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New visions for Bunda Street

johnboy 16 January 2013 67

bunda street plans

Shane Rattenbury has announced the release of concept plans for Bunda Street:

The redesign of Bunda Street will form part of the Civic Cycle Loop project, a 3.2 kilometre path that loops around the City and connects to existing paths that lead into the City. The ACT Government has so far invested $6 million for the design and construction of the Civic Cycle Loop.

“These are exciting new designs for Canberra’s city centre that we hope will encourage pedestrians and cyclists, improve safety, and also create a vibrant and user-friendly urban space,” said Mr Rattenbury.

“The Bunda Street section of the Civic Cycle Loop, between Mort and Akuna Streets, requires special design consideration as it has high pedestrian and traffic volumes and a busy retail and hospitality environment.

“We engaged three separate, highly qualified and experienced urban design consultants to participate in a design competition for the Bunda Street section of the loop. Each consultant has presented their best design proposal for the space. Each design has a unique proposal to manage Bunda Street as a high-use space for motorists, pedestrians and cyclists.

“We really encourage the community to get involved and provide feedback on which design they think would work best for the Bunda Street section of the cycle loop.

You can take a look on the time to talk site.


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67 Responses to New visions for Bunda Street
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miz 9:27 pm 17 Jan 13

How about a two year moratorium on consultant’s reports and use the money saved to actually improve services. I am so fed up with pollies trying to ‘improve’ what is already pretty good, and messing it up, at massive cost.

dungfungus 9:12 pm 17 Jan 13

cranky said :

Ah, Youth.

Back in the good old days, it was behoven of all young lads to do laps of Civic (in their hotties) at lunchtime, with the primary aim to arrive at the pedestrian crossing outside the Monaro Mall at the same time as tasty crumpet crossed. Traffic slowed to a stand still. But what an appreciative audience for the newly invented miniskirt.

O/T but I read somewhere that Seymour Michael, the fashion designer who invented the mini-skirt, died recently.

el 9:02 pm 17 Jan 13

dungfungus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

dungfungus said :

I visited Seville in Spain a few years ago (about the same time the Stanhopes were doing the Camino de Santiago on bicycles). Before getting off the tourist bus at the hotel in the centre of Seville, the tour guide warned all that bicycle lanes had taken over the city and they travelled at very high speed with no intention of warning (the city noise drowns out everything) or giving way to pedestrians. I witnessed several collisions between pedistrians and gung-ho bike riders while I was there and had a couple of near misses myself. It is nice to create a shared zone on paper but the reality is that pedestians and bikes don’t mix well. Apossible solution is to create speed bumps in bicycle lanes (I am serious).

Some sources?

What do you mean, “some sources”?
Be specific please. Would you like sworn affidavits from me and my wife and the other people on the bus?

Don’t you know anything?

He wants screenshots.

From Spain.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 9:01 pm 17 Jan 13

dungfungus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

dungfungus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

I always find it lol when somebody points good examples of good things happening in Europe and how it should work here then some lack wit jumps straight in with *WELL IS EUROPE HERE? NO WE DON’T WANT TO CHANGE TO THAT! F@$$&! STRAYA C$&@*

I visited Seville in Spain a few years ago (about the same time the Stanhopes were doing the Camino de Santiago on bicycles). Before getting off the tourist bus at the hotel in the centre of Seville, the tour guide warned all that bicycle lanes had taken over the city and they travelled at very high speed with no intention of warning (the city noise drowns out everything) or giving way to pedestrians. I witnessed several collisions between pedistrians and gung-ho bike riders while I was there and had a couple of near misses myself. It is nice to create a shared zone on paper but the reality is that pedestians and bikes don’t mix well. Apossible solution is to create speed bumps in bicycle lanes (I am serious).

Some sources?

What do you mean, “some sources”?
Be specific please. Would you like sworn affidavits from me and my wife and the other people on the bus?

Maybe some non anecdotal story?

cranky 8:56 pm 17 Jan 13

Ah, Youth.

Back in the good old days, it was behoven of all young lads to do laps of Civic (in their hotties) at lunchtime, with the primary aim to arrive at the pedestrian crossing outside the Monaro Mall at the same time as tasty crumpet crossed. Traffic slowed to a stand still. But what an appreciative audience for the newly invented miniskirt.

dungfungus 7:52 pm 17 Jan 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

dungfungus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

I always find it lol when somebody points good examples of good things happening in Europe and how it should work here then some lack wit jumps straight in with *WELL IS EUROPE HERE? NO WE DON’T WANT TO CHANGE TO THAT! F@$$&! STRAYA C$&@*

I visited Seville in Spain a few years ago (about the same time the Stanhopes were doing the Camino de Santiago on bicycles). Before getting off the tourist bus at the hotel in the centre of Seville, the tour guide warned all that bicycle lanes had taken over the city and they travelled at very high speed with no intention of warning (the city noise drowns out everything) or giving way to pedestrians. I witnessed several collisions between pedistrians and gung-ho bike riders while I was there and had a couple of near misses myself. It is nice to create a shared zone on paper but the reality is that pedestians and bikes don’t mix well. Apossible solution is to create speed bumps in bicycle lanes (I am serious).

Some sources?

What do you mean, “some sources”?
Be specific please. Would you like sworn affidavits from me and my wife and the other people on the bus?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 7:02 pm 17 Jan 13

dungfungus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

I always find it lol when somebody points good examples of good things happening in Europe and how it should work here then some lack wit jumps straight in with *WELL IS EUROPE HERE? NO WE DON’T WANT TO CHANGE TO THAT! F@$$&! STRAYA C$&@*

I visited Seville in Spain a few years ago (about the same time the Stanhopes were doing the Camino de Santiago on bicycles). Before getting off the tourist bus at the hotel in the centre of Seville, the tour guide warned all that bicycle lanes had taken over the city and they travelled at very high speed with no intention of warning (the city noise drowns out everything) or giving way to pedestrians. I witnessed several collisions between pedistrians and gung-ho bike riders while I was there and had a couple of near misses myself. It is nice to create a shared zone on paper but the reality is that pedestians and bikes don’t mix well. Apossible solution is to create speed bumps in bicycle lanes (I am serious).

Some sources?

dungfungus 6:39 pm 17 Jan 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

I always find it lol when somebody points good examples of good things happening in Europe and how it should work here then some lack wit jumps straight in with *WELL IS EUROPE HERE? NO WE DON’T WANT TO CHANGE TO THAT! F@$$&! STRAYA C$&@*

I visited Seville in Spain a few years ago (about the same time the Stanhopes were doing the Camino de Santiago on bicycles). Before getting off the tourist bus at the hotel in the centre of Seville, the tour guide warned all that bicycle lanes had taken over the city and they travelled at very high speed with no intention of warning (the city noise drowns out everything) or giving way to pedestrians. I witnessed several collisions between pedistrians and gung-ho bike riders while I was there and had a couple of near misses myself. It is nice to create a shared zone on paper but the reality is that pedestians and bikes don’t mix well. Apossible solution is to create speed bumps in bicycle lanes (I am serious).

davo101 4:20 pm 17 Jan 13

Leon said :

New cycling facilities that are proposed along Cooyong and Corranderrk St will allow much of the cycling through-traffic to bypass Civic, making any cycling facilities on Bunda St largely redundant.

A path on Cooyong and Corranderrk won’t connect with the cycle path coming over the Commonwealth bridge and also provides no facilities to get to anywhere in Civic.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 3:50 pm 17 Jan 13

I always find it lol when somebody points good examples of good things happening in Europe and how it should work here then some lack wit jumps straight in with *WELL IS EUROPE HERE? NO WE DON’T WANT TO CHANGE TO THAT! F@$$&! STRAYA C$&@*

Leon 3:06 pm 17 Jan 13

patrick_keogh said :

the Civic Cycle loop … will provide a safe and convenient route for cyclists from the pedestrian footbridge over Parkes Way at Commonwealth Park … gathering up those who currently ride down Constitution and from Reid and bring them to one end of Bunda Street. The other part of the loop collects cyclists from the Dickson/O’Connor cycle path, ANU and the other pedestrian bridge over Parkes Way at New Acton and deposits them at the other end of Bunda Street. Collectively this is approximately 40% of the total cycle traffic travelling through Civic.

If the Civic Cycle Loop does not make provision for these cyclists to ride safely along Bunda Street (the middle of the loop) then they will continue to rat-run through City Walk, Garema Place, Petrie Plaza etc. and along the footpaths.

If your figures are based on Pedal Power’s annual cordon count, then you probably mean “40% of the total cycling traffic INTO Civic.”

New cycling facilities that are proposed along Cooyong and Corranderrk St will allow much of the cycing through-traffic to bypass Civic, making any cycling facilities on Bunda St largely redundant.

Keijidosha 2:54 pm 17 Jan 13

patrick_keogh said :

If the Civic Cycle Loop does not make provision for these cyclists to ride safely along Bunda Street (the middle of the loop) then they will continue to rat-run through City Walk, Garema Place, Petrie Plaza etc. and along the footpaths.

The pedestrian areas of Civic currently present little impediment to cyclists, and often provide the shortest route from A to B. It would have been more cost effective to simply mark a cycle lane in these areas to create an identifiable separation between pedestrians and cyclists.

The cycle loop is an expensive solution in search of a problem. Unless bicycles are banned from City Walk (etc) I will continue to ‘rat-run’.

patrick_keogh 1:43 pm 17 Jan 13

Leon said :

Is Bunda St an important cycling ROUTE?

It’s obviously an important cycling DESTINATION, as demonstrated by the usually-full bike parking in the adjoining streets.

Some time ago I surveyed traffic on Bunda St. 88% of the on-road traffic was pedestrians crossing from one side to the other. 11% was motor vehicles driving along Bunds St. Bicycle made up only 1% of the on-road traffic.

Leon this is disingenuous or at least forgetful. Just to remind you, the Civic Cycle loop which is under construction will provide a safe and convenient route for cyclists from the pedestrian footbridge over Parkes Way at Commonwealth Park (near the swimming pool), gathering up those who currently ride down Constitution and from Reid and bring them to one end of Bunda Street. The other part of the loop collects cyclists from the Dickson/O’Connor cycle path, ANU and the other pedestrian bridge over Parkes Way at New Acton and deposits them at the other end of Bunda Street. Collectively this is approximately 40% of the total cycle traffic travelling through Civic.

If the Civic Cycle Loop does not make provision for these cyclists to ride safely along Bunda Street (the middle of the loop) then they will continue to rat-run through City Walk, Garema Place, Petrie Plaza etc. and along the footpaths.

I would have thought that you of all people would be in favour of reducing the bicycle traffic in these primarily pedestrian areas.

dtc 9:55 am 17 Jan 13

johnboy said :

As a cyclist i’ve got to say that given a choice between a bunda street cycle lane or the who,e width of City Walk I’m going to take City Walk every time.

Cycling access to civic is hampered by Northbourne and Barry drive, not anything on Bunda.

I’m not so sure about this. Say that you (like me) are riding into Civic from O’Connor. You go up the cycle path to Barry Drive/Marcus Clarke St. Now at the moment you meander all over the place, mostly on footpaths up Marcus Clarke St, cross over Northbourne, go through the bus interchange (on the footpath), into Garema Place or City Walk (on the footpath).

In the future, maybe you go up the on road cycle path on Marcus Clarke, then the one on Rudd St. Cross over Northbourne and onto the on road cycle path on Bunda St and there you are. No footpaths necessary (or maybe only for a short period). Presumably everyone should be happy.

Also, @Leon, there is a reason why cyclists do not go down Bunda St at the moment, but stay on the footpaths or go via Garema Place. Because Bunda St on road is a nightmare for cyclists. So saying there is no need for cycle access because only 1% of users are cyclists is missing the point.

My view is that a one way street with no on street parking offers the best solution – if you really need to go down the street you can; it gives us room for cycle paths, extra footpath space and perhaps extra seating space and businesses can load and unload in designated loading zones.

Finally, I dont understand why cyclists are being blamed or criticised here. Bunda St is mostly pedestrian and its terrible for pedestrians and for traffic. Clearly something needs to be done – and all of these proposals are focused on pedestrians (with traffic and cyclists taking a back seat). For example, if you were car focused the proposals would be vastly different (eg put in overhead pedestrian bridges). So stop whinging about bikes, these are pedestrian solutions. Whinge about the pedestrians clogging up our roads.

Plus the reason there are three proposals is to cover off three different ideas eg shared space, one way road, changing the environment. Clearly each consultant was told to focus on one type of solution; otherwise I suspect they may have all come up with the same answer (for me, single lane – because its true that shared roads dont work in Australia at the moment).

I can’t believe people dont want any of the solutions – what do you want done with Bunda St? Leave it as it is, with cars and people and trucks and grime and ticky tack shops?

Henry82 9:55 am 17 Jan 13

johnboy said :

As a cyclist i’ve got to say that given a choice between a bunda street cycle lane or the who,e width of City Walk I’m going to take City Walk every time.

I’d agree, City Walk is wide open. Bunda street has vehicles pulling out without looking, or racing to beat pedestrians to the crossings

Henry82 9:52 am 17 Jan 13

patrick_keogh said :

Perhaps instead what you mean is that in Australia we have a way to go in terms of driver behaviour before shared zones will work.

see post 24

patrick_keogh said :

So what do we need to do in the interim if shared spaces are to work? A combination of education and enforcement will be required to reset community expectations about how the dynamic of these spaces must work. Will this be hard? Of course.!

Well, here are my suggestions for childers st.

1. Put the chicanes back in
2. reduce the speed limit to 10km hr
3. Remove the pedestrian crossings and/or make the entire area a pedestrian crossing
4. Actually enforce the speed limit, this includes police and ANU security

davo101 9:50 am 17 Jan 13

PantsMan said :

2. Is there any evidence that people want to cycle down Bunda St more than any other street? Most people (including me) want to cycle TO Bunda Street (because there is something there), not transit it! What about Northbourne, and Garema Place as an alternate route for all those who are currently “forced” to ride down Bunda St?

Classic RiotACT approach to public policy–everything should be done assuming that I am the most important person in the world. I only ride to Bunda St therefore any other cycling infrastructure in Civic is a waste of money and should not be built.

PS: As pointed out by other posters it’s illegal to ride through Garema Place (unless you can find a route that is more than 10m away from any shop).

davo101 9:38 am 17 Jan 13

kakosi said :

Bunda Street was only redeveloped a short while ago and it’s fine apart from the fact traffic can’t flow well due to all the pedestrian traffic during lunch and dinner times. The only thing they should do to improve the situation is add a couple of “walk lights” on the pedestrian crossings to improve the traffic flow. A hell of a lot cheaper than pulling up all the new footpaths and starting again.

Or better still only let delivery vehicles use Bunda St.

PantsMan 9:24 am 17 Jan 13

Dacquiri said :

Another shocking and shabby excuse for a ‘consultation’. I’ve just attempted to lodge my comments on the official feedback form and … guess what? You can’t submit the form unless you indicate your ranking (1, 2 3) of the 3 proposed options. There is then a space for other comments, but you can’t submit comments or even say ‘none of the above’ with counter-proposals. Haven’t we been through this before?

This ^

kakosi said :

Bunda Street was only redeveloped a short while ago and it’s fine apart from the fact traffic can’t flow well due to all the pedestrian traffic during lunch and dinner times. The only thing they should do to improve the situation is add a couple of “walk lights” on the pedestrian crossings to improve the traffic flow. A hell of a lot cheaper than pulling up all the new footpaths and starting again.

I am surprised at what a ridiculous waste of money this all is.

The fact that the Canberra Hospital is still using wheelchairs made in the 70s, most with parts held together with tape and brakes that don’t work, tells me that every ACT Government we’ve had since self-government has not their priorities right.

This ^

Henry82 said :

I hope they realise shared zones just don’t work.

This ^

Chop71 said :

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Same can’t be said about hospital waiting times.

This ^

    johnboy 9:41 am 17 Jan 13

    As a cyclist i’ve got to say that given a choice between a bunda street cycle lane or the who,e width of City Walk I’m going to take City Walk every time.

    Cycling access to civic is hampered by Northbourne and Barry drive, not anything on Bunda.

Chop71 9:09 am 17 Jan 13

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Same can’t be said about hospital waiting times.

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