On the buses

I’ll take that as amusing sarcasm

You can take it with a fried egg on top for all I care – I very, very obviously wasn’t talking about you.

cartdog said :

Bring back the MAN buses I say.

The 30 most recent buses delivered to ACTION are in fact MANs. And there’s about sixty more on the way.

Maybe not as good as the old MAN SL200’s but hey, the new ones have air con.

Will, this is the current fleet and its details regarding seating. From reading the codes, this is what I understand them to be. From oldest in the current fleet to newest in the fleet, then Midi Buses, then Articulated. Cannot find details regarding the Mercedes Benz 0305, 0305G, MAN SL200 and Leyland National seating figures.

Renault (MACK) PR100.2 mkI – 42
Renault (MACK) PR100.2 mkII – 43
Renault (Some badged MACK) PR100.3 – 49
Irisbus (Renault) Agoraline – 46 (However only has one door)
Scania L94UB CNG – 45
MAN 18.310 & 18.320 – 45

Dennis Dart SLF Midi Bus – 27

Renault (MACK) PR180.2 Articulated mkI – 60-65 depending on the fleet number
Renault (MACK) PR180.2 Articulated mkII – 69

Air Conditioned buses are not exactly few and far between, however when they are allocated to routes, or a drivers shift, they generally flow so they are found more often than not on the Intertown or those services which require a Low Floor Bus (And there is patronage for something more than a midi bus). Some buses are allocated to a driver for their shift, then you have ones which will have a type allocated to them (CNG Bus or Midi for example). They are the ones the drivers have to take, then everyone else basically gets whatever is left over. Buses allocated are allocated for a reason, and the Air Con buses are generally allocated first to the Intertown. Air Con breaking down is rare (It does not happen constantly, nor consistantly enough for it to be anything other than a maintenance issue placing the bus out of service for 1 or maybe 2 days), and when it is broken down it is generally fixed by next day or within a few days, and the bus is not often in service with one broken (I Stress not often). If anyone has a problem with aircon, they can always complain on 13 17 10, or email into ACTION advising them of the fault with the vehicle if you feel the desire. My route is serviced by mostly non-aircon buses, as are all the others around me. Hell I travelled on a non-aircon the other day and sure it was hot, but I have been in worse conditions. I mean, I have survived 21 Canberran summers, and endured school buses fuller than most Xpresso’s or Intertowns in heat about the same (maybe more) without complaint.

It is intresting you say that cartdog, because that is what a bus driver said to me, bigger buses less doors (no back door, which is relatively odd) and less seating

Is it just me, or are our buses coming out with less and less seating?

Bring back the MAN buses I say.

I catch the same bus route every day. The 39 to Civic and then the 2 Deakin, and back again.

As I catch the buses every day I know which times the buses will be that have air conditiong. It seems to me (but of course this could be generalising) that in this case the same buses service the route, or at least the same type of buses at the same times.

All this means is that I know what time I need to be catching the bus to avoid the largest group of people, and also the best time to catch an air conditioned bus. If you know your trip, then you will know what buses arrive when and it is generally a nice surprise if there is an air-conditioned bus. My 39 route is less likely to have an airconditioned bus because (probably) they are harder to move in the smaller streets.

I must admit I haven’t truly experienced air conditioning that was broken but then again I am not lucky enough to be catching a 300 bus to Woden. (They nearly always get air conditioned buses in peak hour). But I have always wondered why the buses’ windows in Canberra are the small open on the inside windows, in my native Newcastle they are slidey windows. But I have learnt to adapt.

By the by I experienced what I believe the height of rudeness on a bus the other day.

1. It was hot
2. the bus was getting full.

A man who refused to move to the back to accommodate other people loudly berated the driver for allowing other people on the bus (there was plenty of room), because it was too hot. When the driver was just trying to be helpful to the people heading to the far reaches of the bus route.

He (the passenger) then proceeded to loudly complain for the remainder of the time that he spent on the bus about how hot it was and the amount of people on the bus (in peak hour on the only route that goes to a particlar part of Watson- so eyerolls were made at him). It made me want to ask him what he expected from public transport, as it is not a Chauffeur driven experience, and of course to grow up a little.

Personally I like to feel like the bus is being used to its full extent, and a little bit of discomfort to get me home for less then the price of a tank of petrol is perfectly fine. And like someone has already said, if I really objected I would ride my bicycle to work.

It would actually be more interesting to see which routes had a higher incidence of air-conditioned buses being used.

Let’s get this straight:

Observing said :

They don’t fix the air con on some routes at all and haven’t for weeks.

Observing said :

And the same non air-conditioned buses are used for the same route. I travel on it regularly. Its (sic) the same bus. Same id number. Same driver. I swear, there are some people that shut their ears and eyes and refuse to except (sic) reality even when its (sic) standing right in front of them.

So to support your claim that “they don’t fix the air con on some routes”, you then claim that you regularly catch the same non-airconditioned bus route. How can they “fix” the a/c on a bus that doesn’t have a/c fitted?

If what you actually meant was that some routes (or “trips” – a single instance of a particular route) are regularly operated by non-air conditioned buses, then you’ll get no argument from me. As the Americans say: do the math. ACTION has approx 100 air conditioned buses from a fleet of about 400. (Source: Wikipedia and this website)

Mordd said :

Personally I take issue with them locking all the windows shut on buses whenever they put aircon in them in the first place.

My best suggestion is carry an allen key with the right size to unlock the bus windows, then if you’re on a packed bus just go for it, like the driver is going to notice anyway with that many people jammed onboard during peak half-hour.

The rear windows are locked on buses fitted with air conditioning because to open them when the air conditioning is on reduces the a/c’s efficiency. Despite this, passengers do from time to time force them open and break the locks in doing so.

The window locks cannot be opened with an allen key. A better solution if you are on an air conditioned bus when the a/c is not working is to pop open the roof hatch. But don’t do it if the a/c is working.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

i had to catch the bus once or twice and it was hot and i want to whinge even though i’m never catching the bus again because i have childcare responsibilities and i hope my car doesn’t get hot tomorrow or i will have to start hiring a refrigerated truck around or omg i will like totally throw up and a moving bus with the windows open is exactly the same as a parked car with the windows up the laws of physics don’t apply to me don’t make me call somebody about this

I’ll take that as amusing sarcasm, since none of that applies to me. Catch the bus regularly; hardly ever whinge unlike other regular posters; have no childcare responsibilities; don’t care about my car getting hot because its easy to wind down the windows; and a bus with closed windows and jammed with people has nothing to do with a bus with open windows.

Ryan said :

Observing said :

I think that comment comes from someone that is either a) trolling or b) never taken an ACTION bus.

Given he owns this website, I’d go with option c) Neither.

Observing said :

They use the same buses for the same route at a scheduled time. As someone mentioned, bus drivers choose their favourite buses and keep using them.

Buses are allocated to drivers at the depots, at least until about 4-5pm. Before that time, they get no say in what they take. All buses with bike racks (which is every air-con bus and a handful of the older ones) are allocated set shifts. If the driver on your route hasn’t got a bike rack bus, chances are its a rarity you’ll ever see an aircon bus on that route on the particular run that you catch.

Observing said :

especially since I’ve noticed often windows are not opened

Surely not that hard to reach up and open it?

So you have amazing plastic arms that open up windows across several sitting people? Wow, you should use those skills for profit! Think about the realitities of bus travel before making that comment. And before you say “You could ask” that often does not work. You can ask until you turn blue (or red in this case) and they often don’t do it.

Observing said :

We get a few days around the 40 mark each year, so I’d say they are used to it.

Not in my experience. Not for the length of time with the number of days in a row that we’ve had with the high minimums. They are certainly not an ‘every year’ thing to happen.

And the same non air-conditioned buses are used for the same route. I travel on it regularly. Its the same bus. Same id number. Same driver. I swear, there are some people that shut their ears and eyes and refuse to except reality even when its standing right in front of them.

Anyway, looks like my answer is definitely a) trolling by the looks of it.

NickD Yes so is my car, I don’t have airconditing, and put up with the heat, I try and park somewhere shady so I don’t come back to a hot car.

While it will be good to see the back of the old non-air conditioned buses, it’s worth noting that the temperatures in these buses are fairly comfortable for about 9 months of the year (unless you sit in the seat on top of the heater during winter).

UrbanAdventure.org said :

I was wondering why so many obviously ex-canberra Renault / Mack buses have been turning up on bus sales web sites.

They’re french buses, and getting spare parts for them is getting much harder. A lot of companies that have bought exACTION Renaults would probably buy them for parts.

I wonder where most people sit when they complain of the heat? I sit up the very back with the windows open & the roof hatch the right way (back end downwards) & it feels cool enough going along Adelaide Avenue.

However ACTION could of put air conditioning in the Renaults as this is the path that Perth went with their Renaults. But then again it is Canberra & how many very hot days do with have?

I was wondering why so many obviously ex-canberra Renault / Mack buses have been turning up on bus sales web sites. They look very nice in white. Need a bus for your own “The Italian job” style bank heist? You too can buy your very own ex-Canberra work horse.

i had to catch the bus once or twice and it was hot and i want to whinge even though i’m never catching the bus again because i have childcare responsibilities and i hope my car doesn’t get hot tomorrow or i will have to start hiring a refrigerated truck around or omg i will like totally throw up and a moving bus with the windows open is exactly the same as a parked car with the windows up the laws of physics don’t apply to me don’t make me call somebody about this

Observing said :

I think that comment comes from someone that is either a) trolling or b) never taken an ACTION bus.

Given he owns this website, I’d go with option c) Neither.

Observing said :

They use the same buses for the same route at a scheduled time. As someone mentioned, bus drivers choose their favourite buses and keep using them.

Buses are allocated to drivers at the depots, at least until about 4-5pm. Before that time, they get no say in what they take. All buses with bike racks (which is every air-con bus and a handful of the older ones) are allocated set shifts. If the driver on your route hasn’t got a bike rack bus, chances are its a rarity you’ll ever see an aircon bus on that route on the particular run that you catch.

Observing said :

especially since I’ve noticed often windows are not opened

Surely not that hard to reach up and open it?

Observing said :

You can tell people from Canberra are not used to this heat

We get a few days around the 40 mark each year, so I’d say they are used to it.

Personally I take issue with them locking all the windows shut on buses whenever they put aircon in them in the first place. Chances are the aircon will not be working on numerous occasions during a bus’ life, but are the windows ever unlocked with the special allen key needed before a journey if the aircon is busted? Hell no it isn’t, if they simply allowed the windows to be opened when the aircon is bung or working too hard to be effective, then they wouldn’t be such death traps.

I’ve been through the same thing in Sydney 10 years ago when they started locking all the train windows. Ever been on a train stuck between the harbour bridge and wynyard for 4 hours with no working aircon and windows that can’t be opened? Well I have, and I can tell you its hell to be in that situation, the only saving grace with ACTION buses is even with their most convoluted routes you can’t spend 4 hrs stuck on a bus (although 1hr+ is notrmal for routes that if more sensibly organised would be half or a thrid of the the time spent on the bus).

My best suggestion is carry an allen key with the right size to unlock the bus windows, then if you’re on a packed bus just go for it, like the driver is going to notice anyway with that many people jammed onboard during peak half-hour.

Ride your bike home on those days then whinge.

Dry your eyes princess

Geez people always find something to complain about just for the sake of having a whinge.

I think the lack of airconditioning is one of ACTION’s smallest problems, over crowding, ticketing problems and having 100 odd routes that go nowhere as slow as possible, rank far above someone whinging that they’re a bit hot on the bus. ACTION has one of the youngest average public bus fleets in the country, they aren’t going to replace buses because someone feels a bit hot.

I caught a bus on Tuesday for the first time in about a year – to pick the car up from being serviced haha. It was about 39 odd degrees, yes the bus was a bit hot, but all the windows were open so there was some air movement so it wasn’t a sauna. The points I noted was that both buses were indicated as wheelchair accessable on the timetable website and neither ended up being accessable and the second driver skipped a few streets on the return journey. I was lucky to get off where I did as it would have been a long walk to where I wanted to go if I didn’t

I’m happy I get my Ps in late February, then I can avoid the Eddies boys, and the Telopea kiddies.

Anyway, since the Redex has been brought in, more air-conditioned buses have started taking the 2-digit Gungahlin routes (51, 52, 56, 58, 59, etc), whereas, more old Renaults have been taking Intertowns.

I would still like to see the Redex extended to Narrabundah College, it would make far more patronage, and it would probably be cheaper (ACTION could stop the Narrabundah-City school buses)

Mathew8993 said :

Your idea of the air con not working on one particular route is rediculous.

I think that comment comes from someone that is either a) trolling or b) never taken an ACTION bus. Not “rediculous” or even ridiculous. Just the reality of the current ACTION service. They use the same buses for the same route at a scheduled time. As someone mentioned, bus drivers choose their favourite buses and keep using them.

Yes, its true that buses will never be more comfortable or convenient that a car, but that’s not even part of the arguement. The fact is that its dangerously hot in the ACTION buses – especially since I’ve noticed often windows are not opened to let airflow through. So everyone agrees that a child stuck in a car can cause heatstroke yet no one puts two and two together about people on buses in the same situation?

And as always, someone comes on saying the harden the f up, which is predictable (possible trolling). Its actually getting a bit boring when people say that. I think the harden up line should be included into Godwin’s Law.

You can tell people from Canberra are not used to this heat – anyone in Central Australia would straight away know about how easy it is to get heatstroke and not make any comments about hardening up when it gets this hot.

Sometimes it gets really hot, and it’s not much fun for anyone.

And as Mathew8993 says, riding in a bus will never be as comfortable or convenient as using your own vehicle.

It is not entirely ACTIONs responsibilty to fix the air conditioning. It is also supposed to be maintained and serviced regularly by the Air Conditioning manufacturer (Carrier & Thermo-King) Your idea of the air con not working on one particular route is rediculous.

Also newer A/C buses are better for the environment than older buses, despite what you say about the A/C producing heat and Co2 etc. The fuel/engine system processes are cleaner than ever and have to meet emissions standards, the new MAN buses are about two years ahead of the standard of emissions required.

Public transport will never be better than driving yourself, so it your a serial whinger then just drive/carpool and enjoy your air conditioning, and the fact your on time and in more control.

using older non airconditioned buses is better for the environment. It seems the whole problem with the environmnetal debate in the country is that people want change, but not at their own expence. Air conditioning is evil, heating the outside world, using tons of energy producing tons of C02 so you can feel a little more comfortable. Harden up.

I caught the bus to work this week and had lovely air conditioning, friendly bus drivers, punctual service and sometimes only five people on a peak-hour service…I’d recommend catching the bus.

You know, I have travelled to many so called third world countries that have had better buses and services that ACTION. Amusingly, when I tell them the type of public transport we have here, they are at first amazed, then they think Canberra must be a very poor region.

The aircon breaking down is NOT a time to time problem with ACTION. They don’t fix the air con on some routes at all and haven’t for weeks. I’ve had a broken air conditioning at work and at home many times. Never has it taken months, if they are even fixed at all in these buses.

Special G said :

Take one for the planet and enjoy the heat on the bus. or get changed into your beach gear before travelling home and close your eyes and think of the beach.

There’s a silver lining to just about everything

The ACTION fleet seems to be constantly renewed, with older buses retired and newer ones brought in. Some of the non-airconditioned buses are as young as 10 years though, so it’ll be a while longer before they’re all gone (they seem to keep them for about 20 years).

Let’s face it, the heat would be less of an issue if the travel times were more reasonable. Tough choice: 90 minutes by bus (including changes) in the heat, or 20 minutes by car with air conditioning, either electric (push a button) or manual (wind down the window).

You know what, for many a year (myself included) there have been rants on here about ACTION and service etc.

It is widely known that I have no option but to bus it to work, given my lack of vision… However, part of me is thinking that it’s a bit like the chicken and the egg with regards to service provision etc. Yes, if more people use the bus, then the Government may be in a position to increase services, but also if the Government put more services on, maybe more people would use them. Given the often polarising opinion on here regarding public transport, parking, roads etc., perhaps the whole ‘if you build it, they will come’ mantra is a bit lost on the people of Canberra and of course the Government.

Take one for the planet and enjoy the heat on the bus. or get changed into your beach gear before travelling home and close your eyes and think of the beach.

Much to your rant, ACTION is currently in the process of taking delivery of 100 new air conditioned buses. Around 65 are replacement buses for older (non air conditioned ones) and the rest will increase the fleet size for extra services such as the REDEX trial.

In the last 4 months or so there have been 15 new buses delivered, however you may not get these as about 10 of them are on REDEX services, however the rest of them will go onto normal services once they are delivered.

Currently the government is spending your money on the new smart card ticketing system ‘MyWay’ which will be commencing live trials this year and be fully implemented by next year, meaning and end to getting your ticket stuck in the machine, and a faster boarding process.

You can complain all you want about non air conditioned buses but your not the only one. Sydney is still running buses around built in 1983 on their government services, ACTIONs oldest bus was made in 1987 and they are reaching the end of their lives (for a public bus service) and most of the 1987/1988 model buses are being replaced with these new buses currently being delivered.

In regards to your air con problem, yes the AIR con takes a lot of power to run, and from time to time yes they do break down, not much can be done about it at the time as a mechanic will need to fix the system, it’s not just on buses, air conditioners break down in shopping centres and offices all the time, it’s a fact of life, and sadly yes it is VERY hot when they fail and all you can do is open the roof hatch or open two one or two windows sometimes fitted to the buses, annoyingly some new buses have no opening windows which i think is rediculous in case of A/C failure what air can the passengers get, i think in that situtation a replacement bus should be called!

I don’t think Action has ever turned a profit so you’re fares don’t even pay for the service you get at the moment let alone improvements in the future.

Unfortunately the Government seems to think they need to force people to use the bus service (eg with pay parking increases etc) THEN they’ll improve the system. Stupid. Haven’t they heard of “build it and they will come”?