2 August 2013

Raiders a team for the lower class? [With poll]

| johnboy
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It has long been noted that when Raiders fans attend a Brumbies game they are astonished and alarmed by the displays of manners and courtesy from the crowd.

Sometimes they mistake basic decency for a thing they call “lack of atmosphere”.

In The Roar today Kane Cassidy is opining about why Wollongong is a better choice for an A-League team.

His argument seems to come down to a lack of scum in Canberra and what dregs we have already being Raiders fans:

The social makeup of Canberra is much different to Wollongong’s as well, a great deal of Canberra’s residents are upper middle class, privately educated children of higher level public servants meaning plenty of support for Canberra’s Rugby Union team.

I’m not saying that no one from a public school has ever watched or played Union, just that private schools are their bread and butter and the area’s relatively small lower class contingent already has the Canberra Raiders representing them (Call me classist if you want but without Queanbeyan the Raiders wouldn’t exist)

Thoughts readers?

Raiders fans are low class?

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DPH – Don’t tell me I am insecure for taking the bait when the title for this thread is ‘Raiders a team for the lower class’ (complete with poll)! Pot calling the kettle black, much?

Fair enough maybe to say that I fed the troll (but I don’t resile from what I said and shame on Johnboy for being the troll in this case).

I am very much in agreement with you when you say that the biggest handicap for Rugby Union in this country is the ‘inability to connect with the general public’. However the fault does not lie with the ARU – it lies with the rugby supporter base. Even Rugby supporters who should know better – like Johnboy and Peter Fitzsimons – are constantly harping on about ‘lower classes’ and rugby league.

One positive out of this weekend’s result is that the championship went to a city where everyone loves rugby – even the tattooed lower classes. Indeed I suggest that the inclusive NZ rugby culture – a marked contrast to Australia – might have a little something to do with their success?

drfelonious said :

Oh please stop putting tickets on yourself you sad bastard. You are no better than me because you happen to pretend that you like rugby over league even though the standard of competition is so obviously inferior its not funny. Every rugby “fan” watches the NRL grand final but league fans don’t bother to watch rugby. I was thinking about making the effort to watch the rugby final – just to support Canberra – but your attitude has convinced me otherwise. Plus I know I would be bored stupid with the actual game.

Stop with the hypocrisy as well. The only thing worse than a snob is a Canberra born and bred rugby union snob – because you know better (or at least you ought to know better).

I’ve played serious competition in both games and I can assure you that league is a massive step up in terms of the physical demands. Deep down you and all rugby fans know this to be true – that’s why you spend so much time on irrelevancies such as the tattoos/lower class origins of league players.

Israel Folau’s debut was a case in point in terms of exposing the deep-seating inadequacies of union fans. The guy plays one game for the Wallabies and the leather tweed patch crowd was fawning all over him (after initially looking down their nose of course in the standard vomit-inducing rugby way). Of course he only had to do about 1/4 the work he would be expected to do in a league game in order to get that fawning praise.

Wow, the insecurity is strong in this one.

I’ve grown up on Rugby but I follow all sport. I’ll sit down & watch the world series of under water chess if it’s on.

As far as any Rugby fans looking down on League fans, simply put, those people are w*nkers and should be ignored. A major issue for Rugby in this country is the inability to connect with general public & it’s something the ARU sorely needs to address.

Now, onto the whole “Leagues harder than Union, the standards higher, every other sport in the world is for p**fs, Leagues the toughest, greatest game on the planet bar none” attitude.

I always get a good laugh from this. For starters, Rugby League & Rugby Union players generally play both games as they growing up. Players that make it to the highest level are gifted athletes & are usually good at all sports.

Yes, Israel Folau has made an impact in Rugby. He was one of the more outstanding players in the Lions series. Kinda like when he played Rugby League. Remember how dominant he was in League?

Sonny Bill sat on the bench for the All Blacks during his time in Rugby, now he’s arguably the hottest commodity in Rugby League. So does that indicate that Rugby is a higher standard than League? Of course not.

Comparing Union & League is like comparing chalk & cheese. It’ a redundant exercise.

drfelonious said :

Oh please stop putting tickets on yourself you sad bastard. You are no better than me because you happen to pretend that you like rugby over league even though the standard of competition is so obviously inferior its not funny. Every rugby “fan” watches the NRL grand final but league fans don’t bother to watch rugby. I was thinking about making the effort to watch the rugby final – just to support Canberra – but your attitude has convinced me otherwise. Plus I know I would be bored stupid with the actual game.

Stop with the hypocrisy as well. The only thing worse than a snob is a Canberra born and bred rugby union snob – because you know better (or at least you ought to know better).

I’ve played serious competition in both games and I can assure you that league is a massive step up in terms of the physical demands. Deep down you and all rugby fans know this to be true – that’s why you spend so much time on irrelevancies such as the tattoos/lower class origins of league players.

Israel Folau’s debut was a case in point in terms of exposing the deep-seating inadequacies of union fans. The guy plays one game for the Wallabies and the leather tweed patch crowd was fawning all over him (after initially looking down their nose of course in the standard vomit-inducing rugby way). Of course he only had to do about 1/4 the work he would be expected to do in a league game in order to get that fawning praise.

What a load of crock. There are union fans who will only ever watch union. There are league fans who will only ever watch league. And there are some fans who will watch and enjoy both. Making unfounded claims that the sport you like is the most popular makes you look bad and reflects poorly on your favourite sport.

Spitfire3 said :

….

(And damn you, poetix, for picking up my spelling error. By the power of Grayskull, I will not make another one this century.)

And if I ever stuff up spelling on here I am more dead than Grayskull’s granny. Awesome responsibillity*

*just kidding that time (-:

Quite an interesting thread for a country that supposedly doesn’t have a class system.

League is a working class sport, formed by the need to bring in some income for poor players who couldn’t have afforded to play as amateurs in the north of England, where the richer southerners could continue to play as “amateurs” but receive alternative methods of compensation.
The irony is that League now produces huge income in Australia (which obviously guarantees the greater depth and quality of squads) but retains it’s working class roots in Australia as a major national sport derived from working class immigration of miners, and in the UK as a regional sport in the poorer and grittier North, again from previous mining towns where the idea was to get rid of the downtrodden workers frustrations by screaming your guts out at a game instead of slapping the wife and kids about all weekend.
It amazes me that 100 years later there’s still the same attitude about differences in the fans and players.

I went to the Raiders v Sharks finals match last season and couldn’t believe how well the supporters behaved, didn’t hear one swear word in 80 mins, fans mixed in together with no segregation, nobody threatening or shoving each other, no staggering drunks falling over people……it was really posh and not what i’d been led to believe with talk of “bogan city” and local knuckledraggers swinging through the trees to get to the stadium. Maybe that’s just Canberra though?
I wish the standard of Union was better though, it’s a far more tactical and mentally enriching game , like watching a game of chess instead of draughts. If you get the subtleties and follow the plots, it’s more stimulating for the brain.
It’s no secret that the spectator age of Union and Cricket watchers is older, I guess a lot of people gravitate to them after years of watching simple bang bang games like NRL or soccer. You can only take so much before you’ve seen it all before and it becomes one-dimensional and “samey”. It doesn’t mean you hate the other games, you’re just ready to move on and try and get a bit more out of watching your sports.
You can see why NFL does so well in the US, it caters for everybody of all ages, you can watch the extreme physical and the heavy tactical mixed into together…..you can’t do that with either NRL or Union.

grunge_hippy9:58 am 04 Aug 13

Drfelonious has it it one. +10000 points.

Now that the Brumbies have crashed and burned they will all jump on the Raiders bandwagon anyway.

The Giants won. The Brumbies lost. I go for neither team, yet all seems right in the world this evening.

(And damn you, poetix, for picking up my spelling error. By the power of Grayskull, I will not make another one this century.)

gungsuperstar said :

I’m surprised we haven’t introduced stupid, mindless stereotypes about AFL yet.

The Giants bandwagon is still getting up to speed, don’t worry it will happen.

gungsuperstar2:23 pm 03 Aug 13

I’m a bit disappointed to see a thread posted this weekend that was inevitably going to become ruggers vs league vs soccer.

For all it’s faults, one of the positive things about Canberra is that it will unite behind a band wagon. And while I say that in a tongue in cheek manner, I do really mean that – most of Canberra is united behind the Brumbies this weekend, we didn’t need “code war” rubbish.

I’m surprised we haven’t introduced stupid, mindless stereotypes about AFL yet.

Although the idea of someone called Kane writing about class is just delightful, isn’t it, Persephone?

Indeed it is, Phoebe. (Self satisfied smirks.)

R. Slicker said :

I don’t know about comparisons between the Brumbies and the Raiders but the trough areas in the men’s toilets are a lot more interesting during Brumbies games and they let you look as well 😛

As long as you look with your eyes, and not with your hands?

Deckard said :

Well I go for the Brumbies and the Raiders. What does that make me?

Bipolar?

I don’t know about comparisons between the Brumbies and the Raiders but the trough areas in the men’s toilets are a lot more interesting during Brumbies games and they let you look as well 😛

Well I go for the Brumbies and the Raiders. What does that make me?

Oh please stop putting tickets on yourself you sad bastard. You are no better than me because you happen to pretend that you like rugby over league even though the standard of competition is so obviously inferior its not funny. Every rugby “fan” watches the NRL grand final but league fans don’t bother to watch rugby. I was thinking about making the effort to watch the rugby final – just to support Canberra – but your attitude has convinced me otherwise. Plus I know I would be bored stupid with the actual game.

Stop with the hypocrisy as well. The only thing worse than a snob is a Canberra born and bred rugby union snob – because you know better (or at least you ought to know better).

I’ve played serious competition in both games and I can assure you that league is a massive step up in terms of the physical demands. Deep down you and all rugby fans know this to be true – that’s why you spend so much time on irrelevancies such as the tattoos/lower class origins of league players.

Israel Folau’s debut was a case in point in terms of exposing the deep-seating inadequacies of union fans. The guy plays one game for the Wallabies and the leather tweed patch crowd was fawning all over him (after initially looking down their nose of course in the standard vomit-inducing rugby way). Of course he only had to do about 1/4 the work he would be expected to do in a league game in order to get that fawning praise.

dungfungus said :

The question is, can the ACT Government afford to fund another national football team?

The next question is, which one of them would go? There may well be only room for two national football teams, but why assume that means an A-League team misses out?

grunge_hippy6:16 pm 02 Aug 13

I blame hipsters. they support the brumbies surely. dont see them at raiders games. horray!

Spitfire3 said :

…encumbent upon me now to declare….

That’d be incumbent, wouldn’t it? Don’t worry though, it’s quite a common mistake.

pink little birdie3:58 pm 02 Aug 13

The Raiders milk is awesome. Canberra milk should make it available more often.

I think we’ve determined that 23% of canberra’s population is made up of the lower orders…

50% of the brumbies supporters only attend becasue they scored free corpaorate tickets from their government workplace.

they have no interest in the game, they just show up for free champagne.

johnboy said :

Or just can’t read or type

Fark you ya snobby mudda f***a……oops I was momentarily channelling Todd Carney 🙂

Barcham said :

A_Dragon said :

The level of bias against the Raiders & their supporter base on this site, encouraged by it moderators, is despicable. I have no doubt that if we were granted an A League licence that team would suffer the same unfortunate fate.

To be fair the only two people who moderate here are Johnboy and I. Now I can’t speak for Johnboy, but I try to maintain a reasonable, fair, and unbiased apathy towards all football teams and the various forms of footballs they play with.

Spoken like a true heathen!

I’d still like to kick Todd Carney square in the nuts. That is the only feels I have when it comes to footy.

And talk funny.

I have two contributions to make. They are as follows:

Firstly, as a non-unionist whose past efforts to gain any level of interest in rugby have all failed, I say “GO THE BRUMBIES ON SATURDAY but rugby still sucks”.

However that’s where my generosity of spirit ends and as a non-Queanbeyanese Raiders supporter, I feel it encumbent upon me now to declare “EFF ALL USE CAN’TS”. In doing so, I believe I speak for several who cannot or will not speak for themselves here.

Or just can’t read or type

neanderthalsis said :

It is a well known stereotype fact that soccer is only played and supported by Sheilas, wogs and poofters. And the ACT being an elitist Geniocracy Kakistocracy, their kind is not welcomed here.

Good comment, great book.

Ah, but I bet the Raiders burnouts are done on 205 Ling Longs, and the Brumbies burnouts on 275 Michelins or Continentals.

In defence of Raiders fans (god, those words are bitter coming out of my mouth), Brumbies fans aren’t particularly high class either. I live near the stadium, and I can always tell when either the Brumbies or the Raiders have won a home game. How? From the burnouts both sets of fans perform along my street after their teams have won.

Have only been to one game of Rugby, and that was the first game of the Kookaburras. I was supposed to meet some mates there who were going to explain how rugger was played, but I couldn’t find them. I watched some of the game completely bewildered.
And what realy got me was when a try happened, instead of yelling out ” YOU FKN BEAUTY, KILL EM ” or some such , they all muttered “good show” and then clapped ! Hells bells…
All to much for me, I wandered off to the Kingo and threw down schooners; and caught my Collingwood team on the telly. Now there’s a team.

Can someone pls explain to me why Brumbies fans:

a) Never shut up about the Raiders, and
b) Never stop trying to belittle the Raiders’ supporters?

We just like a laugh.

And the criminal exploits of tattooed losers are always a crowd pleaser.

Actually we normally have other things to talk about.

HiddenDragon12:36 pm 02 Aug 13

Someone (can’t recall who) once drolly observed that a player who moves from League to Union learns that youse is not, in fact, the plural form of you.

The Raiders were the Canberra Raiders in 1989, 1990 and 1994 (take that, Terry Lamb), the rest of the time, they truly have been the Queanbeyan Raiders.

Aside from providing photo opportunities for politicians (as do the Raiders) the Brumbies main purpose is to make our ra ras, and wannabe ra ras feel better about themselves, and take their minds of the fact that they’d really much rather be somewhere else, if only they could swing it.

Basically, I’m with you on this one, Barcham.

Can’t we just buy ourselves an English Premier League club and pretend to support them? It sounds like we’ve got the cash…

A_Dragon said :

The level of bias against the Raiders & their supporter base on this site, encouraged by it moderators, is despicable. I have no doubt that if we were granted an A League licence that team would suffer the same unfortunate fate.

To be fair the only two people who moderate here are Johnboy and I. Now I can’t speak for Johnboy, but I try to maintain a reasonable, fair, and unbiased apathy towards all football teams and the various forms of footballs they play with.

I wouldn’t say the Brumbies fans show manners and courtesy, rather it often seems to be a complete lack of interest or excitement in the game.

I’ve seen morgues that are more fun than the Brumbies members area.

And I’m a Brumbies fan.

ps its much more interesting at the Brumbies games sitting near the UC students, at least they look like they’re enjoying themselves.

neanderthalsis11:12 am 02 Aug 13

A_Dragon said :

The level of bias against the Raiders & their supporter base on this site, encouraged by it moderators, is despicable. I have no doubt that if we were granted an A League licence that team would suffer the same unfortunate fate.

Really? There is the occasionally story about raiders players behaving badly and the usual moaning when they go down by a big margin, but I have seen no real entrenched bias against the Green men and their merry band of fans.

A_Dragon said :

The level of bias against the Raiders & their supporter base on this site, encouraged by it moderators, is despicable. I have no doubt that if we were granted an A League licence that team would suffer the same unfortunate fate.

The question is, can the ACT Government afford to fund another national football team?

Actually i think the type of crowd that would attend soccer/football games is different to league and rugby. In fact as someone who goes to both the class of the Brumbies crowd is less pretentious than it used to be. I’m not a Brumbies bandwagon jumper either, I went to games in their first season. I saw the Brumbies beat the Reds 21-19 (something close to that). However the crowd then was all about drinking champagne and wearing suits etc to the game.

I’d like to see an a-league team here it will probably draw 10,000 a game as well. Given in summer we have no highish profile male sports teams, it would probably work. Given the NQ and GC A-league sides failed though, they may be a bit shy to expand.

However right now even a winning Brumbies and Raiders sides are failing to draw crowds. I suspect the election and expense of going to games are the big reasons.

The level of bias against the Raiders & their supporter base on this site, encouraged by it moderators, is despicable. I have no doubt that if we were granted an A League licence that team would suffer the same unfortunate fate.

There’s nothing like a really silly thread to cheer you up when you’re sick…

neanderthalsis10:40 am 02 Aug 13

It is a well known stereotype fact that soccer is only played and supported by Sheilas, wogs and poofters. And the ACT being an elitist Geniocracy Kakistocracy, their kind is not welcomed here.

We only tolerate league as a means of distraction and amusement to keep the revolting peasants from revolting.

Well given that Johnboy is an ardent Brumbies supporter he wouldn’t be seen dead at a Raiders game surely??

I actually read this earlier this morning and was going to submit it myself. Looks like you beat me to it JB. Rightly or wrongly, he his arguments are based on stereotypes.

An A-league team in Canberra would be good, it’s the only way I’ll get involved

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