Parental help at schools

Splendiferous 14 May 2012 62

Rioters,

What are your thoughts on paying full school fees for your children and then being shamed into taking time off work to help out with normal school activities (reading, maths, etc)?

Both my wife and I work full time to the point where both our children are in before and after school care (7.45am to 5.45pm). For this and the school fees we pay quite a lot.

We have been asked now to take time off work to go to the school to help out with daily activities. This should be for at least once per week around 1 hour at a time (I get paid hourly). As we are almost at the ranges of time for before and after school care we can’t work extra to make up for the time. Not to mention it makes a long day for our kids.

As a newish parent to schooling I wasn’t expecting this request. We help out on the weekends when possible. So is it normal for these requests?


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TheDancingDjinn TheDancingDjinn 12:57 pm 16 May 12

chewy14 said :

My parents once forgot to remind me to take my lunch to school.

It forced me to steal a doughnut from the canteen.

Now I’ve grown up to become a career criminal who’s forced to break into McDonalds’ just to get at those sugary, sugary burger buns.

Well at least you’re a well dressed thief, can’t stand a criminal who looks scrubby.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 12:49 pm 16 May 12

HenryBG said :

Jim Jones said :

TheDancingDjinn said :

Please point me in the direction of where he sends his kids to school, I don’t remember reading that they go to that school.

I’d assumed that, with the mention of expensive school fees, that it was a private school.

The Orana accusation is either (a) based on inside info, (b) Henry BG being a reactionary right-wing flog. (b) is probably more likely.

(c) Analysis:
The mention of the semi-public shaming of parents who don’t volunteer smells very much of the judgmental and bullying atmosphere that pervades Orana and doesn’t sound like anything the public or major denominational systems would be foolish enough to engage in at an official level.

So you don’t have any inside information, you’re just a flog.

HenryBG HenryBG 12:46 pm 16 May 12

TheDancingDjinn said :

Please point me in the direction of where he sends his kids to school, I don’t remember reading that they go to that school.

How dare you demand explanation from me – I have terminal Leukaemia and am forced to live in a cardboard box halfway up Red Hill.

HenryBG HenryBG 12:44 pm 16 May 12

Jim Jones said :

TheDancingDjinn said :

Please point me in the direction of where he sends his kids to school, I don’t remember reading that they go to that school.

I’d assumed that, with the mention of expensive school fees, that it was a private school.

The Orana accusation is either (a) based on inside info, (b) Henry BG being a reactionary right-wing flog. (b) is probably more likely.

(c) Analysis:
The mention of the semi-public shaming of parents who don’t volunteer smells very much of the judgmental and bullying atmosphere that pervades Orana and doesn’t sound like anything the public or major denominational systems would be foolish enough to engage in at an official level.

chewy14 chewy14 12:44 pm 16 May 12

My parents once forgot to remind me to take my lunch to school.

It forced me to steal a doughnut from the canteen.

Now I’ve grown up to become a career criminal who’s forced to break into McDonalds’ just to get at those sugary, sugary burger buns.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 12:33 pm 16 May 12

Mysteryman said :

I have an axe to grind

Mysteryman Mysteryman 11:44 am 16 May 12

Watson said :

Jim Jones said :

Watson said :

Special G said :

Letting your child go to school without lunch – stellar example of great parenting. Same would be acheived by letting them walk out the door then asking if they have anything. If your child is faffing about it is the parents job to direct them so that timings can be met.

Stellar example of ramming your own idea on how to raise kids down someone else’s throat. Back off and look after your own snot-nosed brood instead. I’m sure they feel blessed to have a parent running after them asking them patronising questions.

In the meantime my child will suffer the natural consequences of not taking responsibility for herself while I shrug off the criticism of the busy bodies.

Oh god – the whole ‘personal responsibility’ right-wingtard meme has gone so far that people are sending their kids off without lunch to ‘learn em a lesson’. Failing to feed children because they’re forgetful – awesome work! I’m sure that missing meals will have nothing but a positive impact, after all, we all now how proper nutrition derails the educational process.

How on earth is that right wing? Because I don’t believe in nagging and repeating myself umpteen times? Because I believe the fastest way to learn is by experiencing the consequences of your actions? Are you seriously telling me your parents never did this? Then maybe you are too young to know that kids weren’t always treated like they all have a mental disability…

They are also resilient and adaptable. Most can cope with being in care even for long days. It’s not what I would chose to do, but I do not think it is child abuse either. I don’t agree with lots of things other parents do but I trust that the vast majority of them will do what they think is best for their kids and unless there is abuse happening it is none of my business.

And referring to the link between diet and learning because of ONE missed lunch? Seriously?

And yes, I lost it a bit in my last post. I am fed up with every man and his dog telling parents how they should raise their kids. And I bet it has a similar effect on lots of parents as treating kids like helpless idiots has on them.

+1. I’ve read some stupid comments from Jim Jones before, but that one takes the cake.

vg vg 10:55 am 16 May 12

It’s voluntary. If you don’t want to do it just say no……is it really that hard to do. The school can’t make you feel ‘shamed’, it’s you who lets yourself feel that way. I have no dramas at all saying no to what my kids’ school asks when it doesn’t suit me.

That being said, I have been parent ‘helper’ at school when I have been able and my wife loves doing it once a week. She’d probably do more if she could. We both love the opportunity to see what our kids do at school every day and the kids love having us there in return. It’s actually fun and you can see what your fees are paying for, rather than have uninformed whinger, something people on this site would never have anyway.

Jesus, grow a pair. Either do it or don’t. Our school has asked us to participate in fund raising before and my answer was that I already raise their funds through paying fees. Its not hard to say.

Having the chance to see what those fees do, and spending more time with your kids in their formative years is absolutely priceless when you have the chance. If you don’t or can’t because of work then that’s life

dvaey dvaey 10:51 am 16 May 12

HenryBG said :

The “medical issues” is emotional blackmail. Or maybe complete BS. One or the other. I bet it’s a plush house and two car loans that really costs him big.

Cant forget the ever-important Foxtel.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 10:18 am 16 May 12

TheDancingDjinn said :

Please point me in the direction of where he sends his kids to school, I don’t remember reading that they go to that school.

I’d assumed that, with the mention of expensive school fees, that it was a private school.

The Orana accusation is either (a) based on inside info, (b) Henry BG being a reactionary right-wing flog. (b) is probably more likely.

TheDancingDjinn TheDancingDjinn 9:52 am 16 May 12

HenryBG said :

DrKoresh said :

Special G said :

Tell you what. I’ll deal with your kids in a few years time then when your constant neglect leads them off the rails and straight down my path. Then you can transition from whinging about the schools not raising your kids to the police and the justice system having a go at them.

Seen it plenty of times – kids from ‘good’ families who are simply left to their own devices – suddenly it’s a shock to the parents when the Police start knocking on their door at 2am.

Yes I’m opinionated – this is a forum and I’ll go ramming it down everyones throat who cares to read it.

Back on topic. Jims got it right. Medical bills and struggling to make ends meet = stress, which is not good for those who have medical issues. Spending 10 hours every day at work means you don’t see your family that often. Work less – live more – spend the extra time helping your kids and they (and you) will benefit greatly from it.

And seriously how often are you asked (as a newish parent to schooling) to help out on weekends. Must be a private school thing.

Yeah mate, just stop worrying about your illness, it’s all just in your head, caused by stress. Neglecting your treatment is the only mature to do here.

If money was an issue, he wouldn’t be sending his offspring to Orana (it *is*, Orana, isn’t it?).

The “medical issues” is emotional blackmail. Or maybe complete BS. One or the other. I bet it’s a plush house and two car loans that really costs him big.
This isn’t the USA, we have a health system that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg here. (Although the latest budget is removing Homeopathy and Crystal healing and other such crap from medical insurance, so I can understand Orana parents having a bit of a panic.)

Bottom line is he *should* be spending more time with his children – before & after schoolcare is a recipe for disaster.

Please point me in the direction of where he sends his kids to school, I don’t remember reading that they go to that school.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 9:17 am 16 May 12

Watson said :

And yes, I lost it a bit in my last post. I am fed up with every man and his dog telling parents how they should raise their kids. And I bet it has a similar effect on lots of parents as treating kids like helpless idiots has on them.

I appreciate that.

But if you don’t want your parenting tactics to be criticised, then don’t offer them up for comment on a public forum.

MWF MWF 10:14 pm 15 May 12

Watson said :

And you expect parents to teach a child how to read and write?

Actually, I do.

All it takes is to read to them.

Literacy begins in the home.

HenryBG HenryBG 7:38 pm 15 May 12

DrKoresh said :

Special G said :

Tell you what. I’ll deal with your kids in a few years time then when your constant neglect leads them off the rails and straight down my path. Then you can transition from whinging about the schools not raising your kids to the police and the justice system having a go at them.

Seen it plenty of times – kids from ‘good’ families who are simply left to their own devices – suddenly it’s a shock to the parents when the Police start knocking on their door at 2am.

Yes I’m opinionated – this is a forum and I’ll go ramming it down everyones throat who cares to read it.

Back on topic. Jims got it right. Medical bills and struggling to make ends meet = stress, which is not good for those who have medical issues. Spending 10 hours every day at work means you don’t see your family that often. Work less – live more – spend the extra time helping your kids and they (and you) will benefit greatly from it.

And seriously how often are you asked (as a newish parent to schooling) to help out on weekends. Must be a private school thing.

Yeah mate, just stop worrying about your illness, it’s all just in your head, caused by stress. Neglecting your treatment is the only mature to do here.

If money was an issue, he wouldn’t be sending his offspring to Orana (it *is*, Orana, isn’t it?).

The “medical issues” is emotional blackmail. Or maybe complete BS. One or the other. I bet it’s a plush house and two car loans that really costs him big.
This isn’t the USA, we have a health system that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg here. (Although the latest budget is removing Homeopathy and Crystal healing and other such crap from medical insurance, so I can understand Orana parents having a bit of a panic.)

Bottom line is he *should* be spending more time with his children – before & after schoolcare is a recipe for disaster.

Watson Watson 7:16 pm 15 May 12

Jim Jones said :

Watson said :

Special G said :

Letting your child go to school without lunch – stellar example of great parenting. Same would be acheived by letting them walk out the door then asking if they have anything. If your child is faffing about it is the parents job to direct them so that timings can be met.

Stellar example of ramming your own idea on how to raise kids down someone else’s throat. Back off and look after your own snot-nosed brood instead. I’m sure they feel blessed to have a parent running after them asking them patronising questions.

In the meantime my child will suffer the natural consequences of not taking responsibility for herself while I shrug off the criticism of the busy bodies.

Oh god – the whole ‘personal responsibility’ right-wingtard meme has gone so far that people are sending their kids off without lunch to ‘learn em a lesson’. Failing to feed children because they’re forgetful – awesome work! I’m sure that missing meals will have nothing but a positive impact, after all, we all now how proper nutrition derails the educational process.

How on earth is that right wing? Because I don’t believe in nagging and repeating myself umpteen times? Because I believe the fastest way to learn is by experiencing the consequences of your actions? Are you seriously telling me your parents never did this? Then maybe you are too young to know that kids weren’t always treated like they all have a mental disability…

They are also resilient and adaptable. Most can cope with being in care even for long days. It’s not what I would chose to do, but I do not think it is child abuse either. I don’t agree with lots of things other parents do but I trust that the vast majority of them will do what they think is best for their kids and unless there is abuse happening it is none of my business.

And referring to the link between diet and learning because of ONE missed lunch? Seriously?

And yes, I lost it a bit in my last post. I am fed up with every man and his dog telling parents how they should raise their kids. And I bet it has a similar effect on lots of parents as treating kids like helpless idiots has on them.

DrKoresh DrKoresh 4:58 pm 15 May 12

Special G said :

Tell you what. I’ll deal with your kids in a few years time then when your constant neglect leads them off the rails and straight down my path. Then you can transition from whinging about the schools not raising your kids to the police and the justice system having a go at them.

Seen it plenty of times – kids from ‘good’ families who are simply left to their own devices – suddenly it’s a shock to the parents when the Police start knocking on their door at 2am.

Yes I’m opinionated – this is a forum and I’ll go ramming it down everyones throat who cares to read it.

Back on topic. Jims got it right. Medical bills and struggling to make ends meet = stress, which is not good for those who have medical issues. Spending 10 hours every day at work means you don’t see your family that often. Work less – live more – spend the extra time helping your kids and they (and you) will benefit greatly from it.

And seriously how often are you asked (as a newish parent to schooling) to help out on weekends. Must be a private school thing.

Yeah mate, just stop worrying about your illness, it’s all just in your head, caused by stress. Neglecting your treatment is the only mature to do here.

Special G Special G 4:37 pm 15 May 12

Tell you what. I’ll deal with your kids in a few years time then when your constant neglect leads them off the rails and straight down my path. Then you can transition from whinging about the schools not raising your kids to the police and the justice system having a go at them.

Seen it plenty of times – kids from ‘good’ families who are simply left to their own devices – suddenly it’s a shock to the parents when the Police start knocking on their door at 2am.

Yes I’m opinionated – this is a forum and I’ll go ramming it down everyones throat who cares to read it.

Back on topic. Jims got it right. Medical bills and struggling to make ends meet = stress, which is not good for those who have medical issues. Spending 10 hours every day at work means you don’t see your family that often. Work less – live more – spend the extra time helping your kids and they (and you) will benefit greatly from it.

And seriously how often are you asked (as a newish parent to schooling) to help out on weekends. Must be a private school thing.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 4:13 pm 15 May 12

Watson said :

Special G said :

Letting your child go to school without lunch – stellar example of great parenting. Same would be acheived by letting them walk out the door then asking if they have anything. If your child is faffing about it is the parents job to direct them so that timings can be met.

Stellar example of ramming your own idea on how to raise kids down someone else’s throat. Back off and look after your own snot-nosed brood instead. I’m sure they feel blessed to have a parent running after them asking them patronising questions.

In the meantime my child will suffer the natural consequences of not taking responsibility for herself while I shrug off the criticism of the busy bodies.

Oh god – the whole ‘personal responsibility’ right-wingtard meme has gone so far that people are sending their kids off without lunch to ‘learn em a lesson’. Failing to feed children because they’re forgetful – awesome work! I’m sure that missing meals will have nothing but a positive impact, after all, we all now how proper nutrition derails the educational process.

Props for the massive irony in raving about how much better your way of doing things is than all those ‘namby pamby’ parents who make sure their kids are fed, and then cracking the sh1ts (“ramming your own idea on how to raise kids down someone else’s throat. Back off and look after your own snot-nosed brood instead”) when someone calls you out on it.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 4:07 pm 15 May 12

TheDancingDjinn said :

Splendiferous said :

I’ve taking great delight in the fact that you think I’m not taking an active role in my childs life just because I don’t leave work during the work hours to help out at the school.

We both have to work because I have to pay outrageous medical costs for an ongoing condition. Our health care doesn’t cover the costs and nor does the government (for the majority). Without this treatment I wouldn’t be around to see my kids. You knew nothing of my personal situation yet felt obliged to tell me I’m a bad parent.

Next time you feel like mounting your high horses how about you take a view outside of your perfect world and realise people work for reasons other than to get rich.

I really hope you all have the warm and fuzzies – Because i know i sure as fuck do.. sometimes this site makes me so ashamed to be human and in this country.

Meh. The dude posted a very leading post (face it, it was more of a complaint than a serious request for information) – didn’t supply all the relevant information, and then complains when people offer their opinions, which, on a site such as this, are always going to be extremely varied (and inflammatory).

I’m sorry that he’s sick and having problems making it work, and obviously none of us have the full story. But that doesn’t create some of alternative universe in which people can’t offer their opinions. It is a forum after all.

If it were me, I’d be seriously questing paying for before and after school care, school fees and having very limited time to spend with my children and also working long hours to pay for all this. IMHO it would be better – if possible – to take the kids out of private school and all the before and after school care, and spend more time with them rather than working to pay for it all.

Regardless, asking for opinions and then cracking the shits when you don’t agree with them is a pretty common occurrence round here (my fave was the freak who went nuts because the school gave her kid a syringe).

Watson Watson 4:06 pm 15 May 12

Jim Jones said :

I think you misinterpret what I’m getting at. I’m by no means saying that the ‘youth of today’ are worse than in the past (if anything, the youth of today are – on the whole – better educated and doling a hell of a lot better than previous generations. Plenty of figures to demonstrate that. Basic literacy and numeracy are way up compared to the ‘good old days’.

There’s a (relatively recent) attitudinal change in parents in which school is becoming seen (by many – by no means all) as being a service that provides everything that children need. Rather than school being a place where kids go to during the day to learn and play, more and more people assume that school will take care of raising their children: including toilet training, learning to read, write and count, basic discipline (yes, school do need to provide discipline, but it isn’t the role of school to be the *only* form of discipline in a child’s life, and in no way should school ever provide the foundation of a child’s disciplinary learning), and so on.

It’s not a question of ‘teachers are all crap and in my day they were tougher and things were better’. That’s quite clearly bullshit. There have been any number of changes in society since ‘the good old days’ – some of them for the better, some of them for the worse. The one negative change that’s easily identifiable is people assuming that school is service provided to them that will rear their children – all they have to do is pay the bills and find something to do with the kids during the holidays.

Finally, the vast majority of primary school teachers are not in their 20s. It’s a rapidly aging profession – mainly due to the low socio-economic and cultural status of teachers (and respect accorded them by parents and wider society). Why in all hell would you go into teaching given how poorly teachers are regarded and renumerated? This leads to a vicious circle – anyone with intelligence and ambition avoids education, the education system gets a lower standard of teachers, respect for teachers declines, etc. ad nauseum.

No teachers are not worse than they were. But schools are. I blame the whole fear of public liability insanity and the media first and foremost. Teachers’ hands are often tied and it is not doing them nor the kids in their care any favours.

And I have yet to hear an example of teachers having to toilet train a child. You may know a few teachers, but I know lots of parents who would have known if there was such a child in their kids’ class.

And you expect parents to teach a child how to read and write?

And parents spending less time with their kids because of work commitments is a myth. Studies have shown that parents spend more time actively interacting with their kids than ever before. Maybe that’s the problem…

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