19 April 2016

Power Corrupts Absolutely

| John Hargreaves
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Did anyone notice the oceans of salivation over Eddie Obeid’s, Joe Tripodi’s and Ian MacDonald’s discomfort when sprung by the NSW ICAC? All those Labor haters thought the wrath of God had finally arrived on those scumbags.

I need to say that I love Labor desperately. The Party has been good to me and has given me the opportunity to do things for other people that I otherwise would not have been able to dream of.

Imagine my joy at the discomfort of those Labor haters now that we have Hartcher, Cornwell and Owen sprung now! And there is a suggestion that Mr Loughnane, Federal Director of the Libs, knew about the dodginess.

And before anyone screams libel, defamation and slander, I merely quote from articles published in the fourth estate, in print and online.

However, after all this entertainment, let us consider and acknowledge the state of corruption in ACT politics since 1989. There has been none! So to all those Assembly haters out there, take note! Your preference to be governed by NSW as we are just a “country town” is to endorse governance by the corrupt.

All sides of politics during my 15 years there and my research and personal contact with colleagues of all persuasions have confirmed this; have not had the slightest hint of political corruption. And there was none between 1989 and 1998, either. Something to be immensely proud of!

Corruption only comes from the addiction to money or power. It is interesting to note that those who have indulged in the corruption for greed have usually been supremely well off. By Mr Cornwell’s own admission he took the money to pay off a PAYG tax debt. Obeid did what he did to feather his own nest financially. Neither needed the money! It was just pure greed! And both knew what they did was illegal!

No doubt some of our pollies have been offered bribes but to my recollection none has even contemplated accepting them. And they are the worst paid ministers and Members in the country.

We should be consistent in our condemnation of corruption in NSW by all parties and congratulatory to our home grown pollies here.

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VYBerlinaV8_is_back9:33 am 22 Aug 14

2604 said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

What is it about people who spend their lives trying to do nice things for the less well off do you find offensive?

This is a nice piece of idealism. The truth is that the money spent by ACT Labor on the genuinely less well-off – homeless people, mentally ill people, disabled people – is a drop in the ocean compared to the money it has spent, or plans to spend, currying favour with the electorate and realising various left-wing fantasies.

Light rail. “Free” wi-fi in Civic and on ACTION buses. The GWS Giants. A $70 million primary school in Bonner. The Skywhale. Unionised bus drivers earning $110,000 per annum doing a minimum-wage job. Solar feed-in tariffs. A geothermally heated pool at Lake Burley Griffin. An obscenely high renewable energy target. All of these indulgences are paid for by all ACT residents, including low and middle-income earners, whose rates, car registration and other duties are ratcheted up every year.

If you really want to do something for “poor” people, why don’t you persuade your party to get rid of its poker machines, whose ill effects are proven to fall disproportionately on low-income earners? Why don’t you advocate for a reversal of the increased “sin” taxes on cigarettes and alcohol introduced by Kevin Rudd, which also disproportionately affected the less well off? Why don’t you campaign against the relentless raises in the minimum wage championed by the ACTU, which lock more and more people out of the employment market every year?

Nailed it.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

What is it about people who spend their lives trying to do nice things for the less well off do you find offensive?

This is a nice piece of idealism. The truth is that the money spent by ACT Labor on the genuinely less well-off – homeless people, mentally ill people, disabled people – is a drop in the ocean compared to the money it has spent, or plans to spend, currying favour with the electorate and realising various left-wing fantasies.

Light rail. “Free” wi-fi in Civic and on ACTION buses. The GWS Giants. A $70 million primary school in Bonner. The Skywhale. Unionised bus drivers earning $110,000 per annum doing a minimum-wage job. Solar feed-in tariffs. A geothermally heated pool at Lake Burley Griffin. An obscenely high renewable energy target. All of these indulgences are paid for by all ACT residents, including low and middle-income earners, whose rates, car registration and other duties are ratcheted up every year.

If you really want to do something for “poor” people, why don’t you persuade your party to get rid of its poker machines, whose ill effects are proven to fall disproportionately on low-income earners? Why don’t you advocate for a reversal of the increased “sin” taxes on cigarettes and alcohol introduced by Kevin Rudd, which also disproportionately affected the less well off? Why don’t you campaign against the relentless raises in the minimum wage championed by the ACTU, which lock more and more people out of the employment market every year?

dungfungus said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

dungfungus said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

dungfungus said :

Masquara said :

John Hargreaves, what do you think of governments taking revenue from pokies?

As distinct from political donations?

When people join the Labor Club they know that it was created to support the Labor movement. This might surprise you but the Labor Club is not the only club in town with pokies and is not the only club to support political parties. The Vikings do so as well, so does the Southern Cross Club to a small degree.

It should be noted that all donations to the Labor Party are declared. If I remember correctly it was the Liberal Party which under reported its revenue after the last election and got into strife.

In terms of inappropriate processes, you may know that the Labor Party moved legislation to prevent Members from employing their family members as staffers. Yet that didn’t stop the then Leader of the Opposition from employing his brother in law as Chief of Staff.

It was not the Labor Party who tapped into Minister Wood’s email account and had a Privileges Committee into the matter resulting in the resignation of a senior staffer in the then Leader of the Opposition’s office.

I was not the Labor Party whose member was required to repay expenditure from their office allowances as were two Liberal members.

In answer to the question on money from pokies, I have no problem at all with charities receiving a slice of poker machine revenue. The issues for problem gamblers are addressed by clubs very well and the vast majority of members are not problem gamblers. Evidence to the Assembly committees was given by Clubs ACT and shows the real extent of the problem and the clubs reaction. I suggest you do some more research.

John, before ACT Labor Clubs created their property trust, didn’t they give the ACT Labor Party over $500,000 a year for political campaigning?
I doubt if even the CSCC could match that.

Why the fixation on Labor? what about the Libs owning property and using rents to pay for their campaigning, At least the ALP is transparent cos even you know a little about their affairs. Not much but a little.

There is not a property trust per se set up. This is the last I intend to speculate on my Party’s affairs until such time as the Libs come clean about their funding and stop lying on their electoral returns.

Someone told me that the conservatives and their supporters were greater haters than the Labor people. I didn’t think it was true but now I’m not so sure. What is it about people who spend their lives trying to do nice things for the less well off do you find offensive? No-one said Labor was perfect but it is not the dragon you make it out to be.

If you persist in your dislike for Labor show me how the Libs are better and put up or shut up.

If, on the other hand, you are just being obtuse to get a rise out of me, go to the top of the class. But don’t take your books, you won’t be there long enough.

John, stop muddying the waters. I am talking about the Labor Clubs and their wealth, not the Canberra Labor Party.
Now, did the Labor Clubs give ACT Labor amounts of around $500,000 regularly for election campaigning or not?

John is obviously having difficulty getting the details so here is the link from the AEC which confirms the Labor Clubs gave electoral donations to the ACT Labor Party of $662,067.00 in the year 2009 -2010.
http://fadar.aec.gov.au/ReceiptsEntityPartyList.aspx?SubmissionID=24&ClientID=55&ClientTyCo=P

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

In answer to the question on money from pokies, I have no problem at all with charities receiving a slice of poker machine revenue.

That’s disingenuous, John Hargreaves. My question was about pokie machine revenue for government, not the proportionally very small distribution back to the community. If you actually cared about the less well off, you and your mates would have agitated to keep pokie money where it will be spent on food and groceries, and the kids.

justin heywood7:12 pm 21 Aug 14

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Why the fixation on Labor?

….Someone told me that the conservatives and their supporters were greater haters than the Labor people. I didn’t think it was true but now I’m not so sure. What is it about people who spend their lives trying to do nice things for the less well off do you find offensive? No-one said Labor was perfect but it is not the dragon you make it out to be.
.

Given the title of the piece, ‘Power Corrupts’, I thought it might be an interesting article – an old political warhorse reflecting on the temptations of power. But no, by the third paragraph you were bashing the old enemy, playing up their faults while minimising or excusing your own side, as if you were still playing the great game.

Labor Haters? You seem to be barely capable of writing a paragraph that doesn’t take a swipe at the Libs. When the faults of Labor are pointed out to you you become defensive or evasive.
You obfuscate when asked about pokie money funding your party.
You happily smear leading Liberal party figures that have never been before a court, but become defensive about your own sponsoring of a memorial to the notorious Al Grassby, on the grounds that that he was never convicted.

I don’t think anybody expects you to sing the praises of the Liberal Party John, but have an objective look at your own posts. There are plenty of haters on both sides of politics already here. As an ex-player, surely you’ve got more interesting things to say than Blue Team Bad, Red Team Good.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

dungfungus said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

dungfungus said :

Masquara said :

John Hargreaves, what do you think of governments taking revenue from pokies?

As distinct from political donations?

When people join the Labor Club they know that it was created to support the Labor movement. This might surprise you but the Labor Club is not the only club in town with pokies and is not the only club to support political parties. The Vikings do so as well, so does the Southern Cross Club to a small degree.

It should be noted that all donations to the Labor Party are declared. If I remember correctly it was the Liberal Party which under reported its revenue after the last election and got into strife.

In terms of inappropriate processes, you may know that the Labor Party moved legislation to prevent Members from employing their family members as staffers. Yet that didn’t stop the then Leader of the Opposition from employing his brother in law as Chief of Staff.

It was not the Labor Party who tapped into Minister Wood’s email account and had a Privileges Committee into the matter resulting in the resignation of a senior staffer in the then Leader of the Opposition’s office.

I was not the Labor Party whose member was required to repay expenditure from their office allowances as were two Liberal members.

In answer to the question on money from pokies, I have no problem at all with charities receiving a slice of poker machine revenue. The issues for problem gamblers are addressed by clubs very well and the vast majority of members are not problem gamblers. Evidence to the Assembly committees was given by Clubs ACT and shows the real extent of the problem and the clubs reaction. I suggest you do some more research.

John, before ACT Labor Clubs created their property trust, didn’t they give the ACT Labor Party over $500,000 a year for political campaigning?
I doubt if even the CSCC could match that.

Why the fixation on Labor? what about the Libs owning property and using rents to pay for their campaigning, At least the ALP is transparent cos even you know a little about their affairs. Not much but a little.

There is not a property trust per se set up. This is the last I intend to speculate on my Party’s affairs until such time as the Libs come clean about their funding and stop lying on their electoral returns.

Someone told me that the conservatives and their supporters were greater haters than the Labor people. I didn’t think it was true but now I’m not so sure. What is it about people who spend their lives trying to do nice things for the less well off do you find offensive? No-one said Labor was perfect but it is not the dragon you make it out to be.

If you persist in your dislike for Labor show me how the Libs are better and put up or shut up.

If, on the other hand, you are just being obtuse to get a rise out of me, go to the top of the class. But don’t take your books, you won’t be there long enough.

John, stop muddying the waters. I am talking about the Labor Clubs and their wealth, not the Canberra Labor Party.
Now, did the Labor Clubs give ACT Labor amounts of around $500,000 regularly for election campaigning or not?

HiddenDragon6:11 pm 21 Aug 14

It’s starting to sound like an ACT ICAC, with its own Tardis, could follow some very interesting lines of inquiry.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA6:10 pm 21 Aug 14

dungfungus said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

dungfungus said :

Masquara said :

John Hargreaves, what do you think of governments taking revenue from pokies?

As distinct from political donations?

When people join the Labor Club they know that it was created to support the Labor movement. This might surprise you but the Labor Club is not the only club in town with pokies and is not the only club to support political parties. The Vikings do so as well, so does the Southern Cross Club to a small degree.

It should be noted that all donations to the Labor Party are declared. If I remember correctly it was the Liberal Party which under reported its revenue after the last election and got into strife.

In terms of inappropriate processes, you may know that the Labor Party moved legislation to prevent Members from employing their family members as staffers. Yet that didn’t stop the then Leader of the Opposition from employing his brother in law as Chief of Staff.

It was not the Labor Party who tapped into Minister Wood’s email account and had a Privileges Committee into the matter resulting in the resignation of a senior staffer in the then Leader of the Opposition’s office.

I was not the Labor Party whose member was required to repay expenditure from their office allowances as were two Liberal members.

In answer to the question on money from pokies, I have no problem at all with charities receiving a slice of poker machine revenue. The issues for problem gamblers are addressed by clubs very well and the vast majority of members are not problem gamblers. Evidence to the Assembly committees was given by Clubs ACT and shows the real extent of the problem and the clubs reaction. I suggest you do some more research.

John, before ACT Labor Clubs created their property trust, didn’t they give the ACT Labor Party over $500,000 a year for political campaigning?
I doubt if even the CSCC could match that.

Why the fixation on Labor? what about the Libs owning property and using rents to pay for their campaigning, At least the ALP is transparent cos even you know a little about their affairs. Not much but a little.

There is not a property trust per se set up. This is the last I intend to speculate on my Party’s affairs until such time as the Libs come clean about their funding and stop lying on their electoral returns.

Someone told me that the conservatives and their supporters were greater haters than the Labor people. I didn’t think it was true but now I’m not so sure. What is it about people who spend their lives trying to do nice things for the less well off do you find offensive? No-one said Labor was perfect but it is not the dragon you make it out to be.

If you persist in your dislike for Labor show me how the Libs are better and put up or shut up.

If, on the other hand, you are just being obtuse to get a rise out of me, go to the top of the class. But don’t take your books, you won’t be there long enough.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

dungfungus said :

Masquara said :

John Hargreaves, what do you think of governments taking revenue from pokies?

As distinct from political donations?

When people join the Labor Club they know that it was created to support the Labor movement. This might surprise you but the Labor Club is not the only club in town with pokies and is not the only club to support political parties. The Vikings do so as well, so does the Southern Cross Club to a small degree.

It should be noted that all donations to the Labor Party are declared. If I remember correctly it was the Liberal Party which under reported its revenue after the last election and got into strife.

In terms of inappropriate processes, you may know that the Labor Party moved legislation to prevent Members from employing their family members as staffers. Yet that didn’t stop the then Leader of the Opposition from employing his brother in law as Chief of Staff.

It was not the Labor Party who tapped into Minister Wood’s email account and had a Privileges Committee into the matter resulting in the resignation of a senior staffer in the then Leader of the Opposition’s office.

I was not the Labor Party whose member was required to repay expenditure from their office allowances as were two Liberal members.

In answer to the question on money from pokies, I have no problem at all with charities receiving a slice of poker machine revenue. The issues for problem gamblers are addressed by clubs very well and the vast majority of members are not problem gamblers. Evidence to the Assembly committees was given by Clubs ACT and shows the real extent of the problem and the clubs reaction. I suggest you do some more research.

John, before ACT Labor Clubs created their property trust, didn’t they give the ACT Labor Party over $500,000 a year for political campaigning?
I doubt if even the CSCC could match that.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

dungfungus said :

Masquara said :

John Hargreaves, what do you think of governments taking revenue from pokies?

As distinct from political donations?

When people join the Labor Club they know that it was created to support the Labor movement. This might surprise you but the Labor Club is not the only club in town with pokies and is not the only club to support political parties. The Vikings do so as well, so does the Southern Cross Club to a small degree.

It should be noted that all donations to the Labor Party are declared. If I remember correctly it was the Liberal Party which under reported its revenue after the last election and got into strife.

In terms of inappropriate processes, you may know that the Labor Party moved legislation to prevent Members from employing their family members as staffers. Yet that didn’t stop the then Leader of the Opposition from employing his brother in law as Chief of Staff.

It was not the Labor Party who tapped into Minister Wood’s email account and had a Privileges Committee into the matter resulting in the resignation of a senior staffer in the then Leader of the Opposition’s office.

I was not the Labor Party whose member was required to repay expenditure from their office allowances as were two Liberal members.

In answer to the question on money from pokies, I have no problem at all with charities receiving a slice of poker machine revenue. The issues for problem gamblers are addressed by clubs very well and the vast majority of members are not problem gamblers. Evidence to the Assembly committees was given by Clubs ACT and shows the real extent of the problem and the clubs reaction. I suggest you do some more research.

So, ACT Labor is squeaky clean then?

justin heywood11:45 am 21 Aug 14

rosscoact said :

Masquara said :

John Hargreaves, what do you think of governments taking revenue from pokies?

What do you think of sporting groups and the Cerebral Palsy Alliance taking money from pokies?

So, it’s all OK ’cause some of the pokie money is given to charity? Who is the biggest recipient poke money?

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

….I have no problem at all with charities receiving a slice of poker machine revenue. The issues for problem gamblers are addressed by clubs very well and the vast majority of members are not problem gamblers. Evidence to the Assembly committees was given by Clubs ACT and shows the real extent of the problem and the clubs reaction. I suggest you do some more research.

I’m not sure that Clubs ACT are the right group to consult on this John, although they may tell you what you want to hear. The Productivity Commission studied gambling in 2009, and found that 40% of pokie revenue comes from problem gamblers, and that problem gamblers impact 10 other people on average.
Maybe things have really turned around since 2009, but I doubt it.

That means that a very large slice of the money that has funded ACT Labor over the years has come from problem gamblers, something I’m sure you knew but prefer not to dwell on. True, there’s been little corruption detected in Canberra. Why bother with brown paper bags when the cash rolls in every pension day.

http://www.pc.gov.au/projects/inquiry/gambling-2009/report

John Hargreaves Ex MLA10:38 am 21 Aug 14

dungfungus said :

Masquara said :

John Hargreaves, what do you think of governments taking revenue from pokies?

As distinct from political donations?

When people join the Labor Club they know that it was created to support the Labor movement. This might surprise you but the Labor Club is not the only club in town with pokies and is not the only club to support political parties. The Vikings do so as well, so does the Southern Cross Club to a small degree.

It should be noted that all donations to the Labor Party are declared. If I remember correctly it was the Liberal Party which under reported its revenue after the last election and got into strife.

In terms of inappropriate processes, you may know that the Labor Party moved legislation to prevent Members from employing their family members as staffers. Yet that didn’t stop the then Leader of the Opposition from employing his brother in law as Chief of Staff.

It was not the Labor Party who tapped into Minister Wood’s email account and had a Privileges Committee into the matter resulting in the resignation of a senior staffer in the then Leader of the Opposition’s office.

I was not the Labor Party whose member was required to repay expenditure from their office allowances as were two Liberal members.

In answer to the question on money from pokies, I have no problem at all with charities receiving a slice of poker machine revenue. The issues for problem gamblers are addressed by clubs very well and the vast majority of members are not problem gamblers. Evidence to the Assembly committees was given by Clubs ACT and shows the real extent of the problem and the clubs reaction. I suggest you do some more research.

Masquara said :

John Hargreaves, what do you think of governments taking revenue from pokies?

As distinct from political donations?

Masquara said :

John Hargreaves, what do you think of governments taking revenue from pokies?

What do you think of sporting groups and the Cerebral Palsy Alliance taking money from pokies?

John Hargreaves, what do you think of governments taking revenue from pokies?

Matt Watts said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

justin heywood said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Al Grassby was not a crook and was exonerated from trumped up charges in a court of law….

Interesting, and I wonder if you really believe that (does anyone?)

I always thought that you put up the statue as a giant F.U. to everyone not in the club. Not your finest hour.

I did it to honour his contribution to multicultural affairs, as Immigration minister and Commissioner for Community Relations. It is easy to believe the redneck stories and it is easy to deride people. I feel some compassion for the Mackay family but don’t believe that Al had anything to do with Donald Mackay’s murder. And the courts agree with me.

In answer to Matt Watt’s question about what it feels to be corrupt, the answer is – I don’t know. I still live in Wanniassa with my family and I live on my pension. The only brown paper bags I have had had pies in them.

David Marr got it right on the Insiders this morning talking to Mr Miserablism – keep the score, Gerard… three Labor Mins, no federal implication against how many Lib mins? 2 former Premiers, a fed parl sec, and perhaps the federal Lib machine.

Matt, be very careful about what you imply… your numbers are a bit revealing about the corruption endemic in the blue corner.

I never asked you what it was like to be corrupt; I was asking about concepts such as whether the legally protected gravy train heading from pokies to ALP coffers could potentially be seen as corrupt, etc. Keep sidestepping.

Not any more. The Labor party has done some creative accounting.

justin heywood9:02 pm 20 Aug 14

Yes, power corrupts alright. The ruling party in Canberra is funded largely through pokie revenue from its clubs.
And where is the only casino in Australia (possibly the world) that is forbidden to have pokiesi? Yes, Canberra, where ex-MLAs come here to tell us how clean their government is.

(And who would have thought a party that funds itself from the social misery caused by poker machines could claim the high moral ground!)

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

justin heywood said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Al Grassby was not a crook and was exonerated from trumped up charges in a court of law….

Interesting, and I wonder if you really believe that (does anyone?)

I always thought that you put up the statue as a giant F.U. to everyone not in the club. Not your finest hour.

I did it to honour his contribution to multicultural affairs, as Immigration minister and Commissioner for Community Relations. It is easy to believe the redneck stories and it is easy to deride people. I feel some compassion for the Mackay family but don’t believe that Al had anything to do with Donald Mackay’s murder. And the courts agree with me.

In answer to Matt Watt’s question about what it feels to be corrupt, the answer is – I don’t know. I still live in Wanniassa with my family and I live on my pension. The only brown paper bags I have had had pies in them.

David Marr got it right on the Insiders this morning talking to Mr Miserablism – keep the score, Gerard… three Labor Mins, no federal implication against how many Lib mins? 2 former Premiers, a fed parl sec, and perhaps the federal Lib machine.

Matt, be very careful about what you imply… your numbers are a bit revealing about the corruption endemic in the blue corner.

I never asked you what it was like to be corrupt; I was asking about concepts such as whether the legally protected gravy train heading from pokies to ALP coffers could potentially be seen as corrupt, etc. Keep sidestepping.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

justin heywood said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Al Grassby was not a crook and was exonerated from trumped up charges in a court of law….

Interesting, and I wonder if you really believe that (does anyone?)

I always thought that you put up the statue as a giant F.U. to everyone not in the club. Not your finest hour.

I did it to honour his contribution to multicultural affairs, as Immigration minister and Commissioner for Community Relations. It is easy to believe the redneck stories and it is easy to deride people. I feel some compassion for the Mackay family but don’t believe that Al had anything to do with Donald Mackay’s murder. And the courts agree with me.

In answer to Matt Watt’s question about what it feels to be corrupt, the answer is – I don’t know. I still live in Wanniassa with my family and I live on my pension. The only brown paper bags I have had had pies in them.

David Marr got it right on the Insiders this morning talking to Mr Miserablism – keep the score, Gerard… three Labor Mins, no federal implication against how many Lib mins? 2 former Premiers, a fed parl sec, and perhaps the federal Lib machine.

Matt, be very careful about what you imply… your numbers are a bit revealing about the corruption endemic in the blue corner.

Gerard Henderson is the most sensible and articulate panellist on Onesiders; very unfair to call him Mr. Miserabilism.
Gerard made the point that the ICAC is supposed to be about corruption and the matter of receiving election donations from developers which is unlawful is NSW is different to receiving a personal benefit which accrued to some former (and current) Labor ministers when they stayed for free at someone’s ski lodge at Perisher, for example.
There is a lot more to come from the ICAC so you be very careful what you imply also.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA8:05 pm 17 Aug 14

justin heywood said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Al Grassby was not a crook and was exonerated from trumped up charges in a court of law….

Interesting, and I wonder if you really believe that (does anyone?)

I always thought that you put up the statue as a giant F.U. to everyone not in the club. Not your finest hour.

I did it to honour his contribution to multicultural affairs, as Immigration minister and Commissioner for Community Relations. It is easy to believe the redneck stories and it is easy to deride people. I feel some compassion for the Mackay family but don’t believe that Al had anything to do with Donald Mackay’s murder. And the courts agree with me.

In answer to Matt Watt’s question about what it feels to be corrupt, the answer is – I don’t know. I still live in Wanniassa with my family and I live on my pension. The only brown paper bags I have had had pies in them.

David Marr got it right on the Insiders this morning talking to Mr Miserablism – keep the score, Gerard… three Labor Mins, no federal implication against how many Lib mins? 2 former Premiers, a fed parl sec, and perhaps the federal Lib machine.

Matt, be very careful about what you imply… your numbers are a bit revealing about the corruption endemic in the blue corner.

justin heywood9:00 pm 14 Aug 14

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Al Grassby was not a crook and was exonerated from trumped up charges in a court of law….

Interesting, and I wonder if you really believe that (does anyone?)

I always thought that you put up the statue as a giant F.U. to everyone not in the club. Not your finest hour.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Matt_Watts said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

As it was put to me today, in NSW there is a race to the bottom. So how are the cyclists fairing? On the red team we have three Labor ministers gone. Obeid, MacDonald and Tripodi. On the blue team we have Liberal ministers, Hartcher, Cornwell, and Owen. But don’t forget a Premier (O’Farrell) and a parliamentary secretary (Ficarra). Oh, nearly forgot Sinodinos. Well! It looks as though the blue team is way ahead in the race!

Other contenders may well come out. There was some suggestion that the NSW Labor Right may have others but no evidence yet. A suggestion has emerged that the federal Director of the blue team(Loughnane) may be implicated but he is on the reserve bench at the moment.

This race is the Tour de Bottom and the paloton from the blue corner has it stitched up.

Interesting what this suggests about the different parties’ internal cultures… Team blue and team red… still cheering for the red team members even if they are carded…? I suppose there’s nothing new there… Al Grassby was one of the biggest crooks of the lot, so they erected a statue of him.

Al Grassby was not a crook and was exonerated from trumped up charges in a court of law. It is easy to defame the dead and Grassby did more to further harmony in this country than any other pollie since federation. He had a heart for the non Anglo Celtic Australians whereas Scott Morrison and George Brandis …. well nuff said.

It’s even easier to blindly follow a team, it seems. I note your willingness to comment in response to easy “red team vs blue team” issues yet you still haven’t commented on substantive questions of what it means to be corrupt. If you wish to be a mere cheerleader, that’s up to you, but I would have hoped for more from a former long-standing MLA.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA1:54 pm 14 Aug 14

minkshaman said :

“So to all those Assembly haters out there, take note! Your preference to be governed by NSW as we are just a “country town” is to endorse governance by the corrupt.”

My preference is to be governed by Federal Government again actually.

OK… bring on Tony Abbott, Julie Bishop, Joe Hockey, George Brandis, Eric Abetz, Scott Morrison, Mathias Cormann, Christopher Pyne, be careful what you wish for!

John Hargreaves Ex MLA1:53 pm 14 Aug 14

davo101 said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Indeed, the people we spoke to interstate suggested that these institutions end up being a law unto themselves and we should avoid it.

LOL. Were they possibly called Greiner, Obeid, or O’Farrell. Of course politicians hate the ICAC because it works. Why do you think every other state’s version has less powers than they do.

There are two possible causes as to why there has been not “the slightest hint of political corruption”:

1. The ACT has a low rate of corruption.
2. The ACT has a low probability of detection.

On the other hand it could just be we’re so small it hasn’t happened yet. If there are 17 assembly members and self-government has been running for 25 years then that’s 425 polly.years. NSW has 135 parliamentarians and 1500 councillors so they rack up 1600 polly.years per year. A quick glance at the ICAC history shows that they find about two corrupt pollys per year or one every 800 polly.years. At the same rate we would expect to have found 0.5 corrupt pollys in the ACT since self-government. Which is about how many there have been.

The people of whom I spoke were a past Chief Minister from NT, the Lord Mayor of Brisbane, a WA Attorney General, a Committee member from Victoria and a couple of others. I have never met Mr Greiner (but thanks for reminding me of him) nor Mr Obeid or Mr O’Farrell. Thankfully.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA1:50 pm 14 Aug 14

Matt_Watts said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

As it was put to me today, in NSW there is a race to the bottom. So how are the cyclists fairing? On the red team we have three Labor ministers gone. Obeid, MacDonald and Tripodi. On the blue team we have Liberal ministers, Hartcher, Cornwell, and Owen. But don’t forget a Premier (O’Farrell) and a parliamentary secretary (Ficarra). Oh, nearly forgot Sinodinos. Well! It looks as though the blue team is way ahead in the race!

Other contenders may well come out. There was some suggestion that the NSW Labor Right may have others but no evidence yet. A suggestion has emerged that the federal Director of the blue team(Loughnane) may be implicated but he is on the reserve bench at the moment.

This race is the Tour de Bottom and the paloton from the blue corner has it stitched up.

Interesting what this suggests about the different parties’ internal cultures… Team blue and team red… still cheering for the red team members even if they are carded…? I suppose there’s nothing new there… Al Grassby was one of the biggest crooks of the lot, so they erected a statue of him.

Al Grassby was not a crook and was exonerated from trumped up charges in a court of law. It is easy to defame the dead and Grassby did more to further harmony in this country than any other pollie since federation. He had a heart for the non Anglo Celtic Australians whereas Scott Morrison and George Brandis …. well nuff said.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA1:47 pm 14 Aug 14

justin heywood said :

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

As it was put to me today, in NSW there is a race to the bottom. So how are the cyclists fairing? On the red team we have three Labor ministers gone. Obeid, MacDonald and Tripodi. On the blue team we have Liberal ministers, Hartcher, Cornwell, and Owen. But don’t forget a Premier (O’Farrell) and a parliamentary secretary (Ficarra). Oh, nearly forgot Sinodinos. Well! It looks as though the blue team is way ahead in the race!

Other contenders may well come out. There was some suggestion that the NSW Labor Right may have others but no evidence yet. A suggestion has emerged that the federal Director of the blue team(Loughnane) may be implicated but he is on the reserve bench at the moment.

This race is the Tour de Bottom and the paloton from the blue corner has it stitched up.

So your team wins again! Congratulations John!

Team Liberals win. I am a member of Team Labor…..

“So to all those Assembly haters out there, take note! Your preference to be governed by NSW as we are just a “country town” is to endorse governance by the corrupt.”

My preference is to be governed by Federal Government again actually.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

As it was put to me today, in NSW there is a race to the bottom. So how are the cyclists fairing? On the red team we have three Labor ministers gone. Obeid, MacDonald and Tripodi. On the blue team we have Liberal ministers, Hartcher, Cornwell, and Owen. But don’t forget a Premier (O’Farrell) and a parliamentary secretary (Ficarra). Oh, nearly forgot Sinodinos. Well! It looks as though the blue team is way ahead in the race!

Other contenders may well come out. There was some suggestion that the NSW Labor Right may have others but no evidence yet. A suggestion has emerged that the federal Director of the blue team(Loughnane) may be implicated but he is on the reserve bench at the moment.

This race is the Tour de Bottom and the paloton from the blue corner has it stitched up.

this comment displays the worst of politicians, their parties and why I could never support any of them.

Yeah who cares about wide scale corruption from politicians as long as my “team” is not as bad as their “team”.

Disgraceful.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Indeed, the people we spoke to interstate suggested that these institutions end up being a law unto themselves and we should avoid it.

LOL. Were they possibly called Greiner, Obeid, or O’Farrell. Of course politicians hate the ICAC because it works. Why do you think every other state’s version has less powers than they do.

There are two possible causes as to why there has been not “the slightest hint of political corruption”:

1. The ACT has a low rate of corruption.
2. The ACT has a low probability of detection.

On the other hand it could just be we’re so small it hasn’t happened yet. If there are 17 assembly members and self-government has been running for 25 years then that’s 425 polly.years. NSW has 135 parliamentarians and 1500 councillors so they rack up 1600 polly.years per year. A quick glance at the ICAC history shows that they find about two corrupt pollys per year or one every 800 polly.years. At the same rate we would expect to have found 0.5 corrupt pollys in the ACT since self-government. Which is about how many there have been.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

As it was put to me today, in NSW there is a race to the bottom. So how are the cyclists fairing? On the red team we have three Labor ministers gone. Obeid, MacDonald and Tripodi. On the blue team we have Liberal ministers, Hartcher, Cornwell, and Owen. But don’t forget a Premier (O’Farrell) and a parliamentary secretary (Ficarra). Oh, nearly forgot Sinodinos. Well! It looks as though the blue team is way ahead in the race!

Other contenders may well come out. There was some suggestion that the NSW Labor Right may have others but no evidence yet. A suggestion has emerged that the federal Director of the blue team(Loughnane) may be implicated but he is on the reserve bench at the moment.

This race is the Tour de Bottom and the paloton from the blue corner has it stitched up.

Interesting what this suggests about the different parties’ internal cultures… Team blue and team red… still cheering for the red team members even if they are carded…? I suppose there’s nothing new there… Al Grassby was one of the biggest crooks of the lot, so they erected a statue of him.

justin heywood11:49 am 14 Aug 14

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

As it was put to me today, in NSW there is a race to the bottom. So how are the cyclists fairing? On the red team we have three Labor ministers gone. Obeid, MacDonald and Tripodi. On the blue team we have Liberal ministers, Hartcher, Cornwell, and Owen. But don’t forget a Premier (O’Farrell) and a parliamentary secretary (Ficarra). Oh, nearly forgot Sinodinos. Well! It looks as though the blue team is way ahead in the race!

Other contenders may well come out. There was some suggestion that the NSW Labor Right may have others but no evidence yet. A suggestion has emerged that the federal Director of the blue team(Loughnane) may be implicated but he is on the reserve bench at the moment.

This race is the Tour de Bottom and the paloton from the blue corner has it stitched up.

So your team wins again! Congratulations John!

John Hargreaves Ex MLA11:07 am 14 Aug 14

As it was put to me today, in NSW there is a race to the bottom. So how are the cyclists fairing? On the red team we have three Labor ministers gone. Obeid, MacDonald and Tripodi. On the blue team we have Liberal ministers, Hartcher, Cornwell, and Owen. But don’t forget a Premier (O’Farrell) and a parliamentary secretary (Ficarra). Oh, nearly forgot Sinodinos. Well! It looks as though the blue team is way ahead in the race!

Other contenders may well come out. There was some suggestion that the NSW Labor Right may have others but no evidence yet. A suggestion has emerged that the federal Director of the blue team(Loughnane) may be implicated but he is on the reserve bench at the moment.

This race is the Tour de Bottom and the paloton from the blue corner has it stitched up.

John Hargreaves Ex MLA said :

Masquara said :

“There has been none!”
How do you know?

The answer is that I know most of the pollies since self govt very well. Also, remember that bribes are OFFERED by vested interests and not that often sought (although it does happen).

I was part of a tri-partite Assembly committee who looked into having an ICAC type organisation here and no evidence was proffered then to give any cause to create one. Indeed, the people we spoke to interstate suggested that these institutions end up being a law unto themselves and we should avoid it.

If that is the case… have you ever been offered bribes? If not, it really says more about the citizens of Canberra than the pollies, right?

John Hargreaves Ex MLA10:53 am 14 Aug 14

Masquara said :

“There has been none!”
How do you know?

The answer is that I know most of the pollies since self govt very well. Also, remember that bribes are OFFERED by vested interests and not that often sought (although it does happen).

I was part of a tri-partite Assembly committee who looked into having an ICAC type organisation here and no evidence was proffered then to give any cause to create one. Indeed, the people we spoke to interstate suggested that these institutions end up being a law unto themselves and we should avoid it.

None? It depends on one’s interpretation. Like… banning pokies from pubs and the casino, when the ruling party owns one of the largest clubs (and is supported by pokies). Or how about the government sponsored Civic/ ANU development where it was only *after* the development’s announcement that the Labor club, which had been sitting on the Workers Club site for years, sold the site?

“There has been none!”
How do you know?

miz said :

None . . . [that have come to light as yet]. Perhaps it’s harder to identify corruption in the ACT because the whole process is so lax and there are things like ‘call in powers.’
You must admit there have been some pretty dodgy developments that have inexplicably gone ahead despite smelling pretty bad.

I would like to see what probity checks are planned for the Canberra tram tenderers given what has happened in Brazil with recent rail contracts.

The only real difference is that NSW has an ICAC to uncover these things. The ACT doesn’t.

neanderthalsis said :

Imagine the wonders that may be unearthed if some brave soul stared digging around the development deals done by ACT Labor during their time in power here.

What about the 460,000 dollar deal for a CBR logo and hastag?

Given to the same advertising agency that worked on ACT Labor’s last election campaign?

None . . . [that have come to light as yet]. Perhaps it’s harder to identify corruption in the ACT because the whole process is so lax and there are things like ‘call in powers.’
You must admit there have been some pretty dodgy developments that have inexplicably gone ahead despite smelling pretty bad.

By paragraph 6 I was giggling, by the end of the post, well …

“Obeid did what he did to feather his own nest financially. Neither needed the money! It was just pure greed! And both knew what they did was illegal!”

That’s a big call Johno.
I don’t recall Obeid being charged with anything as an outcome of his appearance at the ICAC hearings and I would expect that he won’t be charged.
Ever hear of the “octopus syndrone”? Obeid will bring more people undone if he is charged with anything.

Nothing like that in the ACT fortunately but we have a sort of oligarchy running things.

HiddenDragon6:07 pm 13 Aug 14

“…let us consider and acknowledge the state of corruption in ACT politics since 1989. There has been none! …” – until the creation of the NSW ICAC and similar bodies in other States, some might have made similarly sweeping statements about those jurisdictions, as well.

With four year fixed terms, a unicameral legislature (not advocating an upper house, just noting that we don’t have one to keep an eye on the executive branch) and a local media which is not exactly relentless in its scrutiny of the ACT Government (more often than not serving as a mouthpiece/cheer squad) there is every potential for cosiness and arrogance to develop and lead to outcomes which are not in the public interest.

A decently resourced ACT ICAC, with the senior appointments made for a non-renewable fixed term (ideally of people from outside this little town), would be public money well spent.

Steady on John .. those Labour haters your on about may be back. Isn’t there something going on down in Victoria about a house being painted under dubious funding arrangements. Haven’t followed it much past the headlines but it seems to involve some Labour type peoples.

LOL,

Or they simply haven’t been caught.

No doubt some of our pollies have been offered bribes but to my recollection none has even contemplated accepting them. And they are the worst paid ministers and Members in the country.

John, how can you know whether they ‘contemplated’ accepting the bribes? Do you have a secret power to be inside their heads?
Also, our ministers may be (according to you) “the worst paid ministers in the country” but I bet I could muster a large crowd who would argue that they’re still paid far to much in relation to the work they do for us.

Fair call John, but incompetence can be as bad as, if not worse than, corruption – and Ministers in ACT Governments of both colours have been guilty of that since 1989.

neanderthalsis9:42 am 13 Aug 14

Imagine the wonders that may be unearthed if some brave soul stared digging around the development deals done by ACT Labor during their time in power here.

Two things:

The title should be “Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely”. I have the power at my place of employment to choose between a felt-tip or a ball-point pen despite of which I haven’t taken any bribes.

Also absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We don’t have anything like ICAC in this jurisdiction, who knows what we might find if we start turning over some rocks.

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