Ohh no light rail

Get real, accept reality.

You’re joking right?

This is a greenie stronghold – accepting reality is just not what we’re about.

I can understand that a light rail is great idea and many have championed the cause for years, but, we don’t have a billion dollars, the federal government have shown they won’t chip in and a PPP has recently been ruled out by Barr. So financially its not viable , sorry but thats the plain truth and it needs to be spelled out.

puggy said :

miz said :

I commute by bus nearly every day from Tuggers to Barton.

So you commute by bus from Tuggereanong to Barton and are commenting on the “lack of patronage” of buses on the Flemington/Northbourne corridor, on the other side of town. Sorry, that doesn’t work.

miz said :

Tuggeranong, BTW, does not have the benefit of ANY of the ‘Rapid’ buses;

Lie, an outright lie. The 3xx “Blue Rapid” buses are the the equivalent of the north’s “Red Rapid” buses. Sure, those not near the trunk route may not benefit much, but same as with the Red Rapid. I’ll agree though that it’s not as effective a service because the town centre is way off to the west of Tugg.

miz said :

Why should we pay for a duplication by light rail of a route already well served by bus, when other areas don’t even have proper bus coverage!

+1

There’s nothing like not letting inconvenient “facts” and “logic” get in the way of a selfish and ill-informed rant.

Not only does Tuggeranong have “Rapid” buses, but the rapid buses to Tuggeranong actually run twice as frequently (every 5-8 minutes) than the ones to Gungahlin and North Canberra (every 15 minutes).

miz said :

I commute by bus nearly every day from Tuggers to Barton.

So you commute by bus from Tuggereanong to Barton and are commenting on the “lack of patronage” of buses on the Flemington/Northbourne corridor, on the other side of town. Sorry, that doesn’t work.

miz said :

Tuggeranong, BTW, does not have the benefit of ANY of the ‘Rapid’ buses;

Lie, an outright lie. The 3xx “Blue Rapid” buses are the the equivalent of the north’s “Red Rapid” buses. Sure, those not near the trunk route may not benefit much, but same as with the Red Rapid. I’ll agree though that it’s not as effective a service because the town centre is way off to the west of Tugg.

miz said :

Why should we pay for a duplication by light rail of a route already well served by bus, when other areas don’t even have proper bus coverage!

Because maybe that would free up more buses to serve an area where light rail wouldn’t work so well, like Tuggeranong!

Sure, buses won’t work for everyone, and they can’t. I live where I do partly because it does have easy access to multiple transport options, car, bus, walking and yes, cycling. Canberra is growing beyond the size where you can live anywhere you want and work anywhere you want and expect it to be convenient.

miz said :

arescarti said: ‘FFS, that could only come from someone who has never set foot on a bus.’ Wrong. You should not ASSume.
I commute by bus nearly every day from Tuggers to Barton. Tuggeranong, BTW, does not have the benefit of ANY of the ‘Rapid’ buses; in fact, Tuggeranong is far more poorly served by bus than the inner and northern suburbs. Why should we pay for a duplication by light rail of a route already well served by bus, when other areas don’t even have proper bus coverage!

I don’t think she’s happy with ANY money being spent outside the Big T.

arescarti said: ‘FFS, that could only come from someone who has never set foot on a bus.’ Wrong. You should not ASSume.
I commute by bus nearly every day from Tuggers to Barton. Tuggeranong, BTW, does not have the benefit of ANY of the ‘Rapid’ buses; in fact, Tuggeranong is far more poorly served by bus than the inner and northern suburbs. Why should we pay for a duplication by light rail of a route already well served by bus, when other areas don’t even have proper bus coverage!

Liam46 said :

I have lived in Melbourne and the trams are superb, it works beautifully on a huge scale. Coming to Canberra I just think the current proposal , location , route , cost etc belongs in Disneyland. The cost and predicted patronage just don’t add up, sorry to be the bearer of realism. Please show support for Action buses, this is an existing realistic network which can be augmented and fine tuned.

+1

I have lived in Melbourne and the trams are superb, it works beautifully on a huge scale. Coming to Canberra I just think the current proposal , location , route , cost etc belongs in Disneyland. The cost and predicted patronage just don’t add up, sorry to be the bearer of realism. Please show support for Action buses, this is an existing realistic network which can be augmented and fine tuned.

Gungahlin Al said :

BicycleCanberra said :

Gungahlin Al said :

FFS, that could only come from someone who has never set foot on a bus.

The red rapid line is extremely well frequented throughout the day, and in peak periods it’s packed to the point where passengers at the Civic interchange literally can’t get on.

+1 for every single day I have to do the entire ride standing up wedged in between other people jammed right out to the door. “Lack of patronage” my lilly white arse! Lack of seats and lack of a clear run past gridlocked traffic more like.

ACTION should be using more of the Articulated buses for peak rapid routes rather than for school runs. And maybe they can try some bi – articulated buses as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee7QWjXyXZY

You will still have to stand up in light rail cars particularly at peak times don’t worry about that. Even in ass transit cities standing up is the norm I afraid.

Got your quotes a bit muddled there BC. The first 2 pars not mine, the 3rd one was mine.

Moving on, I agree that standing still happens on rail, but depending on good management, not very often. Daily commutes on heavy rail in Brissy…

But the big difference is that you aren’t constantly thrown around by leadfooted drivers like you are on Action buses. The ride on rail is entirely more comfortable, as the bigger mass requires more progressive acceleration/braking, and no charging of corners to beat red lights.

Gungahlin Al: And only the 3rd, 6th, 7th, and 8th paragraphs of this post were mine. What is going on with the quote tool?

I vote for bendy buses. But, we trick them out so they play accordion riffs at roundabouts and corners.
It would be like an oompah-fest everyday.

thebrownstreak69 said :

Gungahlin Al said :

Even in ass transit cities standing up is the norm I afraid.

Kinda ironic, isn’t it…?

Nor did I post this quote.

dungfungus said :

Ben_Dover said :

Gungahlin Al said :

The whole light rail idea is a white elephant on a scale which will make the tittycarp episode look like a minor embarrassment.

Well, light rail (City to Gungahlin return) was part of Labor and The Greens election promises and the people voted for it didn’t they.
It may be white elephant the way it is being considered but we also have a purple whale that flies.

So many tagging issues lately… I did NOT post either of the above quotes.

Gungahlin Al said :

Even in ass transit cities standing up is the norm I afraid.

Kinda ironic, isn’t it…?

Ben_Dover said :

Ben_Dover said :

We already have busses which do that far more frequently and cheaply than “light rail” ever could, why waste money on a toy train?

Still waiting for a rational rebuttal.

The new Action Scania Tag Steer rigid buses have a 9.290 litre diesel engine and they will carry a total of 91 passengers (sitting and standing).
A modern, self-propelled very light railcar can carry over 50% more passengers with a diesel engine one-third the size of the Scania bus.
At the end of the day, we will have a light rail or more buses.

Ben_Dover said :

Gungahlin Al said :

The whole light rail idea is a white elephant on a scale which will make the tittycarp episode look like a minor embarrassment.

Well, light rail (City to Gungahlin return) was part of Labor and The Greens election promises and the people voted for it didn’t they.
It may be white elephant the way it is being considered but we also have a purple whale that flies.

BicycleCanberra said :

Gungahlin Al said :

FFS, that could only come from someone who has never set foot on a bus.

The red rapid line is extremely well frequented throughout the day, and in peak periods it’s packed to the point where passengers at the Civic interchange literally can’t get on.

+1 for every single day I have to do the entire ride standing up wedged in between other people jammed right out to the door. “Lack of patronage” my lilly white arse! Lack of seats and lack of a clear run past gridlocked traffic more like.

ACTION should be using more of the Articulated buses for peak rapid routes rather than for school runs. And maybe they can try some bi – articulated buses as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee7QWjXyXZY

You will still have to stand up in light rail cars particularly at peak times don’t worry about that. Even in ass transit cities standing up is the norm I afraid.

Got your quotes a bit muddled there BC. The first 2 pars not mine, the 3rd one was mine.

Moving on, I agree that standing still happens on rail, but depending on good management, not very often. Daily commutes on heavy rail in Brissy…

But the big difference is that you aren’t constantly thrown around by leadfooted drivers like you are on Action buses. The ride on rail is entirely more comfortable, as the bigger mass requires more progressive acceleration/braking, and no charging of corners to beat red lights.

Gungahlin Al said :

FFS, that could only come from someone who has never set foot on a bus.

The red rapid line is extremely well frequented throughout the day, and in peak periods it’s packed to the point where passengers at the Civic interchange literally can’t get on.

+1 for every single day I have to do the entire ride standing up wedged in between other people jammed right out to the door. “Lack of patronage” my lilly white arse! Lack of seats and lack of a clear run past gridlocked traffic more like.

ACTION should be using more of the Articulated buses for peak rapid routes rather than for school runs. And maybe they can try some bi – articulated buses as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee7QWjXyXZY

You will still have to stand up in light rail cars particularly at peak times don’t worry about that. Even in ass transit cities standing up is the norm I afraid.

johnboy said :

In the scale of ACT Government $300,000 for something a lot of people like is no embarrassment at all.

Which is why the light rail, by comparison, will be a massive one.

johnboy said :

How’s your owl looking out belconnen way?

Like a huge hideous penis, it stands as yet another massive erect example of why the town council should have no greater responsibility than emptying bins, and should never be allowed to undertake massive construction projects.

Gungahlin Al said :

Look back over any number of previous threads. I for one am not going to be bothered restating it endlessly. I’ll wait until it’s running and have the last laugh thanks.

I’ll take that as; “there is no rebuttal which can be offered I’m afraid, so I’ll just bluff on an empty hand” then, shall I?

The whole light rail idea is a white elephant on a scale which will make the tittycarp episode look like a minor embarrassment.

Ben_Dover said :

Ben_Dover said :

We already have busses which do that far more frequently and cheaply than “light rail” ever could, why waste money on a toy train?

Still waiting for a rational rebuttal.

Look back over any number of previous threads. I for one am not going to be bothered restating it endlessly. I’ll wait until it’s running and have the last laugh thanks.

But would you settle for a spelling rebuttal instead? #buses #onlyoneS :-p

Ben_Dover said :

Ben_Dover said :

We already have busses which do that far more frequently and cheaply than “light rail” ever could, why waste money on a toy train?

Still waiting for a rational rebuttal.

You could be waiting a while for I don’t believe there is one.If we had say triple the population density along the route then one could perhaps justify its existence however until then we could spend the money more wisely eg. extensions to the AMC and sorting out the judicial system.

Ben_Dover said :

We already have busses which do that far more frequently and cheaply than “light rail” ever could, why waste money on a toy train?

Still waiting for a rational rebuttal.

dungfungus said :

In the 2006 ABS Census, there were a total of 181,873 jobs reported in the ACT.
Of these, 20,074 workers filling these jobs lived in the region (including Queanbeyan) and a further 3,299 workers lived outside the region (including Yass Valley).
Of the Canberra commuters who lived in Queanbeyan, 11,710 were driving their cars to work in Canberra and from Bungendore (Palerang region), 3,228 were driving their cars to work in Canberra.
As a matter of interest, 2,843 workers were driving their cars into Canberra from the Yass Valley region.
I accept your point that the figures I passed on for Bungendore are actually the whole of the Palerang region but most travel the same Kings Highway route into and out of Canberra anyway.
I have read reports from other sources that there is a 90% gridlock on the Kings Highway between Bungendore and Canberra in peak hours.
I think you would agree that the populations of Queanbeyan, Bungendore and the Palerang region has increased dramatically in the past 7 years so that is why I estimated todays figure at 12,000 and 5,000 cars respectively.
Take the HSR out of the equation as it will never happen – the airlines won’t allow it.

Nah, Palerang commuters come from Burra, Captains Flat, Carwoola, Wamboin and Bywong, via various roads – most of those don’t use the King’s Highway at all, or only a very short stretch of it (between Queanbeyan and the roundabout at the end of the Captains Flat Road). They use the Federal Highway, Norton Road, Sutton Road, Macs Reef Road etc. The ones using the King’s are coming mainly from Bungendore and Braidwood.

Mind you, I’m rapidly undermining my argument for a commuter rail service from Bungendore, so I should shut up now.

IP

Cool story bro.

Chop71 said :

Al,

I am actually a fan of light rail and think it’s about time Canberra grew up and finally had such infrastructure. Although I would prefer to see it run from Dickson to the city and Woden to the city and Belconnen to the city and then expand to the outer areas of Tuggeranong and Gungahlin and even West Belconnen

I think you will find that is why in the last election you saw such huge swings away from the government in the outer suburbs as existing residents seem to be forgotten (and they are expected to pay the bill).

I know you’re all for Gungahlin and doing everything for the community you represent but if you could look outside Gungahlin and maybe wait your turn.

Till then Monash Drive would be a viable alternative. (note I have not just had a rant, I even offered a possible solution)

Cheers
Chop

Fair enough Chop. Read like you were just promoting roads. I disagree on Monash though. It would be a half-billion dollar road that most likely will never be be needed now that light rail is being built.
On priorities, again it’s about the costs of the delay caused by alternate routes. The costs in road upgrades and the losses in higher sale prices for new land would significantly increase the cost of not doing Gungahlin first. But the Civic to Woden and Civic to Belco lines should definitely follow shortly afterwards (once people finally have the proof that it works and shut up). Both those lines will service populations moving into Stromlo/Molonglo, so the increased land revenue will off-set a lot of the construction cost. It’s only a hop to continue on to Tuggers then.

I point out that I don’t represent anywhere these days. I’m writing on what I believe is just plain logical. I know a lot of people in the older areas think all the spending is going to Gungahlin, but how do they think the people of the inner north/south felt for years when all the money was going into Woden, then into Belco, then into Tuggers? When a new area is being built, there are by extension large expenditures on asset construction in those areas. But that’s also where all the extraordinary revenue is coming from too – the land sales that prop up the annual budgets.

arescarti42 said :

miz said :

I agree, a spot on post – most of Canberra won’t get a jot of benefit and it’s a daft amount of money just to ‘look into it’, particularly given the lack of patronage on the buses that already take that route.

FFS, that could only come from someone who has never set foot on a bus.

The red rapid line is extremely well frequented throughout the day, and in peak periods it’s packed to the point where passengers at the Civic interchange literally can’t get on.

+1 for every single day I have to do the entire ride standing up wedged in between other people jammed right out to the door. “Lack of patronage” my lilly white arse! Lack of seats and lack of a clear run past gridlocked traffic more like.

miz said :

I agree, a spot on post – most of Canberra won’t get a jot of benefit and it’s a daft amount of money just to ‘look into it’, particularly given the lack of patronage on the buses that already take that route.

Compared to the cost of the GDE, congestion, parking, its not too bad.

arescarti42 said :

Antagonist said :

Barcham said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

We should build better roads and more parking then we won’t need public transport at all.

Or if we build better public transport, we won’t need as much parking?

Better parking will not need to be subsidised to the tune of $2m per month by the ACT taxpayer.

Bollocks.

What about the opportunity cost to the Government of using prime land in our town centres as surface car parks? If this was an economic use of land then why aren’t private businesses knocking down buildings to provide parking?

Dedicating prime land to such a low value use is a massive cost and subsidy from the government to car users.

You realise “thebrownstreak” comment is a troll, surely?

IrishPete said :

dungfungus said :

Leon said :

“Why do you think other city councils would never consider it, like Geelong, Woolongong or Gold coast or Bendigo for example.”

Bendigo had a light rail system, at least until about 20 years ago.

Geelong and Wollongong could be considered dormitory suburbs to Melbourne and Sydney respectively and they are both have access to good rail services which are well patronised.
Our main “dormitory” suburbs are Queanbeyan and Bungendore where about 12,000 and 5,000 cars travel two and from Canberra respectively most days. There is a railway line but no commuter service.
The ACT Greens claim they hate cars coming into Canberra and the Labor governmnet has plans to close down the railway station in Kingston. Neither party has heard of the term “modal shift” and by their inaction Canberra and the roads to our East are destined for long periods of gridlock.
So much for the recent “regional accord”.

Those figures seem high – Bungendore’s population is 2500. Even if you take Palerang’s population of 15000, I doubt 5000 cars drive into the ACT each day.

But your point stands, there is a lot of traffic into the ACT from the east – move the railway station to Civic, with a stop at Kingston or closer to the Parliamentary zone, and provide commuter rail services and park and ride in Bungendore, and we could take some of these cars off the Kings Highway.

The idea of putting the HSR in from the north wlikely kill the Queanbeyan and Bungendore rail line forever. In the meantime, it means the NSW Government is unlikely to invest in any upgrades (as if it ever was).

IP

In the 2006 ABS Census, there were a total of 181,873 jobs reported in the ACT.
Of these, 20,074 workers filling these jobs lived in the region (including Queanbeyan) and a further 3,299 workers lived outside the region (including Yass Valley).
Of the Canberra commuters who lived in Queanbeyan, 11,710 were driving their cars to work in Canberra and from Bungendore (Palerang region), 3,228 were driving their cars to work in Canberra.
As a matter of interest, 2,843 workers were driving their cars into Canberra from the Yass Valley region.
I accept your point that the figures I passed on for Bungendore are actually the whole of the Palerang region but most travel the same Kings Highway route into and out of Canberra anyway.
I have read reports from other sources that there is a 90% gridlock on the Kings Highway between Bungendore and Canberra in peak hours.
I think you would agree that the populations of Queanbeyan, Bungendore and the Palerang region has increased dramatically in the past 7 years so that is why I estimated todays figure at 12,000 and 5,000 cars respectively.
Take the HSR out of the equation as it will never happen – the airlines won’t allow it.

Antagonist said :

Barcham said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

We should build better roads and more parking then we won’t need public transport at all.

Or if we build better public transport, we won’t need as much parking?

Better parking will not need to be subsidised to the tune of $2m per month by the ACT taxpayer.

Bollocks.

What about the opportunity cost to the Government of using prime land in our town centres as surface car parks? If this was an economic use of land then why aren’t private businesses knocking down buildings to provide parking?

Dedicating prime land to such a low value use is a massive cost and subsidy from the government to car users.

miz said :

I agree, a spot on post – most of Canberra won’t get a jot of benefit and it’s a daft amount of money just to ‘look into it’, particularly given the lack of patronage on the buses that already take that route.

FFS, that could only come from someone who has never set foot on a bus.

The red rapid line is extremely well frequented throughout the day, and in peak periods it’s packed to the point where passengers at the Civic interchange literally can’t get on.

Barcham said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

We should build better roads and more parking then we won’t need public transport at all.

Or if we build better public transport, we won’t need as much parking?

Better parking will not need to be subsidised to the tune of $2m per month by the ACT taxpayer.

I agree, a spot on post – most of Canberra won’t get a jot of benefit and it’s a daft amount of money just to ‘look into it’, particularly given the lack of patronage on the buses that already take that route.

Ben_Dover said :

Chop71 said :

Al,

Although I would prefer to see it run from Dickson to the city and Woden to the city and Belconnen to the city and then expand to the outer areas of Tuggeranong and Gungahlin and even West Belconnen

We already have busses which do that far more frequenly and cheaply than “light rail” ever could, why waste money on a toy train?

Put it like that and I immediately want a toy train.

IP

Chop71 said :

Al,

I am actually a fan of light rail and think it’s about time Canberra grew up and finally had such infrastructure. Although I would prefer to see it run from Dickson to the city and Woden to the city and Belconnen to the city and then expand to the outer areas of Tuggeranong and Gungahlin and even West Belconnen

I think you will find that is why in the last election you saw such huge swings away from the government in the outer suburbs as existing residents seem to be forgotten (and they are expected to pay the bill).

I know you’re all for Gungahlin and doing everything for the community you represent but if you could look outside Gungahlin and maybe wait your turn.

Till then Monash Drive would be a viable alternative. (note I have not just had a rant, I even offered a possible solution)

Cheers
Chop

Personally I would start with a loop between the airport Civic and Alimentary Zone, primarily for tourists (who will pay more than commuters without complaining) but also providing short hop transport for residents/workers, and transport to and from the airport for everyone of course (sorry taxi drivers, but you’re inefficient and expensive for airport trips). Then gradually extend in various directions. Tourists will give light rail patronage outside of commuter hours that a commuter route generally will not.

Until branch lines were developed, it would mean Gungahlin residents, for example, could catch an express bus to Civic then hop on the light rail to a workplace in the Alimentary Zone or at Snowabella Profits Park and all points in between. (I keep seeing ACTion buses going in and out of Fairbarin, without any passengers – does anyone work there?)

Make it high tech enough and it could become a tourist attraction itself – driverless maglev anyone? (Mind you, they’ve been around for decades in civilised places, but they still seem “futuristic”).

IP

dungfungus said :

Leon said :

“Why do you think other city councils would never consider it, like Geelong, Woolongong or Gold coast or Bendigo for example.”

Bendigo had a light rail system, at least until about 20 years ago.

Geelong and Wollongong could be considered dormitory suburbs to Melbourne and Sydney respectively and they are both have access to good rail services which are well patronised.
Our main “dormitory” suburbs are Queanbeyan and Bungendore where about 12,000 and 5,000 cars travel two and from Canberra respectively most days. There is a railway line but no commuter service.
The ACT Greens claim they hate cars coming into Canberra and the Labor governmnet has plans to close down the railway station in Kingston. Neither party has heard of the term “modal shift” and by their inaction Canberra and the roads to our East are destined for long periods of gridlock.
So much for the recent “regional accord”.

Those figures seem high – Bungendore’s population is 2500. Even if you take Palerang’s population of 15000, I doubt 5000 cars drive into the ACT each day.

But your point stands, there is a lot of traffic into the ACT from the east – move the railway station to Civic, with a stop at Kingston or closer to the Parliamentary zone, and provide commuter rail services and park and ride in Bungendore, and we could take some of these cars off the Kings Highway.

The idea of putting the HSR in from the north wlikely kill the Queanbeyan and Bungendore rail line forever. In the meantime, it means the NSW Government is unlikely to invest in any upgrades (as if it ever was).

IP

When people refer to the ACT as a town council, or compare it to one, they are just being provocatively disparaging.

But in case they are being completely ignorant, no Council in Australia runs hospitals, schools, police (under contract in the ACT, but paid for by the ACT Government), Corrections, child protection, fire brigades, ambulance, national parks, etc. Some Councils may be in the business of social housing, but probably not to the extent the ACT is.

Because the ACT misses a level of government, it has responsibility for some roads (and other issues, but I’ll mention roads because this thread is transport-related) that, if it was a Council, would be someone else’s responsibility.

IP

Chop71 said :

Al,

Although I would prefer to see it run from Dickson to the city and Woden to the city and Belconnen to the city and then expand to the outer areas of Tuggeranong and Gungahlin and even West Belconnen

We already have busses which do that far more frequenly and cheaply than “light rail” ever could, why waste money on a toy train?

Al,

I am actually a fan of light rail and think it’s about time Canberra grew up and finally had such infrastructure. Although I would prefer to see it run from Dickson to the city and Woden to the city and Belconnen to the city and then expand to the outer areas of Tuggeranong and Gungahlin and even West Belconnen

I think you will find that is why in the last election you saw such huge swings away from the government in the outer suburbs as existing residents seem to be forgotten (and they are expected to pay the bill).

I know you’re all for Gungahlin and doing everything for the community you represent but if you could look outside Gungahlin and maybe wait your turn.

Till then Monash Drive would be a viable alternative. (note I have not just had a rant, I even offered a possible solution)

Cheers
Chop

i think the OP might be the same person that spent an hour berating me at Grill’d belco last night…

i note the op has made no further contribution to this thread

Damien Haas
Chair, ACT Light Rail

switch said :

HiddenDragon said :

beardedclam said :

poetix said :

I want a yellow Zeppelin.

You’re just fishing for Skywhale comments

There was that swishy monorail in Fahrenheit 451 – it would give passengers a closer view of the Skywhale……

I really want to say “boob-tube” in a comment now, to link Skywhale and London’s underground public transport, but I just can’t make it work. Someone help me out here, please.

Skywhale should be underground…

HiddenDragon said :

beardedclam said :

poetix said :

I want a yellow Zeppelin.

You’re just fishing for Skywhale comments

There was that swishy monorail in Fahrenheit 451 – it would give passengers a closer view of the Skywhale……

I really want to say “boob-tube” in a comment now, to link Skywhale and London’s underground public transport, but I just can’t make it work. Someone help me out here, please.

Chop71 said :

Gungahlin Al said :

BicycleCanberra said :

Chop71 said :

Why can’t they build 4 lanes of Monash Drive linking Flemington Road with Ainslie Avenue behind Watson, Hackett and Ainslie?

Perhaps because we have a perfectly usable corridor already reserved down the centre of Northborne for precisely this purpose? Courtesy of the foresight of Mr Griffin.

Al,

Can you tell me why then did Mr Griffin make Ainslie Avenue as wide as Northborne? Maybe he had the foresight to see a future government who was about to spend a Billion dollars on an overpriced tram and offered an alternative route into the city for a fraction of the price.

Chop

And BTW Chop, how much do you think such a road as you propose would cost to build exactly? Why is it that road/car fixates get up in arms about the cost of PT but don’t even blink at the cost of a road and additional parking at each end?

Chop71 said :

Gungahlin Al said :

BicycleCanberra said :

Chop71 said :

Why can’t they build 4 lanes of Monash Drive linking Flemington Road with Ainslie Avenue behind Watson, Hackett and Ainslie?

Perhaps because we have a perfectly usable corridor already reserved down the centre of Northborne for precisely this purpose? Courtesy of the foresight of Mr Griffin.

Al,

Can you tell me why then did Mr Griffin make Ainslie Avenue as wide as Northborne? Maybe he had the foresight to see a future government who was about to spend a Billion dollars on an overpriced tram and offered an alternative route into the city for a fraction of the price.

Chop

Ainslie Ave is one of the key axes with line of sight from the top of Mt Ainslie, like the other such key corridors. What you should be asking is how dare some previous ACT Govt allow a building to be built over such an important part of Canberra’s design.

HiddenDragon said :

beardedclam said :

poetix said :

I want a yellow Zeppelin.

You’re just fishing for Skywhale comments

There was that swishy monorail in Fahrenheit 451 – it would give passengers a closer view of the Skywhale……

Or maybe the Pinky-Ponk. I reckon the artist is a massive Iggle Piggle fan.

Gungahlin Al said :

BicycleCanberra said :

Chop71 said :

Why can’t they build 4 lanes of Monash Drive linking Flemington Road with Ainslie Avenue behind Watson, Hackett and Ainslie?

Perhaps because we have a perfectly usable corridor already reserved down the centre of Northborne for precisely this purpose? Courtesy of the foresight of Mr Griffin.

Al,

Can you tell me why then did Mr Griffin make Ainslie Avenue as wide as Northborne? Maybe he had the foresight to see a future government who was about to spend a Billion dollars on an overpriced tram and offered an alternative route into the city for a fraction of the price.

Chop

Canberroid said :

dungfungus said :

For this to happen, Corbell has to take off his Euro (not so light) Tram blinkers and look to lighter, catenary free self propelled trams.

So… self propelled like buses?

If there was a dedicated bus lane each way down the middle of Northbourne (instead of rail), imagine how much faster the bus from Gungahlin (or from the park and ride near EPIC) to Civic/Woden would be compared to current buses or cars. Make the bus lanes go right through to the roundabout at the end of Northbourne. Extend the bus lane around Parliament House a few hundred metres down the hill towards Civic to get buses through to Woden faster. It’d also be great for those who currently live near a bus route in north Canberra but aren’t in walking distance of the proposed rail line.

Why isn’t this happening?

Yes, self propelled like buses.
The visual pollution that overhead wires will create are not compatible with Canberra planning. Besides, electric trams need sub stations every 2 kms. And don’t be conned by “electricity being clean energy”. It has a large remote generating carbon footprint and lots of dirty steel, concrete, copper and aluminium is used in the delivery of energy and infrastructure.
The difference with light rail is it doesn’t mix it with cars and buses on the existing roads so they can travel non-stop at 70 kmh between dedicated stops.
And a “dedicated bus lane” necessitates building another road to carry the weight of 25 tonne buses so all the services under the median strip would have to be excavated and re-located the same as they will have to if a Gold Coast type Euro Tram is used.
The lighter self-propelled railcars do not need the heavy duty infrastructure.

So much fail in OP.

beardedclam said :

poetix said :

I want a yellow Zeppelin.

You’re just fishing for Skywhale comments

There was that swishy monorail in Fahrenheit 451 – it would give passengers a closer view of the Skywhale……

thebrownstreak69 said :

We should build better roads and more parking then we won’t need public transport at all.

Sorry but it doesn’t work, many cities have tried but all they get is congestion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPS1y81b1Bw&wide=1

thebrownstreak69 said :

We should build better roads and more parking then we won’t need public transport at all.

Or if we build better public transport, we won’t need as much parking?

dungfungus said :

For this to happen, Corbell has to take off his Euro (not so light) Tram blinkers and look to lighter, catenary free self propelled trams.

So… self propelled like buses?

If there was a dedicated bus lane each way down the middle of Northbourne (instead of rail), imagine how much faster the bus from Gungahlin (or from the park and ride near EPIC) to Civic/Woden would be compared to current buses or cars. Make the bus lanes go right through to the roundabout at the end of Northbourne. Extend the bus lane around Parliament House a few hundred metres down the hill towards Civic to get buses through to Woden faster. It’d also be great for those who currently live near a bus route in north Canberra but aren’t in walking distance of the proposed rail line.

Why isn’t this happening?

We should build better roads and more parking then we won’t need public transport at all.

poetix said :

I want a yellow Zeppelin.

spotto

Podcars! You know it makes sense.

poetix said :

I want a yellow Zeppelin.

You’re just fishing for Skywhale comments

Ben_Dover said :

Although the OP is badly phrased, the sentiment is spot on.

Why do we need to the town council*, ( spending all this money on something which is so unnecessary, and when we know they will;

a) screw it up hugely.
b) bring it in massively over budget.
c) neglect it once built.
d) ensure it costs the tax payer millions, when hardly any of us will ever use it.

God’s sake, buy us all a Segway each instead, cheaper and as much bloody use.

*this is all the Legislative assembly is, a glorified town council, anyone thinking otherwise is dreaming,.

You went to the same school as the OP, what are you trying to say here “Why do we need to the town council*”

Leon said :

“Why do you think other city councils would never consider it, like Geelong, Woolongong or Gold coast or Bendigo for example.”

Bendigo had a light rail system, at least until about 20 years ago.

Geelong and Wollongong could be considered dormitory suburbs to Melbourne and Sydney respectively and they are both have access to good rail services which are well patronised.
Our main “dormitory” suburbs are Queanbeyan and Bungendore where about 12,000 and 5,000 cars travel two and from Canberra respectively most days. There is a railway line but no commuter service.
The ACT Greens claim they hate cars coming into Canberra and the Labor governmnet has plans to close down the railway station in Kingston. Neither party has heard of the term “modal shift” and by their inaction Canberra and the roads to our East are destined for long periods of gridlock.
So much for the recent “regional accord”.

I want a yellow Zeppelin.

dungfungus said :

HiddenDragon said :

So where’s our $600 million?

Read comment # 4

Perhaps we could apply for admission to Eden-Monaro.

The Gold Coast Rapid Transit, if anyone’s interested.

“Why do you think other city councils would never consider it, like Geelong, Woolongong or Gold coast or Bendigo for example.”

Bendigo had a light rail system, at least until about 20 years ago.

HiddenDragon said :

So where’s our $600 million?

Read comment # 4

BicycleCanberra said :

Err… Gold Coast is building light rail! The cost $1 billion, with $600 million from the Federal Government. So we can spend billions on roads without an issue then when we spend money on public transport or walking/cycling its an outrage.

+1

Chop71 said :

Why can’t they build 4 lanes of Monash Drive linking Flemington Road with Ainslie Avenue behind Watson, Hackett and Ainslie?

Perhaps because we have a perfectly usable corridor already reserved down the centre of Northborne for precisely this purpose? Courtesy of the foresight of Mr Griffin.

So where’s our $600 million?

Although the OP is badly phrased, the sentiment is spot on.

Why do we need to the town council*, ( spending all this money on something which is so unnecessary, and when we know they will;

a) screw it up hugely.
b) bring it in massively over budget.
c) neglect it once built.
d) ensure it costs the tax payer millions, when hardly any of us will ever use it.

God’s sake, buy us all a Segway each instead, cheaper and as much bloody use.

*this is all the Legislative assembly is, a glorified town council, anyone thinking otherwise is dreaming,.

A Canberra light rail can happen for half the price and it can be extended to the Parliamentary triangle in the first stage.
For this to happen, Corbell has to take off his Euro (not so light) Tram blinkers and look to lighter, catenary free self propelled trams. Forget a duplication of the Gold Coast set up which is designed to service a much larger population and tourists.
Our light rail can be funded within the Territory and already industry experts have stated it is not a PPP proposition. If a PPP falls over (many have recently) then the ratepayers pick up the tab.
One thing to remember is if the light rail doesn’t happen, then more buses will be put on the road and the $2 million per month subsidy to Action that ratepayers currently pay out will increase commensurately so it is rapidly coming down to a choice between the two and more cars on the roads is not a solution.

Why can’t they build 4 lanes of Monash Drive linking Flemington Road with Ainslie Avenue behind Watson, Hackett and Ainslie?

BicycleCanberra said :

Err… Gold Coast is building light rail! The cost $1 billion, with $600 million from the Federal Government. So we can spend billions on roads without an issue then when we spend money on public transport or walking/cycling its an outrage.

We have had a Territory Labor government for 12 years (I think) and a Federal Labor government for 6 years. How much have the Feds contributed to us for our light rail?
Election soon so think “what can a marginal seat or two do for us?”

Are you serious? Canberra City Council, who are they? Do some research, then if you feel you need to express more opinions, have another go.

Thanks for sharing your incoherent and ill-informed view with us.

I believe that people who have no idea what they are talking about shouldn’t have the right to make public comment on an issue.

That’s my view.

Err… Gold Coast is building light rail! The cost $1 billion, with $600 million from the Federal Government. So we can spend billions on roads without an issue then when we spend money on public transport or walking/cycling its an outrage.