8 November 2011

Quality road resurfacing in Gordon.

| GordonResidential
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claire dennis avenue

Claire Dennis Ave in Gordon was the proud recipient of this high quality work, today 7 November 2011.

A sample of the work, proudly undertaken by a contractor engaged by the ACT Government. Stones are totally detaching from the pavement in less than half a day.

http://photobucket.com/claire-dennis-road

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My now retired uncle used to work for Main Roads in Queensland and explained the shiny patches some of the posters are referring to is generally not from the gravel in the bitumen seal being worn away, but being sunk into the tar under it.

As the bitumen heats up the tar used becomes soft, and if there’s already a few layers under it, the gravel used in the bitumen starts to sink into the tar, from being pushed down by passing vehicles.

The bitumen (chip seal) is used on the majority of Australian roads, and as much as I prefer the asphalt surface, it’s just a fact of life that budgets don’t always stretch to have asphalt re-laid when roads wear, crack or lose their traction properties. And no I don’t work for the government or it’s contractors.

Agree with Miss Sookie. Part of my street was ‘re-sealed’ (scoff) with this rubbish recently, for no apparent reason, and to my complete annoyance. I wish they would do a pothole audit instead.

However, the roads people have done a nice smooth patch job on Erindale Drive and the Isabella Drive roundabout. I guess those were done with the real deal, not just tossing a few stones about.

GordonResidential7:12 pm 03 Dec 11

bearlikesbeer said :

This form of resurfacing not only leaves the gutters full of stones that are never properly cleaned up, it also seems to spread a lot of tar around compared to the older method.

For many days after my street was last resurfaced, car tyres were still picking up tar from the roads, resulting in stains to concrete and paved driveways. The neighbours and I had to make dozens of calls to get the contractor out to inspect the road, and have a go at cleaning the marks from our driveways with chemicals and high pressure hoses.

We all had a whinge to the contractor about the poor quality of the surface, and how tight the ACT govt is. The contractor told us this method was preferred by the govt because it’s a more environmentally friendly method than the traditional “hot mix”. No idea whether that’s really true.

Interesting. Thanks.

GordonResidential7:10 pm 03 Dec 11

JC said :

enrique said :

Welcome to road re-surfacing ACT style!

This method has been used here in Canberra for many years, presumbably due to its ‘cost effective’ properties. In other words – it’s cheap – unfortunately that word is usually paired with ‘nasty’ and on these types of road jobs that is certainly the case.

You may still get another layer of tar sprayed on top if you’re lucky but it’s doubtful. Seen many of these type of jobs over the years to suspect you’ll be stuck with dodgy loose gravel for a few weeks/months until the local traffic tyres roll it in and/or the street sweepers clean up the leftovers.

Self-government, fantastic! There was once a time when the hot mix roads of Canberra were the envy of the nation – alas, never again.

Hate to burst your bubble pettal, but chip sealing was used in Canberra well before self government. I recall the road where I lived in Macgregor got sealed when I was in primary school, so before 1984. And never is another layer sprayed on top. The whole idea is tar is sprayed to seal the road and then the chips are added to give grip to the surface. Without the chips the road would be slippery.

As to those complaining about it, may I ask what you want to give up to be able to afford the luxury of resurfacing with hot mix? I beleive the cost of chip is about 1/3rd the cost of a hotmix reseal.

Also the reason why this method is used here in Canberra (and other rural cities) more than say Sydney is our traffic volumes are so low that even after 10 years the surface is still generally good, however the surface is opening up and becomes slightly porus. So they spray the tar to seal the old surface and chip for grip. In places like Sydney the traffic, heavy vehicles in particular will destroy the road after 10 years, so of course the only way to fix is to rip it up and add hot mix.

A good analogy is a timber deck. When the paint starts to flake do you repair and repaint or replace the whole lot? I know most, depending upon how damaged the wood is would repaint, same too with the roads.

Your point?

Don’t work for gummint, do you?

Lots of airmchair expertise there. And obvious points. Cheap repair? Yes. Worth it in the long run?

Let we residents decide.

GordonResidential7:06 pm 03 Dec 11

M0les said :

I can’t see anything wrong in the picure, this resurfacing is just not yet complete: The drains are still plugged to prevent the loose gravel from running-off. At some time in the future, when the most gravel has embedded in the underlying tar, the loose surface will be removed. I’ve seen this many times before and the end-result’s quite workable and doesn’t throw-up many stones.

However I _would_ be worried if there are no warning signs of a loose surface and if it carries-on for too long.

Definitely finished. Swept next day.

Gungahlin Al9:25 am 11 Nov 11

JC said :

Hate to burst your bubble pettal, but chip sealing was used in Canberra well before self government. I recall the road where I lived in Macgregor got sealed when I was in primary school, so before 1984. And never is another layer sprayed on top. The whole idea is tar is sprayed to seal the road and then the chips are added to give grip to the surface. Without the chips the road would be slippery.

As to those complaining about it, may I ask what you want to give up to be able to afford the luxury of resurfacing with hot mix? I beleive the cost of chip is about 1/3rd the cost of a hotmix reseal.

Also the reason why this method is used here in Canberra (and other rural cities) more than say Sydney is our traffic volumes are so low that even after 10 years the surface is still generally good, however the surface is opening up and becomes slightly porus. So they spray the tar to seal the old surface and chip for grip. In places like Sydney the traffic, heavy vehicles in particular will destroy the road after 10 years, so of course the only way to fix is to rip it up and add hot mix.

A good analogy is a timber deck. When the paint starts to flake do you repair and repaint or replace the whole lot? I know most, depending upon how damaged the wood is would repaint, same too with the roads.

It was only a matter of time before chip-seal’s lone defender chimed in to support the Roads ACT.

JC said :

…. The whole idea is tar is sprayed to seal the road and then the chips are added to give grip to the surface. Without the chips the road would be slippery…

As I said earlier in this post, go for a drive on the parkway. There’s vast sections where the ‘slippery’ bit is in the wheeltracks of where cars actually touch the road (as that is where all the stones got spat out from). The rest of the road is ‘resurfaced’ nicely.
So, using your details, we can say that the parkway is now ‘slippery’ in the wheeltracks due to the resurfacing efforts? It’s probably OK in subrurbs, but is not great on 100km stretched of road when it rains, IMO….
Also, it’s not great for cyclists as when they have redone a major road a few times (over the years), the road surface ends up a couple of inches above the gutter bottom – making a double-sided gutter on an 80km road which is kinda dangerous on a bike! Streeton Drive (at the end near Cotter Rd) was like this for many years until the redid it with proper hotmix this year (is that what it’s called?). That stuff is great! Cheers.

Why resurface a perfectly fine road? Now its just a mess rocks everywhere tar everywhere thanks very much

enrique said :

Welcome to road re-surfacing ACT style!

This method has been used here in Canberra for many years, presumbably due to its ‘cost effective’ properties. In other words – it’s cheap – unfortunately that word is usually paired with ‘nasty’ and on these types of road jobs that is certainly the case.

You may still get another layer of tar sprayed on top if you’re lucky but it’s doubtful. Seen many of these type of jobs over the years to suspect you’ll be stuck with dodgy loose gravel for a few weeks/months until the local traffic tyres roll it in and/or the street sweepers clean up the leftovers.

Self-government, fantastic! There was once a time when the hot mix roads of Canberra were the envy of the nation – alas, never again.

Hate to burst your bubble pettal, but chip sealing was used in Canberra well before self government. I recall the road where I lived in Macgregor got sealed when I was in primary school, so before 1984. And never is another layer sprayed on top. The whole idea is tar is sprayed to seal the road and then the chips are added to give grip to the surface. Without the chips the road would be slippery.

As to those complaining about it, may I ask what you want to give up to be able to afford the luxury of resurfacing with hot mix? I beleive the cost of chip is about 1/3rd the cost of a hotmix reseal.

Also the reason why this method is used here in Canberra (and other rural cities) more than say Sydney is our traffic volumes are so low that even after 10 years the surface is still generally good, however the surface is opening up and becomes slightly porus. So they spray the tar to seal the old surface and chip for grip. In places like Sydney the traffic, heavy vehicles in particular will destroy the road after 10 years, so of course the only way to fix is to rip it up and add hot mix.

A good analogy is a timber deck. When the paint starts to flake do you repair and repaint or replace the whole lot? I know most, depending upon how damaged the wood is would repaint, same too with the roads.

DUB said :

.
What every one should complain about is really dodgy, quick-fix patch work carried out on Athllon Drive and Yarra Glen Drive.Disgusting!!!

Yarra Glen* (no ‘Drive’)

Its Only The First Coat…Like Paint You Need 3 Or 4 Before It Looks Any Good.

creative_canberran3:27 pm 08 Nov 11

misssookie said :

I can’t understand why the Gordon neighbourhood roads are being resealed. Most of them are in great condition. It’s a huge inconvenience for drivers and likely part of some nonsensical roadworks schedule where you get the “upgrade” whether you need it or not. Perhaps I’m just cross because my car windscreen cracked on Saturday as the result of a stonechip…

They would have done better to use the money from these “upgrades” to do a proper job on Drakeford Dr. They’ve sealed little patches all over the place but not bothered to just lay a new surface. All they’ve done is make it bumpier, with the exception of the roundabout which was done properly.

Thoroughly Smashed3:16 pm 08 Nov 11

harvyk1 said :

Yeah this is about the quality of the work which is done on suburban streets. Expect to get a few extra chip marks and don’t be overly surprised if your brakes need replacing in the next few months after a stone gets lodged in your brakes…

If a stone gets lodged in your brakes they were in pretty poor condition to start with.

bearlikesbeer1:44 pm 08 Nov 11

This form of resurfacing not only leaves the gutters full of stones that are never properly cleaned up, it also seems to spread a lot of tar around compared to the older method.

For many days after my street was last resurfaced, car tyres were still picking up tar from the roads, resulting in stains to concrete and paved driveways. The neighbours and I had to make dozens of calls to get the contractor out to inspect the road, and have a go at cleaning the marks from our driveways with chemicals and high pressure hoses.

We all had a whinge to the contractor about the poor quality of the surface, and how tight the ACT govt is. The contractor told us this method was preferred by the govt because it’s a more environmentally friendly method than the traditional “hot mix”. No idea whether that’s really true.

I can’t understand why the Gordon neighbourhood roads are being resealed. Most of them are in great condition. It’s a huge inconvenience for drivers and likely part of some nonsensical roadworks schedule where you get the “upgrade” whether you need it or not. Perhaps I’m just cross because my car windscreen cracked on Saturday as the result of a stonechip…

Back to the bad old days..The ACT gov re-sealed Drakeford Drive from the lights at Erindale Drive all the way up the the Sulwood intersection with this stone-filled crap. This was done in ’97 and the story going around then was that they were averaging at least 2-3 claims for busted windscreens a month for at least the following year. Not sure if they ever stumped up the cash to appease some pretty pi$%ed- off drivers.

Yeah, in the ‘good old days’, Dept of the Capital Territory used quality ‘Hot Mix’ product to do quick reseals…no loose, flying stones, high quality smooth finish, quiet to drive on.

I gather the current trend back to old fashioned tar and rolled stones (as used in Gordon) is justified on the grounds that it costs about a tenth of the hot mix alternative, disregarding the costs of chipped paintwork, spills by motorcyclists and cyclists on loose gravel, brake damage, traffic delays etc.

Gungahlin Al said :

Cheapest solution available, doesn’t last, damages your cars, rips the crap out of your kids if they stack their bikes, signals the end to the neighbourhood kids getting together on the quiet street for a game or skate. And bloody noisy.

I’ve been pointing this out to people here and to ministers and Roads staff for 2 years. Until more of you all start sending emails to Simon Corbell it won’t stop. Coming to your street soon! corbell@act.gov.au

They did our suburban loop street a few months ago and it was a pain in the proverbial. I don’t know why they bothered in the first place as the surface seemed fine, no cracks or potholes. It’s a typical loop street where you can barely reach 50kph for more than a few metres if you really tried. Most people drive around 20-30kph, mostly residents who only drive through one half of the street. So there isn’t enough traffic (or speed?) to make that loose gravel bed in fast. Months later and there’s still heaps of loose stones in the gutter. It’s so rough that my daughter cannot ride her scooter on it. (And don’t even try walking barefoot to visit the neighbour across the road – ouch!). I much preferred our old surface and I wish they had spend their money on the (proper) resealing of one of the major roads that really needs it, like Northbourne Ave for example.

I’m not sure of the timetable, but you’ll get repairs like this about once every three years until the road is 20 years old, at which point you’ll get the resurfacing (as opposed to simply being resealed).

Welcome to roadworks, Canberra style, as they have been for the last 40 years? I can understand the outrage if you’re still a teen- or tween-ager though. You haven’t been alive for a full cycle of road maintenance.

Welcome to road re-surfacing ACT style!

This method has been used here in Canberra for many years, presumbably due to its ‘cost effective’ properties. In other words – it’s cheap – unfortunately that word is usually paired with ‘nasty’ and on these types of road jobs that is certainly the case.

You may still get another layer of tar sprayed on top if you’re lucky but it’s doubtful. Seen many of these type of jobs over the years to suspect you’ll be stuck with dodgy loose gravel for a few weeks/months until the local traffic tyres roll it in and/or the street sweepers clean up the leftovers.

Self-government, fantastic! There was once a time when the hot mix roads of Canberra were the envy of the nation – alas, never again.

I can’t see anything wrong in the picure, this resurfacing is just not yet complete: The drains are still plugged to prevent the loose gravel from running-off. At some time in the future, when the most gravel has embedded in the underlying tar, the loose surface will be removed. I’ve seen this many times before and the end-result’s quite workable and doesn’t throw-up many stones.

However I _would_ be worried if there are no warning signs of a loose surface and if it carries-on for too long.

YetAnotherBlowIn11:37 am 08 Nov 11

Erg0 said :

I seem to recall a similar complaint in the past where it turned out that the work just hadn’t been finished yet.

That’s certainly what happened on Cotter Rd out at Casuarina Sands. It was left partially chipsealed (other parts nice smooth hotmix) in the middle of winter. Then about a month ago they came and finished it off…. and left some nice 1″-2″ dips for the manhole covers.

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

It looks like the low traffic volume, low quality re sealing formula .

They used the same/similar approach on vast sections of the Parkway. Notice the shiny bits of road in the wheeltracks for many kilometres there? That’s where the stones all got spat up by cars (into paintwork and windscreens of nearby cars). Have a look the next time you are on the parkway….
So basically, you end up with a nice resealed road – everywhere except where the actual vehicle wheels make contact with the ground!
A lot of the original GDE was also done that way. Thankfully when they redid it recently, a lot of it was covered up with proper bitumen/asphalt (whatever ‘real’ road is called!) ,so now you don’t get potholes on it within 5 minutes of a rainshower….. Woohoo!

Gungahlin Al11:05 am 08 Nov 11

Cheapest solution available, doesn’t last, damages your cars, rips the crap out of your kids if they stack their bikes, signals the end to the neighbourhood kids getting together on the quiet street for a game or skate. And bloody noisy.

I’ve been pointing this out to people here and to ministers and Roads staff for 2 years. Until more of you all start sending emails to Simon Corbell it won’t stop. Coming to your street soon! corbell@act.gov.au

AFAIK this is the standard method of resealing in Canberra. It’s absolute crap, but no doubt it’s cheap.

Rawhide Kid Part310:34 am 08 Nov 11

It looks like the low traffic volume, low quality re sealing formula .

The usual method for this type of (budget) resurfacing is to leave it for a couple of days, then sweep up most (but not all, watch your windscreens and paintwork) of the loose gravel.

Yeah this is about the quality of the work which is done on suburban streets. Expect to get a few extra chip marks and don’t be overly surprised if your brakes need replacing in the next few months after a stone gets lodged in your brakes…

I seem to recall a similar complaint in the past where it turned out that the work just hadn’t been finished yet.

Interesting. They’ve just chipsealed over the top of the original hotmix bitumen surface.

Chipsealing is a lot cheaper than hotmix surfacing and produces a really s***ty road surface.

Whats with all the litter, pick up your game Tuggers kiddies.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Stones are totally detaching from the pavement in less than half a day.
It’s no less of a pain in the arse but it’s just excess gravel.

+1.
What every one should complain about is really dodgy, quick-fix patch work carried out on Athllon Drive and Yarra Glen Drive.Disgusting!!!

Looks to me like several roads I’ve seen that were part-way through repairs. That doesn’t mean they’re going to do any more work on it, but one can always live in hope.

Yes and they will probably continue to do so for at least six months, if the experience in our street (resurfaced 6m ago) is anything to go by. The street sweepers will come around on a regular but not-as-frequently-as-you-would-like basis.

Thoroughly Smashed9:02 am 08 Nov 11

Stones are totally detaching from the pavement in less than half a day.
It’s no less of a pain in the arse but it’s just excess gravel.

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