1 February 2013

NSW speeding fine as ACT driver

| Rollersk8r
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Ok – mostly rant – but part prayer for a free solution:

During the Christmas holidays I got a speeding fine in Sydney – 70kmh in a 60kmh zone – outside of the double demerits period. A quick search of the NSW RTA website indicates the fine will be waived if it’s a low range offence (less than 30kmh over) and you have a clean driving record in the last 10 years. I have had ONE minor speeding fine, 15 years ago, in 20 years of driving – so I filled out the online form and thought that would be the end of it (but knowing my luck, probably not).

So sure enough, another week later, I get an email from the NSW RTA saying sure, you can get out of the fine, just send us an official copy of your clean driving record. So I go into the motor registry – sure you can have a copy of your driving record – that will be $21.40. WHAT!?

Seriously WTF? The NSW system clearly has all my details, just not my history? Databases still don’t talk to each other in 2013? At the very least the NSW RTA can’t just call the ACT Registry? Would be a hell of a lot quicker, rather than sending me to do it, waiting, then reprocessing the whole thing when I get back to them?? And don’t even get me started on lining up for hours to pay someone $20 to press ‘print’.

So I didn’t pay the ACT motor registry’s $21.40 “document fee” – but it looks like I have no choice – to get out of a $105 fine.

My human rights are being violated here Corbell! I’ll take this to the highest court in the land! It strikes at the very heart of…. family values or something!

I’ve already wasted more than $21.40 worth of my life just now!

I know, I know, I’m a criminal and need to shut up and just pay the ACT fine to get out of the NSW fine.

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Dante said :

Databases don’t talk to each other across state/territory borders due to privacy regulations.

watto23 said :

Years ago they made a fuss about nationwide laws etc etc. The only real effect was that losing your license in any state means you can’t get a license in another state. The points don’t come off your license because they don’t share that info, just license cancellations.

LOL.

See 11(3) and 11(4) or the simplified version.

Years ago they made a fuss about nationwide laws etc etc. The only real effect was that losing your license in any state means you can’t get a license in another state. The points don’t come off your license because they don’t share that info, just license cancellations. Also the tolerance levels and fine levels vary wildly in each state/territory. In the ACT you’d be unlucky to be booked for anything that is less than or equal to 10% over the speed limit.
But 67 in a 60 and 89 in an 80 will get you camera fines, but probably not police tickets.

vg said :

There is no ‘cut off’. You can be fined for going 1km/h over the speed limit

There is, however, different “categories of speeding fine”, and there are “cut offs” between those categories…

p996911turbo said :

p996911turbo said :

I got a fine for the lowest speeding category (under 15km/h over the speed limit) in South Australia. It was over $300. For the lowest category speeding fine.

Suck it up, princess. $21.50 is a lot better than over $300.

Sorry I should clarify. It was 12km/h over the limit. That’s the lowest category in the ACT, but not in SA. Their cut-off is 10km/h.

There is no ‘cut off’. You can be fined for going 1km/h over the speed limit

Girt_Hindrance11:29 pm 03 Feb 13

Is there an RA record for ‘suck it up, Princess’ statements in the comments?
+1

You sped, got caught, you’re fully aware that you did it, but you’re complaining about paying a tiny percentage to have the fine and the points overturned?

Just pay the 21 bucks, and try not to be so indignant at getting caught doing the wrong thing next time.

It is not the NSW RMS (formerly RTA) that will waive the fine, it is actually the NSW State Debt Recovery Office that you have to deal with. That department does not have full access to the NSW RMS database or that of any other state/territory.

Staff of the SDRO cannot access your driving record, be in it NSW, ACT or any where else. That is why you must supply a copy of your driving record.

The SDRO publish their fine waiver guidelines, and it is essentially that if you have no offences in the past ten years you will be given a caution for a minor offence.

Rollersk8r said :

Nothing!! Why is the ACT motor registry any different to the dozens of other services I pay for? If you think of it in terms of accessing your account information and usage history I can do this as much as I like for banking, ISP, phones, Medicare, ACT library (And that’s free! Hello!), ACTION (hello again!), E-tag, health insurance, newspaper subscription, etc, etc. Everyone else realises zero customer interaction saves them money…

With all those things listed above they key word is YOU can access it. With the motor registry, along with heaps of other things, such as birth certificate, marriage certificate etc YOU cannot access it so their staff do which comes at a cost. There are also many commercial services which are free until you need to get staff involvement.

Additionally you will find even if you could access them yourself that a printout made by you will not suffice for the purpose you wish. The reason being the record from the motor registry is certified by the person who prints it out for you. Again this comes at a staff cost which I am not happy to pay the cost of every year through an increase in my rego so that people such as yourself can go get it for free.

End of the day you speed, you are going to get off, but at a cost. So suck it up princess.

wildturkeycanoe6:06 am 02 Feb 13

I would hate to have to pay $21.40 for a piece of paper that says “Driving misdemeanors – NIL”.
If it had something worth reading however, eg.
“Car, far, he drove his car very far,
Speed, need, needed to speed along the tar.
Bright lights, chasing him through the streets at night,
Jail, bail, the fine is arriving in the mail.”

54-11 said :

Rollersk8r said :

p996911turbo said :

I got a fine for the lowest speeding category (under 15km/h over the speed limit) in South Australia. It was over $300. For the lowest category speeding fine.

Suck it up, princess. $21.50 is a lot better than over $300.

Ha! It took all of 4 comments before I got a “suck it up princess”! I was expecting that as post 1!

Agreed. What is it with all these RA whackers that keep saying this? What a puerile comment “suck it up…” is. Shows an intellectual vacuum between the ears. Find something new that actually makes sense, and that hasn’t been said so many times before.

No, it indicates that some of us know how to cop it on the chin when we’ve done wrong.

Then add to that the fool who did wrong is too cheap to spend $20 bucks, to avoid paying $100 bucks.

You broke the law, it’s a strict liability offence. You should be grateful they have a mechanism to reduce that cost in light of your driving record.

What next, the few cents you’ll spend on a stamp to post the documents is an infringement of human rights?

PantsMan said :

Idea 1: FOI your driving records, and then claim the personal information exemption to charges.

Idea 2: Apply for a waiver of the fee under section 131 of the Financial Management and Accountability Act 1996.

A wonderfully Canberran answer!

Ok well I just had to spend my afternoon with 2 cranky kids in the car, run out to Fyshwick and pay the ACT Govt $40 because the Aust Passport office couldn’t quite decide if a single letter on my son’s birth certificate was an ‘L’ or an ‘i’. There was a slight smudge on the print probably from when it was sent out folded in the post to me back in 2006 ( I have had it stored flat in an acid free album so I know it wasn’t my fault).
The letter was in my second name. Every other detail was matched perfectly.
So don’t complain about databases not talking to each other. And having to pay for something that is not your fault! Oh wait ….
I’m with them – Suck it up princess
Now I feel mean. I’ve had a bad day.

There is a national database, its called NEVDIS but it only gives basic details interstate like your name & if your licence is current. This is why NSW are asking you to get the details.

The $21.50 is an admin fee, the ACT RTA have never, & I repeat, never have given this information out for free. It actually takes quite a while to find some of this information so that is why they charge.

Rollersk8r said :

p996911turbo said :

I got a fine for the lowest speeding category (under 15km/h over the speed limit) in South Australia. It was over $300. For the lowest category speeding fine.

Suck it up, princess. $21.50 is a lot better than over $300.

Ha! It took all of 4 comments before I got a “suck it up princess”! I was expecting that as post 1!

Agreed. What is it with all these RA whackers that keep saying this? What a puerile comment “suck it up…” is. Shows an intellectual vacuum between the ears. Find something new that actually makes sense, and that hasn’t been said so many times before.

Suck it up princess.

I do love that it somehow costs $20 when it’s not in their interests, yet they are perfectly happy to do it for free of their own initiative when they want to catch you out in a lie.

You can’t afford $21.40?
Are you the homeless guy outside Civic Maccas?! I just gave you $10 about 20 minutes earlier!

JC said :

So what price do you reckon you should pay to access your record? Now don’t say nothing, because frankly the $300 or so that we pay for car rego doesn’t go very far and it does cost to have the people in the Canberra connect offices..

Nothing!! Why is the ACT motor registry any different to the dozens of other services I pay for? If you think of it in terms of accessing your account information and usage history I can do this as much as I like for banking, ISP, phones, Medicare, ACT library (And that’s free! Hello!), ACTION (hello again!), E-tag, health insurance, newspaper subscription, etc, etc. Everyone else realises zero customer interaction saves them money…

And hey – I’d happily pay a lot more than $21.40 to never visit an ACT motor registry again!

Years ago (more than 15) I sold a vehicle in NSW but we forgot to update the change of rego for a couple of weeks. In the course of about 3 months, the new owners racked up about 20 parking tickets (no on-the-spot fines then). Even though the rego details had been updated, NSW still sent the tickets to us. The back of the parking infringement notice stated if you weren’t the registered owner at the time of the infringement “please sign here,witnessed by a JP”. We duly did this for all the infringement notices we received. The infringements that occurred after the rego change over were waived, however we still had to fork out for the 4 or 5 that were issued before then. Obviously the databases DO talk to each other when pushed.

Databases don’t talk to each other across state/territory borders due to privacy regulations.

I’m glad they don’t talk, as I’m not a citizen of NSW and would prefer for them to not have rampant access to my details for no reason.

For them to talk and share like that the Feds step in and arrange it (i.e. Crime Commission). Road services aren’t really a big enough issue to the Feds to consider giving it a statutory authority.

It might be quicker for both RTA’s to talk to each other, but why should they?

You want the fine reduced, you do the leg work.

So what price do you reckon you should pay to access your record? Now don’t say nothing, because frankly the $300 or so that we pay for car rego doesn’t go very far and it does cost to have the people in the Canberra connect offices..

p996911turbo said :

I got a fine for the lowest speeding category (under 15km/h over the speed limit) in South Australia. It was over $300. For the lowest category speeding fine.

Suck it up, princess. $21.50 is a lot better than over $300.

Ha! It took all of 4 comments before I got a “suck it up princess”! I was expecting that as post 1!

Ahem – minor edit – nowhere does it officially say the fine will be waived, though I still expect my chances are better than 50/50. Of course, worst possible outcome is I pay the $21.40 for my record and have to pay the fine regardless…

A very similar thing happened to me but in reverse, the NSW RTA also has ~$20 fee for retrieving driving record.

p996911turbo5:02 pm 01 Feb 13

p996911turbo said :

I got a fine for the lowest speeding category (under 15km/h over the speed limit) in South Australia. It was over $300. For the lowest category speeding fine.

Suck it up, princess. $21.50 is a lot better than over $300.

Sorry I should clarify. It was 12km/h over the limit. That’s the lowest category in the ACT, but not in SA. Their cut-off is 10km/h.

p996911turbo4:59 pm 01 Feb 13

I got a fine for the lowest speeding category (under 15km/h over the speed limit) in South Australia. It was over $300. For the lowest category speeding fine.

Suck it up, princess. $21.50 is a lot better than over $300.

A few years back I got pinged doing 55 in a 40 zone, on the first day of the school term when none of the kids were in the school because it was a pupil-free day. I know this because they were at the park where my kids were playing. I didn’t see the first 40 sign, then noticed the school, slowed down but too late. The rellies car following behind didn’t get a fine and didn’t see the first sign either.

A couple of weeks before they had decided to double the demerit points and fines for speeding fines in school zones. Fair enough too. Because of this I also couldn’t apply for the clean-record waiver.

I paid up and didn’t post to RA … until now.

Idea 1: FOI your driving records, and then claim the personal information exemption to charges.

Idea 2: Apply for a waiver of the fee under section 131 of the Financial Management and Accountability Act 1996.

wow…i didn’t know that. we might as well get out of everything…what a farce. less than 30km/hr over is considered “low range”…? wow.

$21.40 is a bit steep (but you still should be counting yourself lucky to get out of a fine)…but to reduce the work we should be able to get it online, that sounds more efficient all around

out of interest, do they record that you were given a “hall pass” on this? otherwise who’d ever get a fine?

why would you expect NSW and ACT databases to talk to each other? each state and territory has different road rules and some even have stopped issuing rego stickers.

pay the $21.40 and be done with it (it does actually cost money to pay someone to interrogate a database and print your record), or live with the demerit points and a dirty driving record.

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