25 July 2011

No licence, stolen car, doing a burnout, nailed.

25 July 2011 | johnboy

A 24-year-old Campbell man was arrested by police yesterday afternoon (Sunday, July 24) after engaging in a pursuit through Lyons and Phillip.

About 4.20pm police were on mobile patrol in Weston when they saw a Holden Commodore travelling at speed along Hilder Street. Police observed the vehicle do a burnout at which stage they activated their lights and sirens in order to conduct a traffic stop. The vehicle failed to stop and a pursuit commenced until police lost sight of the vehicle on Hindmarsh Drive at which stage the pursuit was terminated.

About 4.35pm police received a call from a member of the public that a Holden Commodore had been dumped and that a male was seen running from the vehicle towards the Waramanga shops.

Police attended the Waramanga shops and identified a male who matched the description given by the witness. The man was arrested and taken to the ACT Watch House.

The Holden Commodore was later reported as stolen.

The man was charged with traffic offences including perform burnout in vehicle, drive motor vehicle without consent and drive while right to drive suspended. He will appear in the ACT Magistrates Court today.

[Courtesy ACT Policing]

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Tooks8:57 am 27 Jul 11

Since they lost the car, ‘terminated’ and ‘ended’ mean the same thing. The difference is that one is plain English, and the other is pompous, verbose and not used in ordinary speech.

For a spelling/grammar Nazi like yourself, you clearly don’t know what the word ‘verbose’ means; replacing one word for another, does not make it verbose. I also fail to see how it is pompous.

‘Terminated’: anyone who has successfully completed primary school knows the meaning of the word.

As for pompous (having or exhibiting self-importance; arrogant), you’ve displayed that quality aptly over several posts attempting to display how good at English you are (although I’m yet to see an impressive example from you). Why don’t you grab a red pen and pick up a copy of the CT, or better still, one of the Murdoch tabloids. Hours of fun for you right there, picking out all their errors.

breda1:08 am 27 Jul 11

“Some people need to have a good read of the pursuit guidelines which are available on the ACT Policing website.

People should understand what ‘terminate’ means without firing from the hip on a subject they have clearly demonstrated they have little to no knowledge about.

‘Terminated’ and ‘ended’ do not mean the same thing at all in relation to a pursuit.”

Thank you for demonstrating my point perfectly. To suggest that anyone who reads a media release from ACT Police should understand the finer nuances of cop terminology (perhaps it should be taught in schools!) illustrates what is wrong with their communication, in some cases.

Nobody should need a glossary, or a reference to a police website, to understand what a public media release means. Forgive me for spelling out the obvious,but the purpose of a public media release, from any source, is to explain what is happening in language that the general public understands. This can be quite difficult in scientific or technical areas, but when describing a cop car chasing a motorist, it ain’t rocket science. Indeed, it takes a rare talent to obfuscate something so simple.

The end.

Or, the termination of comment from a person who is believed to be known to police, while activating sirens and lights, at this stage.

Spideydog8:38 pm 26 Jul 11

Mental Health Worker said :

Sometimes they follow cars at a distance, without the “blues and twos”, and I suspect that doesn’t get called a pursuit. But if the person being followed notices them and begins to drive like a dick, then it is their perception that they are being pursued which really matters.

Oh Lord, please give me strength ……… All right, all Police hand in your vehicle’s. You don’t want to be driving around and “someone” might think they are being “pursued” Pfft.

threepaws8:26 pm 26 Jul 11

breda said :

“Since they lost the car, ‘terminated’ and ‘ended’ mean the same thing. The difference is that one is plain English, and the other is pompous, verbose and not used in ordinary speech.

Such as the pregnancy was terminated? Or this bus terminates at X stop?

Verbose is hardly a commonly used word but you seem pretty keen to keep throwing it out there…

And no, terminated and ended do not always mean the same thing.

TR7:13 pm 26 Jul 11

Some people need to have a good read of the pursuit guidelines which are available on the ACT Policing website.

People should understand what ‘terminate’ means without firing from the hip on a subject they have clearly demonstrated they have little to no knowledge about.

‘Terminated’ and ‘ended’ do not mean the same thing at all in relation to a pursuit.

Mental Health Worker6:42 pm 26 Jul 11

I have some pity for the AFP, having this pursuit so soon after the Greens proposal was released.

But I too wonder about some of the use of terminology – it would be interesting to see how the police could have continued to pursue a car they have lost sight of, so the statement that the pursuit was terminated is largely redundant. It’s also interesting that on a wide straight road like Hindmarsh Drive, that the offender was able to escape them. Though I suppose there are a lot of junctions at which he may have been going through red lights (though there’s no mention at the end of the media release of such offences, or even speeding!).

I think also when the police use the term “pursuit” it has a specific meaning to them, that we members of the public may not be completely aware of. Sometimes they follow cars at a distance, without the “blues and twos”, and I suspect that doesn’t get called a pursuit. But if the person being followed notices them and begins to drive like a dick, then it is their perception that they are being pursued which really matters.

Even more so when police have been pursuing under lights and sirens, but then stop the lights and sirens, drop back in speed and distance, but continue to follow. By their definition the pursuit is ended (or “terminated”), but the offender may not see it that way, and they may continue to drive dangerously and cause a serious accident.

Semantics, eh? Life would be much less interesting without them.

MHW

breda6:06 pm 26 Jul 11

“And it takes less than 30 seconds to see that your version doesn’t work. The pursuit was ‘ended’ how exactly? Did it end with the police shooting the offender? Did it end with the offender surrendering? Did it end when both cars burst into flames?

Although it is becoming obvious that the word ‘terminated’ is offensive to your sensitive vocabularies, it is still the correct word to use. One little word that explains that not only did the pursuit end, but how it ended.”

You mean, like, ‘terminated with extreme prejudice’?

Since they lost the car, ‘terminated’ and ‘ended’ mean the same thing. The difference is that one is plain English, and the other is pompous, verbose and not used in ordinary speech.

As to the notion that we need a glossary of police terminology to understand their media releases, I suspect that the author has somehow missed the point of communicating with the general public.

To demonstrate that this is not a police bashing exercise, I have just commented favourably on a recent release in another thread. The “I was proceeding in a northerly direction when I apprehended a suspicious person who was egressing the building’ style of communication went out with bustles. It is even worse when combined with a total lack of understanding of the basics of grammar.

threepaws9:08 am 26 Jul 11

breda said :

OK, here is the semi-literate original:

“About 4.20pm police were on mobile patrol in Weston when they saw a Holden Commodore travelling at speed along Hilder Street. Police observed the vehicle do a burnout at which stage they activated their lights and sirens in order to conduct a traffic stop. The vehicle failed to stop and a pursuit commenced until police lost sight of the vehicle on Hindmarsh Drive at which stage the pursuit was terminated.”

Here is the plain English version:

About 4.20pm a police patrol in Weston saw a Holden Commodore travelling at excessive speed along Hilder Street. Police saw the driver perform a burnout. They activated their lights and sirens to signal the driver to stop. The driver did not stop, and police pursued the Commodore until they lost sight of it on Hindmarsh Drive, when the pursuit was ended.

Took me about 30 seconds.

And it takes less than 30 seconds to see that your version doesn’t work. The pursuit was ‘ended’ how exactly? Did it end with the police shooting the offender? Did it end with the offender surrendering? Did it end when both cars burst into flames?

Tooks8:48 am 26 Jul 11

breda said :

OK, here is the semi-literate original:

“About 4.20pm police were on mobile patrol in Weston when they saw a Holden Commodore travelling at speed along Hilder Street. Police observed the vehicle do a burnout at which stage they activated their lights and sirens in order to conduct a traffic stop. The vehicle failed to stop and a pursuit commenced until police lost sight of the vehicle on Hindmarsh Drive at which stage the pursuit was terminated.”

Here is the plain English version:

About 4.20pm a police patrol in Weston saw a Holden Commodore travelling at excessive speed along Hilder Street. Police saw the driver perform a burnout. They activated their lights and sirens to signal the driver to stop. The driver did not stop, and police pursued the Commodore until they lost sight of it on Hindmarsh Drive, when the pursuit was ended.

Took me about 30 seconds.

As I’ve said to you before, why not pass your feedback onto the media team?

Sometimes the writing in these releases is a bit clunky and utilises too much police speak, but is there anyone here who misunderstood the media release? It was very clear to me on the first reading what occurred, which is the main point for a media release. For those with comprehension issues, Special G wrote an excellent translation guide 🙂

Tooks8:38 am 26 Jul 11

Pork Hunt said :

Tooks said :

watto23 said :

Who’d have thought the police used common sense to abort the chase rather than having a stupid law to govern it!!!

Most chases are aborted, boofhead.

Er Tooks… I think watto23 is on your side in this (as I am).

I realised that, but it was too late to delete it. Sorry watto23.

threepaws9:17 pm 25 Jul 11

breda said :

“About 4.20pm police were on mobile patrol in Weston when they saw a Holden Commodore travelling at speed along Hilder Street. Police observed the vehicle do a burnout at which stage they activated their lights and sirens in order to conduct a traffic stop. The vehicle failed to stop and a pursuit commenced until police lost sight of the vehicle on Hindmarsh Drive at which stage the pursuit was terminated.”
————————————————————————————
Another paragraph which schools could use as an example of how not to write clear, grammatical English:

– is there any kind of patrol other than the mobile variety?

– is there any way to travel other than ‘at speed’?

– PP has already mentioned the ‘observed do a burnout’ atrocity.

– ‘at which stage’ is gibberish in this sentence. Do they mean ‘when’?

– ‘activated their lights and sirens in order to conduct a traffic stop’ is also gibberish. I take it the objective was not to stop the traffic, just the one car. In any event, lights and sirens are not required ‘in order to’ conduct anything.

– another ‘at which stage’ presumably also meaning ‘when’, and of course

– the pompous and verbose use of ‘commenced’ and ‘terminated’ for started and stopped, or began and finished.

There is more, but you get the idea.

There must be at least one person in the media office who can write basic English – I have seen their work. But, there is at least one person who would have failed my sixth grade grammar test.

I think you will find that lights and sirens *are* required if police are trying to pull over a vehicle, how else would they do it? ‘At which stage’ spells out exactly when the police activated their lights and sirens – ‘when’ does not. ‘When’ could imply causality ie. police observed the vehicle do a burnout WHEN they activated their lights and sirens.

And as for the ‘pompous’ use of the word ‘terminated’, does ‘stopped’ really work in its place? Both cars ‘stopped’ for a man holding a sign at roadworks? Both cars ‘stopped’ because they couldn’t be bothered driving anymore? Or the actual police pursuit was terminated, with the offender continuing to drive his vehicle.

As for the second last line of the media release, I suspect you will find that it is correctly written, as those are the names used in police reports for the actual offences.

Police probably have to adhere to very specific guidelines on how their reports are written for when the case goes to court, AT WHICH STAGE a defence lawyer might get their client off on a technicality.

That’s how police and the AFP media team write, you knew what they meant, get over it.

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