16 January 2013

New visions for Bunda Street

| johnboy
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bunda street plans

Shane Rattenbury has announced the release of concept plans for Bunda Street:

The redesign of Bunda Street will form part of the Civic Cycle Loop project, a 3.2 kilometre path that loops around the City and connects to existing paths that lead into the City. The ACT Government has so far invested $6 million for the design and construction of the Civic Cycle Loop.

“These are exciting new designs for Canberra’s city centre that we hope will encourage pedestrians and cyclists, improve safety, and also create a vibrant and user-friendly urban space,” said Mr Rattenbury.

“The Bunda Street section of the Civic Cycle Loop, between Mort and Akuna Streets, requires special design consideration as it has high pedestrian and traffic volumes and a busy retail and hospitality environment.

“We engaged three separate, highly qualified and experienced urban design consultants to participate in a design competition for the Bunda Street section of the loop. Each consultant has presented their best design proposal for the space. Each design has a unique proposal to manage Bunda Street as a high-use space for motorists, pedestrians and cyclists.

“We really encourage the community to get involved and provide feedback on which design they think would work best for the Bunda Street section of the cycle loop.

You can take a look on the time to talk site.

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20 years ago when I cycled every day riders seemed to manage to ride on the road and not get squished. Are riders so mentally challenged these days that the ACT government has to waste $6 million plus trying to nanny them through town? This most recent flagrant waste of tax dollars is good reason to move across the border.

A cycleway on Cooyong and Corranderrk Sts will offer connections to Commonwealth Avenue Bridge via Marcus Clarke St at one end. At the other end it offers several ways to get to the bridge via Allara St.

You can get into Civic from Cooyong/Coranderrk Sts via Scotts Crossing, Petrie St, Ainslie Avenue (which is a public thoroughfare), Akuna St or Constitution Avenue.

davo101 said :

A path on Cooyong and Corranderrk won’t connect with the cycle path coming over the Commonwealth bridge and also provides no facilities to get to anywhere in Civic.

Jack Waterford is in his element today on the whole Bunda Street, Civic, and the history and worrying future of a city centre which has the potential to be much better: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/opinion/no-need-for-civic-velodrome-20130119-2d0g4.html

If by element, you mean sounding like a tired old crank with no ideas but still very able to bitch meanderingly about stuff, then he sure is.

You wouldn’t know it from the way he talks, but I’d say Civic has improved since he supposedly thinks it went off course. The fault is that of the commercial operators who have let much of Civic go stale. So if QIC wants to spend big, of course that’s going to suck people out of other areas – and other parts of Civic had plenty of time to upgrade before the Canberra Centre behemoth became what it is. Walk through Centrepoint (basically empty), place should have been bulldozed long ago.

miz said :

How about a two year moratorium on consultant’s reports and use the money saved to actually improve services. I am so fed up with pollies trying to ‘improve’ what is already pretty good, and messing it up, at massive cost.

Would that include the recent consultant’s report on having more Members of the Legislative Assembly?

It also says something about the ACT Public Service that they have who department providing advice, but the advice usually seems to be “commission a consultant.” Suppose that’s what you get when you employ the illiterate.

My taxes blah, blah, blah…

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

I always find it lol when somebody points good examples of good things happening in Europe and how it should work here then some lack wit jumps straight in with *WELL IS EUROPE HERE? NO WE DON’T WANT TO CHANGE TO THAT! F@$$&! STRAYA C$&@*

So bring on the autobahn then! Tuggeranong Autobahn, has a nice ring.

How about a two year moratorium on consultant’s reports and use the money saved to actually improve services. I am so fed up with pollies trying to ‘improve’ what is already pretty good, and messing it up, at massive cost.

cranky said :

Ah, Youth.

Back in the good old days, it was behoven of all young lads to do laps of Civic (in their hotties) at lunchtime, with the primary aim to arrive at the pedestrian crossing outside the Monaro Mall at the same time as tasty crumpet crossed. Traffic slowed to a stand still. But what an appreciative audience for the newly invented miniskirt.

O/T but I read somewhere that Seymour Michael, the fashion designer who invented the mini-skirt, died recently.

dungfungus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

dungfungus said :

I visited Seville in Spain a few years ago (about the same time the Stanhopes were doing the Camino de Santiago on bicycles). Before getting off the tourist bus at the hotel in the centre of Seville, the tour guide warned all that bicycle lanes had taken over the city and they travelled at very high speed with no intention of warning (the city noise drowns out everything) or giving way to pedestrians. I witnessed several collisions between pedistrians and gung-ho bike riders while I was there and had a couple of near misses myself. It is nice to create a shared zone on paper but the reality is that pedestians and bikes don’t mix well. Apossible solution is to create speed bumps in bicycle lanes (I am serious).

Some sources?

What do you mean, “some sources”?
Be specific please. Would you like sworn affidavits from me and my wife and the other people on the bus?

Don’t you know anything?

He wants screenshots.

From Spain.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd9:01 pm 17 Jan 13

dungfungus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

dungfungus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

I always find it lol when somebody points good examples of good things happening in Europe and how it should work here then some lack wit jumps straight in with *WELL IS EUROPE HERE? NO WE DON’T WANT TO CHANGE TO THAT! F@$$&! STRAYA C$&@*

I visited Seville in Spain a few years ago (about the same time the Stanhopes were doing the Camino de Santiago on bicycles). Before getting off the tourist bus at the hotel in the centre of Seville, the tour guide warned all that bicycle lanes had taken over the city and they travelled at very high speed with no intention of warning (the city noise drowns out everything) or giving way to pedestrians. I witnessed several collisions between pedistrians and gung-ho bike riders while I was there and had a couple of near misses myself. It is nice to create a shared zone on paper but the reality is that pedestians and bikes don’t mix well. Apossible solution is to create speed bumps in bicycle lanes (I am serious).

Some sources?

What do you mean, “some sources”?
Be specific please. Would you like sworn affidavits from me and my wife and the other people on the bus?

Maybe some non anecdotal story?

Ah, Youth.

Back in the good old days, it was behoven of all young lads to do laps of Civic (in their hotties) at lunchtime, with the primary aim to arrive at the pedestrian crossing outside the Monaro Mall at the same time as tasty crumpet crossed. Traffic slowed to a stand still. But what an appreciative audience for the newly invented miniskirt.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

dungfungus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

I always find it lol when somebody points good examples of good things happening in Europe and how it should work here then some lack wit jumps straight in with *WELL IS EUROPE HERE? NO WE DON’T WANT TO CHANGE TO THAT! F@$$&! STRAYA C$&@*

I visited Seville in Spain a few years ago (about the same time the Stanhopes were doing the Camino de Santiago on bicycles). Before getting off the tourist bus at the hotel in the centre of Seville, the tour guide warned all that bicycle lanes had taken over the city and they travelled at very high speed with no intention of warning (the city noise drowns out everything) or giving way to pedestrians. I witnessed several collisions between pedistrians and gung-ho bike riders while I was there and had a couple of near misses myself. It is nice to create a shared zone on paper but the reality is that pedestians and bikes don’t mix well. Apossible solution is to create speed bumps in bicycle lanes (I am serious).

Some sources?

What do you mean, “some sources”?
Be specific please. Would you like sworn affidavits from me and my wife and the other people on the bus?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd7:02 pm 17 Jan 13

dungfungus said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

I always find it lol when somebody points good examples of good things happening in Europe and how it should work here then some lack wit jumps straight in with *WELL IS EUROPE HERE? NO WE DON’T WANT TO CHANGE TO THAT! F@$$&! STRAYA C$&@*

I visited Seville in Spain a few years ago (about the same time the Stanhopes were doing the Camino de Santiago on bicycles). Before getting off the tourist bus at the hotel in the centre of Seville, the tour guide warned all that bicycle lanes had taken over the city and they travelled at very high speed with no intention of warning (the city noise drowns out everything) or giving way to pedestrians. I witnessed several collisions between pedistrians and gung-ho bike riders while I was there and had a couple of near misses myself. It is nice to create a shared zone on paper but the reality is that pedestians and bikes don’t mix well. Apossible solution is to create speed bumps in bicycle lanes (I am serious).

Some sources?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

I always find it lol when somebody points good examples of good things happening in Europe and how it should work here then some lack wit jumps straight in with *WELL IS EUROPE HERE? NO WE DON’T WANT TO CHANGE TO THAT! F@$$&! STRAYA C$&@*

I visited Seville in Spain a few years ago (about the same time the Stanhopes were doing the Camino de Santiago on bicycles). Before getting off the tourist bus at the hotel in the centre of Seville, the tour guide warned all that bicycle lanes had taken over the city and they travelled at very high speed with no intention of warning (the city noise drowns out everything) or giving way to pedestrians. I witnessed several collisions between pedistrians and gung-ho bike riders while I was there and had a couple of near misses myself. It is nice to create a shared zone on paper but the reality is that pedestians and bikes don’t mix well. Apossible solution is to create speed bumps in bicycle lanes (I am serious).

Leon said :

New cycling facilities that are proposed along Cooyong and Corranderrk St will allow much of the cycling through-traffic to bypass Civic, making any cycling facilities on Bunda St largely redundant.

A path on Cooyong and Corranderrk won’t connect with the cycle path coming over the Commonwealth bridge and also provides no facilities to get to anywhere in Civic.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd3:50 pm 17 Jan 13

I always find it lol when somebody points good examples of good things happening in Europe and how it should work here then some lack wit jumps straight in with *WELL IS EUROPE HERE? NO WE DON’T WANT TO CHANGE TO THAT! F@$$&! STRAYA C$&@*

patrick_keogh said :

the Civic Cycle loop … will provide a safe and convenient route for cyclists from the pedestrian footbridge over Parkes Way at Commonwealth Park … gathering up those who currently ride down Constitution and from Reid and bring them to one end of Bunda Street. The other part of the loop collects cyclists from the Dickson/O’Connor cycle path, ANU and the other pedestrian bridge over Parkes Way at New Acton and deposits them at the other end of Bunda Street. Collectively this is approximately 40% of the total cycle traffic travelling through Civic.

If the Civic Cycle Loop does not make provision for these cyclists to ride safely along Bunda Street (the middle of the loop) then they will continue to rat-run through City Walk, Garema Place, Petrie Plaza etc. and along the footpaths.

If your figures are based on Pedal Power’s annual cordon count, then you probably mean “40% of the total cycling traffic INTO Civic.”

New cycling facilities that are proposed along Cooyong and Corranderrk St will allow much of the cycing through-traffic to bypass Civic, making any cycling facilities on Bunda St largely redundant.

patrick_keogh said :

If the Civic Cycle Loop does not make provision for these cyclists to ride safely along Bunda Street (the middle of the loop) then they will continue to rat-run through City Walk, Garema Place, Petrie Plaza etc. and along the footpaths.

The pedestrian areas of Civic currently present little impediment to cyclists, and often provide the shortest route from A to B. It would have been more cost effective to simply mark a cycle lane in these areas to create an identifiable separation between pedestrians and cyclists.

The cycle loop is an expensive solution in search of a problem. Unless bicycles are banned from City Walk (etc) I will continue to ‘rat-run’.

patrick_keogh1:43 pm 17 Jan 13

Leon said :

Is Bunda St an important cycling ROUTE?

It’s obviously an important cycling DESTINATION, as demonstrated by the usually-full bike parking in the adjoining streets.

Some time ago I surveyed traffic on Bunda St. 88% of the on-road traffic was pedestrians crossing from one side to the other. 11% was motor vehicles driving along Bunds St. Bicycle made up only 1% of the on-road traffic.

Leon this is disingenuous or at least forgetful. Just to remind you, the Civic Cycle loop which is under construction will provide a safe and convenient route for cyclists from the pedestrian footbridge over Parkes Way at Commonwealth Park (near the swimming pool), gathering up those who currently ride down Constitution and from Reid and bring them to one end of Bunda Street. The other part of the loop collects cyclists from the Dickson/O’Connor cycle path, ANU and the other pedestrian bridge over Parkes Way at New Acton and deposits them at the other end of Bunda Street. Collectively this is approximately 40% of the total cycle traffic travelling through Civic.

If the Civic Cycle Loop does not make provision for these cyclists to ride safely along Bunda Street (the middle of the loop) then they will continue to rat-run through City Walk, Garema Place, Petrie Plaza etc. and along the footpaths.

I would have thought that you of all people would be in favour of reducing the bicycle traffic in these primarily pedestrian areas.

johnboy said :

As a cyclist i’ve got to say that given a choice between a bunda street cycle lane or the who,e width of City Walk I’m going to take City Walk every time.

Cycling access to civic is hampered by Northbourne and Barry drive, not anything on Bunda.

I’m not so sure about this. Say that you (like me) are riding into Civic from O’Connor. You go up the cycle path to Barry Drive/Marcus Clarke St. Now at the moment you meander all over the place, mostly on footpaths up Marcus Clarke St, cross over Northbourne, go through the bus interchange (on the footpath), into Garema Place or City Walk (on the footpath).

In the future, maybe you go up the on road cycle path on Marcus Clarke, then the one on Rudd St. Cross over Northbourne and onto the on road cycle path on Bunda St and there you are. No footpaths necessary (or maybe only for a short period). Presumably everyone should be happy.

Also, @Leon, there is a reason why cyclists do not go down Bunda St at the moment, but stay on the footpaths or go via Garema Place. Because Bunda St on road is a nightmare for cyclists. So saying there is no need for cycle access because only 1% of users are cyclists is missing the point.

My view is that a one way street with no on street parking offers the best solution – if you really need to go down the street you can; it gives us room for cycle paths, extra footpath space and perhaps extra seating space and businesses can load and unload in designated loading zones.

Finally, I dont understand why cyclists are being blamed or criticised here. Bunda St is mostly pedestrian and its terrible for pedestrians and for traffic. Clearly something needs to be done – and all of these proposals are focused on pedestrians (with traffic and cyclists taking a back seat). For example, if you were car focused the proposals would be vastly different (eg put in overhead pedestrian bridges). So stop whinging about bikes, these are pedestrian solutions. Whinge about the pedestrians clogging up our roads.

Plus the reason there are three proposals is to cover off three different ideas eg shared space, one way road, changing the environment. Clearly each consultant was told to focus on one type of solution; otherwise I suspect they may have all come up with the same answer (for me, single lane – because its true that shared roads dont work in Australia at the moment).

I can’t believe people dont want any of the solutions – what do you want done with Bunda St? Leave it as it is, with cars and people and trucks and grime and ticky tack shops?

johnboy said :

As a cyclist i’ve got to say that given a choice between a bunda street cycle lane or the who,e width of City Walk I’m going to take City Walk every time.

I’d agree, City Walk is wide open. Bunda street has vehicles pulling out without looking, or racing to beat pedestrians to the crossings

patrick_keogh said :

Perhaps instead what you mean is that in Australia we have a way to go in terms of driver behaviour before shared zones will work.

see post 24

patrick_keogh said :

So what do we need to do in the interim if shared spaces are to work? A combination of education and enforcement will be required to reset community expectations about how the dynamic of these spaces must work. Will this be hard? Of course.!

Well, here are my suggestions for childers st.

1. Put the chicanes back in
2. reduce the speed limit to 10km hr
3. Remove the pedestrian crossings and/or make the entire area a pedestrian crossing
4. Actually enforce the speed limit, this includes police and ANU security

PantsMan said :

2. Is there any evidence that people want to cycle down Bunda St more than any other street? Most people (including me) want to cycle TO Bunda Street (because there is something there), not transit it! What about Northbourne, and Garema Place as an alternate route for all those who are currently “forced” to ride down Bunda St?

Classic RiotACT approach to public policy–everything should be done assuming that I am the most important person in the world. I only ride to Bunda St therefore any other cycling infrastructure in Civic is a waste of money and should not be built.

PS: As pointed out by other posters it’s illegal to ride through Garema Place (unless you can find a route that is more than 10m away from any shop).

kakosi said :

Bunda Street was only redeveloped a short while ago and it’s fine apart from the fact traffic can’t flow well due to all the pedestrian traffic during lunch and dinner times. The only thing they should do to improve the situation is add a couple of “walk lights” on the pedestrian crossings to improve the traffic flow. A hell of a lot cheaper than pulling up all the new footpaths and starting again.

Or better still only let delivery vehicles use Bunda St.

Another shocking and shabby excuse for a ‘consultation’. I’ve just attempted to lodge my comments on the official feedback form and … guess what? You can’t submit the form unless you indicate your ranking (1, 2 3) of the 3 proposed options. There is then a space for other comments, but you can’t submit comments or even say ‘none of the above’ with counter-proposals. Haven’t we been through this before?

This ^

kakosi said :

Bunda Street was only redeveloped a short while ago and it’s fine apart from the fact traffic can’t flow well due to all the pedestrian traffic during lunch and dinner times. The only thing they should do to improve the situation is add a couple of “walk lights” on the pedestrian crossings to improve the traffic flow. A hell of a lot cheaper than pulling up all the new footpaths and starting again.

I am surprised at what a ridiculous waste of money this all is.

The fact that the Canberra Hospital is still using wheelchairs made in the 70s, most with parts held together with tape and brakes that don’t work, tells me that every ACT Government we’ve had since self-government has not their priorities right.

This ^

Henry82 said :

I hope they realise shared zones just don’t work.

This ^

Chop71 said :

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Same can’t be said about hospital waiting times.

This ^

As a cyclist i’ve got to say that given a choice between a bunda street cycle lane or the who,e width of City Walk I’m going to take City Walk every time.

Cycling access to civic is hampered by Northbourne and Barry drive, not anything on Bunda.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Same can’t be said about hospital waiting times.

Is Bunda St an important cycling ROUTE?

It’s obviously an important cycling DESTINATION, as demonstrated by the usually-full bike parking in the adjoining streets.

Some time ago I surveyed traffic on Bunda St. 88% of the on-road traffic was pedestrians crossing from one side to the other. 11% was motor vehicles driving along Bunds St. Bicycle made up only 1% of the on-road traffic.

Another shocking and shabby excuse for a ‘consultation’. I’ve just attempted to lodge my comments on the official feedback form and … guess what? You can’t submit the form unless you indicate your ranking (1, 2 3) of the 3 proposed options. There is then a space for other comments, but you can’t submit comments or even say ‘none of the above’ with counter-proposals. Haven’t we been through this before?

“When forced to choose between conspiracy and incompetence, choose incompetence.”

kakosi said :

The fact that the Canberra Hospital is still using wheelchairs made in the 70s, most with parts held together with tape and brakes that don’t work, tells me that every ACT Government we’ve had since self-government has not their priorities right.

Agreed.

Seems to me if they restrict access to vehicles at lunch hours that may reduce the risk of injury. With cyclists, I don’t know how well they will co-exist with the pedestrians (I am not saying they will or they won’t, I just don’t have an opinion) – but I can’t help thinking that the predominance of a cyclists in the picture suggests they are trying to place a “green” tinge on the picture more than anything. Maybe this will be a large benefit to cyclists as well as pedestrians. Experience with act governments in the past has brought a cyclical perspective on these things that’s all.

You can tell something is wrong when its only one street. If it was a popular idea it would be in a few places.

All the examples are in cities half a world away.. why not an example from an australian city the same size?

Whats wrong with putting the cycle lane on the main road.. if they want to come in have bike racks on the main road, they’re more than likely going to shop in the mall than anything else.

Anyway.. I know shane and others might actually read this..

Bunda street is successful. YES.. but why not make other places like bunda street or extend bunda street atmosphere further. Build on the success rather than try and make it more accessable and breaking it.

If the speed limit was 10km/h on bunda street there would be no problem. Cars would avoid it and cyclists could travel the same speed. All the parking should be removed and only have loading bays.
and bunda should only be one way.

Most of all the cycle way works for the way that area has been working for the last 10 years. Thats not to say it will stay the same. Wont be long before they’re approving a redevelopment of centrepoint

GardeningGirl9:48 pm 16 Jan 13

kakosi said :

Bunda Street was only redeveloped a short while ago and it’s fine apart from the fact traffic can’t flow well due to all the pedestrian traffic during lunch and dinner times. The only thing they should do to improve the situation is add a couple of “walk lights” on the pedestrian crossings to improve the traffic flow. A hell of a lot cheaper than pulling up all the new footpaths and starting again.

As for shared car, bike and pedestrian zones I can see quite a few injuries or even fatalities happening as people/children walk right into a car or bicycle. Even at 10 km per hour speed limit you’ll still get accidents happening and I can’t imagine how far the traffic jam will extend at lunch times as cars, vans and trucks drive slowly behind walkers who will also have the right of way.

I am surprised at what a ridiculous waste of money this all is.

The fact that the Canberra Hospital is still using wheelchairs made in the 70s, most with parts held together with tape and brakes that don’t work, tells me that every ACT Government we’ve had since self-government has not their priorities right.

” it’s fine apart from the fact traffic can’t flow well due to all the pedestrian traffic during lunch and dinner times. The only thing they should do to improve the situation is add a couple of “walk lights” on the pedestrian crossings to improve the traffic flow.” If I’m approaching the pedestrian crossing and there are cars I try to either keep up with other pedestrians about to cross or I slow right down to let the cars have time to go before I cross, rather than wander in a stretched out line holding up the cars, but I guess I’m stupid that way, I try to think of others.

And speaking of hospitals, I still remember in the old Acton hospital the broken bottle warmer in pedeatrics necessitating the use of a microwave to (OVER)heat milk, while the admin offices I had to walk past on the way in looked very schmick indeed. Yeah, priorities. 🙁

GardeningGirl9:37 pm 16 Jan 13

dtc said :

GardeningGirl said :

Sorry, but having almost been hit by a speeding cyclist twice recently right near where that picture shows, WHILE ON THE FOOTPATH, the idea of encouraging cyclists to think of the area as their own doesn’t thrill me. Unless perhaps they stay ONLY on that green line? But there’s always a selfish minority who zoom back and forth between being road traffic and cycle lane traffic and footpath traffic as it suits them with no regard for the other people having to jump sideways or slam on brakes. Minority spoiling it for all. That’s my gut reaction to the happy artists impression. Suppose I’d better go read the whole release.

Sooo, having almost been hit on the footpath you oppose having dedicated bike lanes that take cyclists off the footpath?

To get to, say, the Canberra Centre from west Civic (or Turner etc) you either need to take your lift in your hands and ride down Bunda St (with cars and pedestrians and taxis etc going all over the place, including parking and pulling out without seeing you) or ride on the footpath. Its the same along Marcus Clarke St (where they are also putting in cycle lanes) and much of London Cct.

Now if you think cyclists should just deal with it, then fine – but that means there will be cyclists on the footpaths with you.

I’m too tired, and cynical, to read through everything right now and try to write a decent response, just want to clarify how I feel, I’ve walked around Civic including areas I was under the impression are not for cycling, didn’t there use to be a rule about not within x number of metres of the entrance to a shop? and if I’m being considerate and paying reasonable attention and they are being considerate and paying reasonable attention everyone goes happily on there way even in those areas or anywhere else without causing any problems for anyone each, my goodness, it sounds like a shared zone, I saw a European one on tv once (perhaps on Beyond Tommorrow or Catalyst or something like that?) they did away with the rules and signs and lanes and just said watch out for each other, and people did! and I’d love it if that sort of thing happened here, but on recent experience my gut reaction to something that looks like a neon sign saying cyclists, welcome to this cycle friendly part of town, is no no, don’t encourage them, does anyone really think once they’re there they will stay on the green and dismount when they wish to depart the green, it doesn’t happen, like I said some, SOME, zoom wherever it suits them with no thought for others. And I think I agree with the comment (at a quick glance)about spending something on the Garema ghost town.

patrick_keogh9:33 pm 16 Jan 13

Henry82 said :

I hope they realise shared zones just don’t work.

Henry thanks for this insightful contribution. I’ll immediately have to write to the mayors of some of the towns and cities that I have spent time in where shared zones appear to be working to let them know that the idea is doomed…

Florence, Rome, Siena, Antibes, Cordoba, Boston, San Antonio, Munich, Pienza, Dijon, Granada and lots more… I’ll certainly have some letter writing to do.

Perhaps instead what you mean is that in Australia we have a way to go in terms of driver behaviour before shared zones will work. Certainly just “declaring” a street a shared zone doesn’t work. Just setting the speed limit at 10kph or 20kph isn’t enough. Indeed “declaring” is not even required when drivers are educated to understand the need to coexist with other users of a space, and that sitting in a metal box is not an entitlement to preferential access. I remember sitting outside the church in Pienza watching the mix of traffic travel down the one-way main street. A Volvo driver, pedestrians, cyclists, prams, wheelchairs… it was all there. The speed limit is (in theory) I think 30kph. The actual traffic speed was around 5kph. Did the Volvo driver bang the car roof, yell abuse, toot the horn? No. He drove at 5kph because that was the speed that he could safely manage with all the other road users. That is what a “shared space” really means.

We (especially but not exclusively our car drivers) are still a little short of making this kind of shared space work automatically. So what do we need to do in the interim if shared spaces are to work? A combination of education and enforcement will be required to reset community expectations about how the dynamic of these spaces must work. Will this be hard? Of course. Does it have enduring value to our community? Of course. Every year our population gets older and the percentage of vulnerable pedestrians and cyclists increases and we must do what we can to protect these groups.

So Henry, don’t give up – don’t believe that you can’t change. You can and it is for the best!

Bunda Street was only redeveloped a short while ago and it’s fine apart from the fact traffic can’t flow well due to all the pedestrian traffic during lunch and dinner times. The only thing they should do to improve the situation is add a couple of “walk lights” on the pedestrian crossings to improve the traffic flow. A hell of a lot cheaper than pulling up all the new footpaths and starting again.

As for shared car, bike and pedestrian zones I can see quite a few injuries or even fatalities happening as people/children walk right into a car or bicycle. Even at 10 km per hour speed limit you’ll still get accidents happening and I can’t imagine how far the traffic jam will extend at lunch times as cars, vans and trucks drive slowly behind walkers who will also have the right of way.

I am surprised at what a ridiculous waste of money this all is.

The fact that the Canberra Hospital is still using wheelchairs made in the 70s, most with parts held together with tape and brakes that don’t work, tells me that every ACT Government we’ve had since self-government has not their priorities right.

PantsMan said :

1. Isn’t Bunda St the most vibrant street in the Civic? Wasn’t it revamped as part of the Canberra Centre expansion (by the private sector) only a couple of years ago? Is it now at the end of its economic life?

2. Is there any evidence that people want to cycle down Bunda St more than any other street? Most people (including me) want to cycle TO Bunda Street (because there is something there), not transit it! What about Northbourne, and Garema Place as an alternate route for all those who are currently “forced” to ride down Bunda St?

3. Why don’t they spend the $8 million money on Garema Place, where the benevolent social planners have created a ghost town full of boarded up shops and an abhorrent cityscape? And where is the $8 million coming from Shane, given the $380 m deficit (not including The Greens policies yet to be implemented).

This is all about making what people demonstrably want to do (that is, go somewhere in Civic that is not a ghost town, frequent busy cafes and stores, in their cars, or by walking; despite the “dangerous” cars travelling at 15 km/h and that stop at pedestrian crossings) and imposing Green/environmental/Marxist/bike riding normative values upon Canberrans.

Ultimately, it is social engineering where Shane gets to say:

I disapprove of you because you drive a car or you run a business. I am now going to engineer a situation where you no longer have the choice to drive, choice to park, choice to run a successful business, as I am going to make those choices for you according to my personal political (extremist) agenda.

Thanks for voting for the tool, people! We’ve got this for four years!

That’s too farking funny. Oh noes, you’ve spat your dummy clear across Bunda St, the Champs-Élysées of Canberra, and now you won’t be able to retrieve it because the Marxists are going to establish a cyclocracy and ring their bells at anyone without two wheels who dares to use the road. More please.

HarrisonExpress7:41 pm 16 Jan 13

Seems like a huge waste of money for 2 reasons;

1. I agree with PantsMan…who wants to ride down Bunda St anyway?
2. Even if I did want to ride down Bunda St, the traffic moves so slowly its easy to ride on the road!

I’d love to see the Northbourne cycle lane improved with a kerb to keep cars out of the bike lane.

Wow, the outrage!

I read about this on ABC where, business seems happy with the proposals:

“Stephen Gregory from Canberra CBD Limited says any activity that improves Civic is welcome.

“The thing about a shared zone is that everybody has the right of way and I think that’s important in a space like this,” he said.

“What we’re seeing in some of these designs is examples of what works in other big cities around the world.”

PantsMan said :

What an absolute load of s*&t!

Because Bunda St is the only street where one can successfully run a business in Civic, because people actually want to go there, and because people who ride bikeS (like me) just plainly do not actually want to ride down Bunda St, as it is really on the way to nowhere, the Marxists at the London Circuit Soviet have a problem of capitalism seeming to work, and their extremist agenda not being imposed upon the lemmings of Canberra.

Shane Rattenbury’s solution to Canberrans seeming to engage in capitalist behaviour is to ban it, then impose his extremist, Marxist, bike-riding agenda on us all. Will Shane compensate all the businesses that will go bust on Bunda St when it became another Garema Place?

If you tolerate this, then your business will be next!

Maybe Mayor Rattenbury should just take his (READ OUR!) $8 million f*&k-up waiting to happen and just go away.

I have a lovely selection of tinfoil hats just in, all at discounted prices.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Stop being such babies. This is a great idea.

I agree, Bunda St has been turned into a great eating precinct in parts & there is nothing worse than sitting outside & having cars & loud bikes go past.

Southlife in Tuggers is the same, it would be so much better without the traffic in the main street.

When it all comes down to it, for the most part, parking in the car parks of Cooyong St sees you pop out onto one of the side streets within a few steps of Bunda. There is a different park almost all the way so you don’t have to walk far if you don’t want to.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd4:33 pm 16 Jan 13

Stop being such babies. This is a great idea.

To those complaining about the shared road, or the lack of parking, you had better look at the designs and give feedback so that the one that is most suitable to what you would like is chosen instead of the one that isn’t.

enrique said :

To all the people complaining about this saying it won’t work… have any of you ever been to Europe?

I’m sure it does in Europe, but it doesn’t in Canberra. Simply walk to Childers St and you’ll see why

“In the early 1960’s Strøget, the main street running east-west through the city centre, became quite famous. It was closed off to cars and transformed into a pedestrian zone.

There were protests back then. Cries of “we’re not Italians! We don’t want to walk!” were heard in the city. Shopkeepers feared for their businesses. Fortunately, the idea was implemented and the architect and urban planner Jan Gehl was instrumental in making it happen.

This was a turning point in the modern life of Copenhagen. Cars were taking over, fewer people were cycling and the city was congested and polluted. Visionary political decision-making and urban planning was needed and it arrived.

Since then, Copenhagen hasn’t looked back. The fears of the shopkeepers were soon allayed – indeed there is nowhere in the world where pedestrian zones or bike lanes have caused commerce to suffer. These two urban planning instruments only serve to increase the number of pedestrians and act as a form of traffic calming. Streets become, quite simply, nicer places to be.”[1]

1. Isn’t Bunda St the most vibrant street in the Civic? Wasn’t it revamped as part of the Canberra Centre expansion (by the private sector) only a couple of years ago? Is it now at the end of its economic life?

2. Is there any evidence that people want to cycle down Bunda St more than any other street? Most people (including me) want to cycle TO Bunda Street (because there is something there), not transit it! What about Northbourne, and Garema Place as an alternate route for all those who are currently “forced” to ride down Bunda St?

3. Why don’t they spend the $8 million money on Garema Place, where the benevolent social planners have created a ghost town full of boarded up shops and an abhorrent cityscape? And where is the $8 million coming from Shane, given the $380 m deficit (not including The Greens policies yet to be implemented).

This is all about making what people demonstrably want to do (that is, go somewhere in Civic that is not a ghost town, frequent busy cafes and stores, in their cars, or by walking; despite the “dangerous” cars travelling at 15 km/h and that stop at pedestrian crossings) and imposing Green/environmental/Marxist/bike riding normative values upon Canberrans.

Ultimately, it is social engineering where Shane gets to say:

I disapprove of you because you drive a car or you run a business. I am now going to engineer a situation where you no longer have the choice to drive, choice to park, choice to run a successful business, as I am going to make those choices for you according to my personal political (extremist) agenda.

Thanks for voting for the tool, people! We’ve got this for four years!

enrique said :

To all the people complaining about this saying it won’t work… have any of you ever been to Europe? This sort of thing has been around for centuries and it works just fine. Netherlands or Denmark anyone?

So on this rationale can we have ‘cafes’ and throw in autobahn too?

Looks like another half-arsed design job. The shared zone will only work if Bunda street and surrounds are completely closed to general traffic and limited only to local/delivery vehicles from specified locations.

They are really defeating the point if they keep it open to general traffic and keep on street parking.

Bunda St does not go anywhere so it does not need to be open to traffic. You’d have to be crazy or very lucky to get a car park on Bunda St, and the majority of customers park at the Canberra Centre.

Key questions is why have we just forked out millions to “beautify” the street in the last year or so when now they’re just going to dig it all up. How will this fit in with the ridiculous bike paths that are being constructed on Rudd St and Bunda St which have a path on each side of the road?

neanderthalsis3:37 pm 16 Jan 13

enrique said :

To all the people complaining about this saying it won’t work… have any of you ever been to Europe? This sort of thing has been around for centuries and it works just fine. Netherlands or Denmark anyone?

Yes, but here in Straya we have drivers who are oblivious to cyclists, pedestrians who are oblivious to cars and cyclists who are oblivious to everyone.

enrique said :

To all the people complaining about this saying it won’t work… have any of you ever been to Europe? This sort of thing has been around for centuries and it works just fine. Netherlands or Denmark anyone?

Except Australians are not Europeans we don’t think like them, and we don’t want to be like them.

To all the people complaining about this saying it won’t work… have any of you ever been to Europe? This sort of thing has been around for centuries and it works just fine. Netherlands or Denmark anyone?

GardeningGirl said :

Sorry, but having almost been hit by a speeding cyclist twice recently right near where that picture shows, WHILE ON THE FOOTPATH, the idea of encouraging cyclists to think of the area as their own doesn’t thrill me. Unless perhaps they stay ONLY on that green line? But there’s always a selfish minority who zoom back and forth between being road traffic and cycle lane traffic and footpath traffic as it suits them with no regard for the other people having to jump sideways or slam on brakes. Minority spoiling it for all. That’s my gut reaction to the happy artists impression. Suppose I’d better go read the whole release.

Sooo, having almost been hit on the footpath you oppose having dedicated bike lanes that take cyclists off the footpath?

To get to, say, the Canberra Centre from west Civic (or Turner etc) you either need to take your lift in your hands and ride down Bunda St (with cars and pedestrians and taxis etc going all over the place, including parking and pulling out without seeing you) or ride on the footpath. Its the same along Marcus Clarke St (where they are also putting in cycle lanes) and much of London Cct.

Now if you think cyclists should just deal with it, then fine – but that means there will be cyclists on the footpaths with you.

PantsMan said :

What an absolute load of s*&t!

Because Bunda St is the only street where one can successfully run a business in Civic, because people actually want to go there, and because people who ride bikeS (like me) just plainly do not actually want to ride down Bunda St, as it is really on the way to nowhere, the Marxists at the London Circuit Soviet have a problem of capitalism seeming to work, and their extremist agenda not being imposed upon the lemmings of Canberra.

Shane Rattenbury’s solution to Canberrans seeming to engage in capitalist behaviour is to ban it, then impose his extremist, Marxist, bike-riding agenda on us all. Will Shane compensate all the businesses that will go bust on Bunda St when it became another Garema Place?

If you tolerate this, then your business will be next!

Maybe Mayor Rattenbury should just take his (READ OUR!) $8 million f*&k-up waiting to happen and just go away.

If you look at the design concept by Spackman Mossop and Michaels, no parking/loading spaces are should be lost. On the right hand side of the pdf (just above the large concept “photo”) you can see a cross section of how the street is to be utilised. Two way separated bike path and a single lane of traffic with parking/loading zones on both sides of that lane.

The biggest danger I can see is that many pedestrians currently wander across wherever they feel like it, and I can see them stepping onto the bike lanes without looking.

what_the said :

Where are goods trucks supposed to unload with that plan? Does the plan include replacement parking on already limited spaces?

Goods deliveries will continue although I expect they would be restricted to certain times as they are elsewhere that have similar mixed use

Parking, I expect they want you to park in one of the 5000 short stay spaces in the immediate vicinity.

what_the said :

Where are goods trucks supposed to unload with that plan? Does the plan include replacement parking on already limited spaces?

Also, I notice the green band of cycleway extends down Allara st, that will please the merchants and the casino no end when the short-stay parking is removed..Get ready for a peasants revolt.

Looks good. Driving down Bunda St (unless you’re delivering goods) is a monumentally stupid thing to do anyway, given the volume of pedestrian traffic typically crossing the street there.

GardeningGirl12:52 pm 16 Jan 13

Sorry, but having almost been hit by a speeding cyclist twice recently right near where that picture shows, WHILE ON THE FOOTPATH, the idea of encouraging cyclists to think of the area as their own doesn’t thrill me. Unless perhaps they stay ONLY on that green line? But there’s always a selfish minority who zoom back and forth between being road traffic and cycle lane traffic and footpath traffic as it suits them with no regard for the other people having to jump sideways or slam on brakes. Minority spoiling it for all. That’s my gut reaction to the happy artists impression. Suppose I’d better go read the whole release.

BelcoMan said :

PantsMan said :

What an absolute load of s*&t!

Because Bunda St is the only street where one can successfully run a business in Civic, because people actually want to go there, and because people who ride bikeS (like me) just plainly do not actually want to ride down Bunda St, as it is really on the way to nowhere, the Marxists at the London Circuit Soviet have a problem of capitalism seeming to work, and their extremist agenda not being imposed upon the lemmings of Canberra.

Shane Rattenbury’s solution to Canberrans seeming to engage in capitalist behaviour is to ban it, then impose his extremist, Marxist, bike-riding agenda on us all. Will Shane compensate all the businesses that will go bust on Bunda St when it became another Garema Place?

If you tolerate this, then your business will be next!

Maybe Mayor Rattenbury should just take his (READ OUR!) $8 million f*&k-up waiting to happen and just go away.

I’m guessing the medication hasn’y kicked in yet?

I am guessing Shane want to be known as the next Mayor Clover? Bike paths, seriously?

Hang on…..are you not the one who does similar rants against the Summernats?

what_the said :

Where are goods trucks supposed to unload with that plan? Does the plan include replacement parking on already limited spaces?

but there shan’t be a need for car spaces as we’ll all be riding our bicycles now it is so safe to do so… sheesh, so short-sighted of you 🙂

PantsMan said :

What an absolute load of s*&t!

Because Bunda St is the only street where one can successfully run a business in Civic, because people actually want to go there, and because people who ride bikeS (like me) just plainly do not actually want to ride down Bunda St, as it is really on the way to nowhere, the Marxists at the London Circuit Soviet have a problem of capitalism seeming to work, and their extremist agenda not being imposed upon the lemmings of Canberra.

Shane Rattenbury’s solution to Canberrans seeming to engage in capitalist behaviour is to ban it, then impose his extremist, Marxist, bike-riding agenda on us all. Will Shane compensate all the businesses that will go bust on Bunda St when it became another Garema Place?

I don’t understand this ^

Are you saying Bunda St shops are doing OK now, and allowing (more) bikes will make them all go bust? If so, who are the bikes going to stop from shopping there? Car drivers or pedestrians? If car drivers, I doubt many Bunda shoppers actually drive there. If pedestrians, then why are you saying it will then be like Garema Pl (which is almost exclusively pedestrians – and is apparently going bust)?

BTW, I don’t support shared roads as they are generally just a mess – it’s just that I can’t understand your comment! 🙂
Having said that, you’d be mad to drive down Bunda St now (as it would take you ages), so making it formally shared is no big deal, IMO.

Where are goods trucks supposed to unload with that plan? Does the plan include replacement parking on already limited spaces?

HiddenDragon11:56 am 16 Jan 13

So is it/will it be one-way traffic, or are they changing to driving on the right hand side of the road, just to add to the lovely Euro-poseur feel of it all?

Hold your horses tax payers.
You not only paid for 1 study, but you paid for 3 …..

oh, I feel blessed that my gumby(mint) fees go to consultant studies showing people how to ride a bike around civic.

PantsMan said :

What an absolute load of s*&t!

Because Bunda St is the only street where one can successfully run a business in Civic, because people actually want to go there, and because people who ride bikeS (like me) just plainly do not actually want to ride down Bunda St, as it is really on the way to nowhere, the Marxists at the London Circuit Soviet have a problem of capitalism seeming to work, and their extremist agenda not being imposed upon the lemmings of Canberra.

Shane Rattenbury’s solution to Canberrans seeming to engage in capitalist behaviour is to ban it, then impose his extremist, Marxist, bike-riding agenda on us all. Will Shane compensate all the businesses that will go bust on Bunda St when it became another Garema Place?

If you tolerate this, then your business will be next!

Maybe Mayor Rattenbury should just take his (READ OUR!) $8 million f*&k-up waiting to happen and just go away.

I’m guessing the medication hasn’y kicked in yet?

I am guessing Shane want to be known as the next Mayor Clover? Bike paths, seriously?

Holden Caulfield11:28 am 16 Jan 13

Nice and quite appropriate reference to Manic Street Preachers there. 😛

What an absolute load of s*&t!

Because Bunda St is the only street where one can successfully run a business in Civic, because people actually want to go there, and because people who ride bikeS (like me) just plainly do not actually want to ride down Bunda St, as it is really on the way to nowhere, the Marxists at the London Circuit Soviet have a problem of capitalism seeming to work, and their extremist agenda not being imposed upon the lemmings of Canberra.

Shane Rattenbury’s solution to Canberrans seeming to engage in capitalist behaviour is to ban it, then impose his extremist, Marxist, bike-riding agenda on us all. Will Shane compensate all the businesses that will go bust on Bunda St when it became another Garema Place?

If you tolerate this, then your business will be next!

Maybe Mayor Rattenbury should just take his (READ OUR!) $8 million f*&k-up waiting to happen and just go away.

I hope they realise shared zones just don’t work.

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