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No word on how ACT Government plans to make money out of development along the tram corridor

By rommeldog56 - 5 February 2015 33

An interesting article on some of some apparent secrecy surrounding options for raising money by the ACT Government along the light rail corridor :

There is no doubt it will be more expensive to live along the tram corridor or to set up business there.  The question is, who will pay and how much?

I also see that in unveiling the master plan for Woden, the ACT Government has included a tram in the drawings – without any overhead cables!

What’s Your opinion?


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33 Responses to
No word on how ACT Government plans to make money out of development along the tram corridor
JC 12:45 am 08 Feb 15

Maya123 said :

JC said :

rommeldog56 said :

watto23 said :

Easy, rates on the route will go up. Those that want to live there will pay and those that don’t won’t.
Remember just because you don’t think its worth it, doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who would pay a fortune to live there.

I have no problem with Annual Rates along the Tram corriodore increasing more that the rest in recognition of proximity. As long as that is disclosed to buyers before hand and not after all the developments have been sold.

I have no problem either. But in fairness the rates of those that live within 5km of the Canberra hospital should go up, same with those within 5km of Calvary, but only by half that of TCH because Calvary only offers a limited service.

Those that live one suburb from main arterial roads should also pay more, and if an arterial road is duplicated then for a period of 10 years they should pay double.

Those within walking distance of schools should pay a special school levy, and of course those that live withing 5km of Fyshwick or Mitchell should be paying an adult entertainment levy owing to their close proximity to said services that operate in these suburbs. With the school levy and the entertainment levy it doesn’t matter if residents don’t utilise said services, the fact they are and they get a benefit, or perceived benefit compared to those living in Tuggeranong they should pay more.

Doesn’t Tuggeranong have schools, or arterial roads such as the Monaro Hwy!! Of course it does.

Yep but I said tax thoughs living one suburb from an aterial road or walking distance of a school because they are getting something others further away don’t Fairs fair.

rubaiyat 2:46 pm 07 Feb 15

“I also see that in unveiling the master plan for Woden, the ACT Government has included a tram in the drawings – without any overhead cables!”

Actually there is light rail technology that is wireless, not that the ACT government looks like it is going to use that. Nor driverless systems.

I think it only fair that those getting the benefits of the new transport pay. The utility of having clean, frequent and attractive transport at your doorstep is worth something. In Sydney everyone clusters around transport because driving is such a lost cause.

The big problem, as usual with the ACT, is the lack of forward planning especially coherent forward planning. If this was the way of the future why is there nothing planned, even rights of way for Molonglo?

Where is the overall planning for the whole of Canberra? If everyone knew this was heading for a real solution for everyone instead of a tiny proportion of the tiny proportion in cooee of the line in Gungahlin, then the government would have more support.

I did a quick overlay of Canberra and despite the badly designed urban sprawl you can reach nearly all of Canberra with about 4 lines.

I strongly disagree with the proposed Civic Gungahlin route because it really services next to no-one. The better initial route should run from Dickson down Lonsdale Street through Garema Place and out over Commonwealth Bridge past most of the important destinations in the Parliamentary triangle and onto Manuka and Kingston.

Then Stage 2 build on that with another line running from Belconnen to Civic and on to Woden, Molonglo and Weston.

Only Stage 3 should run to Gungahlin when they actually build something en-route instead of the mostly empty paddocks and distant housing.

In all cases the object is to pick up and put down people en-route and to truly close by destinations, not lay the tracks down Northbourne Ave and Flemington Road because they are wide roads and it is an excuse to chop down all the trees.

The Government plan will fail because in nearly all cases the route does not go where people really want to go and is way too far away from potential passengers, for them to bother catching buses (doubly inconvenient) or walking to the line.

Light rail takes two forms, Light Rapid along an extended route, or slower but more convenient frequent pick-up and put down, absolutely convenient for the residential and commercial lining the route.

The Gungahlin line does neither. It is not fast, it is the same speed as the bus it replaces but is LESS convenient because it doesn’t cover the same extended destinations. It also is remote from potential passengers. Dickson for example, a popular destination, is a good walk across a several busy roads, and Gungahlin is designed with residential well away from the Civic Centre and is along a long route through open countryside lacking destinations.

rommeldog56 2:29 pm 07 Feb 15

JC said :

rommeldog56 said :

watto23 said :

Easy, rates on the route will go up. Those that want to live there will pay and those that don’t won’t.
Remember just because you don’t think its worth it, doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who would pay a fortune to live there.

I have no problem with Annual Rates along the Tram corriodore increasing more that the rest in recognition of proximity. As long as that is disclosed to buyers before hand and not after all the developments have been sold.

I have no problem either. But in fairness the rates of those that live within 5km of the Canberra hospital should go up, same with those within 5km of Calvary, but only by half that of TCH because Calvary only offers a limited service.

Those that live one suburb from main arterial roads should also pay more, and if an arterial road is duplicated then for a period of 10 years they should pay double.

Those within walking distance of schools should pay a special school levy, and of course those that live withing 5km of Fyshwick or Mitchell should be paying an adult entertainment levy owing to their close proximity to said services that operate in these suburbs. With the school levy and the entertainment levy it doesn’t matter if residents don’t utilise said services, the fact they are and they get a benefit, or perceived benefit compared to those living in Tuggeranong they should pay more.

Last I remember, roads are everywhere, schools are everywhere, shopping centres are everywhere, Hospitals are strategically located – as are are police stations, fire stations, etc. So we all pay because we all benefit. Thats fair enough.

The tram, on the other hand only benefits those living along its corridore. But i fully agree, their Annual Rates should rise substanially.

miz 2:04 pm 07 Feb 15

Interesting CT article about PPPs, noting what should be in contract if project is halted: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/east-west-the-publicprivate-project-from-hell-20150206-137mj5.html

I quote: “The argument about how much the government (and behind it, Victorian taxpayers) will pay to kill the East West Link project would be fairly simple if the East West contract included an agreement that upfront payments made on the assumption that the project would proceed were repayable if the project was halted.
It is understood, however, that the East West contract does not include such an agreement – and that previous PPP projects in Australia have also not included clawback mechanisms.
Even allowing for the fact that the events that created the East West debacle were extraordinary, this is a gap that those drafting future PP contracts must close.”
I sincerely hope the ACT Govt’s PPP arrangements are not full of such holes, though going on past history with infrastructure projects (the GDE balls up, for instance) I don’t actually have much confidence they will get it right.

Maya123 12:21 pm 07 Feb 15

JC said :

rommeldog56 said :

watto23 said :

Easy, rates on the route will go up. Those that want to live there will pay and those that don’t won’t.
Remember just because you don’t think its worth it, doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who would pay a fortune to live there.

I have no problem with Annual Rates along the Tram corriodore increasing more that the rest in recognition of proximity. As long as that is disclosed to buyers before hand and not after all the developments have been sold.

I have no problem either. But in fairness the rates of those that live within 5km of the Canberra hospital should go up, same with those within 5km of Calvary, but only by half that of TCH because Calvary only offers a limited service.

Those that live one suburb from main arterial roads should also pay more, and if an arterial road is duplicated then for a period of 10 years they should pay double.

Those within walking distance of schools should pay a special school levy, and of course those that live withing 5km of Fyshwick or Mitchell should be paying an adult entertainment levy owing to their close proximity to said services that operate in these suburbs. With the school levy and the entertainment levy it doesn’t matter if residents don’t utilise said services, the fact they are and they get a benefit, or perceived benefit compared to those living in Tuggeranong they should pay more.

Doesn’t Tuggeranong have schools, or arterial roads such as the Monaro Hwy!! Of course it does.

JC 11:06 am 07 Feb 15

rommeldog56 said :

watto23 said :

Easy, rates on the route will go up. Those that want to live there will pay and those that don’t won’t.
Remember just because you don’t think its worth it, doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who would pay a fortune to live there.

I have no problem with Annual Rates along the Tram corriodore increasing more that the rest in recognition of proximity. As long as that is disclosed to buyers before hand and not after all the developments have been sold.

I have no problem either. But in fairness the rates of those that live within 5km of the Canberra hospital should go up, same with those within 5km of Calvary, but only by half that of TCH because Calvary only offers a limited service.

Those that live one suburb from main arterial roads should also pay more, and if an arterial road is duplicated then for a period of 10 years they should pay double.

Those within walking distance of schools should pay a special school levy, and of course those that live withing 5km of Fyshwick or Mitchell should be paying an adult entertainment levy owing to their close proximity to said services that operate in these suburbs. With the school levy and the entertainment levy it doesn’t matter if residents don’t utilise said services, the fact they are and they get a benefit, or perceived benefit compared to those living in Tuggeranong they should pay more.

rommeldog56 10:28 am 07 Feb 15

Nightshade said :

rommeldog56 said :

Agreed. But what i mean is that after the Tram is built and people have purchased to live be along the Tram corridor, ie. the development has mostly finished, I would expect that the ACT Gov’t will introduce a Annual Rates loading, a levy, a surcharge or something similar for proximity.

In cities like Sydney, land values are higher along a train line due to the convenience (and therefore desirability) of living there, but I haven’t heard of a special loading or levy being charged. I would be rather surprised if this was the plan. I’d expect rates would just be higher due to land values (if indeed they are higher).

From the linked article in the Canberra Times on 18/1/15 :

“Among value capture options listed in the rapid business case are rates, land taxes, stamp duty and lease variation changes.

It also lists new taxes, including a district levy or direct levy, development impact fees, the sale of “air rights”, tax increment financing, negotiated exactions and development impact fees.

The Government has since ruled out a special levy, although is unclear what the value capture study might have concluded on that option.”

So, will be intersting to see if the ACT Gov’t ever releases that report. There are still plenty of other charges or taxes they could impose, just not call it a “levy”. Whats “air rights” ?

Nightshade 9:21 am 07 Feb 15

rommeldog56 said :

Agreed. But what i mean is that after the Tram is built and people have purchased to live be along the Tram corridor, ie. the development has mostly finished, I would expect that the ACT Gov’t will introduce a Annual Rates loading, a levy, a surcharge or something similar for proximity.

In cities like Sydney, land values are higher along a train line due to the convenience (and therefore desirability) of living there, but I haven’t heard of a special loading or levy being charged. I would be rather surprised if this was the plan. I’d expect rates would just be higher due to land values (if indeed they are higher).

chewy14 9:08 am 07 Feb 15

rommeldog56 said :

chewy14 said :

rommeldog56 said :

watto23 said :

Easy, rates on the route will go up. Those that want to live there will pay and those that don’t won’t.
Remember just because you don’t think its worth it, doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who would pay a fortune to live there.

I have no problem with Annual Rates along the Tram corriodore increasing more that the rest in recognition of proximity. As long as that is disclosed to buyers before hand and not after all the developments have been sold.

I’m pretty sure they’ll know what the rates are going to be, seeing as the sale prices are going to be partly based on the UV of the land and so are the rates.

Agreed. But what i mean is that after the Tram is built and people have purchased to live be along the Tram corridor, ie. the development has mostly finished, I would expect that the ACT Gov’t will introduce a Annual Rates loading, a levy, a surcharge or something similar for proximity.

That would be in addition to the increase in the UV on which Annual Rates are based for land in the corridor.

What is concerning is that the ACT Gov’t wont release the report or its content.

They’ve already said that a specific corridor charge has been ruled out so they would be going back on that statement to introduce one.

The revenue is meant to be gained from the large increase in density, property prices and rates along the development corridor.

rommeldog56 8:12 am 07 Feb 15

chewy14 said :

rommeldog56 said :

watto23 said :

Easy, rates on the route will go up. Those that want to live there will pay and those that don’t won’t.
Remember just because you don’t think its worth it, doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who would pay a fortune to live there.

I have no problem with Annual Rates along the Tram corriodore increasing more that the rest in recognition of proximity. As long as that is disclosed to buyers before hand and not after all the developments have been sold.

I’m pretty sure they’ll know what the rates are going to be, seeing as the sale prices are going to be partly based on the UV of the land and so are the rates.

Agreed. But what i mean is that after the Tram is built and people have purchased to live be along the Tram corridor, ie. the development has mostly finished, I would expect that the ACT Gov’t will introduce a Annual Rates loading, a levy, a surcharge or something similar for proximity. That would be in addition to the increase in the UV on which Annual Rates are based for land in the corridor.

What is concerning is that the ACT Gov’t wont release the report or its content.

chewy14 8:23 pm 06 Feb 15

rommeldog56 said :

watto23 said :

Easy, rates on the route will go up. Those that want to live there will pay and those that don’t won’t.
Remember just because you don’t think its worth it, doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who would pay a fortune to live there.

I have no problem with Annual Rates along the Tram corriodore increasing more that the rest in recognition of proximity. As long as that is disclosed to buyers before hand and not after all the developments have been sold.

I’m pretty sure they’ll know what the rates are going to be, seeing as the sale prices are going to be partly based on the UV of the land and so are the rates.

dungfungus 5:01 pm 06 Feb 15

watto23 said :

Easy, rates on the route will go up. Those that want to live there will pay and those that don’t won’t.
Remember just because you don’t think its worth it, doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who would pay a fortune to live there.

People who have the means to “pay a fortune to live there” don’t travel by public transport.
And where will the people who move to Northbourne Avenue catch the tram to.
There are two choices. Gungahlin or Civic, the latter in easy walking or cycling distance.
Now tell me if it’s worth it.

rommeldog56 4:32 pm 06 Feb 15

watto23 said :

Easy, rates on the route will go up. Those that want to live there will pay and those that don’t won’t.
Remember just because you don’t think its worth it, doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who would pay a fortune to live there.

I have no problem with Annual Rates along the Tram corriodore increasing more that the rest in recognition of proximity. As long as that is disclosed to buyers before hand and not after all the developments have been sold.

watto23 3:49 pm 06 Feb 15

Easy, rates on the route will go up. Those that want to live there will pay and those that don’t won’t.
Remember just because you don’t think its worth it, doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who would pay a fortune to live there.

dungfungus 6:09 pm 05 Feb 15

I am going to buy some airspace for a cafe over a tram station and call it “Simon’s Pie In The Sky”
It won’t be too long before they pull the plug on this fantasy.
Forget the “positive” feedback they are talking about, the behind the scenes polling will decide its fate.

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