15 January 2014

"No such thing as GIVING someone a trailer in the ACT"

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Just want to sanity check something, please, before I go on and kick up a stink with our friends at Canberra Connect. My mum has given me her trailer. It’s a standard small trailer, from 1978. It probably needs a new floor. Currently, it’s registered in Victoria.

When I rang to ask about the process for transferring the rego, I was told that I would need to bring the purchase receipt with me. I noted there was no receipt as I hadn’t purchased it. No money has changed hands.

The person I spoke with insisted (quite rudely) that there is “no such thing as giving someone a trailer in the ACT”, and that duty must be paid.

Forgive my ignorance and lack of research, but this seems weird to me. Why is the government asking me to lie in official documents in order to collect probably $18 (at most) in duty?

 

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PantsMan said :

Maybe here http://rego.act.gov.au/registrations/regomoveunreg.htm, where it says:
“NO, UNLESS CURRENT ROAD WORTHY INSPECTION REPORT IS PRESENTED. INTERSTATE INSPECTION REPORTS WILL BE ACCEPTED IN THIS SCENARIO.

Oh, and here is says that I don’t need registration at all if it’s only being moved to the purpose of obtaining registration: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/act/consol_reg/rtrr2000478/s22.html Must have CTP, however, but the ACT Government will only provide you that (for an exorbitant fee) if you buy the entirely redundant UVP too. Then they tell you that what you purchases in not a CTP policy; you just paid a tax to them.

Money for nothing to the ACT Government, yay!

OK, I will concede on the inspection certificate. There has obviously been a change in policy and I missed it. The only time they would accept an interstate inspection when I worked there was when a car was new or near new being purchased interstate. You could by prior arrangement purchase 3 months of registration, take the plates with you and have a registered car. It then had to be inspected at Dickson to confirm what the vehicle was and that it was roadworthy. Or if it was a heavy vehicle working outside the ACT temporarily and it could not get back for its bi-annual inspection.

BUT, despite what they say on the website, I would say that this is not actually set in the Act or the Regs. Acts and Regs (in particular Acts) tend not to be so descriptive in circumstance. What they say on the webpage may only be something they do out of courtesy and they can refuse if its not set in the regulations. There are quite a few government departments who run circulars to administer regulations.

On the UVP, despite what you were “told” it is CTP, it is stated quite clearly that it is. They are not really interested in the registration component because the law says that a vehicle must have CTP to be permitted to drive on the road. By issuing a UVP they are supplying what they legally have to.

Was your vehicle still currently covered by CTP? As it says in the info and section 4 of Reg 22, to be able to drive without “registration provisions” it must still be covered by CTP. No CTP, no driving without a UVP.

You think its revenue raising and money for nothing? How would you go if you had an accident and injured someone? What then?

$22 is cheap insurance and is never meant to be compared to yearly registration.

^^^ hehehe, well they /know/ how much you enjoy queuing…we should thank them for allowing us to do so without achieving our goals!

Rollersk8r said :

Bought a car and wrote my name and my wife’s name as the registered drivers on the form. She forgot to sign the form before I took it in – and so I thought it doesn’t matter, will just cross her name out and I’ll be the only one registered. No! Can’t do that! Once someone’s name is on the form they HAVE TO sign it, no exceptions – go away and come back another day.

I know, its awful when they dont allow you to just change a legal document without the permission of the other people in the document.

You realise that removing her from the form meant that she was being deprived of her share of the asset – you were taking 1/2 the value of the car away from her? Would you try to do that on your next house transfer?

zorro29 said :

Totally agree with you buddy.

Here’s another nonsense (aka revenue-raising example):
My partner sold his car and we are now sharing a car…so I wanted to have the car in both our names. My name would stay on the rego, just wanted to add his. I was told that was essentially a sale and he would have to pay duty on that…when the car was still worth $40k, there was no way I was coming at that.

Nonsense. Agree with the above….would be interesting to see what would happen with the scenario in #1 and a negative amount.

It just annoys me that they make it so hard/punish people doing the right thing…and we wonder why all the bogans never register anything or bother paying fines. Maybe we’re the crazy ones.

I can beat that.

Bought a car and wrote my name and my wife’s name as the registered drivers on the form. She forgot to sign the form before I took it in – and so I thought it doesn’t matter, will just cross her name out and I’ll be the only one registered. No! Can’t do that! Once someone’s name is on the form they HAVE TO sign it, no exceptions – go away and come back another day.

KB1971 said :

On number one, where does it say here: http://www.rego.act.gov.au/registrations/regotransferr.htm or here: http://www.rego.act.gov.au/licensing/licencemoveact.htm that they will accept an interstate registration inspection slip? It quite clearly says that you need an inspection at Dickson or at an authorized ACT examiner. It has always been like this.

Number 2 & 3: Here: http://www.rego.act.gov.au/registrations/regomoveunreg.htm it quite clearly states that a UVP provides TPI. It has always been like this.

Oh and you cant drive to the nearest rego station in the ACT unregistered, that is a NSW rule that I was answering a question which was previously asked. It has always been like this.

Now, you have just proven that you didn’t do any research before you went and really need to do better next time.

Maybe here http://rego.act.gov.au/registrations/regomoveunreg.htm, where it says:
“NO, UNLESS CURRENT ROAD WORTHY INSPECTION REPORT IS PRESENTED. INTERSTATE INSPECTION REPORTS WILL BE ACCEPTED IN THIS SCENARIO.

Oh, and here is says that I don’t need registration at all if it’s only being moved to the purpose of obtaining registration: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/act/consol_reg/rtrr2000478/s22.html Must have CTP, however, but the ACT Government will only provide you that (for an exorbitant fee) if you buy the entirely redundant UVP too. Then they tell you that what you purchases in not a CTP policy; you just paid a tax to them.

Money for nothing to the ACT Government, yay!

PantsMan said :

1. In facts, I was whinging about them not accepting a NSW inspection report and refusing to give me a weekly permit and forcing me to pay $40+ 12 hour permit (totally contrary to what they say on their website). Short of taking legal action against these pricks, you basically have to cop their arbitrary actions and extortion of money. This is despite the Human Rights Act 2004 and all the Labor Mates that they have employed in the human rights industry.
2. While you can drive the most direct route to nearest inspection station without an Unregistered Vehicle Permit (UVP), it is still an offence to drive without third pay insurance. The ACT Government is the only provider of insurance in this context, and they refuse to provide insurance on its own, therefore you have to get the UVP and the insurance together.
3. I have been formally advised that the ‘insurance’ is not, in fact, insurance and it is merely a fee payable to the ACT Government to offset the risk to it. The annualised rate they charge is $14,000+, so they are obviously pretty bad at managing risk.
4. You are correct. I could purchase 4 permits at a cost of over $200 for one month’s driving. I do not want to pay the ACT Government $200 in return for close to nothing.
5. You are also correct that I could choose not own a car and either ride on bikeways or catch the worst public transport system in Australia. These outcomes would reflect a triumph for the ACT’s “deindustrialise of the western world and introduce socialism under the guise of climate change” agenda.

On number one, where does it say here: http://www.rego.act.gov.au/registrations/regotransferr.htm or here: http://www.rego.act.gov.au/licensing/licencemoveact.htm that they will accept an interstate registration inspection slip? It quite clearly says that you need an inspection at Dickson or at an authorized ACT examiner. It has always been like this.

Number 2 & 3: Here: http://www.rego.act.gov.au/registrations/regomoveunreg.htm it quite clearly states that a UVP provides TPI. It has always been like this.

Oh and you cant drive to the nearest rego station in the ACT unregistered, that is a NSW rule that I was answering a question which was previously asked. It has always been like this.

Now, you have just proven that you didn’t do any research before you went and really need to do better next time.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd12:07 pm 20 Jan 14

PantsMan said :

KB1971 said :

Yep, but Pants Man was whinging about having to get a weekly permit with the NSW registration certificate.

The rule is to drive to the place of inspection and back again to get an inspection done….by the most direct route.

In the ACT you need a permit no matter what and despite what he alleges he was told it is for third party insurance. Once you have a certificate that is either passed or has minor things that need to be repaired he can then go and get a 1 week permit to drive the car wherever he wants in the ACT. He can get 4 of these.

You cant do that in NSW.

To be honest, the system here in the ACT is pretty good, people like Pants Man just need to take a pill and try to understand rather than carrying on like a 2 year old that has had his lollipop taken from him.

It has always cost money to own a car, if you don’t like it don’t own one.

1. In facts, I was whinging about them not accepting a NSW inspection report and refusing to give me a weekly permit and forcing me to pay $40+ 12 hour permit (totally contrary to what they say on their website). Short of taking legal action against these pricks, you basically have to cop their arbitrary actions and extortion of money. This is despite the Human Rights Act 2004 and all the Labor Mates that they have employed in the human rights industry.
2. While you can drive the most direct route to nearest inspection station without an Unregistered Vehicle Permit (UVP), it is still an offence to drive without third pay insurance. The ACT Government is the only provider of insurance in this context, and they refuse to provide insurance on its own, therefore you have to get the UVP and the insurance together.
3. I have been formally advised that the ‘insurance’ is not, in fact, insurance and it is merely a fee payable to the ACT Government to offset the risk to it. The annualised rate they charge is $14,000+, so they are obviously pretty bad at managing risk.
4. You are correct. I could purchase 4 permits at a cost of over $200 for one month’s driving. I do not want to pay the ACT Government $200 in return for close to nothing.
5. You are also correct that I could choose not own a car and either ride on bikeways or catch the worst public transport system in Australia. These outcomes would reflect a triumph for the ACT’s “deindustrialise of the western world and introduce socialism under the guise of climate change” agenda.

Tell me about this socialist green agenda plz

KB1971 said :

Yep, but Pants Man was whinging about having to get a weekly permit with the NSW registration certificate.

The rule is to drive to the place of inspection and back again to get an inspection done….by the most direct route.

In the ACT you need a permit no matter what and despite what he alleges he was told it is for third party insurance. Once you have a certificate that is either passed or has minor things that need to be repaired he can then go and get a 1 week permit to drive the car wherever he wants in the ACT. He can get 4 of these.

You cant do that in NSW.

To be honest, the system here in the ACT is pretty good, people like Pants Man just need to take a pill and try to understand rather than carrying on like a 2 year old that has had his lollipop taken from him.

It has always cost money to own a car, if you don’t like it don’t own one.

1. In facts, I was whinging about them not accepting a NSW inspection report and refusing to give me a weekly permit and forcing me to pay $40+ 12 hour permit (totally contrary to what they say on their website). Short of taking legal action against these pricks, you basically have to cop their arbitrary actions and extortion of money. This is despite the Human Rights Act 2004 and all the Labor Mates that they have employed in the human rights industry.
2. While you can drive the most direct route to nearest inspection station without an Unregistered Vehicle Permit (UVP), it is still an offence to drive without third pay insurance. The ACT Government is the only provider of insurance in this context, and they refuse to provide insurance on its own, therefore you have to get the UVP and the insurance together.
3. I have been formally advised that the ‘insurance’ is not, in fact, insurance and it is merely a fee payable to the ACT Government to offset the risk to it. The annualised rate they charge is $14,000+, so they are obviously pretty bad at managing risk.
4. You are correct. I could purchase 4 permits at a cost of over $200 for one month’s driving. I do not want to pay the ACT Government $200 in return for close to nothing.
5. You are also correct that I could choose not own a car and either ride on bikeways or catch the worst public transport system in Australia. These outcomes would reflect a triumph for the ACT’s “deindustrialise of the western world and introduce socialism under the guise of climate change” agenda.

Pork Hunt said :

KB1971 said :

PantsMan said :

I agree this is just total crap from the entity somewhat strangely referred to as “Road User Services”.

I recently purchased a second hand car with a valid NSW rego inspection. All said and done, all the fees and taxes ended up costing me about $1,000.

On the website they said “We will give you a one week Unregistered Vehicle Permit if you have an interstate inspection report”. Applied for that, and got the “Sorry, computer says no” answer . Got to spend extra money getting two permits! Fun!

Then they charged me $21 for 12 hours of “third party insurance”, which works out at $14,000 per year. When pressed, they said “It’s not actually insurance, it just a fee payable to the ACT.” I presume they talk about user pays and all that, but then just make up random fees because they known can just extort it from you in the end.

On car transfers, there is even a $48 (or something) fee to facilitate the payment of the tax. Is this India? Why am I paying a fee (bribe) to pay a my tax?

ACT Government = total pricks.

Or you could try that in NSW where they won’t give you a permit for a week to use the vehicle as you please. For up to a month even in case you can’t get your s### together and have that $1000 crap box fixed in time.
You are right, they are a bunch of pricks……

Happy to be corrected on this, but in NSW one can drive ones unreg vehicle to a place of inspection or the rego office sans permit.

Yep, but Pants Man was whinging about having to get a weekly permit with the NSW registration certificate.

The rule is to drive to the place of inspection and back again to get an inspection done….by the most direct route.

In the ACT you need a permit no matter what and despite what he alleges he was told it is for third party insurance. Once you have a certificate that is either passed or has minor things that need to be repaired he can then go and get a 1 week permit to drive the car wherever he wants in the ACT. He can get 4 of these.

You cant do that in NSW.

To be honest, the system here in the ACT is pretty good, people like Pants Man just need to take a pill and try to understand rather than carrying on like a 2 year old that has had his lollipop taken from him.

It has always cost money to own a car, if you don’t like it don’t own one.

KB1971 said :

PantsMan said :

I agree this is just total crap from the entity somewhat strangely referred to as “Road User Services”.

I recently purchased a second hand car with a valid NSW rego inspection. All said and done, all the fees and taxes ended up costing me about $1,000.

On the website they said “We will give you a one week Unregistered Vehicle Permit if you have an interstate inspection report”. Applied for that, and got the “Sorry, computer says no” answer . Got to spend extra money getting two permits! Fun!

Then they charged me $21 for 12 hours of “third party insurance”, which works out at $14,000 per year. When pressed, they said “It’s not actually insurance, it just a fee payable to the ACT.” I presume they talk about user pays and all that, but then just make up random fees because they known can just extort it from you in the end.

On car transfers, there is even a $48 (or something) fee to facilitate the payment of the tax. Is this India? Why am I paying a fee (bribe) to pay a my tax?

ACT Government = total pricks.

Or you could try that in NSW where they won’t give you a permit for a week to use the vehicle as you please. For up to a month even in case you can’t get your s### together and have that $1000 crap box fixed in time.
You are right, they are a bunch of pricks……

Happy to be corrected on this, but in NSW one can drive ones unreg vehicle to a place of inspection or the rego office sans permit.

It is 3%. Just put down a value of $50 and pay up the $1.50. Pay them in 5c coins if you really want to be difficult about it.

So how much in salary would it cost to collect this lousy $1.50, I wonder?

Elf said :

This is to stop you stealing a trailer and having it registered in your name and therefore legally yours. Think about it, I steal this trailer off you and register in my name by simply saying my mum gave it to me!

Not really. You’ll still need some evidence of the transfer occurring, the issue is more with paying duties on a gift.

Sandman said :

Oh no! The government requires me to do exactly the same thing as they require everyone else to do and it’s not fair!

My issue is that other States and Territories take this into consideration. QLD, for example, allows a family exemption on stamp duty if the vehicle has been gifted and they fit into the ‘family’ category (spouse, parents, grandparents, children, mix of spouse’s parents/grandparents/children – oddly though, siblings aren’t counted as family..). Why does the ACT think a similar exemption isn’t appropriate here?

gazket said :

tell them you paid $100 it will cost you $3 in stamp duty for lying. They need the $3 to water the trees.

No, they need the money to chop down the trees to make room for the tramline. Will you be able to hook up your trailer to the back of the tram?

PantsMan said :

I agree this is just total crap from the entity somewhat strangely referred to as “Road User Services”.

I recently purchased a second hand car with a valid NSW rego inspection. All said and done, all the fees and taxes ended up costing me about $1,000.

On the website they said “We will give you a one week Unregistered Vehicle Permit if you have an interstate inspection report”. Applied for that, and got the “Sorry, computer says no” answer . Got to spend extra money getting two permits! Fun!

Then they charged me $21 for 12 hours of “third party insurance”, which works out at $14,000 per year. When pressed, they said “It’s not actually insurance, it just a fee payable to the ACT.” I presume they talk about user pays and all that, but then just make up random fees because they known can just extort it from you in the end.

On car transfers, there is even a $48 (or something) fee to facilitate the payment of the tax. Is this India? Why am I paying a fee (bribe) to pay a my tax?

ACT Government = total pricks.

Or you could try that in NSW where they won’t give you a permit for a week to use the vehicle as you please. For up to a month even in case you can’t get your s### together and have that $1000 crap box fixed in time.
You are right, they are a bunch of pricks……

I agree this is just total crap from the entity somewhat strangely referred to as “Road User Services”.

I recently purchased a second hand car with a valid NSW rego inspection. All said and done, all the fees and taxes ended up costing me about $1,000.

On the website they said “We will give you a one week Unregistered Vehicle Permit if you have an interstate inspection report”. Applied for that, and got the “Sorry, computer says no” answer . Got to spend extra money getting two permits! Fun!

Then they charged me $21 for 12 hours of “third party insurance”, which works out at $14,000 per year. When pressed, they said “It’s not actually insurance, it just a fee payable to the ACT.” I presume they talk about user pays and all that, but then just make up random fees because they known can just extort it from you in the end.

On car transfers, there is even a $48 (or something) fee to facilitate the payment of the tax. Is this India? Why am I paying a fee (bribe) to pay a my tax?

ACT Government = total pricks.

Felix the Cat6:20 am 19 Jan 14

Elf said :

This is to stop you stealing a trailer and having it registered in your name and therefore legally yours. Think about it, I steal this trailer off you and register in my name by simply saying my mum gave it to me!

Do trailers have serial/chassis numbers? If so the rego staff couldsurely punch this number into the computer and it would come up with details of current owner, say Mary Bloggs and then you whip out your ID showing you are John Bloggs and so “my mum gave it to me” story is pretty much confirmed.

It seems to me the duty is just a revenue raiser.

gooterz said :

Mordd said :

When my mum gave me her old car, I had her write me out a proper receipt (on some random printer paper) and list the sale price as zero dollars on the receipt. I took that to Canberra Connect and they had no issue at all transferring the rego to my name with that receipt for $0.00 – go figure

Technically a gift because there was no consideration.

So what’s the issue with the trailer then? The title clearly says “giving” someone a trailer, not selling someone a trailer, so can’t the person just do the same, and make a receipt for zero dollars and use that? I’m confused…

Mordd said :

When my mum gave me her old car, I had her write me out a proper receipt (on some random printer paper) and list the sale price as zero dollars on the receipt. I took that to Canberra Connect and they had no issue at all transferring the rego to my name with that receipt for $0.00 – go figure

Technically a gift because there was no consideration.

When my mum gave me her old car, I had her write me out a proper receipt (on some random printer paper) and list the sale price as zero dollars on the receipt. I took that to Canberra Connect and they had no issue at all transferring the rego to my name with that receipt for $0.00 – go figure

Additionally, you’ll also need a roadworthy inspection. If it needs a new floor then the angst you’ve encountered so far will pale in comparison with what’s to come.

Oh no! The government requires me to do exactly the same thing as they require everyone else to do and it’s not fair!
Taxes, Levies and Duties have been around for thousands of years, and they help society to function. Sure, occasionally someone is slightly put out but if allowances are made for them that opens up loopholes for everyone else to take advantage of (and many will). Just put $100 on the receipt and pay your $3, instead of debating semantics with one of Canberra’s lower paid public servants who has no personal interest in the technicalities of an enquiry that reaches beyond the boundaries of a computer system that they don’t have the authority to override.

Threeletteracronym said :

ps I know I could have subsequently looked up the regs etc but I have a newborn and therefore much better things to do with my time

But you still have plenty of time to have a whinge on the internet.

Threeletteracronym said :

Thanks all – very interesting discussion, as always!

The thing that gives me the sh1ts the most, I think, apart from the govt asking me to lie, is that if the rude cow had taken the time to explain where the law or regs are that state the requirement, I would have had a look at those and no doubt been somewhat mollified. I mean, srsly, there’s a fairly high percentage chance that I’m a public servant that deals with regs etc on a daily basis – at least do me the courtesy of allowing that I may have the intellectual capacity to deal with that, instead of just doggedly repeating that there’s no such thing as giving someone a trailer.

Arsehats.

ps I know I could have subsequently looked up the regs etc but I have a newborn and therefore much better things to do with my time

If you are a public servant who deals with legislation on a daily basis you would know that every government has a legislative register and that all this legislation is a matter of public record.

All the legislation for the ACT is on the net and really easy to find.

As a public servant you would also know that there are regulations and procedures in place that may not make sense on the face of it but there is usually a good reason as to why they are there. You should be more accepting of a fellow public servant who has to deal with trying to explain this stuff to people day in day out.

Maybe you are the arsehat?

This is to stop you stealing a trailer and having it registered in your name and therefore legally yours. Think about it, I steal this trailer off you and register in my name by simply saying my mum gave it to me!

They do have rude and unhelpful people at the motor registry. One told me that the only way to register a car in Canberra if you don’t own a house or have your name on the electricity bill was to put foxtel on so that you get your name on a service connected to a residence.

Idiots.

farout said :

Or better still, put in a negative value, something line -$200, and take it to a CC saying she paid you to take it away. If you’re lucky the system will give YOU some money.

I like it. But no doubt the tax office will charge you tax on the income.

Threeletteracronym2:20 pm 18 Jan 14

Thanks all – very interesting discussion, as always!

The thing that gives me the sh1ts the most, I think, apart from the govt asking me to lie, is that if the rude cow had taken the time to explain where the law or regs are that state the requirement, I would have had a look at those and no doubt been somewhat mollified. I mean, srsly, there’s a fairly high percentage chance that I’m a public servant that deals with regs etc on a daily basis – at least do me the courtesy of allowing that I may have the intellectual capacity to deal with that, instead of just doggedly repeating that there’s no such thing as giving someone a trailer.

Arsehats.

ps I know I could have subsequently looked up the regs etc but I have a newborn and therefore much better things to do with my time

zorro29 said :

I don’t see how it does….car values are pretty clear-cut. I don’t think people publish the list of sale prices registered with the govt when they sell the car. And do the govt report on the value of vehicles on the road??? It’s just a revenue source.

Property prices are actually kinda the same….anything is only worth what the market will pay for it, so what does it matter what you paid for it.

But maybe I’m missing something in my blind hatred of duties…

Yeah, you are right when the house or vehicle is sold in the market ie as a result of a legitimate competitive sale – then the value is the sale price.

But the OP example (and my example) are for items sold not in the market but through private arrangements. The law requires duty at ‘market value’ in these circumstances. Or, for vehicles, I imagine something that looks roughly legitimate rather than via a formal valuation eg the $50 suggested (whatever is the amount that results in the minimum duty).

Genie said :

Even my mother had to pay stamp duty (again) on the house when removing ex-hubby’s name from the title. Even though again no money changed hands.

There is an exemption for change of names on title following a court order eg after a divorce (I believe formal court order includes a court approved separation agreement). So she shouldnt have had to pay duty. If she did, and it was by mistake, it may be refundable.

zorro29 said :

dtc said :

I don’t see how it does….car values are pretty clear-cut.

except if your a Labor politician you seem to get $15k under market value deals on a new Volkswagen Tourag.

tell them you paid $100 it will cost you $3 in stamp duty for lying. They need the $3 to water the trees.

Antagonist said :

zorro29 said :

But maybe I’m missing something in my blind hatred of duties…

I hate them also, but you are indeed missing something. Stamp duty payable for vehicles is based on actual price paid or market value, whichever is *greater*. Even if the trailer was handed over as a freebie as per the OP, ACT Govco are going to slap you for whatever the deem is ‘market value’.

Sucks, because I though the idea of declaring a negative value was a great workaround 🙂

Isn’t that what’s called “negative gearing”?

IP

Last time i exchanged rego i intentionally left the purchase price blank – the kind lady behind the counter hinted that “nobody really checks the market value” so I wrote down $1000. Paid stamp duty on $1k, not $20,000 – winning.

zorro29 said :

But maybe I’m missing something in my blind hatred of duties…

I hate them also, but you are indeed missing something. Stamp duty payable for vehicles is based on actual price paid or market value, whichever is *greater*. Even if the trailer was handed over as a freebie as per the OP, ACT Govco are going to slap you for whatever the deem is ‘market value’.

Sucks, because I though the idea of declaring a negative value was a great workaround 🙂

dtc said :

There is a valid reason for this. The whole duty system fails if the buyer and the seller – whether legitimately or not – declare the value of the item sold at under market value on the contract.

For example, say your parents own an investment property and then decide to let you buy it for 70% of the market value as your first home. Should you pay stamp duty on the amount you paid or the market value?

There is no difference with vehicles, except of course the amounts involved are much smaller. But the prinicple remains.

I don’t see how it does….car values are pretty clear-cut. I don’t think people publish the list of sale prices registered with the govt when they sell the car. And do the govt report on the value of vehicles on the road??? It’s just a revenue source.

Property prices are actually kinda the same….anything is only worth what the market will pay for it, so what does it matter what you paid for it.

But maybe I’m missing something in my blind hatred of duties…

dtc said :

There is a valid reason for this. The whole duty system fails if the buyer and the seller – whether legitimately or not – declare the value of the item sold at under market value on the contract.

For example, say your parents own an investment property and then decide to let you buy it for 70% of the market value as your first home. Should you pay stamp duty on the amount you paid or the market value?

There is no difference with vehicles, except of course the amounts involved are much smaller. But the prinicple remains.

I imagine as stamp duty is one of the revenue streams available to the ACT government, they’d be pretty keen to defend it.

There is a valid reason for this. The whole duty system fails if the buyer and the seller – whether legitimately or not – declare the value of the item sold at under market value on the contract.

For example, say your parents own an investment property and then decide to let you buy it for 70% of the market value as your first home. Should you pay stamp duty on the amount you paid or the market value?

There is no difference with vehicles, except of course the amounts involved are much smaller. But the prinicple remains.

The person I spoke with insisted (quite rudely) that there is “no such thing as giving someone a trailer in the ACT”, and that duty must be paid.”

Just wait until you finally get down to the ACT Government Shopfront. The concierges are not only terse and rude, but regularly get into screaming matches with customers. You will then, somehow, have TaMS staff try to justify their behaviour when you take it up with management.

Totally agree with you buddy.

Here’s another nonsense (aka revenue-raising example):
My partner sold his car and we are now sharing a car…so I wanted to have the car in both our names. My name would stay on the rego, just wanted to add his. I was told that was essentially a sale and he would have to pay duty on that…when the car was still worth $40k, there was no way I was coming at that.

Nonsense. Agree with the above….would be interesting to see what would happen with the scenario in #1 and a negative amount.

It just annoys me that they make it so hard/punish people doing the right thing…and we wonder why all the bogans never register anything or bother paying fines. Maybe we’re the crazy ones.

“Computer says no”

Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

farout said :

Or better still, put in a negative value, something line -$200, and take it to a CC saying she paid you to take it away. If you’re lucky the system will give YOU some money.

I’m a big fan of this idea. Say the market value of removing it from her yard and replacing the floor was –$1000 and see off their computer explodes.

We tried this many years ago with a car.

My middle sister gave my eldest sister her old car. They just wanted to transfer the rego. No money changed hands but duty had to be paid on what they deemed the car was valued at.

Greedy in my eyes !

Even my mother had to pay stamp duty (again) on the house when removing ex-hubby’s name from the title. Even though again no money changed hands.

You’ll need a document signed by the previous owner stating it is a gift and nominating the market value of the trailer. In my opinion, you should value the trailer at 50 dollars (I believe you’ll pay less than $5 in transfer duty for a $50 trailer)

Just pay her a dollar, get her to give you a receipt for it, then follow the bouncing ball at Canberra Connect.

Or better still, put in a negative value, something line -$200, and take it to a CC saying she paid you to take it away. If you’re lucky the system will give YOU some money.

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