29 August 2012

Pedestrian access in Civic West hits a new pathetic low

| johnboy
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worst footpath in the world?

For months the footpaths on the western side of Civic have been nothing short of a disgrace. Paths abruptly ending dumping pedestrians across major roads, paths dug up and left caged off for weeks without sign of activity, weird dog legged diversions for walkers dancing in traffic.

But this morning on Alinga Street outside the post office things reached an new noteworthy low (pictured).

One would hope a smallish city state would be capable of better coordination.

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My Partner works at the sight on Marcus Clarke street and Barry Drive, this is being done for the centenary of Canberra next year, they have signs where pedestrians are meant to walk but they don’t they walk through the gates and right through the middle of the job site , when he and his work mates were pouring cement a few weeks back they had signs up but had several people not looking where they were going and ending up knee deep in it, so once these people got out they had to go re fix it, these guys are there from 6:30 – 7 am in the morning til 5 pm and sometimes working on saturdays , i was told today that there was 1 gate open for bobcats etc to get through but people insist on going through that way. they have their heads down, texting or other things not taking notice of where they are walking when there is heavy machinery about

wildturkeycanoe said :

I think more of these safety fences should be erected

ERECTION NOW

wildturkeycanoe said :

I think more of these safety fences should be erected – to protect us from disgruntled gasbags with nothing else going on in their lives except daily trips to the complaints office.

Do you mean the type of disgruntled gasbags who put up whining complaints like this one? – http://the-riotact.com/lady-denman-lycra/31298

colourful sydney racing identity7:51 am 30 Aug 12

Jim Jones said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bundah said :

Why do i get the feeling that JJ and CSR are actually the same person?

Nah, he is much cooler than me.

You got that right toots.

toots? I withdraw my previous comment

wildturkeycanoe6:00 am 30 Aug 12

Boo hoo people!! What about the roadworks everywhere in Canberra. How dare they cordon off sections or entire lanes to repair potholes, install traffic lights, map out new cycle paths?? What about the poor 4×4 drivers who have to navigate between the tiny sections of road marked with witches hats and guard rails?? Think of the larger heavy vehicles and their plight, having to make detours because of weight restrictions.
Seriously though, these fences are erected not to inconvenience the public, but because of occupational health and safety rules, deigned to protect both the workers and yourself. If the disabled bodies you are trying to stand up for in this particular scenario were to get cement dust all over their wheelchair, in their eyes and nose or a piece of scaffold landed on a child in the “safety” of its pram, would you then argue why the barriers were not in place? Try working on a construction site for a day and then tell me about how hard it is walk from point A to point B.
I think more of these safety fences should be erected – to protect us from disgruntled gasbags with nothing else going on in their lives except daily trips to the complaints office.

bundah said :

c_c said :

Calm down JB, your flaming your own website. They’ve been repaving that whole side of Civic, and it’s made a real improvement. Yes, a short term annoyance but how else are they to do it, you can build under people’s feet?

These changes have nothing to do with the others, it’s Australia Post blowing cash on a reno. Inconvenient, hell yes. But you can easily cross to the other side of the road.

Well you may be content with mediocrity but some of us strive for and often achieve excellence unlike the excessively lengthy time that it takes to complete roadworks and repairs to pedestrian access areas. Mind you this has been the norm in Canberra for decades much to my chagrin.No hurry boys steady as she goes!

Indeed. They repaired some of the shared paths out my way a while back. The process took over a month.

Step 1: Rope off hundreds of metres of track over a distance of kilometres. Ensure that when you rope of the track you place the ropes in such a way that you block the most sensible detour routes as well, forcing cyclists to do things like lift their bikes over people’s hedge fences and trudge through their front yard. Also ensure that the sections of path you have designated for replacement are in no worse condition (and very often are actually in better condition) than other sections of the same path.

Step 2: Leave sections roped off for 2 weeks but do not actual work

Step 3: Dig up roped off track

Step 4: Leave for 2 weeks

Step 5: Re-lay path, but do not clean up. Instead, leave giant mounds of dirt over path. Ensure that the quality of the new path is no different to the quality of the path it replaced.

Your job is now complete.

Just to pile on (and hopefully move on from the sniping above), the Moore St-Rudd St corner is really dangerous. The contractors’ container blocks the lines of sight, and they’re taking an unbelievable amount of time to do the job – it’s been dragging on for at least two months now.

Jim Jones said :

johnboy said :

Yes, I was referring to starting and finishing disruptions to footpaths.

This is something you’ve taken a particular interest in during your global travels?

I’d imagine it would make a fascinating book.

I’m thinking about writing a book about s*** houses I have visited outside of Canberra. Will you buy that also?

johnboy said :

Start work, finish work, remove barriers, move on.

No one’s complaining about works. But they can be staged, staggered, and completed better.

And I say that as someone who’s been to a lot of cities all over the world and every single one of them is better than this.

Therein is much of the problem. I catch a bus from Belco through Civic a couple of afternoons each week. It seems there is one loooooong construction zone that starts on Barry Drive next to the CSIRO … all the way past the ANU, then continues along Marcus Clarke St, then continues up Alinga Street through the City Bus Interchange. It then stops for a short time on London Cct past the Legislative Assembly before we get a final burst of construction at the London Cct ramp up to Commonwealth Avenue. It is (literally) a 3km+ construction zone.

Poorly planned is the understatement of the year.

schmeah said :

c_c said :

schmeah said :

The worst bit is probably the 4 way intersection at Moore St and Rudd St, where a shipping container has blocked the view for crossing pedestrians for some time.

There’s no shipping container at that intersection. Never has been. There’s a couple up the road, but none that obstruct the view at the actual pedestrian crossings.

This comment actually proves you have no fn idea what you are talking about.

There has been a brown shipping container on this corner for some time now. If you are a pedestrian walking towards the Jolimont Centre from the direction of Marcus Clarke on the Sugar-Cube side of the street you will see a shipping container that, for pedestrians looking to cross the intersection, substantially blocks your traffic view until you walk out into the line of traffic.

Wasn’t an issue yesterday, but then I didn’t have my cheek right up against the container to block the view.

colourful sydney racing identity4:46 pm 29 Aug 12

Jim Jones said :

johnboy said :

Yes, I was referring to starting and finishing disruptions to footpaths.

This is something you’ve taken a particular interest in during your global travels?

I’d imagine it would make a fascinating book.

lulz

c_c said :

schmeah said :

The worst bit is probably the 4 way intersection at Moore St and Rudd St, where a shipping container has blocked the view for crossing pedestrians for some time.

There’s no shipping container at that intersection. Never has been. There’s a couple up the road, but none that obstruct the view at the actual pedestrian crossings.

This comment actually proves you have no fn idea what you are talking about.

There has been a brown shipping container on this corner for some time now. If you are a pedestrian walking towards the Jolimont Centre from the direction of Marcus Clarke on the Sugar-Cube side of the street you will see a shipping container that, for pedestrians looking to cross the intersection, substantially blocks your traffic view until you walk out into the line of traffic.

johnboy said :

Yes, I was referring to starting and finishing disruptions to footpaths.

This is something you’ve taken a particular interest in during your global travels?

I’d imagine it would make a fascinating book.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

bundah said :

Why do i get the feeling that JJ and CSR are actually the same person?

Nah, he is much cooler than me.

You got that right toots.

colourful sydney racing identity4:04 pm 29 Aug 12

bundah said :

Why do i get the feeling that JJ and CSR are actually the same person?

Nah, he is much cooler than me.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

johnboy said :

Start work, finish work, remove barriers, move on.

No one’s complaining about works. But they can be staged, staggered, and completed better.

And I say that as someone who’s been to a lot of cities all over the world and every single one of them is better than this.

every single city you have been to, in the world, is better than Canberra?

And yet he keeps coming back.

Doesn’t make much sense, does it?

johnboy said :

…And I say that as someone who’s been to a lot of cities all over the world and every single one of them is better than this.

I assume you mean better at remediation works this ‘this’?
If not, is there something keeping you here in particular? I mean, I think you are providing a great service, but if you didn’t like it here (cf. other places) I think it’s sad for you to waste your time here?!? Curious….

Jim Jones said :

johnboy said :

And I say that as someone who’s been to a lot of cities all over the world and every single one of them is better than this.

Really. What cities have you been to?

colourful sydney racing identity said :

johnboy said :

Start work, finish work, remove barriers, move on.

No one’s complaining about works. But they can be staged, staggered, and completed better.

And I say that as someone who’s been to a lot of cities all over the world and every single one of them is better than this.

every single city you have been to, in the world, is better than Canberra?

Why do i get the feeling that JJ and CSR are actually the same person?

johnboy said :

Start work, finish work, remove barriers, move on.

No one’s complaining about works. But they can be staged, staggered, and completed better.

They did one side of Canberra House, everyone walked down the other side.
They did one side of West Row, everyone one walked down the other.
Then they all swapped.

The fencing you’ve photographed here, gone by noon today, the boards having been installed and people walking freely again.

Believe me folks when the government get’s public works wrong (i.e. GDE) I’ll call it out.

And I’ll certainly call out ACT Roads and ANU over the debacle that is Childers St and the transit way because while it’s never caused me problems, I’ve seen daily the problems its causing other road users.I’m just not seeing it here, particularly since if they do it right now, it should stay right for at least a couple of decades.

Yes, I was referring to starting and finishing disruptions to footpaths.

c_c said :

johnboy said :

Yes that’s right c_c, if only I had your big tough real world experience.

Well then what is your solution? The pavement (and the groundwork underneath) was aged, unsafe in many areas and in need of remediation.

They’ve remediated the ground underneath, put down new paving, in places added landscaping, and applied non-slip treatments. All with multiple interruptions due to weather that have shut down construction sites Canberra wide and delayed projects.

People on here whinge about the state of Civic, then whinge about the works to improve it, then whinge about it when its finished.

If the work was completed within a reasonable period of time instead of fart-arsing around,which has become the norm in this city,then one wouldn’t have any reason to whinge.

colourful sydney racing identity3:26 pm 29 Aug 12

johnboy said :

Start work, finish work, remove barriers, move on.

No one’s complaining about works. But they can be staged, staggered, and completed better.

And I say that as someone who’s been to a lot of cities all over the world and every single one of them is better than this.

every single city you have been to, in the world, is better than Canberra?

johnboy said :

And I say that as someone who’s been to a lot of cities all over the world and every single one of them is better than this.

Really. What cities have you been to?

johnboy said :

Yes that’s right c_c, if only I had your big tough real world experience.

Well then what is your solution? The pavement (and the groundwork underneath) was aged, unsafe in many areas and in need of remediation.

They’ve remediated the ground underneath, put down new paving, in places added landscaping, and applied non-slip treatments. All with multiple interruptions due to weather that have shut down construction sites Canberra wide and delayed projects.

People on here whinge about the state of Civic, then whinge about the works to improve it, then whinge about it when its finished.

Start work, finish work, remove barriers, move on.

No one’s complaining about works. But they can be staged, staggered, and completed better.

And I say that as someone who’s been to a lot of cities all over the world and every single one of them is better than this.

AG Canberra said :

What about the paving work happening outside the Uni Pub at the monent. Makes dodging the spew along there each morning that bit harder….

Of course the difference there is that one can negotiate that section of footpath without being too inconvenienced.As for the ‘vomit’ it’s in plague proportions!

johnboy said :

I’m sure I can speak for c_c: There is never any vomit in Civic!

haha, I swear some people on here would curl up in the foetal position and cry if they had to walk down a busy, crowded street in a big city.

Yes that’s right c_c, if only I had your big tough real world experience.

AG Canberra said :

What about the paving work happening outside the Uni Pub at the monent. Makes dodging the spew along there each morning that bit harder….

I just walk through Darwin Place instead. It’s a diversion of less than 10m and hopefully once the pavement is fixed, the uneven pavement that I’ve observed so many people trip on will no longer present a hazard.

What about the paving work happening outside the Uni Pub at the monent. Makes dodging the spew along there each morning that bit harder….

I’m sure I can speak for c_c: There is never any vomit in Civic!

schmeah said :

The worst bit is probably the 4 way intersection at Moore St and Rudd St, where a shipping container has blocked the view for crossing pedestrians for some time.

There’s no shipping container at that intersection. Never has been. There’s a couple up the road, but none that obstruct the view at the actual pedestrian crossings.

c_c said :

bundah said :

Well you may be content with mediocrity but some of us strive for and often achieve excellence unlike the excessively lengthy time that it takes to complete roadworks and repairs to pedestrian access areas. Mind you this has been the norm in Canberra for decades much to my chagrin.No hurry boys steady as she goes!

So you walk past and through these works everyday do you?

How would you do it better? Come on, upload a diagram genius and let’s see.

Some people need to harden up. (Though given how many people will barrel through a group waling in the opposite direction on the footpath, rather than just move a few inches to the side, why am I not surprised by the whining).

Some of us have the capacity to consider others who are disadvantaged and empathise with their predicament and the inconvenience this tardy work has on their mobility.You obviously are much to egocentric and therefore couldn’t give a stuff.

So to all the folks on here claiming to be advocates for disabled and mobility impaired people, did you stop to think that the old pavement presented hazards that would easily cause such people to end up arse over turkey?

And none of you have explained just how pavement is meant to be replaced without causing short term inconvenience.

You know I was looking at where this photo was taken today at lunch time and guess what, all the fencing is gone. It was only their while the boarding was been put up. The area is now clear and pedestrians are moving through with ease.

But then again, even with all the fencing up all over the place, people were moving up and down the streets with ease so it was never really an issue.

People complain the government doesn’t listen to what they say about public works. Well with such princesses making so much out of nothing, I really can’t blame them.

There is no impediment! The footpaths are great! You deserve no better!

c_c said :

johnboy said :

Have you also explored the horrors up Marcus Clarke, Moore Street, Rudd Street, and along Barry Drive.

If it was just a one off, or for a week, I’d have just worn it. But this has gone on and on and in many places is downright dangerous.

The horrors, my gosh. Yes, I have. Had to immediately call Lifeline and even then I’m scarred.

Very simple solution… walk around it!

Two sides to every street, two alternatives to every route I’ve observed.

Wow, some serious attitude here.

I have a colleague who is vision and mobility impaired. Usually they take themselves to lunch and to the bus stop, but can no longer do this. This person needs to arrange others to either go with them at lunch and often stays back late so they can arrange a lift with family .. while they managed when the construction was relatively consistent and contained, their routine around the city has been put on hold because, as John has said, the construction has steadily mounted and encroached on safe pedestrian access for some time. Sure we can have a whinge about how annoying it is to naviage fences and traffic, but for the disabled or people pushing prams I imagine it is really very frustrating.

I don’t believe this has anything to do with the footpath regeneration, but is more to do with the long overdue upgrade of the GPO – and I would imagine that most of this temporary fencing will be removed in a fairly short time frame.

Not really sure why the electricity box, etc had to be fenced off – but there you go….

Stinger, the majority of PO boxes are still on Rudd St, just moved along a few bays, while a small number are now on Alinga St: there was a letter placed in all GPO Boxes last week pointing out that some boxes were being moved. All the GPO Boxes will be relocated inside some time soon – so no more stepping over sleeping homeless people, or having to endure the smell of p1ss while collecting your mail!

The street work is moving to Post Office now .. ! This seems to have been going on for quite a while, and with the endless construction site at the ANU (and now the child care centre) .. it can sometimes be pretty exhausting.

The worst bit is probably the 4 way intersection at Moore St and Rudd St, where a shipping container has blocked the view for crossing pedestrians for some time.

c_c said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

c_c, do you have anything to do with these works? Seems strange to defend something like that.

I have nothing to do with the works, except for walking through them almost daily for their duration.

Never had an issue.

The improvements made are nice, replacing some aged and sometimes dangerous pavement. The extensive remodelling around Canberra House on the corner of Marcus Clarke St was a big improvement.

Plenty of ways to walk a couple of metres one way or the other and avoid the works easily.

When you’re repaving pedestrian thoroughfares, it’s going to be inconvenient. And when the weather isn’t great, it’s going to delay things. You can’t damn well lay pavers under people’s feet, and you can only work so fast.

You know The Simpsons (back in the days when they did humorous social commentary) mocked what a lot of you are now doing. Remember the episode with the bear tax. One bear sighting and the whole town went nuts, thinking it was a crisis. They wanted the ‘crisis’ fixed, so the mayor introduced a bear patrol but raised taxes to fund it. Then the public complained about the tax.

Same thing here.

Stunning logic from c_c: “I’ve never had an issue, so therefore anyone who complains needs to harden up.” Brilliant! Wouldn’t life be so much easier if everyone thought this way.

For c_c’s next trick, he/she will demonstrate how if you don’t actually think about people with reduced mobility at all, you can make them disappear…

It’s a pity it’s too late to register a new party for the upcoming election. You could have gone with the “I don’t give a rats arse about anyone else so long as I’m not inconvenienced” party. Self-centered w^nkers of Canberra, unite!

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

Bad luck if your in a wheelchair.

Or blind with a stick. That would be almost impossible to navigate, I would think.

johnboy said :

Have you also explored the horrors up Marcus Clarke, Moore Street, Rudd Street, and along Barry Drive.

If it was just a one off, or for a week, I’d have just worn it. But this has gone on and on and in many places is downright dangerous.

The horrors, my gosh. Yes, I have. Had to immediately call Lifeline and even then I’m scarred.

Very simple solution… walk around it!

Two sides to every street, two alternatives to every route I’ve observed.

Sure, if you can jump down a gutter and sprint across four lanes of traffic. No problem at all.

Rawhide Kid Part311:41 am 29 Aug 12

Bad luck if your in a wheelchair.

Antagonist said :

Jim Jones said :

OMG once I totally had to walk around a bit of fence … sooooo lame.

Worst day evah. This city just, like, totally sucks.

Take another look at the picture. Describe for me, in 50 moves or less, how you would negotiate that section of footpath from in a wheelchair without being forced onto the road? Or while pushing a pram?

I wouldn’t have been so myopic, would have seen an obstacle existed a few metres ahead and chosen to use the other side of the street, crossing at the pedestrian light at the Northbourne end or the safety island at the West Row end of Alinga St, proceeding on the Melbourne building side of the street.

This is just laziness.

Have you also explored the horrors up Marcus Clarke, Moore Street, Rudd Street, and along Barry Drive.

If it was just a one off, or for a week, I’d have just worn it. But this has gone on and on and in many places is downright dangerous.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

c_c, do you have anything to do with these works? Seems strange to defend something like that.

I have nothing to do with the works, except for walking through them almost daily for their duration.

Never had an issue.

The improvements made are nice, replacing some aged and sometimes dangerous pavement. The extensive remodelling around Canberra House on the corner of Marcus Clarke St was a big improvement.

Plenty of ways to walk a couple of metres one way or the other and avoid the works easily.

When you’re repaving pedestrian thoroughfares, it’s going to be inconvenient. And when the weather isn’t great, it’s going to delay things. You can’t damn well lay pavers under people’s feet, and you can only work so fast.

You know The Simpsons (back in the days when they did humorous social commentary) mocked what a lot of you are now doing. Remember the episode with the bear tax. One bear sighting and the whole town went nuts, thinking it was a crisis. They wanted the ‘crisis’ fixed, so the mayor introduced a bear patrol but raised taxes to fund it. Then the public complained about the tax.

Same thing here.

Jim Jones said :

OMG once I totally had to walk around a bit of fence … sooooo lame.

Worst day evah. This city just, like, totally sucks.

Take another look at the picture. Describe for me, in 50 moves or less, how you would negotiate that section of footpath from in a wheelchair without being forced onto the road? Or while pushing a pram?

Every time I see something like this, I ask myself, how would this be to navigate for someone in a wheelchair? Put yourself in someone else’s shoes (or in this case wheels) and imagine it from their perspective for a second, and then you might realise why this is more than just an issue of being annoyed at having to walk around something.

Jim Jones said :

OMG once I totally had to walk around a bit of fence … sooooo lame.

Worst day evah. This city just, like, totally sucks.

Perhaps try and consider that this is a busy stretch of pavement, and that not all pedestrians have the same mobility that you do.

OMG once I totally had to walk around a bit of fence … sooooo lame.

Worst day evah. This city just, like, totally sucks.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd10:50 am 29 Aug 12

c_c said :

bundah said :

Well you may be content with mediocrity but some of us strive for and often achieve excellence unlike the excessively lengthy time that it takes to complete roadworks and repairs to pedestrian access areas. Mind you this has been the norm in Canberra for decades much to my chagrin.No hurry boys steady as she goes!

So you walk past and through these works everyday do you?

How would you do it better? Come on, upload a diagram genius and let’s see.

Some people need to harden up. (Though given how many people will barrel through a group waling in the opposite direction on the footpath, rather than just move a few inches to the side, why am I not surprised by the whining).

c_c, do you have anything to do with these works? Seems strange to defend something like that.

bundah said :

Well you may be content with mediocrity but some of us strive for and often achieve excellence unlike the excessively lengthy time that it takes to complete roadworks and repairs to pedestrian access areas. Mind you this has been the norm in Canberra for decades much to my chagrin.No hurry boys steady as she goes!

So you walk past and through these works everyday do you?

How would you do it better? Come on, upload a diagram genius and let’s see.

Some people need to harden up. (Though given how many people will barrel through a group waling in the opposite direction on the footpath, rather than just move a few inches to the side, why am I not surprised by the whining).

Why have competent project management and staggered works when you can just tell everyone to harden up?

c_c said :

Calm down JB, your flaming your own website. They’ve been repaving that whole side of Civic, and it’s made a real improvement. Yes, a short term annoyance but how else are they to do it, you can build under people’s feet?

These changes have nothing to do with the others, it’s Australia Post blowing cash on a reno. Inconvenient, hell yes. But you can easily cross to the other side of the road.

Well you may be content with mediocrity but some of us strive for and often achieve excellence unlike the excessively lengthy time that it takes to complete roadworks and repairs to pedestrian access areas. Mind you this has been the norm in Canberra for decades much to my chagrin.No hurry boys steady as she goes!

I’m surprised no one has been injured crossing Rudd St at the corner of Marcus Clarke St. Wire fencing everywhere, no sight lines to on coming traffic, if you are riding you need to weave in and up and around in order to go up the curb.

Calm down JB, your flaming your own website. They’ve been repaving that whole side of Civic, and it’s made a real improvement. Yes, a short term annoyance but how else are they to do it, you can build under people’s feet?

These changes have nothing to do with the others, it’s Australia Post blowing cash on a reno. Inconvenient, hell yes. But you can easily cross to the other side of the road.

Maybe if pedestrians paid for rego, they’d be more entitled to complain about facilities…

In all serious though, I agree fully. Temporary diversions for works are rarely well thought through for people commuting on foot in Canberra.

An exception to this the work site on Mort Street in Braddon at the moment, where road centre lines have been shifted, bus stops moved, parking spots moved, all to make way for pedestrians to walk on the road (protected by concrete barriers) whilst the foot path is closed for adjacent building construction. A great example of well planned and implemented temporary traffic management.

Then around the corner at the intersection of Elouera and Lonsdale Streets, the foot path is also closed for construction. The only provision for pedestrians at this site are signs telling them to cross the road. Yet no temporary pedestrian crossing facilities have been provided for them to do so. Pedestrians must then cross the road near roundabouts which Canberran motorists come flying through at stupid speeds, blissfully ignorant of any road user around them who may not be in a motor vehicle. I have seen many a close call.

Anyone using a road who is not in a motor vehicle is among the most vulnerable road users. They should be the first considered and catered for when implementing temporary traffic management and diversions, not the last.

If find it interesting that those two boxes have been fenced off. It this to protect them? Because they are in an area that pedestrians are permitted still. Is there some danger, unseen, sufficient to warrant the protection of the green and grey box, but which pedestrians don’t need to worry about?

So, where have the post boxes gone? I went to clear mine out the other day and it had been removed…

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