24 May 2009

Red lights - advisory only?

| Anna Key
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For the past few weeks, my journey to work requres me to turn right from Athllon Dve into Mawson Dve. While waiting for the lights, I’m often at the front of the queue and I’m amazed by the number of people that must jump the red to get onto Athllon Dve. There are often still cars in the intersection when the Athllon lights turn green, and often they have clearly exceeded 60kph approaching the intersection. I should also mention that this usually takes place around 8.30 when there are also a lot of students crossing Athllon to get to Melrose High.

On Friday, I saw a few girls nearly get run down by someone deciding that the red light doesn’t apply to them. I always thought you need to stop on a red, or even an amber, but clearly this doesn’t apply at this intersection.

I wonder if the police decided to patrol the area we would hear a lot of bleating about revenue raising?

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And also, I said mostly. I don’t think those who run red lights are blameless and never claimed to.

caf said :

GregW: The blame doesn’t lie with arrogant foreign students, pedestrians, or the government. The blame lies squarely with the drivers who drive through red lights.

Well actually, no.

When a students enters the road (not a pedestrian crossing) in front of existing cars it is their fault when they get hit, regardless of what someone does at an intersection down the road.

Postalgeek said :

Nevertheless, you did misread his post when you took him to task, so there is a kind of natural eye-for-eye balance to ‘Spiceydog’. Sounds like a little extra mustard between the buns has caused some upset.

No not upset. I got it wrong, he got it wrong. Just pointing put how easy it is to get it wrong. if you are going to try and read between the lines, at least get it right, or else you may be wrong !!!!

Nevertheless, you did misread his post when you took him to task, so there is a kind of natural eye-for-eye balance to ‘Spiceydog’. Sounds like a little extra mustard between the buns has caused some upset.

Very Busy said :

Spiceydog,

If you read my post s l o w l y you will see some comma’s. To rephrase in simpleton terms for you what I was saying was

Whoa, slow down there Tex. You may need to read my post more S L O W L Y and you may notice that my name is Spideydog not “Spiceydog”.

Sgt.Bungers said :

The best road safety tool is a police car in your rear view mirror. With ACT Police numbers being so low that at times there are only 2 patrol cars in an area as big as Belconnen… a police car in each of our rear view mirrors is a rare occurrence.

Having recently listened to a speech by ACT Police Commissioner, the Public is leed to believe that ACT actually has the highest rate of Police Officers on the streets at any one time, anywhere in Australia. He did however, go on to say that in many of those cases, the Police vehicle may be Detectives en-route somewhere of a higher priority, or a Paddy wagon that is already escorting criminals, thus unable to stop. We may take these remarks as gospel, or argue them outright, either way, we definitely, do not have enough patrol vehicles on the road for the size of this City (not the population).On these combined facts, I am left to concur with you S.B

You would probably get more waves at the dragway too …. lol

But going on a couple of posts here, some people are getting waved at ….. I must be too rough lookin to get a wave ??

If Canberra had a dragway I’m sure none of this sort of behaviour would occur anymore.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

I love it how when people break traffic laws it’s never their fault. It’s other people’s fault, because if you can’t go RIGHT NOW it’s the end of the world. And let’s not forget those speed cameras that shoot out tow cables and drag you into intersections against your will.

As for the “I know I’d do the right thing if a bunch of policemen followed me around!” crowd – take some f.cking responsibility for your own actions, infants. We don’t need to spend tens of millions of dollars on extra police because you had a cry when you got busted for speeding.

I am going to completely agree with Woody on this one.

Jim Jones said :

caf said :

GregW: The blame doesn’t lie with arrogant foreign students, pedestrians, or the government. The blame lies squarely with the drivers who drive through red lights.

Surely cyclists are too blame.

“to blame” goddammit – there’s something stuck in my ‘o’ key.

caf said :

GregW: The blame doesn’t lie with arrogant foreign students, pedestrians, or the government. The blame lies squarely with the drivers who drive through red lights.

Surely cyclists are too blame.

GregW: The blame doesn’t lie with arrogant foreign students, pedestrians, or the government. The blame lies squarely with the drivers who drive through red lights.

see post #23 [and #26] cantanga, or do you have difficulty reading?

Spideydog said :

I dunno, but the lack of common courtesy driver etiquette is appalling ….. When was the last time someone here has received a thank you wave from another driver ???

When was the last time someone in Canberra deserved a thankyou wave?

DarkLadyWolfMother8:11 am 25 May 09

Funny, ant, I get waves of thanks, or give them, quite often (twice yesterday in fact). I guess people can’t see my frangipani stickers…

Woody Mann-Caruso12:39 am 25 May 09

I love it how when people break traffic laws it’s never their fault. It’s other people’s fault, because if you can’t go RIGHT NOW it’s the end of the world. And let’s not forget those speed cameras that shoot out tow cables and drag you into intersections against your will. As for the “I know I’d do the right thing if a bunch of policemen followed me around!” crowd – take some f.cking responsibility for your own actions, infants. We don’t need to spend tens of millions of dollars on extra police because you had a cry when you got busted for speeding.

astrojax said :

(and spidey, if you drive at me through the chicanes on childers street or into anu [and especially if let me through] you got a wave from me; every time!)

Good on ya astrojax 😉 I would do the same. Good to see a couple of us left out there !!

ant said :

Spideydog said :

I dunno, but the lack of common courtesy driver etiquette is appalling ….. When was the last time someone here has received a thank you wave from another driver ???

I get them quite often! And give them, too. People with frangipanis on their cars don’t give or recieve them; they probably see them as some kind of aggressive act.

Thats a bit of a generalisation there isn’t it ??

Spideydog said :

I dunno, but the lack of common courtesy driver etiquette is appalling ….. When was the last time someone here has received a thank you wave from another driver ???

I get them quite often! And give them, too. People with frangipanis on their cars don’t give or recieve them; they probably see them as some kind of aggressive act.

sorry busy, but the comma, not a conjunction (and) in your original, gives the text the meaning spideydog pulled you up on – but i see you’re very busy, so a plausible error to make… ; )

as for the first (and several other comments above), what does people reacting slowly in front of you have to do with making someone run a red light? if the traffic ahead doesn’t clear in time for you to drive through a green light, then an amber one lights up, prior to a red one, at which you should stop unless to do so would cause an accident; and at a red one, stop regardless. or did i also learn to drive far too long ago?

(and spidey, if you drive at me through the chicanes on childers street or into anu [and especially if let me through] you got a wave from me; every time!)

Spideydog said :

Very Busy said :

The Government refuses to spend money on road law enforcement while it spends squillions of dollars on public art, stupid “drive n text u b next” signs etc.

U call that public art ….. You do know that that sign is in relation people who text while driving, hence it being a road safety message, not art ??

The emphasis is not just on speeding as you seem to think. Have you seen all the commotion in regard to the amount of drink drivers being prosecuted lately, the campaign on driving while fatigued and the use of mobile phones while driving ??

I do agree that some of the fixed speed camera’s could be used in more useful locations, ie schools.

Spiceydog,

If you read my post s l o w l y you will see some comma’s. To rephrase in simpleton terms for you what I was saying was

“The Government refuses to spend money on road law enforcement while it spends squillions of dollars on public art AND stupid “drive n text u b next” signs AND OTHER THINGS.

Also, I didn’t say the “drive n text u b next” signs weren’t a road safety message. What I did say was that they have nothing to do with law enforcement. BUT since you mention it, the type of motorist that texts while driving is not the type of motorist that would take any notice of those stupid signs.

Clearly this is caused by those damn cyclists. 🙂

Maybe the gubmint can bring out stickers to place on your rear windscreen of a Police car so when you look in the mirror you see one there. Mind you for this plan to work people would have to check their mirrors.

We all see people run red lights at many intersections almost every day. If more red light cameras were installed people would be up in arms about revenue raising and causing rear ender accidents from people slamming on the brakes.

The best road safety tool is a police car in your rear view mirror. With ACT Police numbers being so low that at times there are only 2 patrol cars in an area as big as Belconnen… a police car in each of our rear view mirrors is a rare occurrence.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy6:43 pm 24 May 09

Today, after making room for a truck turning in a narrow street. Hopefully the driver will remember me next time someone else needs 5 seconds of space, and so on…

I dunno, but the lack of common courtesy driver etiquette is appalling ….. When was the last time someone here has received a thank you wave from another driver ???

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy6:35 pm 24 May 09

If people moved off quickly on green, had decent lane discipline and showed a bit of (un)common courtesy, traffic would move along more smoothly.

Silly me, I thought it was a case of red = stop, green = go. I never realised it was due to some kind of govt incompetence. Admittedly I learnt to drive over 20 years ago.

i have two comments.

Running through reds is not a big problem here compared to other cities. Go to Melbourne CBD for a week. It appears to me that it is mandatory to go through a red in some areas when turning right. Crazy!

Secondly, on traffic light inovations. While travelling through Asia, i noticed that at some busy intersections they have big LCD clocks counting down the traffic light cycles (how long until the green light ends). Really cool idea but i suppose it it would be more suited to really high traffic intersections rather than Mawson. 😛

What’s with all the “Give way to pedestrians” signs? We accept drivers not knowing basic road rules, so we have to have signs to tell them?

54-11, I can assure you that all traffic offences are being enforced. Admittedly some more than others. Speed cameras are but just a small portion of the enforcement, in which the cameras have no involvement with Police (unless infringements are disputed)

I will agree with more active traffic enforcement, but you may need to get onto government to get more officers to do that, as well as perform the general duties, crime prevention, major crime investigation,etc,etc.

Maybe some drivers think that stopping at a red light is an aspirational target. The government seems to be able to use this term freely to bend commitments and rules.

Spideydog, the problem is that these are all static devices, and offernders don’t find out for days later. What is needed is active enforcement of ALL road rules, including bhaviour such as not indicating, clagging up the right hand lane, mobile phone use, fog lights on when there is no fog, and so on .

U call that public art ….. You do know that that sign is in relation people who text while driving, hence it being a road safety message, not art ??

Nah, I’m pretty sure those signs are supposed to be amusing 🙂

GregW said :

While these are mostly university students, the general ignorance/arrogance of foreign students will result in one being hit soon

+1

Very Busy said :

The Government refuses to spend money on road law enforcement while it spends squillions of dollars on public art, stupid “drive n text u b next” signs etc.

U call that public art ….. You do know that that sign is in relation people who text while driving, hence it being a road safety message, not art ??

The emphasis is not just on speeding as you seem to think. Have you seen all the commotion in regard to the amount of drink drivers being prosecuted lately, the campaign on driving while fatigued and the use of mobile phones while driving ??

I do agree that some of the fixed speed camera’s could be used in more useful locations, ie schools.

Re #1, in the UK the light flashes orange inbetween going from red to green thus giving drivers at the front the chance to get in gear, stop picking their nose, scratching their balls, putting on makeup, etc. It works well there, don’t know why they don’t program the lights to do it here.

A similar situation occurs at the corner of barry drive and clunies ross st, with students crossing the road to the ANU. While these are mostly university students, the general ignorance/arrogance of foreign students will result in one being hit soon, I have seen a few near misses this semester. The end of the bus lane doesn’t help.

While ultimately I have no sympathy for any pedestrian crossing the road where they don’t have right of way, I think the blame mostly lies with the government and their 3 seconds between one direction switching red and the other green. If this didn’t happen we wouldn’t have an attitude that it is okay to gun it on a late-orange / early red. Its also bound to cause problems when travelling to other states.

54-11 said :

Still, I’m not condoning running red lights, which is a problem in Canberra. Another example of the stupidity of all our road traffic enforcement being aimed at speeding, and nothing on other traffic infringements.

You mean like the multiple red light/speed cameras around the place.

This is result of the current ACT Governments fixation with speed cameras and their refusal to enforce the law in relation to most other driving offences. People break the law in the ACT because they can and there are no consequences for doing so.

It is so easy to put up speed cameras everywhere but when it comes to other offences our Government sits on its hands and does zero. The Government refuses to spend money on road law enforcement while it spends squillions of dollars on public art, stupid “drive n text u b next” signs etc. The ACT Government is either incredibly lazy, totally clueless or 100% focussed on revenue raising when it comes to road safety. Probably all three.

The intersection mentioned by the OP is a very dangerous one with hundreds of school students crossing Athllon drive there daily. Kids HAVE been hit there in the past and they WILL be hit again. It is only a matter of time before a pedestrian is killed there.

Queuing across intersections is another thing Canberra district drivers seem to do quite happily. The intersections around Fairbairn/Moreshead/Pialligo regularly lock up as cars queue across roundabouts and traffic light-controlled intersections, stopping other cars from moving through. This also happens on Russell roundabout. I’ve never seen anyone official doing anything about it.

One of the issues is that cars do not move off smartly when the lights turn green. Near us, there are often queues waiting for a green arrow, but too mnay drivers are slow, and consequently only a few cars get through at each phase.

If everyone did the right thing, then most if not all cars would clear the intersection, and this problem would not happen.

Still, I’m not condoning running red lights, which is a problem in Canberra. Another example of the stupidity of all our road traffic enforcement being aimed at speeding, and nothing on other traffic infringements.

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