Skip to content Skip to main navigation

On bus lanes, with Katy Gallagher

johnboy 17 February 2012 29

screenshot

Chief Minister Gallagher has weighed in on the bus lane v T2 debate (bearing in mind that the “one nation on wheels” courting Liberals are mad keen for T2’s).

Katy is citing research purportedly hidden somewhere on the TAMS website, showing T2’s are kind of useless, but bus lanes are grand!

“Surveys undertaken during the morning peak period along Barry Drive, show that 1800 people were being moved in 31 buses along the corridor between 7.45 am and 9.15 am. This made up around 25% of all people travelling during that period, with that figure expected to increase over time.

“What the AECOM review found is that the installation of a T2 lane would reduce the average speed of a bus, thus reducing its attractiveness as a transport option, which potentially could lead to more cars on the road, not less,” the Chief Minister said.

The report recommends the development of guidelines for the appropriate location and uses for transit and bus lanes across the Territory which take into consideration factors such as traffic safety, congestion and transport sustainability.

“The report shows that it is too simplistic for people to look at a bus lane and say it looks empty, when in actual fact it carries a significant proportion of people – and in quicker time than adjacent traffic lanes.

“For example, on Adelaide Avenue, the report found that the T2 lane provides less than a 15 second benefit to motorists in peak periods.

“The report also confirmed there were potential issues with drivers merging in and out of the Adelaide Avenue transit lane and additional safety measures which will need to be investigated,” the Chief Minister said

UPDATE: Thanks the TAMS staff for pointing us at the report


What's Your Opinion?


Please login to post your comments, or connect with
29 Responses to On bus lanes, with Katy Gallagher
Filter
Order
gooterz 6:50 pm 05 Apr 13

15 seconds?

How many minutes does the lights at Kingsley St add to the bus?

Buses have to stay left, then only trigger the lights when they get to the lights to BLOCK ALL OTHER TRAFFIC to turn right.

IF they want to make the buses go faster why do they keep adding useless stops?

Tenpoints 5:53 pm 05 Apr 13

^^Erk, sorry that was meant for the other thread, please delete.

Tenpoints 5:49 pm 05 Apr 13

Alderney said :

Rule 77 only applies to a bus leaving a bus stop.

Merging is rule 149.

They have no ‘right’ to barge in in any other circumstance.

Interestingly, I’ve noticed that to enter these ‘bus lanes’ the bus needs to cross an unbroken line. At least they do at Athllon & Hindmarsh going towards Woden.

So, are they legally entitled to enter the lane?

77 Giving way to buses

(1) A driver driving on a length of road in a built-up area, in the left lane or left line of traffic, [b]or in a bicycle lane on the far left side of the road, must give way to a bus in front of the driver if:
[b](a) the bus has stopped, or is moving slowly, at the far left side of the road, on a shoulder of the road, or in a bus-stop bay[/b], and
(b) the bus displays a give way to buses sign and the right direction indicator lights of the bus are operating, and
(c) the bus is about to enter or proceed in the lane or line of traffic in which the driver is driving.

Rule 77 applies in the above case, that is a bus leaving the far left side of the road, whether designated bus stop or not.

Not sure on whether they are legally allowed to cross unbroken lines to enter into the bus lane, but if it’s the only way to physically move you bus into the lane is by doing just that then I would hazard a guess that… yes?

chewy14 12:25 pm 20 Feb 12

davo101 said :

chewy14 said :

And can you point out exactly where in the report it says that having three lanes open provides a 15 sec benefit to cars compared to two lanes?

Table 17 page 38. Travelling at the speed limit it would take a driver 184.5 seconds to travel 4.1 km. According to the survey it takes an average of 201.2 seconds. So if you had an unlimited number of lanes available the average trip time would fall by 16.7 seconds (provided every driver could maintain an average equal to the speed limit).

An unlimited number of lanes isn’t three lanes.

Winter said the benefit was from two lanes to three lanes. I can’t find that in the report.

davo101 11:19 am 20 Feb 12

chewy14 said :

And can you point out exactly where in the report it says that having three lanes open provides a 15 sec benefit to cars compared to two lanes?

Table 17 page 38. Travelling at the speed limit it would take a driver 184.5 seconds to travel 4.1 km. According to the survey it takes an average of 201.2 seconds. So if you had an unlimited number of lanes available the average trip time would fall by 16.7 seconds (provided every driver could maintain an average equal to the speed limit).

Innovation 10:52 am 20 Feb 12

I think the hour glass scenario is a good explanation. However, if adding a few extra vehicles will not impede bus flow significantly then I don’t see the problem. If T2 does cause a problem (now or ever in the future) then make the lane T3 and so on. At least the lane’s fundamental purpose of moving commuters in bulk would be achieved.

#23 Aenveigh – according to my brief read of the report, the concept of T4 doesn’t exist in Aus national road rules. The fact that it doesn’t exist yet seems a pretty odd reason to permanently dismiss it. What about other multi occupant vehicle concepts such as T5, T6 or T7? Anything would be better than nothing.

Aenveigh 9:30 am 20 Feb 12

Road_Monkey said :

In other cities T2 lanes are widely used as they are the best solution.

Many cities have started with T2 but are beginning to make them T3, T4 or transit-exclusive as congestion worsens. There’s no harm in starting as bus-only if the figures add up, which it seems like they do on that corridor.

Given that statistic that 1 bus lane carries 48% of all people travelling to Civic should show the value of transit to car congestion. There’s a similar stat that the bus lane on the Syd Harbour Bridge carries more people than the other 7 lanes combined. Transit only lanes increase capacity, they don’t make it worse.

Aeek 3:31 pm 19 Feb 12

Road_Monkey said :

Remember that there are many more motorists registered to vote than bus commuters.

I drive way more than I catch the bus, and can see that making the Barry bus lane a T2 is worse than useless. It will just shift the problem towards the City where it is already more complicated.

Freeing up the GDE is doing wonders for Parkes Way!

Road_Monkey 12:58 pm 19 Feb 12

I suppose AECOM are producing a report stating what the government wants to hear since the government funded the report. I like the comment about T2 lanes slowing down the buses. I notice when I drive along Adelaide Avenue the buses do well over 80kph. My speedo shows 83kpk, my GPS indicates 80kph and the buses just zoom by. Sounds like they want the buses to speed and break the law or are buses exempt from speed limits?

In other cities T2 lanes are widely used as they are the best solution.

Watch Katy back pedal if this starts to look unpopular on the lead up to the election. Remember that there are many more motorists registered to vote than bus commuters.

Frustrated 1:27 pm 18 Feb 12

A better idea, is to send all you blow-ins from Country NSW and the like back where you came from.

Canberra’s roads were perfectly fine until the population here exploded. No such thing as a T2 lane on Adelaide Ave for example until the late 90s.

Aeek 8:18 pm 17 Feb 12

on Page 4

Traffic can legally enter and leave the T2 lanes at any location even though they cross an unbroken line. This exemption to crossing unbroken lines is considered an undesirable and confusing feature of the Australian Road Rules (it is an generally an offence to cross an unbroken line and in the view of the authors of this report such exemptions to general criteria lead to broader driver non compliance).

Innovation 6:54 pm 17 Feb 12

As far as Adelaide Ave/Yamba Dr is concerned the recommendation seems to be a bus only lane because of the proposed bus station under the Cotter Road overpass. This would allow buses at the station to safely reenter the transit lane without having to give way to traffic already in the transit lane on their left blindspot.

This would suggest that:

1/ motorbikes (of all sizes), taxis and out of service buses should not be allowed to use the lane and in service buses should be forced to use that lane only.

2/ the lane would not be changed from a T2 lane to a bus only lane until the bus station under the Cotter Road overpass is constructed.

damien haas 4:23 pm 17 Feb 12

aidan said :

I’m not planning on reading the whole thing, but when I skimmed it this passage grabbed my attention:

“Currently, buses constitute a small percentage (1.8%) of all vehicles on Flemington Road, yet they carry about half (46.6%) of all persons travelling on Flemington Road.”

That says it all really.

Yes it does. These buses are also often at capacity – with full buses not stopping to collect more passengers waiting at other bus stops.

damien haas 4:21 pm 17 Feb 12

When driving on Los Angeles freeways, i often use the transit lanes. There is a minimum speed, i think its 40 or 50 mph while in the lane. They are used heavily by cars with three or more passengers.

dpm 3:21 pm 17 Feb 12

winter said :

chewy14 said :

Primal said :

So if the Adelaide Ave T2 “provides less than a 15 second benefit to motorists in peak periods”… does this mean the bus lane provides only a 15 second benefit to the buses???

Exactly, why do they need a bus lane at all if it’s only 15 seconds?

Or was this report written starting with the conclusions?

More likely the report wasn’t meant to be read by morons. The report doesnt say that the dedicated bus lane provides a 15 second benefit to buses, only that having 3 lanes open instead of two provides a 15 second benefit to cars.

I’m assuming the morons would be people like the ABC journo who said: “A new report has found a transit lane for car-pooling motorists and buses on Canberra’s Adelaide Avenue provides little difference in travel time compared with the general traffic lanes” under the heading “Adelaide Ave T2 lane ‘saves 15 secs'”?

chewy14 3:16 pm 17 Feb 12

winter said :

chewy14 said :

Primal said :

So if the Adelaide Ave T2 “provides less than a 15 second benefit to motorists in peak periods”… does this mean the bus lane provides only a 15 second benefit to the buses???

Exactly, why do they need a bus lane at all if it’s only 15 seconds?

Or was this report written starting with the conclusions?

More likely the report wasn’t meant to be read by morons. The report doesnt say that the dedicated bus lane provides a 15 second benefit to buses, only that having 3 lanes open instead of two provides a 15 second benefit to cars.

Morons like Katy Gallagher?

And can you point out exactly where in the report it says that having three lanes open provides a 15 sec benefit to cars compared to two lanes?

rhino 2:53 pm 17 Feb 12

HenryBG said :

rhino said :

chewy14 said :

Primal said :

So if the Adelaide Ave T2 “provides less than a 15 second benefit to motorists in peak periods”… does this mean the bus lane provides only a 15 second benefit to the buses???

Exactly, why do they need a bus lane at all if it’s only 15 seconds?

Or was this report written starting with the conclusions?

Quite likely. Seems a waste of millions if that is all the savings you get for the occasional bus coming along.

I don’t see how making it a T2 slows down the buses. The buses would be travelling slower than the cars and accelerating slower than the cars. There wouldn’t be a massive amount of cars in the lane and it encourages people to car pool which halves the number of cars on the road if they go from 1 to 2 passengers.

I see you’ve failed to spot the donkeys who swing into the T2 lane and then proceed to hold everybody up by driving to slowly.

I haven’t seen that myself. But I reckon the speed limit should be the minimum in the T2 lane haha. Any lower and you get fined 😛 And you have a limited time to accelerate up to speed.

random 2:48 pm 17 Feb 12

random said :

OK, explain to this moron

Never mind, I am a moron. But the time surveys for the dedicated bus lanes (Barry Drive and Flemington Road) also show only a very small decrease in trip time.

random 2:45 pm 17 Feb 12

winter said :

More likely the report wasn’t meant to be read by morons. The report doesnt say that the dedicated bus lane provides a 15 second benefit to buses, only that having 3 lanes open instead of two provides a 15 second benefit to cars.

OK, explain to this moron why it explicitly says, in the Adelaide Avenue case: “The results of the surveys completed during both the AM and PM peak periods along Adelaide Avenue would suggest that currently the designated T2 transit lane that stretches for approximately 4.5km in both directions of the corridor provide little journey time savings to the users when compared to the general traffic lanes. However, the transit lane does provide the user with a reliable travel time and consistent travel speed for the duration of the corridor.”

This is in the context of table 14, which shows that in the morning, vehicles travelling in the bus lane went the 4.5km stretch in 8 seconds less than vehicles in the other lanes. Table 17 shows that it was 14.2 seconds less in the evening.

RaTTyRaTT 2:18 pm 17 Feb 12

Adelaide Avenue provides 15seconds in peak time??? ROFLMAO. Sure, I will remember that when I shave a good 5 – 10 mins off my trip home. Remember people – 5 mins is the new 15 seconds… (is that like the old NSW Labor party changing the ‘train on time’ metric to allow for a greater window??? LMAO)

CBR Tweets

Sign up to our newsletter

Top
Copyright © 2019 Region Group Pty Ltd. All rights reserved.
the-riotact.com | aboutregional.com.au | b2bmagazine.com.au | thisiscanberra.com

Search across the site