15 July 2009

Proposed direct sale of land to Canberra Muslim Community in Nicholls

| Brianh
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In the local paper stuffed right on the back page is a notice to sell land at Nicholls. block 17 section 73, next to the Nicholls shop to the CMC, Canberra Muslim Community.

Not many people know what is going on so lets spread the word and find out.

A public information drop in session will be held at the Palmerston Community Centre, Tiptree Crescent, Palmerston – Monday 30 july 2009 3pm – 7pm.

Come and express your view’s.

[ED – Does anyone get upset when these deals are done for other groups?]

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see, refer my post on what i said in refrence to loui, im not racist…..

Granny said :

I actually do consider the Nicholls carpark to be downright dangerous, however. It’s probably the worst carpark I’ve ever experienced in Canberra. There are some good shops at Nicholls which I’d use more often, but the carpark actually does put me off, so I go elsewhere if I can.

Granny, if you don’t live in Nicholls, you shouldn’t be using the shops anyway. They are reserved for the elite Nicholls’s ratepayers only

off to the pound with you yapyapyap…….ya mongrel….

bullshit…….noone had any problem with muslims at all untill they started blowing themselves and others up…..skin colour has nothing to do with it……

That’s why I hate Catholics and Protestants; just can’t stop blowing themselves up. As for willos, I say kill’m all before they wreck the waterways

jenjen, can you identify your elite palace for us please?

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=nicholls%20ACT

Just like a beautiful tree covered hill, but made of peuce concrete.

ps Profound aopols to the good folk of Nicholls, whatever their taste in architecture.

Ian said :

wot said fred said :

last time I looked muslim was a religion, not a race. So anti-muslim per se is not racist, it’s anti-relgionist, innit?

Maybe, but I’m quite confident that the majority of anti-muslim people would have no problem with the religion if its followers were predominantly white anglo-saxons. Unfortunately for Islam, the majority of its followers just by coincidence happen to be inconveniently brown skinned.

bullshit…….noone had any problem with muslims at all untill they started blowing themselves and others up…..skin colour has nothing to do with it……

Please come back jenjen, we’re not quite done with you.

wot said fred said :

last time I looked muslim was a religion, not a race. So anti-muslim per se is not racist, it’s anti-relgionist, innit?

Maybe, but I’m quite confident that the majority of anti-muslim people would have no problem with the religion if its followers were predominantly white anglo-saxons. Unfortunately for Islam, the majority of its followers just by coincidence happen to be inconveniently brown skinned.

Jenjen if you don’t like it, why don’t you leave nappy valley and move to where the humans live; the inner North or South.

jenjen said :

Take a look around it seems we have nothing but CMC rent a crowd writing on this subject. Get your heads out of your buckets you obviously don’t live in the suburb and have no idea.

I think you have have more urgent matters to attend to. Your Urban Assault 4wd has a bit of dirt on it.

jenjen said :

Nicholls shops were built to serve the Nicholls community (rate payers of Nicholls), now we have a greedy government not extending a car park to service rate payers as they would rather gain millions for selling the land to be used. This land should be used to service the rate payers of this Suburb not bring in hordes from other areas who don’t pay our rates. How many rate payers of Nicholls would gain advantage of this so called “place of prayer”???????? Not many????? Get advice and opinions from residents who live near these “place of prayer” in other areas and NSW, they will let you know what goes on. This small land in Nicholls is not practical for the proposal. RATE PAYERS OPINION SHOULD COME FIRST. If this transaction goes ahead say goodbye to our elite suburb and our family we will be out of here.

If you think its elite I suggest you spend a week or so in a Police car working in Gungahlin.

Elite….don’t make me vomit

“Not many people know what is going on so lets spread the word and find out”

I didn’t take out a full page ad telling people I was buying my house. Did I err Brian

Its a f*cking church simply by another name. Get over it

Jim Jones said :

Burkats?

*guffaw*

Jim Jones said :

Burkats?

I see what you did there. Buckets and Burkas combined into a clever noun. 😀

And Jenjen, I’d love to be able to afford to buy into Nicholls. The prospect of living near you appeals so much to me. Maybe one day, if I save up enough wads of cash my dream can be truly realised.

Burkats?

*lol* I just feel sorry for the Islamic community. Did anyone think to give them buckets??

Granny said :

jenjen said :

Take a look around it seems we have nothing but CMC rent a crowd writing on this subject. Get your heads out of your buckets you obviously don’t live in the suburb and have no idea.

Good grief! I’m glad I don’t live in Nicholls. Good neighbour, anyone?

Put your head in a bucket, you’ll hardly know she’s there.

jenjen said :

Take a look around it seems we have nothing but CMC rent a crowd writing on this subject. Get your heads out of your buckets you obviously don’t live in the suburb and have no idea.

Good grief! I’m glad I don’t live in Nicholls. Good neighbour, anyone?

jenjen said :

Take a look around it seems we have nothing but CMC rent a crowd writing on this subject. Get your heads out of your buckets you obviously don’t live in the suburb and have no idea.

Frightfully clever response.

How you knew that my head was in a bucket mystifies me.

I actually do consider the Nicholls carpark to be downright dangerous, however. It’s probably the worst carpark I’ve ever experienced in Canberra. There are some good shops at Nicholls which I’d use more often, but the carpark actually does put me off, so I go elsewhere if I can.

Jenjen this website was the first in Australia to publish the Danish mohammed cartoons.

We’re hardly cats paws of the CMC, although we are major sponsors of the Canberra musicians’ club.

But maybe you’ll be happier in camden?

Take a look around it seems we have nothing but CMC rent a crowd writing on this subject. Get your heads out of your buckets you obviously don’t live in the suburb and have no idea.

YapYapYap said :

jenjen said :

Nicholls shops were built to serve the Nicholls community (rate payers of Nicholls)If this transaction goes ahead say goodbye to our elite suburb and our family we will be out of here.

To my way of thinking Nicholls is Canberra’s ugliest suburb, packed with grotesque houses jammed onto tiny blocks. It’s not elite, it’s nothing more than pretentious, conspicuous consumption.

As to your attitude, jenjen, I’m with Jim:

Jim Jones said :

Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.

+ 1

Elite suburb, my Ar5e!

Holden Caulfield2:09 pm 17 Jul 09

Heavs said :

I have brown and yellow friends so I’m not racist.

Yeah, but Hawthorn are still wees and poos.

@#130 Hmm I never knew the Nicholls postcode was 1337. So elite it took me a while to find on the map. I kept looking too far south.

jenjen said :

Nicholls shops were built to serve the Nicholls community (rate payers of Nicholls)If this transaction goes ahead say goodbye to our elite suburb and our family we will be out of here.

To my way of thinking Nicholls is Canberra’s ugliest suburb, packed with grotesque houses jammed onto tiny blocks. It’s not elite, it’s nothing more than pretentious, conspicuous consumption.

As to your attitude, jenjen, I’m with Jim:

Jim Jones said :

Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.

…Nicholls shops were built to serve the Nicholls community (rate payers of Nicholls)…

Negative.
Nicholls Shops were built so that and a portion of the Nicholls community’s revenues could be received by the leaseholder through sub-leasing commercial space at profit.
These sub-leased premises need to generate their own revenue streams, so they can pay off their leases, and access a profitable revenue stream of their own.
In a commercial context, this is mostly done by selling things.
In order to sell things, businesses need customers.

Being able to drive to a location is a fairly good way for customers to access it.
Call these locations ‘primary destinations’, as a larger-scale example, think of the Nan Tien complex in Wollongong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nan_Tien_Temple

Its both temple, festival centre, charity outreach, social network, tourist attraction.

For simple non-industrial and customer-service trades (things like cafes, convenience stores, restaurants etc) the traffic heading to a primary destination brings with it increased customer exposure for those businesses.
If they’re not outrageously bigotted like yourself, they’ll recognise that the money from a loyal niche minority is just as good, if not better for the loyalty and regularity, as anyone else’s.

Nan Tien has been spectacularly successful for the wollongong economy.
(Don’t expect the Nicholls facility to rival Nan Tien in size though)

…now we have a greedy government not extending a car park to service rate payers as they would rather gain millions for selling the land to be used….

Carparks are a really low-tier development for economic activity, which frankly don’t attract a lot of skilled labour or local economic benefit beyond allowing more people to stay in an area.
If you have a choice between building a useful destination with secondary beneficial effects (which is already zoned appropriately) or a cost-bearing non-profit construction like a carpark, you’d be better of building a destination.

This land should be used to service the rate payers of this Suburb not bring in hordes from other areas who don’t pay our rates…

Seriously? You think rates and government incomes should only be used within the same _suburb_ they are received from, not for any cooperative benefits?

…How many rate payers of Nicholls would gain advantage of this so called “place of prayer”???????? Not many?????

How many people within a given suburb gain advantage from building a childcare centre?
If you’re being spectacularly narrowminded, only the people who use the facility either those with children of appropriate ages benefit, as they are allowed to get rid of the children for a few hours a day.

If you want to step back a bit though, the childcare centre contibutes to the local economy by letting women get back to work, learn about their children, catch up with eachother, etc.
As a consumer of goods, labour, and services, it required some construction work to occur originally, requires skills labour to operate, keeps food suppliers in trade, requires constant cleaning, provides education, etc.


Get advice and opinions from residents who live near these “place of prayer” in other areas and NSW, they will let you know what goes on. This small land in Nicholls is not practical for the proposal.

The land has only been sold, and I don’t think anyone has seen a final version of the proposal.
So there is no current proposal to be practical about, in that the DA is not lodged, no earth has been turned, no foundation laid.
It is still entirely theoretical.

RATE PAYERS OPINION SHOULD COME FIRST.
Anyone wanting to show interest a community stakeholder worth consulting can show up to information sessions, and get to know what the plan is, meet the players, discuss the issues, drown in their own hubris, etc.

If this transaction goes ahead say goodbye to our elite suburb and our family we will be out of here.
Good riddance, you sound like a horrible person to talk to, let alone have as judgemental neighbours…
Nothing screams “Sentient Human Waste” from the highest peaks quite like outspoken bigotry and retrograde ignorance.

jenjen said :

How many rate payers of Nicholls would gain advantage of this so called “place of prayer”????????

Showing your real colours there. Nice. REAL open minded. If this was a Christian “place of prayer” you wouldn’t bat an eyelid, you elitist, racist snob.

jenjen said :

If this transaction goes ahead say goodbye to our elite suburb and our family we will be out of here.

Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Nicholls shops were built to serve the Nicholls community (rate payers of Nicholls), now we have a greedy government not extending a car park to service rate payers as they would rather gain millions for selling the land to be used. This land should be used to service the rate payers of this Suburb not bring in hordes from other areas who don’t pay our rates. How many rate payers of Nicholls would gain advantage of this so called “place of prayer”???????? Not many????? Get advice and opinions from residents who live near these “place of prayer” in other areas and NSW, they will let you know what goes on. This small land in Nicholls is not practical for the proposal. RATE PAYERS OPINION SHOULD COME FIRST. If this transaction goes ahead say goodbye to our elite suburb and our family we will be out of here.

Yup, corner of Clive Steele Avenue and Isabella Drive, Monash. See below image for a google maps street view.

http://img148.imageshack.us/i/cicw.jpg/

Have been there a couple of times, once for an open day they were holding. There were a heap of people there, including diplomats, members of the islamic community and a heap of locals, curious to see the inside of the centre and meet the people. Oh, and there were no traffic issues… 😉

There is a mosque/cultural centre in Monash(?). Has anyone ever had anything bad to say about it? I recall they were inviting the community to drop in and learn what they do.

How many stakeholders he has to meet with?

For some reason I read this as “skateboarders” and was going to comment on that.

Granny said :

Brianh said :

… to the GCC the development of the shops got it wrong with the parking so lets make sure this development doesn’t and maybe some stronger glue and long bolts on the Nichols shops letters, kids tried to pull them off again and also when do we get our post box back and when will the AFP media change the story from the police chase saying it ended up over the other side of Gungahlin drive when in fact it ended at the Nicholls shop intersection, and when will the gas leak be fixed that seems to have the fire brigade called out all the time that ActewAGL try and fix but now has deep tyre treads in the mud, and when will the graffiti be removed from the wall of the shops and st George come out and clean the ATM that was egged some months ago and why did other bus stops get seats on Kelleway but the ones in front of the vacant land didn’t, racist NO! just fed up with this place looking more and more like a western Sydney suburb …

Brianh, if you feel so strongly about local issues you are more than welcome to attend GCC meetings and assist in lobbying re these issues.

It’s really not good enough to sit back and complain when some people I know are working themselves into the ground every day, sacrificing career and family opportunities, to advocate on your behalf.

You don’t see a fraction of it, my friend, believe me.

Do you want to know how many emails the president deals with every day? How many DAs he has to be across? How many stakeholders he has to meet with? How many submissions he has to write? How many times he’s worked through the night to serve your community, then had to work the next day?

He’s just an ordinary bloke trying to build a decent future for his kids and a strong community for us all to live in.

And I say good one them all,In relation to the mosque it will build a decent future for the kids and a strong community for us all to live in just as long as there is enought parking. I think its great all the hard work that gets done by the GCC.

well said, granny ; )

Brianh said :

… to the GCC the development of the shops got it wrong with the parking so lets make sure this development doesn’t and maybe some stronger glue and long bolts on the Nichols shops letters, kids tried to pull them off again and also when do we get our post box back and when will the AFP media change the story from the police chase saying it ended up over the other side of Gungahlin drive when in fact it ended at the Nicholls shop intersection, and when will the gas leak be fixed that seems to have the fire brigade called out all the time that ActewAGL try and fix but now has deep tyre treads in the mud, and when will the graffiti be removed from the wall of the shops and st George come out and clean the ATM that was egged some months ago and why did other bus stops get seats on Kelleway but the ones in front of the vacant land didn’t, racist NO! just fed up with this place looking more and more like a western Sydney suburb …

Brianh, if you feel so strongly about local issues you are more than welcome to attend GCC meetings and assist in lobbying re these issues.

It’s really not good enough to sit back and complain when some people I know are working themselves into the ground every day, sacrificing career and family opportunities, to advocate on your behalf.

You don’t see a fraction of it, my friend, believe me.

Do you want to know how many emails the president deals with every day? How many DAs he has to be across? How many stakeholders he has to meet with? How many submissions he has to write? How many times he’s worked through the night to serve your community, then had to work the next day?

He’s just an ordinary bloke trying to build a decent future for his kids and a strong community for us all to live in.

p1 said :

We’ll need someone with a good lung capacity to read it without fainting from loss of oxygen, since they can’t pause for a breath.

I was thinking maybe an Aboriginal: they can do circular breathing (enables continuous didgeridoo playing). Otherwise, maybe one of those free divers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freediving

farnarkler said :

So what if muslims build whatever it is they want in Nicholls. If those so opposed to islam really want to get rid of it, a few Molotov cocktails and some homemade thermite will do the job admirably.

Dude, not cool.

We’ll need someone with a good lung capacity to read it without fainting from loss of oxygen, since they can’t pause for a breath.

p1 said :

I want to see the sign on the mosque that says “BRIAN WANTED THIS” too.

Maybe we can all chip in and get a banner made for the opening?

Man, that would be bloody brilliant. And someone could read out his speech at the opening in full, yelling where appropriate.

I want to see the sign on the mosque that says “BRIAN WANTED THIS” too.

Maybe we can all chip in and get a banner made for the opening?

0_o

Just… wow.

I want to see the sign on the mosque that says “BRIAN WANTED THIS” too. 😀

Somewhere at the start of this thread, there was a comment about guidelines with respect to news articles, and it was suggested that race/gender/religion/etc should only be mentioned when it pertained to the issue at hand. In this case the name of the organisation includes the faith, the the use they plan for the land specifically relates to this. While Brian was a little vague in his OP, and hasn’t followed that up with terribly clear “clarifications”, I feel a little sorry for him after all the crap that has come his way.

Does the RA have a duty of care to not drive it’s patrons to post long, single sentence rants in their defence?

Looks like Al and his crew are doing a decent job. An issue like this needs to be considered objectively: any objections that are motivated by unsubstantiated fears need to be dealt-with clearly, and with facts and evidence. Likewise, things of concern should be raised and examined, not howled down as “racist”.

It’s really encouraging that the Gunghalin district has a council that is able to talk to the people proposing large developments, rather than having to go through a gov’t department and only being able to view plans and talk to the government people. This is a much more positive and sensible way.

Yes, I agree that Brianh may have miscalculated his message to audience delivery, but considering recent experiences in Camden, Kogarah, etc, throwing in a bonus reference to who it was sold to wasn’t _necessary_ unless you want to trigger emotional reactions.
(Compare how people would be react to “Community Facility Use Land directly sold to local community group” versus “Community Facility Use Land directly sold to ACT Muslim Community\Wheelchair Rugby League ACT\Adopt-an-Orphan”. Its only been sold\leased to reflect a change of title, there isn’t even a Development Application in to build something on it yet.)

I would like to hear both how this Gungahlin Al’s 2CC thingy went, and how the meeting goes, and why this site’s application apparently deserves the extra special attention though.

I have brown and yellow friends so I’m not racist.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy12:09 pm 16 Jul 09

In Queanbeyan, Muslim women don’t weat tents.

They wear tarps.

Jim Jones said :

That’s an awesome post! That’s not flame of the week, it’s like … freakout of the year or something.

Poor Brian, I honestly don’t think that there was ever any malice in the OP at all. To me, it really does look like a community notice … but you got done by the fact that it’s a very touchy issue.

Still, it’s been really funny.

Indeed, the whole topic has been a great read and most amusing. I’m pleased that you are not racist, Brian, and your post was most amusing. The lack of paragraph breaks and scarcity of periods gives it an admirable rant-like quality, especially when coupled with the brief yet impassioned capitalisation. Keep up the great work!

That’s an awesome post! That’s not flame of the week, it’s like … freakout of the year or something.

Poor Brian, I honestly don’t think that there was ever any malice in the OP at all. To me, it really does look like a community notice … but you got done by the fact that it’s a very touchy issue.

Still, it’s been really funny.

wow. no para breaks. and it reads like one big shout. anyone get the feeling brian just doesn’t like what is happening to nicholls?

What I’m saying is that you go to the meeting, ask questions, get informed, and treat their proposals with the same respect as you want them to treat any of yours in future.
These people are probably already either your neighbours, your friends’ neighbours, or even your neighbours’ friends.

You say These people, I’m not against the people, I just want to know the development plans and how they will effect the area and for instance the housing market, the roads, the shops. Doesn’t mean a negative it could be positive. As I have told people in the past few days, I don’t care what goes on the land just HOW! But hey, I’m not the one that planned the meeting, I’m not the one that published the add, I’m not the one that decided to have the meeting at Palmerston, I’m just a resident of Nicholls that would like to go to the meeting and with other people that now know of some development listen to what the plan is, If I like it I will even help be the one to do the first turn of soil but like any one else that may be at the meeting, if something is not right ask if they could change it or focus on a way to compimise! We will always have to live together, the Shops, The schools, the child care centre, the residents and the place of worship but it seems that people think that it is a race issue, if the feelings were that it is a race issue, do you think that is why they are having a meeting for this sale and not any of the others that people have mentioned, If it was a race issue then my OP would have been posted very different and to the GCC the development of the shops got it wrong with the parking so lets make sure this development doesn’t and maybe some stronger glue and long bolts on the Nichols shops letters, kids tried to pull them off again and also when do we get our post box back and when will the AFP media change the story from the police chase saying it ended up over the other side of Gungahlin drive when in fact it ended at the Nicholls shop intersection, and when will the gas leak be fixed that seems to have the fire brigade called out all the time that ActewAGL try and fix but now has deep tyre treads in the mud, and when will the graffiti be removed from the wall of the shops and st George come out and clean the ATM that was egged some months ago and why did other bus stops get seats on Kelleway but the ones in front of the vacant land didn’t, racist NO! just fed up with this place looking more and more like a western Sydney suburb but when someone says something it is all race related, if only it was going to be a swimming pool then a race issue would not even come into play nor a community meeting, in fact stuff it, I will be pushing for the CMC to make a fucking huge mosque, I want to see something that says BRIAN WANTED THIS, there is no need to hide what it is as long as they have parking I DON’T GIVE A FUCK and as long as for special events the cars don’t park over at the shops or on both sides of the road. I go to church, I have been to hill song and to the local catholic church, I have been to a lodge meeting and have also gone with a friend from Fiji to a uniting church, I lived in Rosehill and worked with many of Muslims and even attended a few do’s at a Parramatta mosque (plenty of parking out the back), I have worn a kilt and tried haggis and I have also picked up a hitch hiker and his friends who were Indian and drove them home, I claped when Rudd said sorry and gave my Aboriganal friend a hug. The point is is not race related and those who think so should not go to the meeting.

Fisho @#95 You said you live a couple of minutes from a mosque – can you / do you hear a call to prayer 5 times a day? Do mosques outside Islamic neighbourhoods do this?

Brianh said :

Sooooo… What every one is saying is that I should go out and read the Qur’an and learn to say “Ash-hadu an laa ilaha illa-lah Wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan rasulullah” meaning “I bear witness there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and I bear witness, Muhammad is His final messenger”

Not at all, really the only phrase you would need is “As-Salam alaykum. Asif, la atakallamu al-arabiyah.” (Hello and peace be upon you. Sorry, I speak no Arabic.)

What I’m saying is that you go to the meeting, ask questions, get informed, and treat their proposals with the same respect as you want them to treat any of yours in future.
These people are probably already either your neighbours, your friends’ neighbours, or even your neighbours’ friends.

Granny said :

He does do an amazing job. It’s really nice to have that recognised, deez!

I only wish we had a ‘Tuggeranong Al’ on our own local council!

I’m loving that this topic triggers a “ClickMuslim” muslim dating/marriage service via Google Ads. Something else for Brian to become upset with, perhaps?

“Its’ attrocius how these muslim’s can now use the interweb’s to date!”

*rolls eyes*

“Close down Catholic Schools (some! “thats a small %”) of the teachers and brothers are pedophiles” just as (some! “thats a small %”) of Muslims are extremist in their opinions and beliefs.

fnaah said :

My view is that people who can’t use an apostrophe correctly have no business opposing the sale of land to anyone who (presumably) wants to use it as a site for a school, or possibly ESL resource centre.

To be fair, JB uses greengrocer apostrophes from time to time. Many of us do!

He does do an amazing job. It’s really nice to have that recognised, deez!

Nice update Al. Keep up the great work in your community.

Gunghalin Al, very interesting reading. It has been a great debate so far, and seems pretty open minded thus far.

So what if muslims build whatever it is they want in Nicholls. If those so opposed to islam really want to get rid of it, a few Molotov cocktails and some homemade thermite will do the job admirably.

Gungahlin Al7:54 pm 15 Jul 09

I am heartened that the RA readers have responded so positively to this item. The Canberra community truly does seem to be above the sort of Alan Jones/Telegraph style anti-Islamic beat-ups we’ve seen in Sydney.

I heard this this morning from a Nicholls resident concerned that this one person was doorknocking and trying to drum up opposition – he said based on traffic but “I certainly got the impression there were other reasons he wasn’t keen on it.” His words – not mine.

And I have since been asked to discuss the proposal with Mark Parton on 2CC at 7.10 tomorrow morning.

For RA folk (and BrianH), some background (please excuse the lengthy post):

I understand the land has always been zoned Community Facility, so as Deezagood said (#50) everyone buying around it would have well known that something like this – including commensurate traffic generation – would eventuate at some stage.

Various proposals for the land have come and gone over several years, and GCC reps (back when Barry Dee was president) met with CMC and Bob McMullan back around 2003 to discuss the idea of a second place of worship for those of Islamic faith in Canberra. (There is already one at Yarralumla that exists without issue for surrounding residents.) The GCC executive of the day resolved to support CMC’s proposal.

I met in December 2007 with two CMC reps to discuss their plans and hopes for the site. They were very concerned that their proposal could lead to the same sorts of ill-informed and unfounded backlash that was at that time occurring in Sydney. We discussed the need for them to be proactive in getting the facts of their proposal out to Nicholls residents. They explained their intention to create a whole-of-community facility that would have halls available for any community groups, the only restriction being no alcohol on site. And as others have noted – it is not to be a school.

I also discussed the architectural design aspects, and suggested that the community may be more accepting of the centre if the buildings could be designed as something symbolic of the Islamic faith integrated (note *not* assimilated – something else altogether) within the Australian community. This would be in contrast to something that was merely a transplant/mimic of the minaret-clad ancient mosques of the Middle East – like those churches in Kaleen and even Wallaroo Rd appear. The president said he found my idea excited and stirred him. I haven’t seen their designs, but I understand from the rep I talked with today that it did follow this idea, and he mentioned it featuring colourbond, etc and being rather unrecognisable as a “mosque”.

I explained our discussion at a subsequent GCC meeting, and there was no change in the previous position of support. However they haven’t yet presented their plans to a GCC meeting. We had hoped to have them as guests this month, but our contact Rick wasn’t able to pull it together in time.

In the meantime, the issue of the traffic problems around the Nicholls shops has blown up, with Roads ACT proposing a solution that most people felt would not solve the problems. But it did do a brilliant job (together with a lot of effort from Alistair Coe I should say) at getting people interested in the issue. The Nicholls community centre was jam packed at a meeting a few weeks ago about the traffic, and Roads ACT came away with the understanding that their solution would have to also accommodate the likely traffic generated by the use on the vacant block also. When people asked what was planned for the site, I explained the above, and I don’t recall any adverse reactions from any of the residents and shopkeepers there that night.

I have since walked the whole site with Tony Gill and others from Roads ACT, and we agreed that they would need to integrate the three key parking uses into one holistic solution, and I believe this should involve using the existing roundabout as the primary exit point, with minimal bidirectional flows.

On the issue of direct sales of land, similar deals have recently been made by the LDA on behalf of the ACT Government for Gungahlin blocks to the Salvation Army and I think it is Uniting Church. These went through without a raised eyebrow, except for GCC concerns that two similar uses adjacent to each other would cause traffic congestion. Interestingly there were no community information meetings or similar at all on those two sites – wondering why they’ve felt the need to do things differently for this site?

As for BrianH not knowing about it all, well get involved a bit more Brian. There were certainly many other Nicholls residents well aware of the proposal (I told them). The land was ALWAYS going to go to some such use. A frequent complaint GCC receives is that not enough land is allocated within Gungahlin for churches (and other community facilities), and it is appropriate that the Government is moving to fix this. When the DA is lodged, there will be signs stuck up on the block (and they are big eye catching ones now following my complaint that the previous A4 ones were invisible), letters to surrounding residents and ads in the paper – so not much of a secret? But we will be assessing the DA when it finally goes through, to ensure that the overall parking issue is addressed, and lodging a submission if we feel it is needed.

My only regret with this is that the CMC didn’t heed my advice to take the lead with communicating their intentions to the locals earlier, and are now forced into a reactive mode, trying to address a nudge-wink campaign clearly aimed at people’s base fears.

No doubt I’ll hear more from you on 2CC tomorrow Brian. I promise not to pick on your use of apostrophes and your/you’re.

Get a life Brianh. Happenms all the time to Bible Bashing churches.

Is this somehow an issue because they are Muslim? Islam is not your enemy. Stop being dickheads.

We already have a Muslim school in Canberra, and there’s a Mosque a few minutes away from me. No problem.

Incidentally parking *is* an issue with a congregation of any size, try living near an Presbyterian Church on a major arterial road when another church is put up next door. Being parked in on a Sunday/whenever morning is pretty annoying.

If the block is big enough to accomodate parking it is a non issue. Hopefully it will be something exciting such as a Muslim shop or arts centre. Or perhaps a Halal butchery to service local residents.
Hint: Halal shops often have proper goat meat, and if you are into decent curries you cannot beat goat. Jabal’s in Mawson has some first rate meat on offer, the lamb and beef is superior to the majority of supermarket stuff. Much of the meat in Canberra is awful, I believe it is due to it being Queensland/Brahman breed crud.

Holden Caulfield6:48 pm 15 Jul 09

nyssa76 said :

Maybe the OP was misread, I didn’t see ‘school’ in that post.

However, if there is to be a school there it will have to follow specific guidelines showing ability to support itself, sustainability (new criteria) and that it will not take numbers away from the existing schools within the same area.

Those reasons above are why several schools (irrespective of denomination or cultural background) were denied several years ago.

*whoosh*

The school part wasn’t the point of my post. The Catholic part was. The point being, for those still catching up, would Brianh have still been so interested in seeking “view’s” and “spreading the word” if it was a more accepted group buying the land?

I guess we have to take Brianh’s word that he is just interested, but the manner and medium in which he has expressed this interest is a bit suspicious for mine.

Brianh, it seems strange to me that you think that RA is the appropriate medium for this notice. If this is such an issue why haven’t you just made up some flyers and delivered them to the houses of people who may actually be affected by any kind of development at the site?

What it looks like to me is that trying to gain the support of like minded people – who this development wont affect, in the hopes that they will assist you in halting the development.

Brianh said :

Brianh said :

Tonka said :

If you say so.

I still think that if it was a christian church in question this thread wouldn’t exist at all.

not true, the same thing happend in sydney with hill song, Im not sure what happend with carnwood when the construction started for the christian centre, also was a mention on talk back with the new masonic hall at barton.

“CHARNWOOD”

the construction of the new christian centre? what, charnwood high? they didn’t rip down the old building, they converted it (and probably spent a lot of time exorcising it too).

If a mosque, ask about the call to prayer. According to the link with audio here:

http://www.learnnc.org/lp/multimedia/4569

it is usually called (ie broadcast over loudspeaker) five times a day. That might be a bit disruptive for some?

Brianh said :

so what your saying is if was in front of your house you would be up all night with the firebrigade and police trying to stop thoses that are against the race or religion damaging and setting things on fire and graffitiing filth on walls, if that was me I would have my say! CLAP CLAP CLAP

I’m often already up at night trying to catch the ratbags who do it, and the instances are very rare. And saying that building approval to a Muslim group should be denied on the basis of potential noise caused by people racially persecuting and committing crimes against them? Thats pretty sad.

Sooooo… What every one is saying is that I should go out and read the Qur’an and learn to say “Ash-hadu an laa ilaha illa-lah Wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan rasulullah” meaning “I bear witness there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and I bear witness, Muhammad is His final messenger”

so then I have done a declaration of faith and will be accept by some as a Muslim, then go to the community meeting with out fear that I am in objection due to race or religious reasons, say what I have to say and leave. Sounds like something the Chaser would do.

wot said fred said :

Skidbladnir said :

Maybe, but there are two simple rules of RiotACT.

1) Normal person + Anonymity + Audience = Total dickhead
and
2) Do Not Feed the Trolls.

Skid, the point I was making which Jim seemed not to want to acknowledge or understand was that objecting to potential land use on the basis of religion does not necessarily equal racism. A religious centre will increase traffic flow, nosie, lack of amenity ect, as will many types of land use. Objecting on these grounds does not necessarily equal racism (or discrimination as someone else suggested). The apparent lack of local notice of possible use is the key isse. Jim (as once before) is very quick to denigrate opposing or alternative views to his and I’m sorry to have stooped to his level, even if my language wasn’t as fruity. Moderate if you will.

You could object to an islander cultural centre based on traffic or noise or whatever and claim it not be racist (even though pacific islander is a race), so your point about islam being a religion is entirely meaningless. Race or religion or whatever there could be real objections not related to that, which is what I’m gathering the basis of your argument is.

Jim Jones’ point was that the people who are claiming to have those concerns are actually just being xenophobic, given they hadn’t raised similar objections when other developments that could have caused the same issues had happened in the past, and trying to hide it.

deezagood said :

Brianh said :

until you posted about this organisation’s land purchase, I bet no-one even knew they were going to be there.

THAT IS THE F***ING POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ummm dude – didn’t you say in your OP that there was a public notice in the local paper on this issue ….. ?? That hardly makes it a super-secret affair.

did you see the notice?

Tonka said :

BrianH

Yes I understand what you’re saying… but I’m not talking about Hillsong in Sydney or the masonic centre in Barton, I’m talking about the thread YOU started because Canberra Muslims decided to build a mosque.

My point is (again….) if it had been a Christian church being built on that land then I highly doubt that YOU would have started this thread at all and then WE wouldn’t be discussing it.

If it was to go on that site I would be concerned for road safty, on street parking at wedings and christinings, at the moment the nicholls shops has shoking parking for customers, any bulding on that land if it does not have its own underground carpark would have its visitors parking all over the place. As another post mentioned if the car parking aragments were not apart of a plan then it would be stronger grounds to bring in paid parking, that is why at the community meeting the question will be asked.

BrianH

Yes I understand what you’re saying… but I’m not talking about Hillsong in Sydney or the masonic centre in Barton, I’m talking about the thread YOU started because Canberra Muslims decided to build a mosque.

My point is (again….) if it had been a Christian church being built on that land then I highly doubt that YOU would have started this thread at all and then WE wouldn’t be discussing it.

and Brian – really, there is no need to keep shouting.

Brianh said :

until you posted about this organisation’s land purchase, I bet no-one even knew they were going to be there.

THAT IS THE F***ING POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ummm dude – didn’t you say in your OP that there was a public notice in the local paper on this issue ….. ?? That hardly makes it a super-secret affair.

Brianh said :

Tonka said :

If you say so.

I still think that if it was a christian church in question this thread wouldn’t exist at all.

not true, the same thing happend in sydney with hill song, Im not sure what happend with carnwood when the construction started for the christian centre, also was a mention on talk back with the new masonic hall at barton.

“CHARNWOOD”

Tonka said :

If you say so.

I still think that if it was a christian church in question this thread wouldn’t exist at all.

not true, the same thing happend in sydney with hill song, Im not sure what happend with carnwood when the construction started for the christian centre, also was a mention on talk back with the new masonic hall at barton.

If you say so.

I still think that if it was a christian church in question this thread wouldn’t exist at all.

Tonka said :

BrianH

I’m sure if was a christian church being established that this would be a non-issue and we wouldn’t have heard from you at all.

So you’re apparently not racist, but a community minded person who cares about their neighbourhood… but, on the other hand… by your own admission you would applaud if you saw people burning or vandalising a place of Muslim worship.

You’re a credit to your race Brian. Good on ya mate.

YOU READ IT WRONG AND MAYBE I WROTE IT WRONG – “if that was me I would have my say! CLAP CLAP CLAP”. in refrence to the community meeting and having a voice. not towards damage or vandalism. sorry,

wot said fred4:30 pm 15 Jul 09

Skidbladnir said :

Maybe, but there are two simple rules of RiotACT.

1) Normal person + Anonymity + Audience = Total dickhead
and
2) Do Not Feed the Trolls.

Skid, the point I was making which Jim seemed not to want to acknowledge or understand was that objecting to potential land use on the basis of religion does not necessarily equal racism. A religious centre will increase traffic flow, nosie, lack of amenity ect, as will many types of land use. Objecting on these grounds does not necessarily equal racism (or discrimination as someone else suggested). The apparent lack of local notice of possible use is the key isse. Jim (as once before) is very quick to denigrate opposing or alternative views to his and I’m sorry to have stooped to his level, even if my language wasn’t as fruity. Moderate if you will.

BrianH

I’m sure if was a christian church being established that this would be a non-issue and we wouldn’t have heard from you at all.

So you’re apparently not racist, but a community minded person who cares about their neighbourhood… but, on the other hand… by your own admission you would applaud if you saw people burning or vandalising a place of Muslim worship.

You’re a credit to your race Brian. Good on ya mate.

Brianh said :

areaman said :

Brianh why didn’t you post about previous direct land sales to the Catholic education board in your area?

IT IS NOT A SCHOOL, the notice says a place of worship not of education and this post is to inform of a community meeting that will have alot of public intrest from people, for or against it that live in the local area.

OK, what about when there were direct land sales to Cornerstone or the Catholic Church? Direct sale is how land for houses of worship is sold as competitive bidding would be a farce.

until you posted about this organisation’s land purchase, I bet no-one even knew they were going to be there.

THAT IS THE F***ING POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Skidbladnir said :

Maybe, but there are two simple rules of RiotACT.

1) Normal person + Anonymity + Audience = Total dickhead
and
2) Do Not Feed the Trolls.

Point taken – sorry for the derail.

Cheers Skid.

Other faith-based groups usually only suffer an equivalent kind of discrimination if they’re doing something socially significant and compassionate, like programs for recovering drug addicts or new refugees or so forth. Something nobody wants in their back yard. Then they may also get the pitchfork treatment.

areaman said :

Brianh why didn’t you post about previous direct land sales to the Catholic education board in your area?

IT IS NOT A SCHOOL, the notice says a place of worship not of education and this post is to inform of a community meeting that will have alot of public intrest from people, for or against it that live in the local area.

Personally, I don’t like these direct sales – not to any group – especially when they are notified in this way.

Whatever you think of the OP’s motivation, perhaps it isn’t a bad thing that these things are made more public. It should happen more often, not just for power stations and religious organisations.

A bit off topic here, but:
Sadly for local residents, if the land is zoned and the land is sold (=leased in the ACT), then there is almost nothing local residents can do about whatever is built there, provided it complies with the Territory Plan and associated development assessment rules. With the new TP, there is also very little avenue for residents to object, even if they are directly affected (they have to be very directly affected to have a legitimate say, and/or be part of an incorporated association).

Brianh said :

Ozi said :

Never had any issues at all with any muslim person, EVER. It is a case of 1% giving the other 99% moderate muslims a really bad name.

I’ve met the Iman of the Monash centre, and he is lovely. Never have had any issues with their community at all, except that racist d%$!s kept breaking into their place of worship and either setting things on fire or graffitiing filth on the walls. These racist, intolerant gits are the real issue.

so what your saying is if was in front of your house you would be up all night with the firebrigade and police trying to stop thoses that are against the race or religion damaging and setting things on fire and graffitiing filth on walls, if that was me I would have my say! CLAP CLAP CLAP

oh, ok. I see what you are saying. i had to read it a couple of times first though. you object to the potential noise caused by somone setting things on fire there, or graffitiing on the walls, and the noise that the police and fire brigade would be making when they came to put the fires out / catch the miscreants.
You want to have your say about the site being there as it might possibly end up with this scenario.

Just a small question, do you have any neighbors? will you rant at them over the noise if they ever (god forbid) have a fire in the house or are broken into?

please. until you posted about this organisation’s land purchase, I bet no-one even knew they were going to be there.

Maybe, but there are two simple rules of RiotACT.

1) Normal person + Anonymity + Audience = Total dickhead
and
2) Do Not Feed the Trolls.

Brianh why didn’t you post about previous direct land sales to the Catholic education board in your area?

Sorry Skid, but it’s blatantly obvious that the bloke is a complete nutsack.

Really, what part of – “Whether being ‘anti-muslim’ is technically racist or not, it’s very obviously a case of xenophobia and bigotry” – is ambiguous in any way shape or form?

Also: yes, wot said fred, if you’re referring to demonstrating yourself to be a complete nutsack with a complete absence of reading comprehension but replete with paranoid delusions of importance, then your work here is completely done.

Children, back in your boxes if you can’t stay on topic.

What part of “Whether being ‘anti-muslim’ is technically racist or not, it’s very obviously a case of xenophobia and bigotry” do you not understand wot said fred?

How does the simple statement that ‘being anti-muslim’ is bigoted tie together “issues such as traffic volumes, land use, residential amenity and reasons for objection”?

You really are on a ‘frolic of your own’ at the moment, tying up ideas in some bizarre paranoid logic that no sane person can make out.

I’m sure that you’d get along famously with Brianh, though. His last post is a complete WTF.

wot said fred3:45 pm 15 Jul 09

Jim Jones said :

wot said fred – really, just shut up.

You have the reading comprehension skills of a hamster in a coma.

First you have this stupid comment that “it’s not racist to hate muslims, it’s anti-religious”. And now you’re banging on in a completely different direction about “objecting to traffic”.

Why don’t you come back when you’ve managed to achieve a high-school grade education.

Jim, my work here is done. Again you prove your capacity for opaqueness. Even someone with the “reading comprehension skills of a hamster” could tie together issues such as traffic volumes, land use, residential amenity and reasons for objection, without resorting to abuse.

Just as well school goes back next week for you eh?

Ozi said :

Never had any issues at all with any muslim person, EVER. It is a case of 1% giving the other 99% moderate muslims a really bad name.

I’ve met the Iman of the Monash centre, and he is lovely. Never have had any issues with their community at all, except that racist d%$!s kept breaking into their place of worship and either setting things on fire or graffitiing filth on the walls. These racist, intolerant gits are the real issue.

so what your saying is if was in front of your house you would be up all night with the firebrigade and police trying to stop thoses that are against the race or religion damaging and setting things on fire and graffitiing filth on walls, if that was me I would have my say! CLAP CLAP CLAP

Ozi said :

Never had any issues at all with any muslim person, EVER. It is a case of 1% giving the other 99% moderate muslims a really bad name.

I’ve met the Iman of the Monash centre, and he is lovely. Never have had any issues with their community at all, except that racist d%$!s kept breaking into their place of worship and either setting things on fire or graffitiing filth on the walls. These racist, intolerant gits are the real issue.

+1 The Monash centre is a very peaceful and welcome contribution to the Tuggers community.

Never had any issues at all with any muslim person, EVER. It is a case of 1% giving the other 99% moderate muslims a really bad name.

I’ve met the Iman of the Monash centre, and he is lovely. Never have had any issues with their community at all, except that racist d%$!s kept breaking into their place of worship and either setting things on fire or graffitiing filth on the walls. These racist, intolerant gits are the real issue.

p1 said :

Only a very, very stupid person would buy a house near/opposite a block of land zoned for ‘community facility use’ and then be utterly offended/upset/indignant when the land was used for a community facility!!!

I agree, however I also would (were I a nearby resident) attend to make sure that the CMC isn’t planning on building a “community” dragstrip…

Or a community gas power station!

wot said fred – really, just shut up.

You have the reading comprehension skills of a hamster in a coma.

First you have this stupid comment that “it’s not racist to hate muslims, it’s anti-religious”. And now you’re banging on in a completely different direction about “objecting to traffic”.

Why don’t you come back when you’ve managed to achieve a high-school grade education.

wot said fred said :

To be anti muslim is not racist becasue being a muslim is not a race. One cannot be racist for being anti catholic or anti presbyterian or anti jedi.

Discrimination is discrimination, be it on grounds of gender, race, age, religion or other factors. Labels like racism and sexism are just minor clairifications, not a distinction at law.

deezagood said :

Only a very, very stupid person would buy a house near/opposite a block of land zoned for ‘community facility use’ and then be utterly offended/upset/indignant when the land was used for a community facility!!!

Ha ha,
There must be a whole heap of stupid people out there then.
Remember all the complaints when the government put up those “Site Reserved for Future Development” signs.

Brianh said :

COULD SOMEONE TELL ME WHEN MUSLIM BECAME A RACIST WORD.

FACT: The word Muslim means “one who submits to God”

Last time I read anti-discrimination guidlines, the gist of it was not to include information identifying someone or some group with with a particular gender, religion or race (or etc.) when it didn’t apply to the situation at hand.

E.g.
“I’ll send my girl over” vs “I’ll send my E.A. over,” or
“In the local paper stuffed right on the back page is a notice to sell … to the CMC, Canberra Muslim Community.” vs. “In the local paper stuffed right on the back page is a notice to sell land … to the a Canberra community group.”

but hey… derka derka derka allahu derka!

Trunking symbols3:20 pm 15 Jul 09

Ye’s, let’s all submit our view’s (about the wrong use of apostrophe’s).

wot said fred3:20 pm 15 Jul 09

Jim Jones said :

wot said fred said :

Jim Jones said :

wot said fred said :

last time I looked muslim was a religion, not a race. So anti-muslim per se is not racist, it’s anti-relgionist, innit?

What’s your point?

For the hard of understanding, are you listening Jim?

To be anti muslim is not racist becasue being a muslim is not a race. One cannot be racist for being anti catholic or anti presbyterian or anti jedi. It’s the cultural or behavioural activities associated with some muslims which would seem to be of concern and that these may change the ‘face’ of a local area or community, and that apparently (still to be proven) someone has the inside run on a block of land that may face community use objections.

Now let the mud fly…….

What the hell has that got to do with anything?

Whether being ‘anti-muslim’ is technically racist or not, it’s very obviously a case of xenophobia and bigotry.

I fail to see what you’re attempting to accomplish with your cute little semantic game.

Jim as evident in a prior discussion, your capacity for displaying unprecedented powers of opaqueness never ceases to inspire. I can object to anything that seeks to change the nature of a neighbourhood and my enjoyment of the amenity – one cannot simply say that expressing that opinion is xenophobic or bigotted.

I can object to traffic volume, noise, whatever without being either. Simply because one expresses the view that I don’t want that use, or a tavern, or a nunnery or a model plane facility, in that place does not make the view bigotted or xenophobic. The view might be due to this but equally it may not. As simple as that.

Only a very, very stupid person would buy a house near/opposite a block of land zoned for ‘community facility use’ and then be utterly offended/upset/indignant when the land was used for a community facility!!!

I agree, however I also would (were I a nearby resident) attend to make sure that the CMC isn’t planning on building a “community” dragstrip…

Skidbladnir said :

ACTMAPI says its presently unleased territory land on a community facility use zone.
(Check it yourself http://www.actmapi.act.gov.au/ and put it into either Territory Plan – Land Use Zones mode or Land Custodianship mode)

Schools\mosques\churches all fall into community facility use.

\

Only a very, very stupid person would buy a house near/opposite a block of land zoned for ‘community facility use’ and then be utterly offended/upset/indignant when the land was used for a community facility!!!

ACTMAPI says its presently unleased territory land on a community facility use zone.
(Check it yourself http://www.actmapi.act.gov.au/ and put it into either Territory Plan – Land Use Zones mode or Land Custodianship mode)

Schools\mosques\churches all fall into community facility use.

Block 17 section 73 doesn’t really look that big for a school, but co-located with similar services would appear to make sense. Someone mentioned earlier that other schools have been rejected for the same site, but I imagine that some religious schools are still more of a niche service then some others, and therefore more justifiable, especially if replacing a temp facility somewhere else (as was also suggested earlier).

if there was some massive structure about to be built across the road from my house I’d want to know about it, regardless of the purpose of the building. I’m sure most of you would too.

That bit of land looks like a dump – about time it was used for something.

I’m guessing that the block of land must be zoned for whatever it will be used for (at least I hope so, unless the government trying that whole sneaky ‘change the zoning without consultation thing’), so any buyers in the nearby area (especially directly opposite the site) surely would have done their research prior to purchasing. I know that I would NEVER buy a home opposite vacant land without checking the zoning of that land. So – if it is to be used for a church, school or community building (in accordance with the zoning), the owners will have a hard time complaining about traffic, speeding rules, through-traffic etc… when they knew this was coming all along.

So – I suspect that it is, indeed,the ‘Muslim factor’, rather than any genuine concerns about the proposed facility that has invoked this post. Which makes me very sad.

wot said fred said :

Jim Jones said :

wot said fred said :

last time I looked muslim was a religion, not a race. So anti-muslim per se is not racist, it’s anti-relgionist, innit?

What’s your point?

For the hard of understanding, are you listening Jim?

To be anti muslim is not racist becasue being a muslim is not a race. One cannot be racist for being anti catholic or anti presbyterian or anti jedi. It’s the cultural or behavioural activities associated with some muslims which would seem to be of concern and that these may change the ‘face’ of a local area or community, and that apparently (still to be proven) someone has the inside run on a block of land that may face community use objections.

Now let the mud fly…….

What the hell has that got to do with anything?

Whether being ‘anti-muslim’ is technically racist or not, it’s very obviously a case of xenophobia and bigotry.

I fail to see what you’re attempting to accomplish with your cute little semantic game.

Morgan said :

tut tut tut, those muslims I’m so sick of them coming to this country and taking our jobs and stealing our women….

not stealing our women; just making them wear tents… whre’s virginia when you need her? ; )

did anyone go to her commandment, err lecture, today? what sort of reception did she get? did she make any sense?

wot said fred2:28 pm 15 Jul 09

Jim Jones said :

wot said fred said :

last time I looked muslim was a religion, not a race. So anti-muslim per se is not racist, it’s anti-relgionist, innit?

What’s your point?

For the hard of understanding, are you listening Jim?

To be anti muslim is not racist becasue being a muslim is not a race. One cannot be racist for being anti catholic or anti presbyterian or anti jedi. It’s the cultural or behavioural activities associated with some muslims which would seem to be of concern and that these may change the ‘face’ of a local area or community, and that apparently (still to be proven) someone has the inside run on a block of land that may face community use objections.

Now let the mud fly…….

Brianh, taking your assurances of verbatim on face value, thank you for bringing it to our attention. You are quite helpful.

Skidbladnir said :

Its currently just greenspace next to a car park, an existing childcare centre, Nicholls pre-school, Gold Creek Primary School, and some shops.
ie: it currently contributes nothing to the blighted and culturally deficient cityscape that is the southern edge of Gungahlin.

Have some basic ideas:
So they’re intending to lease a community zoned patch of what is currently unleased land, use it for whatever purpose, improve the land, bring new activity into the community and pay their own way in terms of rates & resources?

Increased use of the land = More passing traffic for the businesses nearby = Greater chance of trade = More money for businesses = richer businesses, or more businesses.
Greater number of children in the area (if its a school) = more friends\social contact and learning for the existing children.
If it becomes a mosque\Islamic Centre, like the already existing CIC in Monash being near a Christian centre and a Catholic school, it just inflicts greater social contact for all groups (and hopefully, more tolerance of eachother through shared experience).
If in the end it puts strain on the current traffic or parking arrangements that the current facilities can’t deal with, ACT Government can probably start charging for parking to a) decrease demand and b) use the money they get to top up the income from rates to build better community facilities.

Please show me how this could be construed as a net loss, if you’re actually acting with a legitimate community interest.

The paid parking has not hit gungahlin as yet but with all the land sales and development in and around gungahlin it would be on the books.

RandomGit said :

Personally I am disgusted that the CMC is getting some sort of straight land buying arrangement without other interested parties being able to have a bid. The idea of a bunch of hairy, acoustic loving, late night revelling hippie dole bludgers having the resources they need to keep the neighbours awake with their muscial, alchohol fuelled, orgies of symphony (not to mention all the garden watering with non potable water) is one that should be stamped out by talkback radio listeners everywhere.

….oopps, sorry, wrong CMC.

LOL!

good one RandomGit.

Its currently just greenspace next to a car park, an existing childcare centre, Nicholls pre-school, Gold Creek Primary School, and some shops.
ie: it currently contributes nothing to the blighted and culturally deficient cityscape that is the southern edge of Gungahlin.

Have some basic ideas:
So they’re intending to lease a community zoned patch of what is currently unleased land, use it for whatever purpose, improve the land, bring new activity into the community and pay their own way in terms of rates & resources?

Increased use of the land = More passing traffic for the businesses nearby = Greater chance of trade = More money for businesses = richer businesses, or more businesses.
Greater number of children in the area (if its a school) = more friends\social contact and learning for the existing children.
If it becomes a mosque\Islamic Centre, like the already existing CIC in Monash being near a Christian centre and a Catholic school, it just inflicts greater social contact for all groups (and hopefully, more tolerance of eachother through shared experience).
If in the end it puts strain on the current traffic or parking arrangements that the current facilities can’t deal with, ACT Government can probably start charging for parking to a) decrease demand and b) use the money they get to top up the income from rates to build better community facilities.

Please show me how this could be construed as a net loss, if you’re actually acting with a legitimate community interest.

jennybel75 said :

Brianh – why then, if it’s not a race thing, mention the word “Muslim” in your post at all? You could have simply said there was a community meeting to discuss the sale of the land and left it at that.

Colour me suspicious that you’re trolling for the type of reaction that happened in Camden.

THE ADVERTISMENT IN THE PAPER USED THE WORD MUSLIM, THE CMC IS THE CANBERRA MUSLIM COMMUNITY AND ALSO IS IN THE ADD AND JUST HAPPENS TO BE WHO WILL BE AT THE SESSION. COULD SOMEONE TELL ME WHEN MUSLIM BECAME A RACIST WORD.

FACT: The word Muslim means “one who submits to God”

I’m not Muslim. Then again I’m not a screen printer either. Whats happening to my perfect world? Rabble Rabble rabble…

Morgan said :

tut tut tut, those muslims I’m so sick of them coming to this country and taking our jobs and stealing our women….

TERK ER JERBS!!!

wot said fred said :

last time I looked muslim was a religion, not a race. So anti-muslim per se is not racist, it’s anti-relgionist, innit?

What’s your point?

tut tut tut, those muslims I’m so sick of them coming to this country and taking our jobs and stealing our women….

wot said fred2:00 pm 15 Jul 09

last time I looked muslim was a religion, not a race. So anti-muslim per se is not racist, it’s anti-relgionist, innit?

Personally I am disgusted that the CMC is getting some sort of straight land buying arrangement without other interested parties being able to have a bid. The idea of a bunch of hairy, acoustic loving, late night revelling hippie dole bludgers having the resources they need to keep the neighbours awake with their muscial, alchohol fuelled, orgies of symphony (not to mention all the garden watering with non potable water) is one that should be stamped out by talkback radio listeners everywhere.

….oopps, sorry, wrong CMC.

Brianh – why then, if it’s not a race thing, mention the word “Muslim” in your post at all? You could have simply said there was a community meeting to discuss the sale of the land and left it at that.

Colour me suspicious that you’re trolling for the type of reaction that happened in Camden.

If it’s a Muslim school I can answer some of those questions for you now,

Brianh said :

I want to know if it is a school or Mosque will they extended the 40kmh zones, will the buses increase.

If it’s a school then it’s a good bet they will slow traffic down to 40km/h, same as any other school. Also around school days yes you’ll get more busses during the morning before 9am, and again around 3pm.

If it’s a Mosque, the only time you’ll have a problem with massive amounts of cars in the area is Friday lunchtime (Friday Prayers) This is however at a time when most other people are at work, and thus wouldn’t notice the increase of traffic.

Also it was interpreted as racist as you said the word Muslim in a racial overtone, could you honestly say you would have came on the riot-act advertising it and done a door knock if it had been a “nice and normal” christian church or school?

I don’t think so chewy.

I’ve seen these same old arguments again and again in other areas, all around Australia. Some are put more eloquently, some less so, but a spade is still a spade.

It was the immediate kneejerk reaction to Muslims buying land on these grounds, without actually knowing anything about the facility or the plans that I found to be racist.

Like I said… I see this crap almost every day.

****That would be why Im going to the session and why people that are interested to know should go that way the facility or the plans will be known and to how this would advantage or disadvantage the community****

BrianH is not being racist. He just wants to get the word out to everyone who lives around there. About the fact that the Muslims are buying some land there. Getting the word out is all. About the Muslims buying the land. Not many people know what’s going on about the Muslims buying this land so there will be a public information session. At the community centre. it’s just the community coming together so people know what’s going on about the Muslims buying land.

(Can you hear the dog whistle? Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee)

haha.
Some people have a big jump back from conclusions to make.

AHHHHH! o.k, The department of land and development and the Canberra Muslim Community are the ones that have arranged the information session, why when the word “Muslim” is mentioned it is a race thing. If you think it is a race issue then maybe the session is not for you. I want to know if it is a school or Mosque will they extended the 40kmh zones, will the buses increase, what are the parking arrangements, things you ask when you live across the road or near by.

Come and express your view’s.

[ED – Does anyone get upset when these deals are done for other groups?]

I get upset when people can’t use apostrophies properly.

And, OMG!!11!! They’re going to set up a terrorist training camp or something are they? Would you be concerned if it were a Christian group or a charity etc, etc? Traffic and parking issues huh? Sounds like a flimsy excuse to me.

Chewy… I work in an area where I have to read this thinly veiled anti-Muslim racism crap on a daily basis.

Since the Camden protests in Sydney, ‘traffic & parking issues’ have become the popular catchcry used by nationalists and Nazis and just racists in general around Australia every single time a muslim or African group wants to establish a school or like facility.

It’s become the ‘safe’ way of expressing racist views or trying to deny these minorities the same facilities that other groups already have. Thus my quote about people being in the ‘I’m not a racist… but…’ group.

I see this all the time.

Not only that… but I noted how quickly BrianH qualified his arguments on the basis of traffic and parking without seeing even a plan, or finding out how large the facility will actually be or how many people it will cater for.

It was the immediate kneejerk reaction to Muslims buying land on these grounds, without actually knowing anything about the facility or the plans that I found to be racist.

Like I said… I see this crap almost every day.

Brianh, why did you do a door knock? What purpose could that have served?

If CMC are planning to build a school, or a mosque, or any other building they will need to go through the normal planning process which includes providing notice at the site which then invites the general public to make comment on the proposed development. This is the same process that any other religion (or business or individual) has to go through for any development outside a standard house.

But considering this is the riot-act I’ll go grab my pitchfork and torch, and we’ll go show the CMC who’s boss. That’s what you want right?

Timberwolf651:17 pm 15 Jul 09

We will never learn.

If I’m correct, this is probably land for a permanent site for the Muslim school currently operating at the old Watson High School by the CMC. If that’s the case I see no probelm at all. In fact whatver use the CMC has in mind would have my support. It’s the same process that other community organisations, including other non government schools, go through in gaining acess to land.

As to a “meeting to say yes or no”, what a rediculous idea.

Wow,
not once in the OP did Brianh mention he disliked Muslims or objected to any land sale. All the OP says is that few people in the neighbourhood have any idea what is going on at the site and they want to find out.

But hey i can read between the lines and i’ve got a pitchfork too, lets get him.
RACIST, RACIST, RACIST.

I wonder how many people who dispute this are members of the F-Off Were (sic) full brigade ?

Makes me wanna do a short run of shirts that just say “F##k On, We’re Empty”

Or Non “Xenophobe Aussie Pride”

Brianh said :

I can say for me personally I’m not for it on a traffic and parking side of things, but! the point of this post was to address the fact that it may happen, I did a quick door knock last night and people who live directly across the road didn’t even know. Doesn’t matter what gets put on the land the public should have a right to know and go to the meeting and say yes or no

Contact ACTPLA (details to do so contained within what you just read), have your say, go have a beer and win a meat tray at the local pub.

Aw gee… Muslims buying land for a school. What a travesty.

There seems to be a few people here from the school of ‘I’m not a racist… but….’

You guys should feel welcome to move to a whites only gated community and continue inbreeding.

You make me sick.

I can say for me personally I’m not for it on a traffic and parking side of things, but! the point of this post was to address the fact that it may happen, I did a quick door knock last night and people who live directly across the road didn’t even know. Doesn’t matter what gets put on the land the public should have a right to know and go to the meeting and say yes or no

astrojax said :

why not ‘spread the word’ too about sales of land to people who might want to build a house and rasie a family, so more people infesting the planet. shame on them.

what is your point – why is a muslim purchaser an issue? are you virginia hausseger in drag?

sounds like it.

maybe the canberra muslim community want a place where they can meet with the rest of the canberra community and allow people to be able to interact in a friendly environment?

prior to 911, wasn’t the world a nicer place for muslims and other religious groups?

looks like those days are gone.

interested to see what the site will be used for. not to go and protest against it, though.

Virginia, are you seeing what a ban can do?

Blocks of land in community precincts get sold to church groups, charities and the like ALL THE TIME.

I don’t like the sound of where this is heading…

So long as this process is exactly the same as the process of any other community organisation accessing land, what exactly is the issue? Unless they put “terrorist training camp” on the land application. Then I give them points for high comedy.

Maybe the OP was misread, I didn’t see ‘school’ in that post.

However, if there is to be a school there it will have to follow specific guidelines showing ability to support itself, sustainability (new criteria) and that it will not take numbers away from the existing schools within the same area.

Those reasons above are why several schools (irrespective of denomination or cultural background) were denied several years ago.

Holden Caulfield said :

Brianh, what is the issue here? Did you take a similar course of action when the Catholic primary school went in a few blocks down the road? I could go on…

*He says whilst draped in an Australian Flag burning the bible, his beard whistling in the wind, whilst his burka clad wife sings psalms from the Quran*

PickedANickname12:39 pm 15 Jul 09

I wonder what kind of voice Brianh wants to hear. I hope it not a xenophobic bigoted voice he is after.

Holden Caulfield12:38 pm 15 Jul 09

Brianh, what is the issue here? Did you take a similar course of action when the Catholic primary school went in a few blocks down the road? I could go on…

Thoroughly Smashed12:33 pm 15 Jul 09

Would it be presumptuous of me to read deep into the wording of this article and draw the obvious conclusion?

I cannot wait to spread my “view’s”!

fnaah said :

My view is that people who can’t use an apostrophe correctly have no business opposing the sale of land to anyone who (presumably) wants to use it as a site for a school, or possibly ESL resource centre.

+ 1

Dante said :

If this becomes a redo of Camden, I’m leaving Canberra.

Book that removals van my friend. Things are gonna get ugly

why not ‘spread the word’ too about sales of land to people who might want to build a house and rasie a family, so more people infesting the planet. shame on them.

what is your point – why is a muslim purchaser an issue? are you virginia hausseger in drag?

If this becomes a redo of Camden, I’m leaving Canberra.

My view is that people who can’t use an apostrophe correctly have no business opposing the sale of land to anyone who (presumably) wants to use it as a site for a school, or possibly ESL resource centre.

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