestrian area? You cant add a cycle lane without sacrificing one of those two. Cyclists are ‘wheeled pedestrians’ and should be given the same allocation and rule-set as pedestrians, imho.

I’m willing to guarantee that I pay more tax than you and I ride, so I guess I’m already paying ‘extra’.

You might also need a refresher on definitions of parts of the road rules as well.

phototext 9:45 am 14 Nov 09

“Why do cyclist’s want to ride on roads. Paths are a better opion. It hurts alot when you get hit by a car.”

Not all do but the law is the law.

annoyedcan 11:10 pm 13 Nov 09

Why do cyclist’s want to ride on roads. Paths are a better opion. It hurts alot when you get hit by a car.

Aeek 10:07 pm 13 Nov 09

I’m quite comfortable cycling along Bunda St as it is, the cars slow me down as much as I slow them down – and they keep the pedestrians away.

OYM 5:21 pm 13 Nov 09

Bit late into this discussion, but the protected cycle lanes are a great idea. I’ve seen how well this works in cities like Copenhagen and Amsterdam. Canberra is an awesome city to cycle around in and everything done to encourage cycling is a positive step for our city.

Grrrr 12:37 pm 13 Nov 09

James-T-Kirk said :

I don’t have to register my trailbike I hoon up and down the reserve on.

AFAIK, if you’re unregistered and unlicensed, your riding venues consist of the ACT MCC track in Fairbairn or one of the other private tracks around.

On public property your trailbike is only allowed on roads – dirt or paved – and like any road you have to be registered to use them. There are no legal off-road trails in the ACT to the best of my knowledge.

MTBs are allowed on formed tracks in Canberra Nature Parks, as well as the MTB-legal areas (Kowen, Stromlo, Majura etc.)

Regarding the shared use road – traffic flows? Close it permanently and get the cafes like Gus’/Essen and restaurants like Sammy’s spread right out there. That’d be great. That little stretch of road accomodates bugger-all parking and traffic and trying to get through there at busy times is just as slow as going around Cooyong.

Not sure what you on about regarding the 90 degree thing, as the only cars at 90 degrees in the PDF are in the artist’s drawing of Bendigo.

The roads chosen for the dedicated bike lane seem like good choices to me.

Pedal Power’s members’ taxes will pay for the cost just fine, methinks. If they fall a little short, perhaps Mr Plod can hang out in Civic and fine all the bogans riding bikes without helmets. Then move onto stupid drivers, who do things like blocking intersections by entering them without being able to exit them. That’d raise revenues pretty quickly, and sort out some of those traffic flow issues you’re on about.

Quite clearly, noone is being punished enough…

Jim Jones 12:03 pm 13 Nov 09

nexus6 said :

actually i think bike riders should be fined for breaking the law.

There’s nothing magical about not being registered – if you break the law, you can still be brought to account.

By the same token, I regularly see registered motorists breaking the law, and they go unpunished.

Registration has absolutely nothing to do with law-breaking and ‘being held to account’. This argument is a red herring.

James-T-Kirk 11:05 am 13 Nov 09

The proposal says Pedal Power has 3000 members – Share the cost among them.

Oh – And in the stakeholder/issues list – it only mentions positives. Go out and canvas the actual stakeholders, and publish the negatives. Who gives two hoots that the NRMA is happy about the street becoming one way – what about the commuters?

Also, is the parking in one of the pictures actually 90 degree. That will stop traffic as soon as somebody goes to find a parking spot – this plan is a plan built by people with no understanding for traffic flows.

Apart from that, I *love* the idea…..

James-T-Kirk 11:02 am 13 Nov 09

nexus6 said :

” should i register my MTB which has never been ridden on public roads?

Of course not – I don’t have to register my trailbike I hoon up and down the reserve on.

J Dawg 11:01 am 13 Nov 09

nexus6 said :

actually i think bike riders should be fined for breaking the law. I dont think we shoudl pay rego. should i register my MTB which has never been ridden on public roads? I also think cyclists should be liable for any damage or injury they cause. My comments earlier were more directed at the frustration that drivers feel when they see a cyclist break the law.

I see your point, I agree with most things you say. Although as others have said, a cyclist can hide behind anonymity. And a rego system similar to motorcycles makes sense – don’t register it if you don’t ride it on the road. In addition to accountability, the gov’t could spend a hell of a lot more money making dedicated cycle lanes to make cycling even safer. From my point of view, it’s the poor actions of a few cyclists which ruin it for the rest of you and give motorists a bad impression of all of you.

J Dawg 10:48 am 13 Nov 09

Horrid said :

…turning it into an unrelated discussion on road rules, full of the usual fallacies of logic, sweeping generalisations, double standards and outright lies that they use in place of actual arguments.

Please don’t act all ‘holier-than-thou’, for someone who criticises all of these negative traits you sure do use a lot of them. Instead of complaining about people highjacking your thread why don’t you break the cycle and comment on the many positive and legit criticisms (i.e. changing rooms and showers in office buildings)?

nexus6 10:42 am 13 Nov 09

“Using that logic do you also support no rego, no fines and no liability for motorcycle and scooter riders?”

actually i think bike riders should be fined for breaking the law. I dont think we shoudl pay rego. should i register my MTB which has never been ridden on public roads? I also think cyclists should be liable for any damage or injury they cause. My comments earlier were more directed at the frustration that drivers feel when they see a cyclist break the law. “why so angry?” its not uncommon to have drivers intentionaly swerve close to you, beep their horn for no reason, yell abuse or throw things at you when you cycle on the road. basically WTF is wrong with car drivers that they get SO angry at cyclists who are only risking their own lives when they do something stupid? Maybe its the frustration of being stuck inside your metal box, breathing fumes and listening to crap commercial radio that makes you so angry? I dont know but i do my absolute best not to ride on roads at all these days, hence my calling for more and better designed paths. most of the paths are good, but there could still be more of them, and better design is somthing you should always aim for.

as fo cyclists having no liability, is this really tru? if i ride my bike into someones car or a person on the footpath are there really no penalties?

dvaey 10:36 am 13 Nov 09

Deckard said :

Dvaey
.. You always need to hijack any thread to do with cycling to rabbit on about rego for cyclists. Give it a rest will you. It ain’t going to happen so deal with it!

I never said anything about paying rego, other than a small joke about drivers maybe paying less because of less roads to use.

Deckard said :

When drivers pay for 100% of the road they’re driving on, then maybe you’d have a point.

Drivers dont pay 100% for the road they drive on at all, but they do pay 100% for their RIGHT to drive on the road. If I try to use the road without a licence and without paying my dues for rego, road safety, and insurance or without displaying proper identification, Im liable for an offence, however once again that is an argument for another thread.

I have no problem with bike paths or cyclists in general, infact I believe they are a part of what makes canberra a more attractive place to live, with the ability to cycle along our many paths at your own pace while enjoying the best nature has to offer, which is different to how I view roadways and on-road cycleways where as I was always taught, being able to use the public road isnt a right its a privilege.

Postalgeek 10:32 am 13 Nov 09

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

I find it interesting that cyclists seem free to criticise and be unhappy about their cycle paths, but car drivers just have to suck up whatever is thrown at them.

Yeah right. So the NRMA has never lobbied in its entire existence?

Horrid 10:20 am 13 Nov 09

As I predicted in my op, “nothing brings out the hatemongers and rednecks faster than the prospect of taxes that cyclists pay being spent on cycling”.

It was of course, too much to hope for that a sensible discussion on possible alternative cycling methods would not be almost immediately hijacked by anti cycling bigots (who presumably are too lazy or stupid to start their own thread), turning it into an unrelated discussion on road rules, full of the usual fallacies of logic, sweeping generalisations, double standards and outright lies that they use in place of actual arguments.

This just makes me like the idea of a redneck and bigot-free zone in these special cycleway lanes even more than I did before.

Having a small piece of cycberspace on Riot Act taken over by these morons is slightly annoying to me and other cyclists. But that’s fine- the consolation is going to be watching them work themselves into a lather of hatred and fury, when these special cycle lanes get built on physical space that they think belongs to themselves only, and being completely unable to stop it. That will be so much fun that any improvement that makes cycling easier will be almost a bonus. I might even join Pedal Power to help them achieve it.

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