2 November 2010

No parks for Crace or Casey?

| johnboy
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The Liberals’ Brendan Smyth is crying foul over what he sees to be secret plans to rob the people of Crace and Casey of green spaces.

In what some might take to be a crypto-homophopic dig at Labor’s Planning Minister Andrew Barr this is being presented as an attack on families.

“The revelation that ACTPLA and Minister Barr have secretly been developing major changes to the new Gungahlin suburbs of Crace and Casey looks like it means an end of the family home in a family friendly suburb for people in Gungahlin. In one move, Andrew Barr has taken away taken away their oval, and taken their backyards as well,” said Shadow Treasurer Brendan Smyth.

“In the new plans, the playing fields are gone, and hundreds of new dwellings will be crammed into the same space. No more kicking footy with the kids on the field, no more barbies in the back yard.

“Why have these suburbs changed halfway through the developments? Who made that decision? Why was the community not consulted and why was this not put forward when the suburbs where planned and sold to those people looking for a family home in a family friendly neighbourhood?

But it’s worth than that, it’s the end of the Australian dream:

“We’re not against greater density, but it has to be planned for, not sprung on people after they have bought in a new suburb. The decision and the process are both a disgrace. This secretive, underhanded move by ACTPLA and Minister Barr could turn the great Australian dream into a never-ending nightmare,” said Mr Smyth.

UPDATE: But wait! One release isn’t enough! Mr Smyth also wants Mr Barr to man up to families!

“I am calling on the Minister to show some guts. I am calling on the Minister to show the families of Gungahlin the same level of interest is showing the inner north. Come out of hiding and explain to the community why this is the right decision for the future of our city

“I look forward to hearing from Mr Barr soon,” Mr Smyth said.

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My brother lives in Zetland, a suburb which had arisen in Sydney from what was industrial and warehouse land just south of Redfern. So, from a residential point of view, it was basically a greenfield site.

Even with the cost of land close to the centre of Sydney, and the dodgyness of the NSW government, they get to have ovals and playing field.

My first post on this forum – and while there are the usual lot of turkeys who want to be negative just for the sake of it, I am pleased to see many posts from reasonable folks who recognise that we do have good facilities and environment in Gungahlin. Compare with many parts of outer Sydney or Melbourne and you wouldn’t want to live anywhere else! Duplication of Gundaroo Road, building Monash Drive, extending Clarrie Hermes Drive and the NBN fibre to all homes will make this a Paradise!

georgesgenitals10:48 am 04 Nov 10

This is what it seems govco wants to turn Crace into. Still, it’ll fit right in with the rest of Gunghetto.

Gungahlin Al9:41 am 04 Nov 10

I don’t believe so. Check out the original and then (unofficial) CIC concept plans here:
http://www.gcc.asn.au/News/Planning-development/crace-concept-ditched.html

The concept plan ( http://203.9.249.2/draft-tplan/pdf%20files/Folder%203/2%20Concept%20Plans/2.3%20Crace.pdf ) says:

6.4 Community Facilities
The Concept Plan identifies a community facility site adjacent to the local centre which provides good access to public transport, open space and reinforces a sense of community for the local residents. The site area of the facility will be approximately 6,000m². The actual size and use of this community facility site will be determined at a later stage, associated with estate development planning. The use of this site will be consistent with those permitted uses identified in the Territory Plan for Community Facilities Land Use Policy areas.
In addition, other possible community facility sites may be identified within the open space system for those facilities requiring a smaller land take, such as scout and community halls.
Demonstrated demand for the development of these sites will be established in later detailed planning stages and will need to be consistent with the Territory Plan.

There is also this, which is subject of the amendment:

6.5 Open Space Provision
The Crace Concept Plan contains a hierarchy of open spaces totalling about 48Ha serving
different purposes. The spaces are to be provided/ located generally in accordance with
Important Planning Requirements and the Concept Plan.
A neighbourhood playing field (basic sports unit) is also to be provided within the suburb and form part of the open space network. The location of the playing fields is shown in the Important Planning Requirement plan.

Growling Ferret8:00 am 04 Nov 10

Playing fields in high density residential are essential, and I can’t believe that Barr is getting away with their removal. If there are no playing fields in Crace, Palmerston Oval wwould become the next closest. GunAl – is there a school planned for Crace?

Now for all the slum talk, I hope a few of you watched Kevin McCleods excellent documentary on Dharavi, the slum of Mumbai (on iview if you want to watch it). Gungahlin might be high density living in comparison to the inner north and south of Canberra, but its a long way from a slum.

Want Australian slums? Catch the north going train from Melbourne to Epping – and the dilapidated houses backing on to rail corridors. Go to Redfern, Waterloo and other old inner suburban spots in Sydney. Polluted, overcrowded.

Interesting that today has plans in the CT for a 100m tall residential building in Woden. I’ll wait for the first ‘slum’ call for that…

Gungahlin Al10:39 pm 03 Nov 10

Oh and I’ve been asked to address a Canberra 2030 planning forum to be held by the Conservation Council Thursday night at Havelock House on exactly this sort of stuff.

Gungahlin Al10:38 pm 03 Nov 10

Interesting – two front page GCC stories in two weeks, with our comments all in the print editions. But nothing in the cut-down online stories both times…

The issue that seems to have escaped Brendan for this is that these two concept plan changes have the effect of precinct plan amendments. They have no place being stashed away inside a “Technical Amendment” and with just 2 weeks comment period. This is a tool to fast-track minor corrections of errors and largely inconsequential. It is also not in keeping with a commitment given to community councils to discuss significant upcoming amendments beforehand. Further, I have previously discussed with ACTPLA that amendments should clearly state both before and after texts. But there are a number of sections of this amendment that don’t do this, forcing a reader to then dig out the source docs in order to compare the effect of the changes. I’ve discussed all of these concerns with ACTPLA yesterday.

The issue of sports fields is a concern. As the amendment states, it is at the request of TAMS, as they have “changed the requirements”. This is interesting given that it was TAMS’ own study a few years ago that identified that if everything planned for Gungahlin was built, it would still be a 23 hectare shortfall of sports facilities compared to the rest of Canberra. It would seem that faced with such a reality, their solution was to change the requirements. Think about that when you are bitching about how much ‘stuff’ Gungahlin gets.

BTW both Casey and Crace are serviced by single lane roads out.

BTW2 I am not opposed to increased density. In fact no-one has pushed more for increased density in the way of planned apartment complexes in and around town and group centres, nd major transport routes. But this should be in return for reducing the plethora of sausage factory townhouses throughout suburbs, and this phoney war against the suburban backyard. We should not have to be millionaires to have enough yard space to grow veggies or give the kids a trampoline.

I have a cunning plan . . . put people off coming to live in the gorgeous Tuggeranong valley and we will keep our open spaces and get far less urban infill! So yeah, who wants to live in Tuggers, yah boo sux! (*Excellent!* rubs hands together)

PS, a ‘slum’ is defined as an overcrowded street or district inhabited by poor people. (Sounds like ‘affordable housing’ Gunghetto to me!)

Seriously though, the Government needs to have a long, hard look at themselves and get the social and financial into balance. It is currently seriously skewed to the coffer side of things, which makes them very poor managers of this fair city.

arescarti42 said :

I’d like to know why people think Gungahlin will be a future slum. I’d be putting bets on Tuggeranong,

It’s already a slum.

Just to get in on the suburb debate, it doesn’t get much better than Weetangera. 🙂

ThisIsAName said :

* Amend open space provisions to remove requirements for a neighbourhood playing field. As with Casey, minor changes to open space provisions respond to advice from Sport and Recreation Services (Department of Territory and Municipal Services) that a ***landscaped open space be provided for local recreation use instead of a neighbourhood playing field***.

Until they actually show us what the “landscaped open space” looks like, who can say if it’ll be any good?

In principle, I think it’s a great idea. Playing fields are pretty poor for anything other than playing sports that require a lot of space. And a lot of them aren’t even suitable for that — e.g., the surface on my local playing field is so bad that as far as I know no-one has had any sort of match on it in over a decade.

Brendan Smyth might be right about the Australian Dream if he means “all sport, all the time”, but I’d much rather have a nice space where I could sit in the sun and read the paper on a fine Saturday morning, since if I lived in Crace I would hardly have a back garden to do it in.

Enough space (and enough grass) to throw a frisbee around would be nice.

MG said :

http://www.actpla.act.gov.au/tools_resources/legislation_plans_registers/plans/territory_plan/current_technical_variations

No. 2010-31.

Looks like it’s true. Comments by 8 Nov.

Casey
? Increase the maximum number of dwellings permitted in the suburb from 1940
to 2600.
? Amend open space provisions to remove requirements for a standalone
playing field.

Crace
? Increase the maximum dwelling number for the suburb from 1200 to 1800
? Amend open space provisions to remove requirements for a neighbourhood
playing field.

Looks like the above post missed the points where the “neighbourhood playing field” would be replaced by “landscaped open space”. Quoting from from the link above, and just on Crace:

Crace concept plan amendments (items 23, 24 and 25)
The following changes are proposed to the Crace concept plan:
* Increase the maximum dwelling number for the suburb from 1200 to 1800, that is, an additional 600 dwellings. The additional dwellings are proposed to provide a range of affordable housing initiatives and housing typologies including multi unit and community title developments

* Amend open space provisions to remove requirements for a neighbourhood playing field. As with Casey, minor changes to open space provisions respond to advice from Sport and Recreation Services (Department of Territory and Municipal Services) that a ***landscaped open space be provided for local recreation use instead of a neighbourhood playing field***.

Maybe this leaves open further possibility for development potential & reducing the area of outdoor space in these suburbs?

well why did they originally plan for ovals if nooone wants them?

you can’t put an oval back in once you have a built up suburb.

sepi said :

If these are neighbouring suburbs it is a bit much to cancel both ovals.

And I still want to know what exactly will replace them.

how about something really innovative, like a kids playground with a little white picket fence around it, so that you can actually take more than one small child out to play and let them run around without worrying about the roads.

They’re not neighbouring suburbs. Crace is the bottom of Gungahlin (above Mitchell) and Casey is the top (next to Hall)

The main thing that bothers me is people that don’t even bother to look into things before slandering them. I mean both suburbs still have quite a bit of “green spaces.” Removing the ovals and putting a smaller park next to some apartments isn’t exactly going to turn the suburb into a slum.

The whole slum thing is ridiculous. Canberra doesn’t have any slums and isn’t likely to any time soon. It’s just people trying to make them feel better about where they live by picking on pretty much anything and everything different. Is it that surprising some people don’t want tiny houses on huge blocks and would prefer more manageable backyards? I guess not to some of you with such ridiculous tunnel vision.

Captain RAAF2:00 pm 03 Nov 10

SolarPowered said :

Sure, P1, but why? Why pick on any suburb at all? It is ridiculous. And you have to admit that the Gungahlin area cops it a fair bit on this site.

From my experience Gungahlin has a lot of interstate people. We have lived all over the place and Canberra just comes off as small minded when I read this shite. I love visiting this web site, but it just makes me sick to read all the geographic snobbery.

Mwah mwah mwaaaah!

If this makes you sick you need to either harden up or go play on news.com!

SolarPowered said :

Sure, P1, but why? Why pick on any suburb at all? It is ridiculous. And you have to admit that the Gungahlin area cops it a fair bit on this site.

Well, in my case, I have spent most of my time in Canberra in Belconnen and so am much more familiar with Gungahlin, and therefore more aware of its downsides (not comparing it to anywhere – every place has it’s downside). Personally I think that most of Gungahlin is nicer then most of the Tuggeranong Valley. For example in Tuggeranong I feel that the town centre is much more isolated from where people live, and not as compact and user friendly.

But I also think that the way new suburbs are being planned in this city has been getting worse. I am all for higher density housing, but think that it needs to be done in ways that don’t make suburbs worse to live in, and places like Crace… well, I guess we will know in 10-15 years.

The picking on is intended to be light hearted banter. Sledging each other about things which should not really be offensive is something of a tradition in this country. Sometime people go to far, or are intentionally mean about it. I’m not trying to be mean, and if I go too far I apologise.

We can still pick on Queanbeyan though yes?

arescarti42 said :

It is way further out, just look at a map. It is the only district in Canberra located further than 13km from the city.

Anyone who disputes the car dependency of Tuggeranong relative to the rest of Canberra needs to look at this public transportation map from the ABS. Tuggeranong has the lowest public transport usage of any area with the exception of Queanbeyan, which doesn’t have a subsidised bus system.
quote]

I think you are making pretty broad assumptions here that everyone works and commutes to the city from Tuggeranong. In fact I think you’ll find that a lot of people work locally in Tuggeranong and Woden areas and ‘shock’ Gunghalinites will even travel to Tuggeranong for work.

Regardless, this thread isn’t about which area of Canberra is better and IMHO the Tuggeranong and Gungahlin bashing should be discussed in a thread of its own.

If these are neighbouring suburbs it is a bit much to cancel both ovals.

And I still want to know what exactly will replace them.

how about something really innovative, like a kids playground with a little white picket fence around it, so that you can actually take more than one small child out to play and let them run around without worrying about the roads.

amarooresident3 said :

1. It’s Brendan Smyth so it is unlikely to be true.

2. If people are paying 450 grand plus for homes I’d suggest they are unlikely to be ‘slums’. Just normal everyday people trying to make a life for themselves and their families.

3. Finally, to all the Gungahlin haters – f*ck you.

http://www.actpla.act.gov.au/tools_resources/legislation_plans_registers/plans/territory_plan/current_technical_variations

No. 2010-31.

Looks like it’s true. Comments by 8 Nov.

Casey
? Increase the maximum number of dwellings permitted in the suburb from 1940
to 2600.
? Amend open space provisions to remove requirements for a standalone
playing field.

Crace
? Increase the maximum dwelling number for the suburb from 1200 to 1800
? Amend open space provisions to remove requirements for a neighbourhood
playing field.

SolarPowered1:28 pm 03 Nov 10

Sure, P1, but why? Why pick on any suburb at all? It is ridiculous. And you have to admit that the Gungahlin area cops it a fair bit on this site.

From my experience Gungahlin has a lot of interstate people. We have lived all over the place and Canberra just comes off as small minded when I read this shite. I love visiting this web site, but it just makes me sick to read all the geographic snobbery.

I don’t see the problem.

We have obviously given up on Canberra being a egalitarian society with all suburbs having at least the same basic amenity. The new suburbs are terrible, everyone should know this by now.

I’m over it, it may be shit but Gungahlin does serve a purpose. It helps keeps the prices down in established suburbs with bigger blocks. Bigger blocks that you can extend on and still have a garden.

If it was not for all the idiots buying 400m2-600m2 blocks outside of town, I could not afford my 1100m2 close to a town centre.

SolarPowered said :

It gets up my nose when I read all this vitriol against Gungahlin. Ooh, you have clever names for the area – aren’t you witty.

Don’t worry, I can pick on Belcompton, Shelbyville (you know, the town just over the border where people marry their cousins), the Tuggie Thuggies, prius driving commies of the inner north, and any other sub area of Canberra you care to define. As cmdwedge said,

cmdwedge said :

Don’t take it so personally. I’ve lived in both the north and the south and both had their advantages.

SolarPowered12:15 pm 03 Nov 10

It gets up my nose when I read all this vitriol against Gungahlin. Ooh, you have clever names for the area – aren’t you witty.

It is worse than Sydney East-West-North-South snobbery. By a long shot. As an outsider reading this shite, it makes all you Canberrans look like a bunch of petty school girls. Grow up you tossers.

amarooresident3 said :

cmdwedge said :

amarooresident3 said :

1. It’s Brendan Smyth so it is unlikely to be true.

2. If people are paying 450 grand plus for homes I’d suggest they are unlikely to be ‘slums’. Just normal everyday people trying to make a life for themselves and their families.

3. Finally, to all the Gungahlin haters – f*ck you.

1. Why?
2. In Canberra, $450K is not a lot. But loved the ‘little Aussie battler’ stuff.
3. Are you sad because you’re in the North? Understood. I lived in Ngunnawal…. once.

Nope I love where I live. I just don’t understand all the hate on Gungahlin. As for Brendan Smyth, my long observation of him is he gets it wrong more often than not, and if he isn’t wrong he tends to overcook whatever point he’s trying to make (the press release above is a classic example) so as to make it completely laughable.

I can’t argue on your point about Brendan Smyth, I feel that he’s very honest and upfront with people. However the point about Gungahlin is all just north/south banter. Don’t take it so personally. I’ve lived in both the north and the south and both had their advantages. No-one really HATES Gungahlin. It’s a postcode, not a state of mind.

Come friendly bombs and fall on Quangers.

amarooresident311:09 am 03 Nov 10

cmdwedge said :

amarooresident3 said :

1. It’s Brendan Smyth so it is unlikely to be true.

2. If people are paying 450 grand plus for homes I’d suggest they are unlikely to be ‘slums’. Just normal everyday people trying to make a life for themselves and their families.

3. Finally, to all the Gungahlin haters – f*ck you.

1. Why?
2. In Canberra, $450K is not a lot. But loved the ‘little Aussie battler’ stuff.
3. Are you sad because you’re in the North? Understood. I lived in Ngunnawal…. once.

Nope I love where I live. I just don’t understand all the hate on Gungahlin. As for Brendan Smyth, my long observation of him is he gets it wrong more often than not, and if he isn’t wrong he tends to overcook whatever point he’s trying to make (the press release above is a classic example) so as to make it completely laughable.

arescarti42 said :

It is way further out, just look at a map. It is the only district in Canberra located further than 13km from the city.

Banks to the City 26.9km (not that anyone would actually take Yamba Drive)

Moncrieff to the City 15.8km (a suburb I have never heard of)

So the deep south really is a lot further from the centre of the city then the Gunghetto. Like twice as far. So a rail live that basically goes GD»GDE»parkway then flows south to, say Tharwa would be pretty awesome. It wouldn’t need to go into the city, or along Nothbourne to Dickson. Put a terminal at Glenloch, run express buses to the city from there, same from the stop at Hindmarsh into Woden.

But hey, infrastructure really isn’t what we spend money on these days. It’s all about the art.

amarooresident3 said :

1. It’s Brendan Smyth so it is unlikely to be true.

2. If people are paying 450 grand plus for homes I’d suggest they are unlikely to be ‘slums’. Just normal everyday people trying to make a life for themselves and their families.

3. Finally, to all the Gungahlin haters – f*ck you.

1. Why?
2. In Canberra, $450K is not a lot. But loved the ‘little Aussie battler’ stuff.
3. Are you sad because you’re in the North? Understood. I lived in Ngunnawal…. once.

Keijidosha said :

Think that you’re getting open space? Crace will change that.

/like

miz said :

Arescarti42, you said ‘Tuggeranong, it is completely car dependent and way further out from the city than Gungahlin.’

Car dependent? Way further out? WRONG! I commute 25 mins on the bus from Chisholm to Barton a day, which has to be better than going the GDE, as most Gunghettoites do. AND I have pets, a vegie patch and a lovely garden in my decent-sized yard. I don’t hear my neighbours’ arguments or toilets flushing either. Frankly, low density rocks and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

But shhh – I don’t wish to tell anyone how great it is, or everyone will want to move here! PS I never need to go into to Civic, so, ‘care factor’ re proximity anyway.

It appears that a lot of northsiders have never actually been to Tuggers and have no idea.

I live in Gungahlin & frankly I wouldn’t have it any other way.
I have a pet, vegie pot plants on my balcony, & no grass/weeds to maintain. My neighbours never argue, and I have nice views into their bathroom window 😉

Wow – the ACT govt had it in for gardeners, and now they are against anyone who wants to walk their dog, teach kids to ride a bike or fly kites etc.

So – did Jon give up any info on what the ‘landscaped green space’ is actually going. Becuase for mine usually ‘landscaped’ is code for ‘look but don’t walk on it’ acres of tanbark or gravel and some rows of ugly grass-like plants.

On Tuggers – nice wide roads, big blocks, access to the river, fantastic views. A handful of km further out than the rest of canberra, but better roads in and less congested traffic. The main problem is people from northside won’t go there.

Think that you’re getting open space? Crace will change that.

miz said :

Arescarti42, you said ‘Tuggeranong, it is completely car dependent and way further out from the city than Gungahlin.’

Car dependent? Way further out? WRONG! I commute 25 mins on the bus from Chisholm to Barton a day, which has to be better than going the GDE, as most Gunghettoites do.no idea.

It is way further out, just look at a map. It is the only district in Canberra located further than 13km from the city.

Anyone who disputes the car dependency of Tuggeranong relative to the rest of Canberra needs to look at this public transportation map from the ABS. Tuggeranong has the lowest public transport usage of any area with the exception of Queanbeyan, which doesn’t have a subsidised bus system.

The express bus might get you to work in 25 minutes, but any other bus is going to take forever to cover the swath of suburbia and travel the massive distances to anywhere worth going.

Captain RAAF9:26 am 03 Nov 10

johnboy said :

It’s a worry if you have to be in an organised sports team to qualify as an oval user.

and that just being a dog walker etc isn’t good enough for a patch of grass to walk on…

So, hypothetically, on a sunny Saturday afternoon I want to take the kids down the oval to fly a kite, kick a footy, or do some other activity which takes more room then my back yard (let alone the tiny backyards of new suburbs). The multi oval locations will all will all be covered in under twelve’s football, hockey of something of the like will they not? I assume I’ll be able to get them to give up half the oval so I can fly my kite?

I heard John Stanhope on the radio this morning about this. People who have bought in Crace 1, 2 and 3 are not affected in any way he says (I don’t know enough about the issue to comment).

Crace 4 – which has not yet been sold, is the only part that these changes affect. Basically, he talked about the number of single ovals around the place that don’t get used (eg school ovals and the like) and that its not worth having a single one cos it won’t be used by serious sports clubs and will end up just being a blank bit of land for dog walkers etc.

It’s a worry if you have to be in an organised sports team to qualify as an oval user.

Common Sense8:58 am 03 Nov 10

Luther_bendros said “If you can’t read a planning map don’t buy a house.”

The point is that Andrew Barr has changed the plans after people bought the land.

amarooresident38:36 am 03 Nov 10

1. It’s Brendan Smyth so it is unlikely to be true.

2. If people are paying 450 grand plus for homes I’d suggest they are unlikely to be ‘slums’. Just normal everyday people trying to make a life for themselves and their families.

3. Finally, to all the Gungahlin haters – f*ck you.

Anyway what are you all complaining about, Gungahlin is the first place to receive the NBN in Canberra, whilst us poor sods living on 1000 sqm plus blocks of land backing a reserve and with parks at the end of the street and ovals on the next corner have to deal with ADSL connections.
What an outrage.

Arescarti42, you said ‘Tuggeranong, it is completely car dependent and way further out from the city than Gungahlin.’

Car dependent? Way further out? WRONG! I commute 25 mins on the bus from Chisholm to Barton a day, which has to be better than going the GDE, as most Gunghettoites do. AND I have pets, a vegie patch and a lovely garden in my decent-sized yard. I don’t hear my neighbours’ arguments or toilets flushing either. Frankly, low density rocks and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

But shhh – I don’t wish to tell anyone how great it is, or everyone will want to move here! PS I never need to go into to Civic, so, ‘care factor’ re proximity anyway.

It appears that a lot of northsiders have never actually been to Tuggers and have no idea.

Captain RAAF7:49 am 03 Nov 10

gospeedygo said :

Captain RAAF said :

I live in Ngunnawal, I can see a shit load of green from my window and it goes for quite a way.

Of course you can, that’s what blinkers are for! I lived in Ngunnawal also mate and had fine views, access to nice parks etc but the natives that lived on the border were growing restless and the signs of impending doom appeared more frequently, so I packed up the wagon and got the hell out of Dodge!

One thing i’ll hand to the filth, they don’t shit in their own nest, so the slum dwellers of Crace, Casey, Forde, and Gungers will find their fun somewhere nearby so Ngungers, Amaroo and Nicholls watch out!

And before someone gets on here and says “If you look at the crime rates for such and such….and every suburb has it’s filth etc etc..” remember, that’s the situation now, give it 5 years it will be a totally different story.

georgesgenitals7:49 am 03 Nov 10

If true, this is a real shame. I’m not a fan of Crace (or indeed Gungahlin), but this was an opportunity to try something new, and although not my cup of tea it could have been really nice for a lot of people. This sort of behaviour by government really stuffs things up, though.

captainwhorebags7:48 am 03 Nov 10

More housing blocks = more stamp duty revenue. It’s not just the developers making a motza from this.

Captain RAAF said :

Gungahlin region is basically a refugee camp built on the sly. We’ll all be reading about that area, for all the wrong reasons, for decades to come.

+1

Chop71 said :

WOW, this is a shocker. When you only have on average 400m blocks and then they take away your park or oval to build more houses ….grr

I’m happy to be corrected, but from what I’ve read, it sounds like the oval is being replaced with “landscaped open space for local recreation”, not additional houses. I suspect they might be making blocks smaller to fit in the additional homes, or increasing the townhouse to detached house ratio.

I’d like to know why people think Gungahlin will be a future slum. I’d be putting bets on Tuggeranong, it is completely car dependent and way further out from the city than Gungahlin.

Chop71 said :

Do you guys reckon they will try too move the ACT border North or West for future development or keep building south of Tuggies? Are there any plans for the next satelite city? (I hope not under the airport)

maybe we might even get light rail before they invent a teleporter

The next satellite city will be Molonglo, north of Weston and south of Belconnen. Between Molonglo and Gungahlin, there is probably capacity for another 20 or 30 years.

After that, Kowen Forest in the east is earmarked for 8000-28000 homes (i.e. 20,000-80,000 people).

As far as a rail system in the short to medium term, as long as Stanhope is in government, I don’t think there’s a chance.

Do you guys reckon they will try too move the ACT border North or West for future development or keep building south of Tuggies? Are there any plans for the next satelite city? (I hope not under the airport)

maybe we might even get light rail before they invent a teleporter

WOW, this is a shocker. When you only have on average 400m blocks and then they take away your park or oval to build more houses ….grr

I guess the saying “they don’t build em like they used too” stands true for block sizes and established houses too.

This is terrible! I thought the whole point of high density / sustainable suburbs was to have plenty of community space for exercise and team sports etc, as people will not have backyards.

What happened to ‘walkability’ John? Looks like Gungahlinites will all be driving to Dickson oval….

Captain RAAF said :

Anyone who bought in Crace or Casey with the expectation of having large parks and other green areas to ‘play’ in must have signed on the bottom line without ever taking a look at the surrounding neighborhoods.

Gungahlin region is basically a refugee camp built on the sly. We’ll all be reading about that area, for all the wrong reasons, for decades to come.

Glad I got out when I did.

I live in Ngunnawal, I can see a shit load of green from my window and it goes for quite a way.

they did the same in Forde, 700 blocks became 1200, the big question is if a large amount of money is being exchanged to increase the density from the original purchase of the land or is this a normal way for the developers to make 3 times more and make the desperate homebuyers live in slums

Captain RAAF said :

Gungahlin region is basically a refugee camp built on the sly. We’ll all be reading about that area, for all the wrong reasons, for decades to come. Glad I got out when I did.

+1

I’m waiting for the government to install a tall electric fence around that area.

Captain RAAF, any chance on having the place re-zoned as a bomb testing range for our wonderful Air Force? 🙂

I’ll have to admit complete ignorance on this – what is “a crypto-homophopic dig”? Is there something about the gay community and backyards?

luther_bendross6:57 pm 02 Nov 10

Captain RAAF said :

Anyone who bought in Crace or Casey with the expectation of having large parks and other green areas to ‘play’ in must have signed on the bottom line without ever taking a look at the surrounding neighborhoods.

+1

It was fairly obvious what Crace and Casey we to become, and Forde to follow. If you want a backyard and room to move, take your $450k+ and move somewhere that’s not Gungahlin. If you can’t read a planning map don’t buy a house.

I see the renters are persisting in their Gungahlin commentary

Gunghalin – Canberra’s own Sadr City.

I wonder if Andy will have a little cry about this round of criticism on Facebook too?

Captain RAAF5:44 pm 02 Nov 10

Anyone who bought in Crace or Casey with the expectation of having large parks and other green areas to ‘play’ in must have signed on the bottom line without ever taking a look at the surrounding neighborhoods.

Gungahlin region is basically a refugee camp built on the sly. We’ll all be reading about that area, for all the wrong reasons, for decades to come.

Glad I got out when I did.

Common Sense5:31 pm 02 Nov 10

If I had bought in Crace or Casey I’d be pretty unhappy with Andrew Barr right now. What has this government got against Gungahlin?

More room for McMansions and faux-Tuscan villas. What’s not to like?

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