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Oh what have we here? the schools saga continues, and gets muddier and dirtier.

By Thumper - 15 September 2005 14

First we have the government announcing without any consultation that they are going to bulldoze Ginninderra High and make a mega school. Then we have the government consulting with the community under some strange terms of reference which came up with the answer they wanted.

Then we had assurances that latham and melba would not be bulldozed.

I think we are seeing that this decision has absolutely nothing to do with educational needs and all to do with making a great big cash grab by rezoning education land to residential.

And so on and on it goes and it would seem young katie is getting in above her depth.

CT article here.

What’s Your opinion?


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14 Responses to
Oh what have we here? the schools saga continues, and gets muddier and dirtier.
Chalker 1:24 pm 19 Sep 05

Without the census data itself, no. But the department (of Ed.) is usually fairly accurate in my experience, at least from year to year.

Maelinar 4:13 pm 16 Sep 05

here

for my crappy linking skills

[ED – Link edited to not bugger up site format]

Maelinar 3:45 pm 16 Sep 05

Thankyou for your comments Areaman.

Can any teachers out there confirm that these are the numbers ?

The direct link is

areaman 3:23 pm 16 Sep 05

Maelinar was asking for research so I was giving it to him. Who else is going to do that kind of research apart from governments?

As to it being a money grab that doesn’t make any sense even on purely mathematical basis. The new school is going to cost $43+ million and that scare mongering CT cover that also listed schools that aren’t going to be sold only added up to less than $30 mil, so even there they are down a heap of cash. It can’t be a grab for cash if it is costing them more money than it is making.

As to quoting blind sources with little to back up, we can all do that, I know people in the department who assure me Latham’s not going to close as a result of the new school, but apart from having a pissing competition what does that prove.

As to the report I ‘d say it was pretty stupid to get a possible contract to do the review, but you have to remember this was only a site review. It was looking at where the school should be built (some people had suggested on one of the school ovals or on other green fields locations in the area) not if it should be or what schools should shut down so the potential contractor wouldn’t have a vested interest in the location (unless they also owned some of the land, but this is all government land), this was a review about where the school would be built, based on questions asked by the community, not on if it should be.

Thumper 3:02 pm 16 Sep 05

Areaman,

Um, your reference is a government document! What else do you think it’ll say?

Geez, are you an apologist for Stanhope, or a developer. Which bit of the argument don’t you get? Can’t you read the bit about government making big dollars? Can’t you read the bit about consultation being a sham?

I can tell Latham Primary is definitely to go even though gallagher denied that it will. My source is a very good one so you’ll just have to trust me on this.

Frankly I think Ginninderra High is well past its use by date and needs major work. It may well be better to bulldoze it but the way the government has got around this is appalling.

And I still believe that the only reason they want a mega school is so all that lovely land is freed up for rezoning, which means money.

Oh, by the way, did you realise that the consultancy said that higgins would be a better place for the mega school? no, didn’t think so. Why then the continued push for the Ginninderra site? Could it be because the Higgins site is much larger and could fit more houses on it/

This has nothing to do with education and it just gets worse ever time gallagher opens her mouth.

areaman 2:54 pm 16 Sep 05

And Maelinar as to not being asked about if you have kids or want them, yes you were asked about that… it’s called the Census, this is exactly why we have it. Anyway wouldn’t a good free marketeer like yourself send you kids to private school?

areaman 2:46 pm 16 Sep 05

Did you even bother to look into it at all Maelinar, or am I your research assistant now? How about this http://www.det.act.gov.au/ministerial/ginninderra.htm There is a heap of info there including projected future enrolments. I’d say they have done research, certainly more than some you who from what I can see only ever has baseless opinions, and they are usually pretty easy to disprove.

Maelinar 1:07 pm 16 Sep 05

I’m interested in this community consultation that has allegedly gone on. As a resident of Holt, I have not been asked of my opinion on the closure of any of our local schools other than the ladies with the petition outside Kippax mall.

The government has not asked my opinion, nor have they enquired if I am intending on childraising (which I am) in the next few years in the area. I’m sure if Holt and the surrounding suburbs were polled, you would get a pretty good idea of how full the school will be in the next few years without too much of a hassle.

I am guessing that the people of Tuggeranong, Queanbeyan etc don’t actually give a shit about a school in Holt, so if other people have been asked their opinion, it’s irrelevant, as the effect of a local school does not span to them.

I have continually gone on about the transparent lack of planning that has gone into this issue, and it’s time to start taking action. There has been no research behind this decision, otherwise the Government would be pointing to it and saying ‘there it is’. You would too Areaman, but since it’s as nonexistant as prior planning in this incarnation of Government, it simply isn’t there is it ?

The challenge is out. Show us where the research has been done.

I propose that the only research that has been done into redeveloping the schools in the area is the land valuation that Thumper quoted earlier.

Samuel Gordon-Stewar 7:49 pm 15 Sep 05

I’m always suspicious when a politician has an actual direct answer, and Katie did yesterday afternoon on the radio…mind you, I’ve disliked the idea from the start, so I could just be biased against Katie (I hope so!).

areaman 5:35 pm 15 Sep 05

Because, as previously stated, the enrolment numbers when a school becomes untenable would be different for high schools than they would be for primary schools. Also it’s more important to have local primary schools than it is to have local high schools as the high school students are more independent and can travel further to get to class.

Plus there might be demographical trends at work, so it’s not just about the current enrolments but also about trends for the future.

As to if larger schools give better educational outcomes it’s important to remember that the actual proposal is for a campus with separate primary, middle and secondary schools using some shared facilities. My understanding is that the idea behind this is that the students get the facilities and options of a larger school while having the smaller class sizes and student focus of smaller schools.

nyssa76 3:18 pm 15 Sep 05

Middle schooling has been suggested as an alternative, however, only 5 schools in the ACT run middle schooling programs and most are “different”. There isn’t much in the Education Act 2004 about it either.

I teach in an ACT Govt high school, though I am primary trained and yes there is a difference, but if we are to close schools due to numbers, then why only a select few?

Roland GRNS 3:08 pm 15 Sep 05

A High School is very different to a primary school in terms of kids, communities, parents, educational possibilities, etc

I’m not writing in support (or against) the P-10 school.

I do think how we make high schools work for all students – and how big they might need to be – is a different question to what size and what location works for primary schools

nyssa76 3:01 pm 15 Sep 05

Acutally, there is research to suggest that a “mega” school would cause problems for students – that they would effectively get lost in the crowd.

Smaller schools, with a larger emphasis on smaller class numbers can actually improve student achievement.

However, my question to Katie would be – why is Lyons PS allowed to stay open with a student population of 78 whereas Ginninderra HS (and those PS around it) must close?

Vic Bitterman 2:47 pm 15 Sep 05

I’m all for it – raze em all. Get some money back into the economy.

Larger, more efficient schools never hurt anyone’s education.

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