28 June 2009

On 2am taxis

| johnboy
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Last night I was leaving Civic at 2am, which means I’d already made some mistakes.

Looking at the line for taxis my first instinct was to just walk home.

But for reporting purposes I decided to give it a go.

And for a piece of civic infratructure relied on by thousands of Canberrans every week it truly is a disgrace.

One has to wonder that if it wasn’t being used by mostly young drunks at 2am something more would have been done long ago.

For a start it was raining lightly, and the line is uncovered.

While there was a little man in high visibility gear trying to organise proceedings he was overwhelmed by both the poor behaviour of tired drunks, and the logistics involved.

People couldn’t actually get into the taxis fast enough at the front of line, which meant there was a queue of people wanting taxis standing next to a queue of taxis waiting for passengers.

As the rain started to fall harder some enterprising souls just jumped into the taxi in front of them. Which is fine except that people who were further up the line and had been queueing for 10 minutes in the rain didn’t like this very much.

Short tempers, line jumping, tired people, loads of booze, it is a recipe for serious disaster.

The basic problem is having a single point of dispatch, which concentrates all the issues.

Just a thought but why not use all of the bus interchange and have the man in the high visibility gear direct taxis rather than people?

Separate ranks for South, North, and West would help people pool, using the taxis more efficiently. The divided queues would be small enough that people could fit under the bus shelters, and by splitting the crowd up the chances of tempers building would be significantly reduced.

Just a thought, if anyone in power cares.

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Jim Jones said :

Back when I was younger, I used to spend my cab money on shots and then just take the ambulance home.

First time I laughed out loud today. Thanx JJ!

Back when I was younger, I used to spend my cab money on shots and then just take the ambulance home.

Good times.

back when i was younger and actually drank, I walked from the pub to my home regularly. I lived in belconnen, drank at the horse, and staggered home. Moved to watson, drank in civic, staggered home. moved to tuggeranong, drank at the burns and kambah inn, staggered home. The difference was that I either caught the bus to the drinking hole, or walked. The car was always locked up in the garage, I never thought to take it, and I usually had no money by home time – who can catch a taxi with no money? I have events that i attend that put me out in civic at 2am. I will call the cabexpress people, they come to a designated pickup point, and i go home, no fights, no chundering drunks, no problems.

oh, and #36, the difference in cost between a taxi driver who knows canberra and someone who doesn’t, relying on the inebriated passenger, can often be very high. some drivers think they can fool a tourist into a larger fare, but they aren’t the older drivers, they are new and don’t get customer service… or my business.

All good ideas in theory JB, but I think in reality it might be a little more difficult.

1.) You will have to find Bus drivers that wanted to work crazy hours for not much reward. Taxi drivers usually get paid half of what ever they take in on a night. If they do $500 a night, they get $250 of that. Good incentive for dealing with drunk passengers, but for a bus driver?
2.) Who is going to deal with 50 drunk Passengers on a bus? The potential for things to turn nasty in a confined space is immense.
3.) If you had different queues for different areas, you will have to police the taxi drivers as well. I reckon some taxi drivers would be selectively choosing better fares. ie, Going down to Tuggies from Civic, would be heaps better than going from Civic to Dickson. There will be some queues that wouldn’t move then you would have people jumping into other queues , getting angry they are not being serviced, etc.

I don’t necessarily have better ideas, I am just thinking from another angle.

there are no new taxi companies in canberra…elite and silver service operate out of the same radio base in fyshwick, through the company called “Arial Capital Group”, which also has a dabble in the telcoms bussiness.

all taxi fares in canberra are the same, cabxpress or other wise.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

How long have you been working for them Peter?

VY, I worked for one of the owners who set them up. I don’t anymore. In fact, i stopped long before Cab express were established. I just like the idea of being able to speak to a human being when booking cabs for my exec management when they are in canberra. makes it easier to understand the timeframe between booking and pickup.

as the “new” companies appear in canberra, elite, silver service etc, it is nice to have an actual competitor to the aerial monopoly.

+1 for CabXpress. Always use them now, especially for airport bookings.

Cab Express tends to get quite a loyal fan base of customers, putting up with Aerial and their offshoots for years makes people appreciative of a normal taxi service like Cab Express.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy10:25 am 29 Jun 09

How long have you been working for them Peter?

I don’t wait at the queue from hell, on the rare occasions when i have been drinking. I have a mobile phone, and i don’t waste time calling canberra cabs – Cab express have my business, the staff are extremely helpful, and in my addled state, a human being is far better to discuss my needs with, rather than an automated system. The pickup site is usually somewhere easy to get to, and I am never treated as easy pickings by the driver.

I have driven and jockeyed in canberra for a taxi owner, i have seen some terrible behavior by drivers, sometimes unjustified, but cabexpress are a shining example of a new company trying to provide customer service to canberrans. It also seems that they are cheaper.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy9:01 am 29 Jun 09

Whenever the lads get together to enjoy a few, we always have a plan for how we are getting home. This plan rarely involves taxis.

The thing with night buses is that it takes years of consistent service for them to build as an institution.

(the same can be said of any bus service)

#23 – those costs struck me as very low. I did a bit of googling and found this: http://www.hansard.act.gov.au/hansard/2009/week04/1501.htm

According to that, the non-NYE nights cost ACTION just under $7k each, so 104 of those a year is more like $700k. Not sure if thats gross or net of revenue but even if its gross the revenue is pretty dismal – most nights there were about 150 pax total so about $750 or around 11% of the cost. Even on NYE there were only 1200 pax so even then only about half the cost was covered.

Still, even at $700k it could be argued this is a worthwhile investment and serves at least to get some drunks home safely and conveniently and helps somewhat with the queueing problems at the taxi rank. Would be even better if the buses were full, or even somewhere near half full.

Heres a novel idea. Levy the pubs and clubs in Civic a significant contribution towards the cost of providing adequate transport home. Make it a condition of having a liquor license extending past the end of normal public transport services. They then pass it onto their customers. User pays, simple – and the more you drink the more you pay.

Deadmandrinking10:34 pm 28 Jun 09

Sorry, sweetcakes, I was born here, I got family here, I’m gonna come back whenever I like 🙂

‘Us Locals’, like me, appreciate better services from the government they pay tax to. An effort like JB suggested would make nights out on the town a lot safer for everyone, as well as making the roads safer with less people thinking ‘screw it, I’ll drive’ after an hour of waiting and saving our cabbies precious time and money.

Deadmandrinking said :

rosebud said :

It’s like Canberra doesn’t really want people to live here at all sometimes. It’s a message: come here and work only. Then go away.

That’s my plan…screw this city for anything other than easy to get employment…

Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Its people like you us locals prefer elsewhere

sexynotsmart6:51 pm 28 Jun 09

(Rubs chin wistfully) Some years ago when I first came to Canberra, I remember queuing for cabs outside Academy.

Then one enchanted evening, I met a delightful young lady who walked me to the CopShop. She dialled for a cab and it arrived literally within minutes of the call.

The next Saturday I tried it myself, but the cab radio/telephone dude told me to go to a rank. And some months later (I had met the ball-and-chain by then) I asked LoveBumps to give it a go – magically, the cab arrived.

I think it was the combination of female voice asking for a cab from the Civic Watch House. It must get you on some sort of priority queue. I’m not sure if it still works. Will have to give it a go next SUMMER.

ahappychappy5:36 pm 28 Jun 09

dvaey said :

Considering the difference this would have on drink driving, and violence in the city, surely NRMA or the AFP can sponsor it a little. Probably better value than putting stupid ‘police targeting mobile phone users’ ads on the radio anyway. Dont just tell people drink driving is bad, give them a convenient alternative to driving their car home.

+1 – but surely those figures cannot be right… thousands of people would be jumping on those buses on a Saturday night at $5 a pop…

No-one in their right mind would spend $50 to get a cab over jumping on a bus for $5 which would be more entertaining anyway? Some of the best times I’ve had in the city have been on those night rider buses (sad I know…) but there is always some sort of entertainment.

A quick google, shows this issue (and the lack of a good bus service) has been on the governments mind for many years, even having had at least one RA thread on it in the past. Last year the Liberals released a document ‘Valuing Young People’ where the issue of late night transport was raised. The document suggests that the Night Rider service could be implemented for ‘approximately $120,000 per annum’ with a budgeted revenue of $40,000.

Considering the difference this would have on drink driving, and violence in the city, surely NRMA or the AFP can sponsor it a little. Probably better value than putting stupid ‘police targeting mobile phone users’ ads on the radio anyway. Dont just tell people drink driving is bad, give them a convenient alternative to driving their car home.

Hells_Bells744:58 pm 28 Jun 09

It’s nasty! Barely any of my going out crowd will go anywhere near it (specially the gay friends).. But I’ve used it on odd occasion and found the only plus side it ended up being quite a good ‘picking up’ line for me lol or just some interesting conversations or such.

In my times there when the police are attending it, the crowd gets more revved up or they just drive by looking a little smug.

I even had my son’s formerly Melbourne drunk dad when he lived here attack me verbally and then he threw a butter knife above my head in bed (made a lasting hole) all because I had dared to make him go in that taxi line, I should’ve known better than to make him do it (like I knew lol). We didn’t last much longer anyhow.

Deadmandrinking4:43 pm 28 Jun 09

rosebud said :

It’s like Canberra doesn’t really want people to live here at all sometimes. It’s a message: come here and work only. Then go away.

That’s my plan…screw this city for anything other than easy to get employment…

It’s like Canberra doesn’t really want people to live here at all sometimes. It’s a message: come here and work only. Then go away.

old canberran4:23 pm 28 Jun 09

Having been a taxi proprietor for a number of year in a mid north coast tourist type town, I can assure you that this problem is not unique to Canberra. The fault is not with the taxi operators. We had exactly the same problem very Friday and Saturday night. Taxis were never designed to move large lumps of people in a short space of time, that is the job for buses and buses don’t run at night. The bus service where we lived finished at 6pm and I suspect the Canberra buses finish before midnight.
If Canberra had 1,000 taxis on the road at 2am they still wouldn’t cope with the late night demand. For instance take the case of a cab which picks up in Civic to go to Macgregor. It takes probably 15 minutes to get there and another 15 minutes to get back to the rank in Civic empty. That’s half an hour that taxi is not available. In the same time a bus could take 40 people home.
I drove cabs part time in the late 50’s and early 60’s and it was the same then and I can assure you it’s no fun being a cabbie on the end of drunken abuse from irate passengers.

damnintellectuals4:11 pm 28 Jun 09

You just described the taxi scene 18 years ago. I’m amazed that nothing has been done.

Post #4 +1

Then the hospitals can reduce there waiting lists, and treat sick people, not drunk morons.

Deadmandrinking2:47 pm 28 Jun 09

And I should add that when you have 3 or 4 people with you, all off their heads, co-coordinating any kind of walk is going to be a little difficult. Someone is always going to be spilling their guts or passing out, someone else is going to be striking up conversations with random passer-bys about nothing and someone else is going to be getting lost all the time…it’s a massive effort after 4-5am.

i have on more than one occasion walked home (4km+) rather than wait in that bloody awful cab queue. it is a complete disgrace.

But the point is that cabs cost enough that why should you have to walk?

Deadmandrinking2:32 pm 28 Jun 09

It’s called being completely pissed, vg.

farnarkler said :

You should have gone to the casino cab rank.

x 2

For those that think its a little bit ‘too much of a walk (??)’ I’d hate to see how you’d react to doing any real exercise.

I have never waited in the City Cab rank. Casino cab rank is far quieter and generally a better class of bogan.

Too far to walk to the Casino rank, I don’t think I’ve ever heard lazier. Its about 500m

Remember when we had a late night bus? You could go into Civic for a night out, then catch a bus home for $5, no huge queues, no unknown wait-times (they were all timetabled) and more dispersed travellers rather than all congregating in one location.

Remember who the biggest complainer about this night bus service was? Thats right, the taxi service, complaining that with such a great bus service often going close to your door, people weren’t prepared to spend $50 to catch a cab home.

Surely, encouraging people to catch a bus to/from civic would not only reduce drink driving, but simply reduce the number of cars on the road and in the carparks. Bringing back the Night-Rider service, would help the police, the public, infact, basically it would solve every problem except for the cabbies whinging about lost fares (which they cant even keep pace with on a fri/sat night anyway).

Deadmandrinking1:36 pm 28 Jun 09

farnarkler said :

Deadmandrinking the time it takes to walk to the casino rank from the Phoenix if comparable to the time taken waiting with the knuckle draggers in the civic rank. I just prefer the to miss out on the circus that is the civic rank.

That’s true, but it depends how drunk and lazy you are…but if the taxi rank could just be quicker…

Deadmandrinking the time it takes to walk to the casino rank from the Phoenix if comparable to the time taken waiting with the knuckle draggers in the civic rank. I just prefer the to miss out on the circus that is the civic rank.

ahappychappy1:13 pm 28 Jun 09

The line last night wasn’t as bad as usual… some nights you wait a good hour or two to get a taxi. Unfortunatley, this is the system the taxi companies have decided to take on. If you call the cab hotline they just tell you to move to the interchange cab rank, and the other cab ranks (outside Academy and the Casino) are usually empty as all the cabs move to the interchange.

The problem doesn’t stem from the system, the problem stems from the fact that authorities think that two old fellas in high-vis jackets can control thousands of drunks wanting to go home. Perhaps some authority needs to be in place instead of two old blokes trying to do the best they can. The police usually inhabit that area of the interchange anyway, is it hard to wander over to the cab rank and stand there instead of on the other side of the road? Maybe that would help reduce the amount of trouble.

Deadmandrinking1:05 pm 28 Jun 09

farnarkler said :

You should have gone to the casino cab rank.

Yeah, I used to do that when toast was still going, and I still do if I got to the Church/Transit bar or whatever it is now. But when you’re in the main part of the city near the pheonix and ‘those’ places that you only go into when the bars are shut, it’s a bit of a walk.

Stonedwookie, it wouldn’t really be much of an extra hassle to divide up the queue, plus it would save time for both the customers and especially the drivers, who rely on time to make their money…

Piratemonkey1:00 pm 28 Jun 09

@stonedwookie…

I believe you will find the vast majority of people in that line are mostly at least mentally young adolescents not the adults that would reflect the body they are inhabiting.

Common sense isnt likely.

You should have gone to the casino cab rank.

Piratemonkey12:56 pm 28 Jun 09

*Safety oops.

Then again if the cops simply arrested everyone in civic who are drunk and disorderly. Plus fine them $1000 bucks for the service to cover costs(police not criminal record btw) the taxi line might not be so bad. Hell make it $1500 think of the revenue.

stonedwookie12:56 pm 28 Jun 09

how about adults growing up?
not having a whinge because they couldnt get 2 a taxi first
a line for taxi’s? do they have this in other citys?

Deadmandrinking12:50 pm 28 Jun 09

That’s a really, really good idea, Johnboy. I like the idea of south north and west sides of the interchange. Perhaps they could just split them up into town centres. Have a platform for belconnen, a platform for north canberra/gunghalin, south canberra/queanbo (if anyone ever taxis back there?), woden/weston and tuggeranong. Just have more taxis directed at the longer queues.

Piratemonkey12:49 pm 28 Jun 09

I would love to know how many people decided against waiting in the line in the rain and walked back to their car and drove home drunk? Then add the constant fights..

One would think the police would be pushing for a better system. It would solve alot of problems for them.

I do like the separate rank idea johnboy.

I think a surcharge for civic pickup after hours should be introduced. Introduced by someone other then the taxi companies who cannot organise for the life of them btw. $2 dollars per fare out of that spot after mightnight would surely pay for some security guards, surveillance and basic infastructure/ organisation.

Saftey and convenience will mean more people use the service and more taxis will feel safe to pickup in civic. Most importantly there will be less drunks on the road.

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