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Recent Articles/Opinions For and Against Canberra’s Light Rail

By rommeldog56 - 21 November 2014 77

These relatively short recent articles/opinions are certainly worth a read – what ever your pre disposition to the Light Rail :

Against“Fantasy: The case for light rail in Gungahlin”

For “Public transport report boosts case for Canberra light rail, ACT government says”

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77 Responses to
Recent Articles/Opinions For and Against Canberra’s Light Rail
Postalgeek 11:10 pm 22 Nov 14

dungfungus said :

The latest is that the Canberra trams will allow bikes on board. This is a radical but not unexpected move given the clout that Pedal Power has over this minority government.

I’d hardly call it ‘radical’:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bicycle and light rail

http://www.munidiaries.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/4332939495_d1403a6623.jpg

https://www.acm.jhu.edu//~sthurmovik/Railpics/08-08-01_SAN_JOSE_VTA/VTA_Light-Rail-bicycle-rack.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/26/36607757_45a0153fe6_z.jpg?zz=1

https://as.sjsu.edu/asts/images/bikelrt.jpg

http://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/1/media/riderservices/photo_bikeontrain_2.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~phyilla1/sstrails/ontransit.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4332722131_ed3d2e6da5.jpg

And so on.

If they are suggesting that standing (and sitting) passengers be used as bike racks, then yes, I understand your consternation, but they may adopt a different approach.

Maya123 10:27 pm 22 Nov 14

rommeldog56 said :

Maya123 said :

I recently (last month) rode the well patronised light rail in Seattle, USA. They allow bikes aboard and I never saw any problem with this. They are expanding their network by the way.
I have also shared train carriages with bikes in Europe without any problems.
It’s strange how the same situation doesn’t cause any problems and worry to some people, but a few others get so uptight about it. I think it isn’t so much bikes aboard public transport, but what people feel about bikes in general that colours opinions.

How do the bikes enter/exit the tram ? Or are they in a bike cage in a dedicated carriage at the back ? If inside the tram next to the owner, how does that work in terms of available space and other tram passengers ? Will entry/exit of bikes mean longer stops and so, a longer journey ?

BTW – construction of the Seattle tram was/is heavily federally funded and additional revenues to offset the cost are raised by special taxes – as far as I recall. But yes, it is supposed to expand.

The bikes enter through the normal door. There is a special alcove for the bikes. Bikes can be got on and off trams quicker than some people can get on and off. Wheeled in; wheeled out.

rommeldog56 9:13 pm 22 Nov 14

Maya123 said :

I recently (last month) rode the well patronised light rail in Seattle, USA. They allow bikes aboard and I never saw any problem with this. They are expanding their network by the way.
I have also shared train carriages with bikes in Europe without any problems.
It’s strange how the same situation doesn’t cause any problems and worry to some people, but a few others get so uptight about it. I think it isn’t so much bikes aboard public transport, but what people feel about bikes in general that colours opinions.

How do the bikes enter/exit the tram ? Or are they in a bike cage in a dedicated carriage at the back ? If inside the tram next to the owner, how does that work in terms of available space and other tram passengers ? Will entry/exit of bikes mean longer stops and so, a longer journey ?

BTW – construction of the Seattle tram was/is heavily federally funded and additional revenues to offset the cost are raised by special taxes – as far as I recall. But yes, it is supposed to expand.

rosscoact 9:01 pm 22 Nov 14

Maya123 said :

dungfungus said :

Maya123 said :

I recently (last month) rode the well patronised light rail in Seattle, USA. They allow bikes aboard and I never saw any problem with this. They are expanding their network by the way.
I have also shared train carriages with bikes in Europe without any problems.
It’s strange how the same situation doesn’t cause any problems and worry to some people, but a few others get so uptight about it. I think it isn’t so much bikes aboard public transport, but what people feel about bikes in general that colours opinions.

This is what will happen without bikes:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/mumbai-express-is-a-standing-joke-number-of-seats-on-sydneys-north-west-rail-link-could-be-drastically-cut/story-fni0cx12-1227073324575?nk=506aaf00ed62e9b57bc65d52d1c6fa58

Ah, so you are a Daily Telegraph reader.

I’m pretty sure this isn’t a surprise 🙂

Canberroid 8:32 pm 22 Nov 14

dungfungus said :

Maya123 said :

I recently (last month) rode the well patronised light rail in Seattle, USA. They allow bikes aboard and I never saw any problem with this. They are expanding their network by the way.
I have also shared train carriages with bikes in Europe without any problems.
It’s strange how the same situation doesn’t cause any problems and worry to some people, but a few others get so uptight about it. I think it isn’t so much bikes aboard public transport, but what people feel about bikes in general that colours opinions.

This is what will happen without bikes:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/mumbai-express-is-a-standing-joke-number-of-seats-on-sydneys-north-west-rail-link-could-be-drastically-cut/story-fni0cx12-1227073324575?nk=506aaf00ed62e9b57bc65d52d1c6fa58

Given my lack of knowledge about trains which you’ve kindly pointed out a couple of times I’m afraid I’ll need you to explain the relationship between bikes on Canberra light rail and that article. You could answer a couple of my earlier questions posed to you while you’re at it.

Maya123 4:58 pm 22 Nov 14

dungfungus said :

Maya123 said :

I recently (last month) rode the well patronised light rail in Seattle, USA. They allow bikes aboard and I never saw any problem with this. They are expanding their network by the way.
I have also shared train carriages with bikes in Europe without any problems.
It’s strange how the same situation doesn’t cause any problems and worry to some people, but a few others get so uptight about it. I think it isn’t so much bikes aboard public transport, but what people feel about bikes in general that colours opinions.

This is what will happen without bikes:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/mumbai-express-is-a-standing-joke-number-of-seats-on-sydneys-north-west-rail-link-could-be-drastically-cut/story-fni0cx12-1227073324575?nk=506aaf00ed62e9b57bc65d52d1c6fa58

Ah, so you are a Daily Telegraph reader.

dungfungus 4:52 pm 22 Nov 14

Maya123 said :

I recently (last month) rode the well patronised light rail in Seattle, USA. They allow bikes aboard and I never saw any problem with this. They are expanding their network by the way.
I have also shared train carriages with bikes in Europe without any problems.
It’s strange how the same situation doesn’t cause any problems and worry to some people, but a few others get so uptight about it. I think it isn’t so much bikes aboard public transport, but what people feel about bikes in general that colours opinions.

This is what will happen without bikes:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/mumbai-express-is-a-standing-joke-number-of-seats-on-sydneys-north-west-rail-link-could-be-drastically-cut/story-fni0cx12-1227073324575?nk=506aaf00ed62e9b57bc65d52d1c6fa58

Maya123 3:18 pm 22 Nov 14

I recently (last month) rode the well patronised light rail in Seattle, USA. They allow bikes aboard and I never saw any problem with this. They are expanding their network by the way.
I have also shared train carriages with bikes in Europe without any problems.
It’s strange how the same situation doesn’t cause any problems and worry to some people, but a few others get so uptight about it. I think it isn’t so much bikes aboard public transport, but what people feel about bikes in general that colours opinions.

dungfungus 2:50 pm 22 Nov 14

Canberroid said :

dungfungus said :

Canberroid said :

dungfungus said :

Comment on the fantasy tram is never far away especially when Minister Corbell has another brain explosion about the added benefits trams will bring.
The latest is that the Canberra trams will allow bikes on board. This is a radical but not unexpected move given the clout that Pedal Power has over this minority government.

Allowing bikes on the trams will substantially increase the accessibility of the route for people who live a bit far to walk to tram stops but within an easy riding distance (and same again at their destination). That is not currently a realistic option with Action buses since it’s a crapshoot as to whether your bus will have space on the two-bike rack for your bike, if it has a bike rack at all.

dungfungus said :

I have shared standing areas a with bikes on regional trains in Europe (a most uncomfortable experience) and there is no way I would contemplate sharing the same thing on a tram in Australia.

Given your pessimism over the whole project I’m surprised that you’d contemplate using the train, let alone having to share the train with so many other commuters that you’d need to stand up.

You obviously know little about trams/trains. Trams and some regional trains are designed predominantly for standing passengers (not bikes).
As you correctly point out it is not a realistic option on an Action bus and the same applies to the proposed tram.
Cyclists in the ACT are already cosseted with an abundance of paths so why on earth would a cyclist go out of their normal way to get on a stop/start tram with their bike?

Will Canberra’s train be designed predominately for standing and have enough passengers to fill all seats though? That’s the case we’re talking about here that might force you to share standing space with those cyclists and their nasty bikes.

A cyclist might go out of their normal way to get on a stop/start tram with their bike because they aren’t capable or inclined to ride 10 or 20km to work (and as such are not currently a cyclist), but would ride 1 or 2km to the train.

Why are you so opposed to sharing space with bikes? Is is really that much of an inconvenience to you that no one should be allowed to bring their bikes along?

“Why are you so opposed to sharing space with bikes? Is is really that much of an inconvenience to you that no one should be allowed to bring their bikes along?”
Are you fair-dinkum?
Why do you think they are banned in Adelaide and (partially) in Melbourne?
I think you actually know less about trams/trains than I suggested earlier.

gooterz 2:46 pm 22 Nov 14

So the trams will have mostly standing space so you can ride ur bike. And yet space so sit down so you can use a laptop . And its only 12 km so shouldn’t take longer than 10 minutes.

How hard is it to ride the 12km?
It wont take you long to get fit to do it.

Canberroid 2:18 pm 22 Nov 14

dungfungus said :

Canberroid said :

dungfungus said :

Comment on the fantasy tram is never far away especially when Minister Corbell has another brain explosion about the added benefits trams will bring.
The latest is that the Canberra trams will allow bikes on board. This is a radical but not unexpected move given the clout that Pedal Power has over this minority government.

Allowing bikes on the trams will substantially increase the accessibility of the route for people who live a bit far to walk to tram stops but within an easy riding distance (and same again at their destination). That is not currently a realistic option with Action buses since it’s a crapshoot as to whether your bus will have space on the two-bike rack for your bike, if it has a bike rack at all.

dungfungus said :

I have shared standing areas a with bikes on regional trains in Europe (a most uncomfortable experience) and there is no way I would contemplate sharing the same thing on a tram in Australia.

Given your pessimism over the whole project I’m surprised that you’d contemplate using the train, let alone having to share the train with so many other commuters that you’d need to stand up.

You obviously know little about trams/trains. Trams and some regional trains are designed predominantly for standing passengers (not bikes).
As you correctly point out it is not a realistic option on an Action bus and the same applies to the proposed tram.
Cyclists in the ACT are already cosseted with an abundance of paths so why on earth would a cyclist go out of their normal way to get on a stop/start tram with their bike?

Will Canberra’s train be designed predominately for standing and have enough passengers to fill all seats though? That’s the case we’re talking about here that might force you to share standing space with those cyclists and their nasty bikes.

A cyclist might go out of their normal way to get on a stop/start tram with their bike because they aren’t capable or inclined to ride 10 or 20km to work (and as such are not currently a cyclist), but would ride 1 or 2km to the train.

Why are you so opposed to sharing space with bikes? Is is really that much of an inconvenience to you that no one should be allowed to bring their bikes along?

dungfungus 12:33 pm 22 Nov 14

Canberroid said :

dungfungus said :

Comment on the fantasy tram is never far away especially when Minister Corbell has another brain explosion about the added benefits trams will bring.
The latest is that the Canberra trams will allow bikes on board. This is a radical but not unexpected move given the clout that Pedal Power has over this minority government.

Allowing bikes on the trams will substantially increase the accessibility of the route for people who live a bit far to walk to tram stops but within an easy riding distance (and same again at their destination). That is not currently a realistic option with Action buses since it’s a crapshoot as to whether your bus will have space on the two-bike rack for your bike, if it has a bike rack at all.

dungfungus said :

I have shared standing areas a with bikes on regional trains in Europe (a most uncomfortable experience) and there is no way I would contemplate sharing the same thing on a tram in Australia.

Given your pessimism over the whole project I’m surprised that you’d contemplate using the train, let alone having to share the train with so many other commuters that you’d need to stand up.

You obviously know little about trams/trains. Trams and some regional trains are designed predominantly for standing passengers (not bikes).
As you correctly point out it is not a realistic option on an Action bus and the same applies to the proposed tram.
Cyclists in the ACT are already cosseted with an abundance of paths so why on earth would a cyclist go out of their normal way to get on a stop/start tram with their bike?

Canberroid 12:08 pm 22 Nov 14

dungfungus said :

Comment on the fantasy tram is never far away especially when Minister Corbell has another brain explosion about the added benefits trams will bring.
The latest is that the Canberra trams will allow bikes on board. This is a radical but not unexpected move given the clout that Pedal Power has over this minority government.

Allowing bikes on the trams will substantially increase the accessibility of the route for people who live a bit far to walk to tram stops but within an easy riding distance (and same again at their destination). That is not currently a realistic option with Action buses since it’s a crapshoot as to whether your bus will have space on the two-bike rack for your bike, if it has a bike rack at all.

dungfungus said :

I have shared standing areas a with bikes on regional trains in Europe (a most uncomfortable experience) and there is no way I would contemplate sharing the same thing on a tram in Australia.

Given your pessimism over the whole project I’m surprised that you’d contemplate using the train, let alone having to share the train with so many other commuters that you’d need to stand up.

dungfungus 9:48 am 22 Nov 14

Comment on the fantasy tram is never far away especially when Minister Corbell has another brain explosion about the added benefits trams will bring.
The latest is that the Canberra trams will allow bikes on board. This is a radical but not unexpected move given the clout that Pedal Power has over this minority government.
It should be noted that in Melbourne, only folding (collapsible) bikes are allowed on trams and in Adelaide (where Ms Thomas the CEO of Capital Metro Agency was a tram expert) bikes are not allowed at all. Some potential conflict here perhaps?
I have shared standing areas a with bikes on regional trains in Europe (a most uncomfortable experience) and there is no way I would contemplate sharing the same thing on a tram in Australia.
I think Corbell has totally lost the plot on this. He should be making his retirement plans now.

HiddenDragon 6:54 pm 21 Nov 14

It has gone a bit quiet on the tram front, but it would be a courageous politician who took (relative) silence for consent. With the Wayne Goss memorial service held earlier today, it is timely to remember his wonderfully pithy comment about people waiting with their baseball bats….

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