Ohh no light rail

Liam46 12 June 2013 85

You have got to be joking , it would be funny it it wasn’t serious.

18 Million dollars to look into light rail, considering the buses are not fully patronized and this would serve one suburb.

Why do you think other city councils would never consider it, like Geelong, Woolongong or Gold coast or Bendigo for example.

Answer they could never afford it, and it would do their budget in for decades.

So can anybody in their right mind explain how the Canberra City Council would be any different ?

Who in the ACT government is qualified and experienced enough to run a project this size ?

Well it doesn’t really matter, when it comes to accountability i know who will be here for a very long time paying, its you and me the taxpayer. Its never going to work you know.


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Innovation Innovation 1:14 pm 26 Jun 13

watto23 said :

My concern is not that whether light rail is money well spent. i think it is, but only if it is used to rapidly transport people between the town centres. the current plan is to have stops every kilometre or so, so if it doesn’t bypass traffic lights i fail to see why anyone would catch it. Its the same reason many do not catch a bus now, because it takes too long A 25 minute journey from Tuggeranong in a car is a 45-60+ minute journey by bus.

I’m not opposed to a light rail service with some intermediate stops in places like dickson, erindale etc, but id think only a couple of stops between town centres with smaller buses delivering passengers to those stops, or facilities like park and rides.

As long as they build it to be capable of supporting a rapid and all stops service then it probably could work. That said, i’d be just as happy with a rapid bus service, but a proper one with its own dedicated lane the whole way that bypasses intersections.

Even in Sydney, many train stations are within walking distance of each other. A properly designed bus or train stop should be able to get passengers on or off in less than a minute. I agree that any transport service must not be delayed at all by any traffic, including intersections or bottlenecks, but regular stops shouldn’t add much time. Reducing the number of stops is a bit like having a hospital with no patients.

watto23 watto23 11:45 am 26 Jun 13

My concern is not that whether light rail is money well spent. i think it is, but only if it is used to rapidly transport people between the town centres. the current plan is to have stops every kilometre or so, so if it doesn’t bypass traffic lights i fail to see why anyone would catch it. Its the same reason many do not catch a bus now, because it takes too long A 25 minute journey from Tuggeranong in a car is a 45-60+ minute journey by bus.

I’m not opposed to a light rail service with some intermediate stops in places like dickson, erindale etc, but id think only a couple of stops between town centres with smaller buses delivering passengers to those stops, or facilities like park and rides.

As long as they build it to be capable of supporting a rapid and all stops service then it probably could work. That said, i’d be just as happy with a rapid bus service, but a proper one with its own dedicated lane the whole way that bypasses intersections.

farout farout 9:44 am 26 Jun 13

miz said :

Hey Comic, because I like having a decent backyard (for vegies, shady microclimate etc), Gunners is unthinkable.

The older suburbs of Gunners – Palmerston, Nicholls, Ngunnawal, Amaroo – tend to have decent block sizes.

frankie frankie 9:25 pm 25 Jun 13

BicycleCanberra said :

Gungahlin Al said :

FFS, that could only come from someone who has never set foot on a bus.

The red rapid line is extremely well frequented throughout the day, and in peak periods it’s packed to the point where passengers at the Civic interchange literally can’t get on.

+1 for every single day I have to do the entire ride standing up wedged in between other people jammed right out to the door. “Lack of patronage” my lilly white arse! Lack of seats and lack of a clear run past gridlocked traffic more like.

ACTION should be using more of the Articulated buses for peak rapid routes rather than for school runs. And maybe they can try some bi – articulated buses as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee7QWjXyXZY

You will still have to stand up in light rail cars particularly at peak times don’t worry about that. Even in ass transit cities standing up is the norm I afraid.

+1. ACTION just needs to increase it’s fleet and routes, and improve it’s planning a little more. That would be far less expensive than light rail, and there would be no ripping up of land or infrastructure as a result. Increasing bus services is the most scalable and cost effective solution for the current sprawl we are currently facing in the ACT.

I quite like ACTION. I don’t see anything like the MyWay scanners on the Sydney buses I take. Be grateful, you lot :).

miz miz 10:16 am 16 Jun 13

Hey Comic, because I like having a decent backyard (for vegies, shady microclimate etc), Gunners is unthinkable.

ML-585 ML-585 8:29 pm 15 Jun 13

Liam46 said :

… a PPP has recently been ruled out by Barr.

When did that happen? I must have missed it.

No, what Barr said was that any PPP will be under-written by the Government so that should the patronage not meet expectations, the Gov will still be required to make up the difference. Which is pretty much what I thought would be the case anyway.

banco banco 4:22 pm 15 Jun 13

Liam46 said :

I have lived in Melbourne and the trams are superb, it works beautifully on a huge scale. Coming to Canberra I just think the current proposal , location , route , cost etc belongs in Disneyland. The cost and predicted patronage just don’t add up, sorry to be the bearer of realism. Please show support for Action buses, this is an existing realistic network which can be augmented and fine tuned.

I think Labor is well aware it’s unrealistic which is why the have umpteen studies into it without giving it the go ahead. That way they can dangle it like a carrot in front of the greenies who can’t add up and/or those who are willing to pay lots of tax for a white elephant.

switch switch 12:50 pm 15 Jun 13

dungfungus said :

Maybe it is time for Tuggers to secede from the ACT?
All we need is a “Q Bomb” like in “The Mouse That Roared”

You also need a comic genius like Peter Sellars…

dungfungus dungfungus 12:21 pm 15 Jun 13

miz said :

Ah, the ‘Blue Rapid’ (no one calls it that and as a regular bus user I didn’t even know about it, I admit – I had to look up the ACTION website!). This route (a conglomeration of routes in fact) is actually known to bus users as ‘the 300 buses’, which of course serve all of Canberra. It is not a specific service for Tuggeranong, unlike the Red Rapid which was set up specifically for Gunners.

Just because this bus line goes to the Tuggeranong interchange does not prove that Tuggers is served well by buses. No one goes to the interchange unless they have to, as it is not on the way to anywhere. It is usually a veritable ghost town compared to Woden Interchange.
I stand by my statement that Tuggeranong is poorly served by buses – there is a satellite image somewhere on the web of 24 hours of ACTION buses, in which you get a swirly image from the buses. It visually demonstrates that routes are Very sparse in South Tuggeranong. Will post when I find it.
My essential point is that Gunners gets lots of services and Tuggers gets few, ergo, Tuggers is constantly being asked to pay with little return. (Tuggers still looks ‘unfinished’ after 30 years – eg it was never planted up properly or provided with proper bus services when it was established – such things were ‘put off’ for financial reasons – self-government – and catchup has not been implemented.)
This light rail project is no different in that Tuggeranong is expected to pay, with no benefit to Tuggeranong whatsoever. Plus, it seems a poor use of government revenue to duplicate what is already a decent bus service.

Maybe it is time for Tuggers to secede from the ACT?
All we need is a “Q Bomb” like in “The Mouse That Roared”

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 12:14 pm 15 Jun 13

miz said :

Ah, the ‘Blue Rapid’ (no one calls it that and as a regular bus user I didn’t even know about it, I admit – I had to look up the ACTION website!). This route (a conglomeration of routes in fact) is actually known to bus users as ‘the 300 buses’, which of course serve all of Canberra. It is not a specific service for Tuggeranong, unlike the Red Rapid which was set up specifically for Gunners.

Just because this bus line goes to the Tuggeranong interchange does not prove that Tuggers is served well by buses. No one goes to the interchange unless they have to, as it is not on the way to anywhere. It is usually a veritable ghost town compared to Woden Interchange.
I stand by my statement that Tuggeranong is poorly served by buses – there is a satellite image somewhere on the web of 24 hours of ACTION buses, in which you get a swirly image from the buses. It visually demonstrates that routes are Very sparse in South Tuggeranong. Will post when I find it.
My essential point is that Gunners gets lots of services and Tuggers gets few, ergo, Tuggers is constantly being asked to pay with little return. (Tuggers still looks ‘unfinished’ after 30 years – eg it was never planted up properly or provided with proper bus services when it was established – such things were ‘put off’ for financial reasons – self-government – and catchup has not been implemented.)
This light rail project is no different in that Tuggeranong is expected to pay, with no benefit to Tuggeranong whatsoever. Plus, it seems a poor use of government revenue to duplicate what is already a decent bus service.

Why not buy a house In gunners then?

miz miz 7:58 am 15 Jun 13

Ah, the ‘Blue Rapid’ (no one calls it that and as a regular bus user I didn’t even know about it, I admit – I had to look up the ACTION website!). This route (a conglomeration of routes in fact) is actually known to bus users as ‘the 300 buses’, which of course serve all of Canberra. It is not a specific service for Tuggeranong, unlike the Red Rapid which was set up specifically for Gunners. Just because this bus line goes to the Tuggeranong interchange does not prove that Tuggers is served well by buses. No one goes to the interchange unless they have to, as it is not on the way to anywhere. It is usually a veritable ghost town compared to Woden Interchange.
I stand by my statement that Tuggeranong is poorly served by buses – there is a satellite image somewhere on the web of 24 hours of ACTION buses, in which you get a swirly image from the buses. It visually demonstrates that routes are Very sparse in South Tuggeranong. Will post when I find it.
My essential point is that Gunners gets lots of services and Tuggers gets few, ergo, Tuggers is constantly being asked to pay with little return. (Tuggers still looks ‘unfinished’ after 30 years – eg it was never planted up properly or provided with proper bus services when it was established – such things were ‘put off’ for financial reasons – self-government – and catchup has not been implemented.)
This light rail project is no different in that Tuggeranong is expected to pay, with no benefit to Tuggeranong whatsoever. Plus, it seems a poor use of government revenue to duplicate what is already a decent bus service.

milkman milkman 7:24 am 15 Jun 13

nothappyjan said :

Get real, accept reality.

You’re joking right?

This is a greenie stronghold – accepting reality is just not what we’re about.

nothappyjan nothappyjan 10:11 pm 14 Jun 13

Liam46 said :

I have lived in Melbourne and the trams are superb, it works beautifully on a huge scale. Coming to Canberra I just think the current proposal , location , route , cost etc belongs in Disneyland. The cost and predicted patronage just don’t add up, sorry to be the bearer of realism. Please show support for Action buses, this is an existing realistic network which can be augmented and fine tuned.

+1

Reminds me so much of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEZjzsnPhnw

Spend the money on more buses, bus drivers that can actually work part time when needed, multi-story car parking in the city, triangle & town centres where people with cars want/need to park.

Why waste so much money, time and effort on a few self interested trainspotters getting all excited and sticky in their anoraks?

Want to be innovative? Then put on more buses when needed and make it free, Action runs at a loss, but it’s a public service so why not just make it free and encourage people to use them all day. If the demand is there, then spend more justified money on exclusive lanes down the middle of Northbourne and the like. You can still improve parking where needed and keep it free or reasonable. The real tightwads and those who think they can make a difference to the environment will take the free buses. Realistic win-win.

Canberra is a small country town with no real population growth, so why wast money on unnecessary and over priced infrastructure. Whatever the ACT Gov projected cost is now, you know it will be at least tripled if ever completed.

Do the Anoraks really think normal people are going to drive half way across town to park at a light rail station to then wait around in the cold to catch an empty train to civic, that also stops in less places than the buses currently do, and then walk the rest? Really? As opposed to just drive into Civic in about the same or less time, park where they want, and with much more flexibility and convenience. We can’t compare Canberra to Sydney or Melbourne unless our commute times and problems are similar.

Canberra has peak minutes not hours, big deal, harden up. I’m not getting out of my car unless it costs me a hell of a lot less in both time and money. I still have to pay and maintain a car, so why wouldn’t I use it when the bus/rail is only going to cost me slightly less monetarily, but a whole lot more in time and effort.

Get real, accept reality.

Liam46 Liam46 6:11 pm 14 Jun 13

I can understand that a light rail is great idea and many have championed the cause for years, but, we don’t have a billion dollars, the federal government have shown they won’t chip in and a PPP has recently been ruled out by Barr. So financially its not viable , sorry but thats the plain truth and it needs to be spelled out.

arescarti42 arescarti42 1:25 pm 14 Jun 13

puggy said :

miz said :

I commute by bus nearly every day from Tuggers to Barton.

So you commute by bus from Tuggereanong to Barton and are commenting on the “lack of patronage” of buses on the Flemington/Northbourne corridor, on the other side of town. Sorry, that doesn’t work.

miz said :

Tuggeranong, BTW, does not have the benefit of ANY of the ‘Rapid’ buses;

Lie, an outright lie. The 3xx “Blue Rapid” buses are the the equivalent of the north’s “Red Rapid” buses. Sure, those not near the trunk route may not benefit much, but same as with the Red Rapid. I’ll agree though that it’s not as effective a service because the town centre is way off to the west of Tugg.

miz said :

Why should we pay for a duplication by light rail of a route already well served by bus, when other areas don’t even have proper bus coverage!

+1

There’s nothing like not letting inconvenient “facts” and “logic” get in the way of a selfish and ill-informed rant.

Not only does Tuggeranong have “Rapid” buses, but the rapid buses to Tuggeranong actually run twice as frequently (every 5-8 minutes) than the ones to Gungahlin and North Canberra (every 15 minutes).

puggy puggy 12:25 pm 14 Jun 13

miz said :

I commute by bus nearly every day from Tuggers to Barton.

So you commute by bus from Tuggereanong to Barton and are commenting on the “lack of patronage” of buses on the Flemington/Northbourne corridor, on the other side of town. Sorry, that doesn’t work.

miz said :

Tuggeranong, BTW, does not have the benefit of ANY of the ‘Rapid’ buses;

Lie, an outright lie. The 3xx “Blue Rapid” buses are the the equivalent of the north’s “Red Rapid” buses. Sure, those not near the trunk route may not benefit much, but same as with the Red Rapid. I’ll agree though that it’s not as effective a service because the town centre is way off to the west of Tugg.

miz said :

Why should we pay for a duplication by light rail of a route already well served by bus, when other areas don’t even have proper bus coverage!

Because maybe that would free up more buses to serve an area where light rail wouldn’t work so well, like Tuggeranong!

Sure, buses won’t work for everyone, and they can’t. I live where I do partly because it does have easy access to multiple transport options, car, bus, walking and yes, cycling. Canberra is growing beyond the size where you can live anywhere you want and work anywhere you want and expect it to be convenient.

poetix poetix 9:31 am 14 Jun 13

miz said :

arescarti said: ‘FFS, that could only come from someone who has never set foot on a bus.’ Wrong. You should not ASSume.
I commute by bus nearly every day from Tuggers to Barton. Tuggeranong, BTW, does not have the benefit of ANY of the ‘Rapid’ buses; in fact, Tuggeranong is far more poorly served by bus than the inner and northern suburbs. Why should we pay for a duplication by light rail of a route already well served by bus, when other areas don’t even have proper bus coverage!

I don’t think she’s happy with ANY money being spent outside the Big T.

miz miz 8:22 am 14 Jun 13

arescarti said: ‘FFS, that could only come from someone who has never set foot on a bus.’ Wrong. You should not ASSume.
I commute by bus nearly every day from Tuggers to Barton. Tuggeranong, BTW, does not have the benefit of ANY of the ‘Rapid’ buses; in fact, Tuggeranong is far more poorly served by bus than the inner and northern suburbs. Why should we pay for a duplication by light rail of a route already well served by bus, when other areas don’t even have proper bus coverage!

Diggety Diggety 8:40 pm 13 Jun 13

Liam46 said :

I have lived in Melbourne and the trams are superb, it works beautifully on a huge scale. Coming to Canberra I just think the current proposal , location , route , cost etc belongs in Disneyland. The cost and predicted patronage just don’t add up, sorry to be the bearer of realism. Please show support for Action buses, this is an existing realistic network which can be augmented and fine tuned.

+1

Liam46 Liam46 7:18 pm 13 Jun 13

I have lived in Melbourne and the trams are superb, it works beautifully on a huge scale. Coming to Canberra I just think the current proposal , location , route , cost etc belongs in Disneyland. The cost and predicted patronage just don’t add up, sorry to be the bearer of realism. Please show support for Action buses, this is an existing realistic network which can be augmented and fine tuned.

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