2 April 2009

Public school enrolments buck the trends?

| johnboy
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[First filed: April 01, 2009 @ 15:08]

Andrew Barr is thrilled to announce that for the first time in a decade there are more children enrolled in public schools than the year before:

    “This increase in enrolments shows that the ACT Government’s record investment in public education is paying dividends,” Mr Barr said. “This is a direct result of the actions this Government took back in 2006 to invest $350 million into upgrading every public school and building new state-of-the-art schools, where they are most needed in Belconnen, Gungahlin and Tuggeranong.”

Everything to do with the public’s love of ACT Government education policies?

Nothing to do with parents worried about taking on the cost of private education at this time?

UPDATED: A day later Steve Doszpot appears to be taking his talking points from our commenters in his media release:

    “Mr Barr should realise that children’s education is not for his political point scoring.

    “In broad term the census figures indicate only a very small increase in public school enrolments, a total increase of 0.001%.

    “Mr Barr cannot seriously claim this result as a success when figures affectively remaining stagnant.

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One good thing about Deakin is they do not harp on at the kids about uniforms all the time. It is ridiculous when kids are pulled up for having a stripe on their track pants! Really, they should pick their battles – kids used to go to school in bare feet! Bottom line – they are there to get an education.

miz said :

Deezagood – wondering what your issue with chisholm high is? McKillop has a terrible rep and is basically seen as a so-so public school with uniforms and private fees.

My son went to melrose and I was not happy. My other two children are at chisholm (one in year 10 and one in year 8) and I have been very happy with the way things are going. There is a huge contrast in the communication – I can compare as noth my eldest and youngest have both done some truanting, and Chisholm were onto it immediately while Melrose took six months to advise me that there were issues.

There are major advantages in having the kids at a local school, from friendship groups to the fact that it is probably walking distance, making travel a non-issue on any level (money, safety, sillybuggers).

quote]

It is refreshing to hear some positive feedback about Chisholm High – because as relative newcomers to Canberra/Tuggeranong, we have only heard negative reports from parents in the area (primarily: bullying not handled properly, ‘rough’ kids etc..). I intend to go to all of the open days anyway and see what each school has to offer – but it was great hearing an alternative perspective. I was actually looking at Deakin, as I have heard it is a good school and a lot of the kids from our area seem to go there.

Mr Barr. release the Functional review already for goodness’ sake.

Deezagood – wondering what your issue with chisholm high is? McKillop has a terrible rep and is basically seen as a so-so public school with uniforms and private fees. My son went to melrose and I was not happy. My other two children are at chisholm (one in year 10 and one in year 8) and I have been very happy with the way things are going. There is a huge contrast in the communication – I can compare as noth my eldest and youngest have both done some truanting, and Chisholm were onto it immediately while Melrose took six months to advise me that there were issues.

There are major advantages in having the kids at a local school, from friendship groups to the fact that it is probably walking distance, making travel a non-issue on any level (money, safety, sillybuggers).

One small caveat though -they (ie the Dept) are currently trying to unpick the excellent subschool system that has served my children well and makes pastoral care second to none. Also, the new Principal is a total no-show, she is always at the junior campus and there is quite a lot of negative feedback about her from students and staff (I know some personally so they have not done anything unethical). However essentially the school is great, while there are the occasional dramas as there are in every school, I have to say I am really happy.

“Mr Barr cannot seriously claim this result as a success when figures affectively [sic] remaining stagnant.”

It’s a dead giveaway when they copy our spelling mistakes too!

I thought we had an automatic right to a spot in the closest govvie school to our house. They can’t just say no can they?

grunge_hippy9:41 pm 02 Apr 09

i live in a suburb with the new early childhood schools. I will send my daughter there until year 2 because it is close, but i know come primary school age, the closest primary school is full, we’re out of area for the next best and there is no way I am sending her to the other closest school. Luckily I am a teacher so its a case of who you know, and I should be able to get her in to the school of my choice close to home. either that or i will bring her to my school. Something i want to avoid, but if i need to, thats what i’ll do. The days of a school in every suburb is over…. but it is the way they did it that had no rhyme or reason. They closed a school like Flynn with a healthy growing population of about 200+, but kept narrabundah open (for a bit at least) with a population of 60. Total balls up.

and like someone said, it wasnt mr barrs fault… he was the fall guy!

just spin from the gov’.

they only closed all the suburban primary schools so they could get access to the land. leaving us with only the economy sized ‘super schools’, mixing primary and secondary students all together.

I’m sure the super schools will also be the dumping ground for students to difficult for other schools.

you should see how cramped the kingsford smith super school is, all squashed in. Tiny fenced-in playing field. nothing like our schools used to be.

Ian said :

If whoever wrote this is a product of the ACT public school system, they are not a good advertisment for it.

Who knows? It is just as likely that they are a product of the non-government sector given that they work for Deszpot and Canberra has the highest rate of participation in the non-government education sector.

Just another sly way to deride and undermine the public education system.

sepi said :

Yes. ‘Affectively’ is a new kind of awful.

Surely the 50 new students are due to population increase?

I actually think in some areas they will be struggling to find places for all the students in about 3-4 years. There is a huge baby boom going on in the inner north right now, and not a lot of spare capacity in the existing primary schools as I understand it.

They probably did have to shut some schools, but many were quite well supported and not falling apart. I think they went too far – and even they obvisouly have reservations about their decision making process. If they felt confident about it, they would have no qualms about releasing their 2020 report.

the report is out there, on the act gov website. it just isn’t easy to find. what is even harder, is the original demographic doco used to correlate the school closures.

the act gov site links to an abs page that doesn’t exist…

Yes. ‘Affectively’ is a new kind of awful.

Surely the 50 new students are due to population increase?

I actually think in some areas they will be struggling to find places for all the students in about 3-4 years. There is a huge baby boom going on in the inner north right now, and not a lot of spare capacity in the existing primary schools as I understand it.

They probably did have to shut some schools, but many were quite well supported and not falling apart. I think they went too far – and even they obvisouly have reservations about their decision making process. If they felt confident about it, they would have no qualms about releasing their 2020 report.

#21 @Skidbladnir – not only were his maths wrong, there are problems with grammar and spelling too.

Mr Barr cannot seriously claim this result as a success when figures affectively remaining stagnant.

If whoever wrote this is a product of the ACT public school system, they are not a good advertisment for it.

MrMagoo said :

Community needs change, population demographics move and re-shape themselves. Can we please get over the school closures, it’s done and dusted and no matter what Zed and his merry band might promise, they couldn’t and won’t re-open closed school sites.

Well said. People would be better off getting in and supporting the new school their kids are attending. Stopping the erosion of public education is something to be applauded and I hope it becomes a positive clearly defined trend.

someoneincanb2:00 pm 02 Apr 09

Maybe the Live in Canberra campaign had a particularly good year?

Did Andrew Barr check the 50 additional bodies? Maybe they are just zombies?

MrMagoo said :

Can I just say that the general viewpoint here on this topic has been really quite negative. As a parent and member of a school P&C any increase in public school numbers is significant. It also seems to me that EVERYONE has forgotten that the previous Liberal Government had very similar plans for school rationalisation but because this Government chose to actually do it and not just run it up the flag pole they have been lambasted for it. There are of course points of view for and against school closures, however, if the buildings are unsafe, dangerous or inadequate, the population of a suburb not supporting a school site, then please show me the cost benefit analysis of either keeping the4 site operating as a school or spending significant amount of money repairing it.

In the ACT we are blessed by a very strong school system, something for which many people take for granted. It is neither rational nor prudent to keep a school operating on emotion and a whim. Community needs change, population demographics move and re-shape themselves. Can we please get over the school closures, it’s done and dusted and no matter what Zed and his merry band might promise, they couldn’t and won’t re-open closed school sites.

another point to made about the school restructure plan, towards 2020, is that Andrew Barr isn’t the architect, he is the fallout guy. Katie dreamt up this pearl, then changed portfolios…

wonder when ACT health will be having a restructure and closing down health centres?

she will need to palm off the fallout yet again.

Skidbladnir said :

RE: Update thanks to Doszpot’s media release

Doszpot’s numbers are wrong.
I’m guessing he forgot to convert a product into a percentage, but somebody should probably fact check his media releases before sending.
Admittedly, mine were slightly off originally, but I’m not issuing media releases on behalf of a Party.

In broad term the census figures indicate only a very small increase in public school enrolments, a total increase of 0.001%…

On 2009 student numbers of 38280, with an increase of 50 on 2008 numbers (38230 by inference), 2009 total student numbers are up 0.13% (50/38230 * 100) on 2008.

A 0.0013% increase on 2008’s number (0.001 /100 * 32830) represents only half of a child.
A 50 student increase being a 0.0013% increase requires a student population shy of 4 million students.

skid, you never cease to amaze me.

even given the baby bonus has refuelled breeding, I don’t think that we will be hitting 4m any time soon…

Can I just say that the general viewpoint here on this topic has been really quite negative. As a parent and member of a school P&C any increase in public school numbers is significant. It also seems to me that EVERYONE has forgotten that the previous Liberal Government had very similar plans for school rationalisation but because this Government chose to actually do it and not just run it up the flag pole they have been lambasted for it. There are of course points of view for and against school closures, however, if the buildings are unsafe, dangerous or inadequate, the population of a suburb not supporting a school site, then please show me the cost benefit analysis of either keeping the4 site operating as a school or spending significant amount of money repairing it.

In the ACT we are blessed by a very strong school system, something for which many people take for granted. It is neither rational nor prudent to keep a school operating on emotion and a whim. Community needs change, population demographics move and re-shape themselves. Can we please get over the school closures, it’s done and dusted and no matter what Zed and his merry band might promise, they couldn’t and won’t re-open closed school sites.

Cut Steve some slack, he had to get his Media Release out before Jeremy Hanson knew someone else had control of it.

RE: Update thanks to Doszpot’s media release

Doszpot’s numbers are wrong.
I’m guessing he forgot to convert a product into a percentage, but somebody should probably fact check his media releases before sending.
Admittedly, mine were slightly off originally, but I’m not issuing media releases on behalf of a Party.

In broad term the census figures indicate only a very small increase in public school enrolments, a total increase of 0.001%…

On 2009 student numbers of 38280, with an increase of 50 on 2008 numbers (38230 by inference), 2009 total student numbers are up 0.13% (50/38230 * 100) on 2008.

A 0.0013% increase on 2008’s number (0.001 /100 * 32830) represents only half of a child.
A 50 student increase being a 0.0013% increase requires a student population shy of 4 million students.

We moved our kids out of the local Catholic school to the local State primary and have never looked back. Numerous reasons (some detailed above), but primarily we felt that the local school offered a similar standard of education without the attached fees – so why not? I also like the smaller class sizes in most public primary schools. High School presents quite a dilemma though, as our ‘local’ is Chisholm high. I somehow think we’ll be paying the big bucks for private (NOT Catholic though).

The Minister is easily excited if this is a big deal. I doubt 50 is statistically significant, so the change YTY is just noise.

Steady Eddie said :

Perhaps it has something to do with parents not wanting to have their kids molested while at school. “Independent” = Catholic = Child Molesters.

Classic. I have heard there are a number of teachers booted out of the public system for inappropriate behavoiur towards the kids, and sure enough they pick up jobs in private schools. Cheap unwanted teacher for sale.

Another problem with private education is that drug dealers know that there is more money in private schools so they target private kids more than the public school kids. Of course you don’t hear about it in the media because the schools want to keep it quiet and the parents are too embarrased. But you get a group of teachers (public and private) together at the pub and you will hear all about it.

bd84 said :

I hardly think a 50 kid rise on last year is too much to be chirping at, that would work out to be about 1 child per school in Canberra? Given that the measure is only taken once a year, it’s not likely to be accurate as children come, go and change throughout the year.

It’s not much of a rise, and it’s not a trend yet. And yet, it is still true that ACT publics schools are pretty good. We’ve moved our children to a public school for three reasons:
1) value for money; our private school was not able to provide a significant improvement on the public option.
2) technology; our children have greater access to computers and smart boards at the local public school.
3) location; with a child starting pre-school, and the private school not offering a pre-school, we would have been walking one child ten minutes in one direction, and the other five minutes in the opposite direction.

So, yes, the quality had something to do with our decision, but a change of 50 students across the ACT is nothing.

And when our kids hit High School, we’ll have another dilemma; I won’t be allowing my kids to go to a private or a public secondary school unless they can fix the core systemic problems, and that won’t be happening in the next six years…

I saw the plans for the new Kambah School the other day. By the looks of it, it’s a remake of Kingford Smith. Nothing new there.

I wonder if Mr. Barr will be equally as happy when we get the results of the July/August census.

Nemo said :

Quote from Peterh “now, how many schools are to be left in kambah?

1. “

I live in a suburb of 6000 people, most of whom are young families. Our closest high school is 4 suburbs away. My son’s school (and that of all high school students in our street) is more than 11km away.

Dont be too disappointed with only having 1 school in your suburb…

nemo, we have one school that hasn’t even been built yet. kambah high is shut, and now they are closing the primary schools. kambah is the biggest suburb in the ACT, with 16,000 residents in 2001 – no idea how many now, but there are quite a few young families. We know of 5 families that have twins like us, and a couple with kids of school age like us. the twins will be the problem, as we don’t want to split them up. Barr didn’t even take the time to use current demographics, the info he obtained for this grand plan was taken in 2001. not very clever when you consider that 2005 was heralded as the year of the largest number of births in canberra…

I hardly think a 50 kid rise on last year is too much to be chirping at, that would work out to be about 1 child per school in Canberra? Given that the measure is only taken once a year, it’s not likely to be accurate as children come, go and change throughout the year.

Maybe it’s got something to do with ACT public schools (and especially the colleges) generally being rather good?

Dear Mr Barr

There are more children enrolled in public schools than the year before because: parents are worried about their jobs in today’s unsteady financial climate (you twit) hence they would rather send their kids to a public school and save some dollars. When it’s all over, Public schools will have low enrolments once again and you will be able to shut a few more down.

Regards

Goose (this should be your name)

Quote from Peterh “now, how many schools are to be left in kambah?

1. “

I live in a suburb of 6000 people, most of whom are young families. Our closest high school is 4 suburbs away. My son’s school (and that of all high school students in our street) is more than 11km away.

Dont be too disappointed with only having 1 school in your suburb…

Its not just the baby bonus (or because of the baby bonus). Its the kids of the baby boomers having kids. We (I am one of them) are all now in the 25 – 40 age range. 2007 had the highest ever number of births – just pipping the previous record from 1971. With all those 1971 parents now 37 or 38 and, on average, having babies around 30 or 31 (whatever the figure is) – well, no surprise that there are now more kids of school age. And its only going to get worse, the next 10 years is going to be another ‘bulge’ generation. (its arguable the boom over the last 10 years has also increased both the ability and willingness of people to have children)

Also keep in mind that the private schools haven’t increased their capacity at the same rate. So even if parents wanted to send their kids to private schools, they just can’t get in (try getting your kid into Radford or Grammar or Eddies – pretty much impossible unless you have priority because a parent went to the school). Result – they go to public schools (and sit on a waiting list).

What Barr really needs to show, to justify his claim, is a DECREASE in private school enrolments.

regularbrowse5:20 pm 01 Apr 09

2009 was a record year for enrolments at ACT pre-schools (the baby bonus kids of 2004-05 are growing)

Is it possible the sizeable pre-school figures (of 4 year olds) are creating this growth trend?

The question will be whether all those pre-school kids continue their education at a local public primary schools and eventually high schools. Then we will find out whether it is a trend.

Steady Eddie5:14 pm 01 Apr 09

Perhaps it has something to do with parents not wanting to have their kids molested while at school. “Independent” = Catholic = Child Molesters.

…growth in the number of enrolments for the first time in 10 years…
1) One instance is not a trend.
But he anyway claims that an increase of 50 persons (ie: a 0.14% increase on last year) after a decade long slide, is a statistically significant thing and not just a one-off bump.

This is a direct result of the actions this Government took back in 2006 to invest $350 million into upgrading every public school…
2) Correlation is not causation.
But if his claim is to be believed, this blip is apparently at a cost of seven million dollars per child.

by the way, the publication is here:
http://www.det.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/54278/ACT_School_Census_Publication_February_2009.pdf

from the “Towards 2020” document…
“Tuggeranong Region
Kambah High School will close at the end of 2007 and a new P-10 school will be constructed on the site to open in January 2011. As part of this project, consultation will occur on the closure of Urambi Primary School from December 2010. Mt Neighbour Primary School will close at the end of 2006 and Mt Neighbour Preschool will be retained and amalgamate as an annexe of Urambi P-6 school from 2008. Village Creek Primary School will close at the end of 2007 and Village Creek Preschool will be retained as an annexe of Taylor P-6 School until the new P-10 school opens.”

now, how many schools are to be left in kambah?

1.

The super school, when it is built, will be expected to provide education to all the residents of Kambah.

I chose kambah as I live there. It is also the largest suburb, and I would bet that there are far more kids than the new P-10 school will be able to accommodate… when it is ready in 2011. i would love to see the demographics for the numbers of children of school age in the feeder for this school. The government has made a big mistake. birth rates follow peaks and troughs, the same as any other demographic in canberra. closing schools won’t bring in new residents, it will drive them out to bordering areas like queanbeyan and jerra.

definitely a big dividend, mr barr?

Sum achievement!

Hmmm. 50 more than last year, coming on the back of $350 million. Where’s my calculator?

I’m very excited about this development. I can see the benefits not just for me, not just for my future children, but for the entire community. Furthermore, the benefits far outweigh the opportunity cost.

I shall now commence a dance of appropriate vigor.

Clown Killer3:38 pm 01 Apr 09

So by logical extension, when economic times get better and more people start enrolling their kids in private schools again that too will be a direct result of the actions this Government

You can’t have it both ways buddy.

he is thrilled, is he? thanks very much mr barr, for closing down some schools that were close to my house. now we need to find a school that can fit us in. (several are overpopulated after the closures)

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