21 January 2009

Police Wrap - 21 January

| johnboy
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These first two are old news now but I think we all wanted to see what the police had to say:

1. Operation Caprae brings peace to strife torn Tuggeranong:

    ACT Policing has arrested three male youths as part of Operation Caprae, currently targeting a string of aggravated robberies in the Tuggeranong area.

    Around 10pm on Friday (January 16) a 16-year-old male youth was walking with friends along Downard Street, Calwell, when a vehicle containing four males stopped and three of the males got out. The friends ran from the area while the 16-year-old male victim was grabbed. The alleged offenders demanded the victim’s wallet and phone. When he did not give them up they punched him in the face repeatedly. The assault stopped when a witness yelled at the offenders and they fled in the vehicle without taking any property. A member of the public provided police with an accurate registration plate for the suspect’s vehicle. The victim sustained bruising and swelling to the face. ACT Ambulance Services attended the scene but the victim was not conveyed to hospital.

    Numerous police officers were on the scene within minutes and thoroughly searched the area for the surrounding vehicle. A short time later, members of Operation Caprae stopped the white Proton sedan in Sturdee Crescent, Monash, and the 17-year-old driver from Monash was arrested.

    Following extensive investigations, around 3am yesterday (Saturday, January 17) officers from Operation Caprae attended the homes of the three alleged co-offenders and arrested two of them, a 16-year-old from Wanniassa and a 16-year-old from Theodore. Further charges are pending for the fourth alleged offender aged 15 from Calwell.

    All three alleged offenders were conveyed to the Regional Watch House and charged with attempted aggravated robbery. The driver was also charged with possession of a prohibited substance and the 16-year-old from Theodore was also charged with assault occasioning actual bodily harm. They will appear before the ACT Children’s Court this week.

    Superintendent Matt Varley says the arrests represent a coordinated effort across ACT Policing.

    “The response to this incident and the subsequent arrest of these offenders was made possible due to assistance from the public and a collaborative effort between General Duties patrols, the Territory Investigations Group (TIG) and Operation Caprae officers,” Supt Varley said.

    “These arrests clearly demonstrate that we mean business and that time is running out for other thugs who think they can continue committing assaults and robberies across Tuggeranong.”

    Operation Caprae will continue to target offenders in the Tuggeranong area.

2. The palm tree torchers feel the long arm of the law:

    ACT Policing has arrested two females and two males following an arson attack on a palm tree in Richardson last night (Saturday, January 17).

    Around midnight the alleged offenders were seen setting fire to a tree in Twamley Crescent before fleeing the scene. ACT Fire Brigade quickly attended and extinguished the fire. Officers from ACT Policing’s Territory Investigations Group (TIG) then intercepted the alleged offender’s vehicle on Kellett Street, Fadden.

    The arrests follow a string of attacks in the Deakin, Red Hill, McKellar, Yarralumla and Queanbeyan areas. The most recent occurred around midnight the previous night (Friday, January 16) when police were called to Dumas Street, McKellar, where several palm trees were on fire. ACT Fire Brigade again attended and extinguished the fire.

    Acting Superintendent David Harrison says the arrests are a result of careful coordination across ACT Policing.

    “These arrests were made possible through information obtained from ACT Policing’s Intelligence teams,” A/Supt Harrison said.

    “Detectives were able to quickly locate the alleged offenders after they had lit the fire.”

    All four of the alleged offenders have been charged with causing a bush fire. One of the males aged 13 from Deakin was bailed from the Regional Watch House to appear before the ACT Children’s Court at a later date. The other male aged 15 from Rivett and one of the females aged 17 also from Rivett will appear before the ACT Children’s Court tomorrow (Monday, January 19). The other female aged 18 from Duffy will appear before the ACT Magistrate’s Court tomorrow (Monday, January 19).

    In the ACT the charge of causing a bush fire carries a maximum sentence of 15 years imprisonment.

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And further down the page you find PB you will find……

“Despite the quick-fix attraction of boot camps, parents should search deeper to find programs that offer a more constructive and respectful approach, modelling the type of behaviour they are hoping to see in their children. One option is wilderness therapy, where youth find similar challenges as those depicted in boot camps but presented in a positive, meaningful, and respectful manner. “

Positive, meaningful, respectful. We all could do with a bit of that. There has been some good models developed here in Australia. Not a holiday. It is an experience of a good life.

Good luck with your beat and punish approach.

Pommy bastard1:58 pm 22 Jan 09

However, boot camps have been found to be largely ineffective in generating long-term growth and advancement among struggling teens. In fact, some studies have shown that recidivism rates are 90% among youth that have attended teen boot camps.

Further, traditional boot camp training fosters a “we-versus-they” attitude and the view that trainees deserve degrading treatment. Finally, traditional boot camps promote an aggressive model of leadership and a conflict-dominated style of interaction (Morash & Rucker, 1990, pp. 210-211). In the few programs where recidivism rates were lowered, this was attributed to the quality of the boot camp’s rehabilitation programming and post-program support, not to its military regime

http://www.canadventure.ca/family_resources/boot-camps-canada.htm

Awesome work by the cops on these two yoof-justice issues. Too often we rag on the police for not being around but I was very pleased to see them bust these little turds.

Pommy bastard1:55 pm 22 Jan 09

I was involved in such schemes (rock climbing and mountaineering instructor) myself back in the UK. The re-offending rates are no less than for peer groups who do not get the freebee holidays.

Sure they behave whilst on the training, but after?

neanderthalsis1:49 pm 22 Jan 09

Pommy bastard said :

Oh god, “give the crims adventure holidays, at the public expense, and they’ll come back as reformed little angels.”

Laughable.

It is laughable PB, but it works in many cases. I used to run alternative education programs for teens excluded from school. We used to incorporate “adventure training” as part of the program. Having to live out of a backpack, carry all your own food, find your own water, dig your own crapper, walk 15kms a day and sleep under a thin sheet of plastic is a good wake up call to the harsh realities of life.

Mind you, all the staff bar one were ex army and we took no crap from the kiddies.

And getting there and then deciding you don’t want to play doesn’t work for the poor little dears, because the only way out is to walk.

Pommy bastard1:37 pm 22 Jan 09

Oh god, “give the crims adventure holidays, at the public expense, and they’ll come back as reformed little angels.”

Laughable.

Ways to try and kill teenagers.

Rock climbing.
Long Desert treks.
Mountain Climbing.
River expeditions.
Tall ship voyages.
Cross-country ski treks.
Mountain hut restoration.
Macquarie Island restoration.

Who has some more??????????
There are some great organisation doing this work.

Timberwolf6512:49 pm 22 Jan 09

Interesting Dexi, veerrryyy iinnteressstingg!

Try. You have to try and kill them. They are resourceful little f###### when they want to be. Killin them isn’t that easy you know. They seem to enjoy the experience once they have survived.

What is it you think they are doing when they are committing crimes. Trying to live. No they are challenging death. Just in a simple lazy way.

Pommy bastard12:18 pm 22 Jan 09

It’s that invisible writing button you have to press. I do wish I could find it.

tylersmayhem12:14 pm 22 Jan 09

ure you take them out and try to kill them.

Whoa…who said anything about killing anyone?

Beserk Keyboard Warrior12:06 pm 22 Jan 09

I’m inclined to hold the offenders responsible moreso than their parents. I’m pretty sure by the age of 16 you have a firm grasp of right & wrong.

Can’t wait till I see a white Proton sedan with P plates in the Monash area. Can’t be too many of those $hitboxes getting around.

Sure you take them out and try to kill them. Seriously it works. Helps set boundaries. You let them talk and listen to them. Then you try to kill them in as many ways as you can think of.

Showing kids there is more to life then what they have seen. There are forces in the world they are yet to feel. That there are other ways to behave and react.

Its simple stuff. Just takes time, money and good adult role models. You can do all that without laying a hand on them.

Cheap, quick and asshole role models can beat them to an inch of their life. Simpler, lazy way.

tylersmayhem11:58 am 22 Jan 09

I have never attended a school that had corporal punishment (and went to school from teh 60’s to the 80’s), but the schools I went to had firm rules in place, which were enforced. Punishment was things like detention, and notifying parents and so forth, and this was backed up by teh parents. And that is the key. If parents sit back and do nothing, or worse, back up teh kids, then you end up with evil kids who are a blight on society now and are going to get worse.

You don’t need to inflict violence on them, but punishments must be meaningful, and not pleasant to the perps.

As a matter of interest Ant – were yo disciplined at home, and if so how?

Pommy bastard11:53 am 22 Jan 09

ant said :

I have never attended a school that had corporal punishment (and went to school from teh 60’s to the 80’s), but the schools I went to had firm rules in place, which were enforced. Punishment was things like detention, and notifying parents and so forth, and this was backed up by teh parents. And that is the key. If parents sit back and do nothing, or worse, back up teh kids, then you end up with evil kids who are a blight on society now and are going to get worse.

You don’t need to inflict violence on them, but punishments must be meaningful, and not pleasant to the perps.

I wholey agree.

Timberwolf6511:52 am 22 Jan 09

Look I think it’s great if you can raise kids without having to smack or beat them ( Your wording , not mine) and they grow up to be well behaved citizens of society, that’s just great and more power to those people.

FC you don’t have kids and I’m not going to say you have no right to comment as everyone has the right to their own opinion, it will be interesting to see however if and when you do have kids that you will never raise your hand to them, I hope you don’t have to, but on the same note those that have tried other forms of discipline and have found that a good smack (not beating) works for them and keeps the child on the right track, should have the right to do so without any form of criticism.

dexi said :

Sure timberwolf your so well adjusted.

I’m not sure what you mean by this dexi …please explain!

I have never attended a school that had corporal punishment (and went to school from teh 60’s to the 80’s), but the schools I went to had firm rules in place, which were enforced. Punishment was things like detention, and notifying parents and so forth, and this was backed up by teh parents. And that is the key. If parents sit back and do nothing, or worse, back up teh kids, then you end up with evil kids who are a blight on society now and are going to get worse.

You don’t need to inflict violence on them, but punishments must be meaningful, and not pleasant to the perps.

Sure timberwolf your so well adjusted.

“So its a drug issue then”
No, What I meant to draw attention to by saying that it was likely linked with substance use/misuse was that the problem of youth voilence usually doesn’t stand alone youths who exhibit violent “thug like” behaviour using have a multiple and complex needs/issues, one of which may be the misuse/abuse of subtances.
So I don’t think the issue cant addressed without looking at ALL the issues that surround this type of thing.

No – I don’t have kids. (Here comes the bit about how can I comment on this issue then?)
I was brought up well, without voilence as punishment – I respect my parents, the law, have good job, own my own home – I was disciplined in other ways – through removal of rewards – being sent to my room, things of that nature.
However, I am not posting on this thread about the use of physical punishement by parents as a form of disipline (there have been various threads on this on the riotact previously). I do not want to get into that deabte (been there, done that).I was posting on this thread about the fact that “giving these kids a beating” is not the best way to stop this kind of thing from happening.

“Who said anything about beating the kids.”
Uh – are you kidding? The posts that said we should do exactly that is what I am commenting on!!

Deadmandrinking11:22 am 22 Jan 09

I hope you all realize that crime rates were higher at the beginning of last century (albeit more inaccurate). Hanging was around then, too. We’ve actually been experiencing a gradual decline towards where we are now, without hanging.

Timberwolf6511:17 am 22 Jan 09

tylersmayhem said :

As I’ve said many times before in many other threads, Gungahlin drive need duplicating and we have these little turds roaming our streets beating people up. Let’s bypass the whole value of beating the shit out of them, and put them out to work. I’d be all for the old fashioned chain gangs who used to develop and establish towns. Let’s start it again, and meantime the weird mindless morons who are out for human rights can start their case.

This brilliant solution should mean better use of tax dollars, we get to see and use the results of criminal blood, sweat & tears and everyone wins. Brilliant!

That’s a bloody great idea, I would be happy with that.
Beats beating the shit out of them!

tylersmayhem11:11 am 22 Jan 09

As I’ve said many times before in many other threads, Gungahlin drive need duplicating and we have these little turds roaming our streets beating people up. Let’s bypass the whole value of beating the shit out of them, and put them out to work. I’d be all for the old fashioned chain gangs who used to develop and establish towns. Let’s start it again, and meantime the weird mindless morons who are out for human rights can start their case.

This brilliant solution should mean better use of tax dollars, we get to see and use the results of criminal blood, sweat & tears and everyone wins. Brilliant!

Timberwolf6511:08 am 22 Jan 09

FC said :

there have been various studies done saying that the death penalty is not a detterent that is effectively stopping people murdering other people. google it.

Of course it’s not going to stop sick deranged people from murdering, but it sure gets their unwanted arses six feet under, one less murderer we have to support while they live it up in the big house and also insuring they will never re offend.

FC said :

did I claim to have an answer to the problem? No
The issue of youth voilence (which is probably linked in with substance use/misuse) is a complex issue with no simple solution.

So it’s a drug issue then??

FC said :

I think that parenting your children in general (without the need for violence) would be good step toward it. But even with or without the issue of parents ‘smacking their kids’ when they misbehave (which is not what I was orginally posting about), that assumes that there are loving, caring parents looking out for their kids in the first place, providing them with the other neccessities of a healthy upbring (along with discipline: food, clothing, shelter, nurturing, support, ,love etc)
When in reality this is not the case for a lot of kids.
And when these things aren’t in place, being violent to them is not going to turn them into more responsible citizens, more it would just make them more angry at the world and give them more reasons to justify to themselves there own lashing out of violence.

So in the above quote you have stated (along with discipline: food etc etc etc, what are your methods of discipline you use on your kids, I take it you have kids? You just didn’t answer my question in the above posts… do you have kids?

This is not the “bleeing heart” lefty opinion – but if you want results – in my opionion – the solution of “giving these kids a beating” is just going to create more problems for everyone. And I for one think that is stupid.

Who said anything about “beating kids” a good smack or a belt on the arse is what I’m talking about.

Um you said that punishing violence with voilence was abolished over 40 years ago. I didn’t realise that the 90s was over 40 years ago. Damn. I knew I shouldn’t have dopped advanced maths in college.

there have been various studies done saying that the death penalty is not a detterent that is effectively stopping people murdering other people. google it.

“So what do you suggest we try instead of punishment of criminals, more molly-coddling to make up for their poor parenting?”
god you talk some crap. Did I mentioan that we shouldn’t ‘punish’ criminals?
NO – Where are you getting this from??? :-\
And I don’t know what molly coddling is – but no, I don’t suggest that.

Pommy bastard10:20 am 22 Jan 09

FC said :

ITs just completely hipocrital PB.
and what a lot of crap that there hasn’t been violent punishment for the last 4o years.
For one corporal punishment in schools ended only semi recently.

“Semi-recently”???? Well that’s a new expression.

All corporal punishment in schools (not that I was talking about in schools in any case) was abandoned in the early 1990’s, but it’s use has been in decline since the 60’s.

And what about countries that stil have the death penalty (the most extreme form of physical punishment for crime) it has been proved over and over again that this is NOT deterring people from committing those crimes.

How do you know how many people DO NOT commit a crime due to the chance of being executed? How are those figures compiled?

So would you suggest that in countries where voilence toward criminals by police/authority figures, have less crime and voilent crimes??

It’s impossible to tell, as you cannot measure crimes “in posse.”

So what do you suggest we try instead of punishment of criminals, more molly-coddling to make up for their poor parenting?

did I claim to have an answer to the problem? No
The issue of youth voilence (which is probably linked in with substance use/misuse) is a complex issue with no simple solution.
I think that parenting your children in general (without the need for violence) would be good step toward it. But even with or without the issue of parents ‘smacking their kids’ when they misbehave (which is not what I was orginally posting about), that assumes that there are loving, caring parents looking out for their kids in the first place, providing them with the other neccessities of a healthy upbring (along with discipline: food, clothing, shelter, nurturing, support, ,love etc)
When in reality this is not the case for a lot of kids.
And when these things aren’t in place, being violent to them is not going to turn them into more responsible citizens, more it would just make them more angry at the world and give them more reasons to justify to themselves there own lashing out of violence.
This is not the “bleeing heart” lefty opinion – but if you want results – in my opionion – the solution of “giving these kids a beating” is just going to create more problems for everyone. And I for one think that is stupid.

Timberwolf6510:18 am 22 Jan 09

FC said :

ITs just completely hipocrital PB.
and what a lot of crap that there hasn’t been violent punishment for the last 4o years.
For one corporal punishment in schools ended only semi recently.
And what about countries that stil have the death penalty (the most extreme form of physical punishment for crime) it has been proved over and over again that this is NOT deterring people from committing those crimes.
So would you suggest that in countries where voilence toward criminals by police/authority figures, have less crime and voilent crimes??

So again, what is your answer to the problem FC, would love to read your thoughts on this and also do you have kids?.

ITs just completely hipocrital PB.
and what a lot of crap that there hasn’t been violent punishment for the last 4o years.
For one corporal punishment in schools ended only semi recently.
And what about countries that stil have the death penalty (the most extreme form of physical punishment for crime) it has been proved over and over again that this is NOT deterring people from committing those crimes.
So would you suggest that in countries where voilence toward criminals by police/authority figures, have less crime and voilent crimes??

Timberwolf6510:07 am 22 Jan 09

FC said :

So where is the evidence that these children grew up with no discipline?
They could equally have been brought up with harsh physical disciple, which could be why they think that violence is okay.
HOWEVER – my comment said nothing about children not being disciplined. It was about the hypocricy of punishing something for voilence, with voilence.
Also – how can you say that “obviously have no fear of getting into trouble” they may have great fear – but just never expected to get caught.
And bringing back the cane – what, because that prevented children from the last generation from growing up to be criminals/thugs.
please..
So many assumptions being made…

Well what is your answer to the problem then! Yes these kids could of been brought up on harsh beatings and no love, that is probably the case here.

All I’m saying is that when I was a kid I got a good belting WHEN I did something wrong and I respect my parents for it, I respect the law and my elders. I have never stolen, or bashed anyone or been in trouble with the law, I have a good job, home and beautiful kids to my partner of 17years.

It’s worked for me and so far it’s worked for my kids.

I know if they brought back the cane in schools there would be a hell of a lot more learning going on which creates smarter kids, kids getting jobs, kids having confidence in themselves to get somewhere in life, make something of themselves….

Each to their own though, there is many a debate on this topic.

la mente torbida10:02 am 22 Jan 09

Put your hands on your hips, and bring you knees in tiiiiight!

la mente torbida10:02 am 22 Jan 09

It’s just a step to the left, then a step to the riiiiiiight!

Pommy bastard9:48 am 22 Jan 09

Oh god, the old liberal bleeding heart nonsense “we shouldn’t punish violence with violence”. Well we haven’t for the last 40 years or more. And now the miscreants are running unafraid of the consequences of their actions, and the lives of good citizens are being damaged each and every day.

Why would they give a F###. They already know that the adults in their life just want to fu## and beat them anyway. I doubt they would expect anything less.

They need to be beaten brutally for it to have any effect beyond fear and hatred.

Screaming, agonising, prolonged, pain. Deprivation, humiliation. You can’t go half hearted at these things or they won’t work. You cant just slap the little fellas and think its going to have any effect. Submission only comes near death.

The rest of the kiddies will just act out the violence, back in the community.

They do need to suffer consequences for what they’re doing. There’s too much of this goin gon, we all see it around us on a daily basis. Rotten, lazy parents who have inflicted dangerous kids on society.

We expect something to be done to express how we feel to these nasty creatures, and some kind of deterrent enacted to make them understand that if they do bad thigns, bad things will happen back to them. It will always be an uphill battle because their early upbringing will dictate how they are for the rest of their lives.

But letting them get away with a stern talking to will NOT change their foul outlook on life or their attitudes to the rest of us.

So where is the evidence that these children grew up with no discipline?
They could equally have been brought up with harsh physical disciple, which could be why they think that violence is okay.
HOWEVER – my comment said nothing about children not being disciplined. It was about the hypocricy of punishing something for voilence, with voilence.
Also – how can you say that “obviously have no fear of getting into trouble” they may have great fear – but just never expected to get caught.
And bringing back the cane – what, because that prevented children from the last generation from growing up to be criminals/thugs.
please..
So many assumptions being made…

Timberwolf659:20 am 22 Jan 09

FC said :

“This is bloody terrible, these kids need a good belting.”

“Name and shame the parents.. then beat the kids without mercy”

“Offenders like this should be given physical punishment”

So we’re shocked at their voilence yet we want to punish them with… voilence.
Great lesson they’ll learn :-\

Well, look what no discipline does to kids, they end up having no respect for anything, anyone. They seem to think they have the right to go out and gang bash innocent people for their phones or wallets.

They obviously have no fear of getting into trouble, no respect for authority and don’t care that what they are doing is wrong.

They need to bring back the cane in schools, the kid will learn to respect, and learn. If they want to muck up and do the wrong thing they have made that choice and they will get the cane.

I’m not talking about bashing them senseless for no reason. Just a good smack when they need it.

“This is bloody terrible, these kids need a good belting.”

“Name and shame the parents.. then beat the kids without mercy”

“Offenders like this should be given physical punishment”

So we’re shocked at their voilence yet we want to punish them with… voilence.
Great lesson they’ll learn :-\

Offenders like this should be given physical punishment whether it be caning like the American 16 yr old caned for vandalism in Singapore or being put in a chain gang. The problem is that any incoming party which would permit such punishment would face lawsuits galore.

So you’re mid teens, life is too comfortable, too easy, Mum and Dad have been abject failures at raising you with any moral standards and you think it’s acceptable to hunt innocent people as part of a gang……

The reality is they need yanking out from their suburban comfort zone and given a short sharp, harsh lesson in the realities of life. Sadly our pathetic excuse for a judicial system will only encourage them to re offend rather then make them realise they have to respect the law and other people.

Don’t we have anti-terrorism laws for this kind of thing?

ant said :

They should be extradited to Queanbeyan for burning public trees. The Qbn courts don’t muck around. no slap on teh wrist for them.

maybe, they were trying to get to the new mitchell youth facility. a dip in a pool in the middle of summer sounds like a good thing.

They should be extradited to Queanbeyan for burning public trees. The Qbn courts don’t muck around. no slap on teh wrist for them.

Pommy bastard12:19 pm 21 Jan 09

The trouble is we have a “second chance” fixation here.

These tw@t’s should be given an immediate custodial sentence, a couple of years or more. May make them think twice about doing it again.

two girls, two guys…hell of a double date! 😉

Kizzle said :

Name and shame the parents.. then beat the kids without mercy.

Couldn’t agree more. But we all know some pea hearted Magistrate will listen to some cock and bull story about what a tragic life they have had and they’ll get a slap on the wrist and told to be good boys.

tylersmayhem11:32 am 21 Jan 09

Operation Caprae brings peace to strife torn Tuggeranong:

Where the f**k are these children’s parents – and will THEY be held accountable?

Vic Bitterman11:31 am 21 Jan 09

Well said guys, I agree with your comments.

Good role models have a greater effect than parents (good parental role models are the best). I’m not sure what kind of role model would beat children into submission. Maybe the role models their parents had might.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy11:01 am 21 Jan 09

Looks like some good work by the cops on this.

Chain gangs. Pink overalls. If the parents won’t raise their kids properly, the state can do it for them.

Name and shame the parents.. then beat the kids without mercy.

Timberwolf6510:23 am 21 Jan 09

This is bloody terrible, these kids need a good belting.

How dare these kids take away peoples freedom to walk the streets at night, what can I say we are to blame for this, there is no discipline, there is no respect.

If they go to Children’s Court, and get fined, do their parents have to pay the fine?

Looking at these incidents, the term “children’s court” looks rather silly.

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