19 April 2016

Refugees welcome in the ACT

| Kim Fischer
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stock-syria-refugees-camp

The Federal Government’s decision to accept 12,000 additional refugees from Syria this year – albeit after some pressure from its own backbench and the Labor party – is the right one. But our overall refugee policy still needs work.

How many refugees we should permanently settle in Australia every year? Over the last few decades, we have accepted an average of 0.5 refugees per 1000 Australia citizens, per year. To put this in perspective, this proportionately amounts to 180 refugees settling in Canberra every year – hardly unmanageable.

As a wealthy country, I think Australia should set a formal resettlement target of 1 refugee in Australia per 1000 citizens each year. This would allow our refugee intake to increase naturally and gradually over time.

Given the Territory Government’s recent declaration of the ACT as a Refugee Welcome Zone, we can do better right here in Canberra. By publically adopting a ‘1 per 1000’ target for refugee resettlement, the ACT Government would be taking the lead nationally. Our local refugee support services have noted “there is a lot of capacity in our community” to accept additional refugees – 350 refugees per year would be very achievable.

We should also fight harder against the use of offshore detention. The key obligations of Australia under the Refugee Convention are to house refugees in safe, clean, and reasonably comfortable accommodation, and never to send them back to the country from which they fled (either directly or indirectly) while a fear of persecution remains.

Offshore processing has consistently failed the first of these tests with many stories of mental illness, abuse, hunger strikes, and rioting documented. Indeed as Waleed Aly noted, the purpose of offshore processing is solely to be as unpleasant as possible.

In a legal sense, offshore processing serves no purpose at all. All unauthorised maritime arrivals are now treated equally under migration law whether they are ever brought to the mainland or not, and Australia’s obligations under the Refugee Convention remain the same. During 2001 – 2007, the last time regional processing was operating, more than 60% of refugees were eventually resettled in Australia anyway.

The use of offshore, prison-like detention facilities to house some of the world’s most desperate people is unworthy of Australians’ generosity and unjustified based on their actions. These facilities should be closed immediately.

As an alternative, Julian Burnside’s proposal to use Tasmania as an asylum-seeker processing centre provides many real benefits. Essentially a whole-of-State expansion of community detention arrangements, it would allow the struggling Tasmanian economy to benefit from hundreds of millions of dollars in additional construction, education, and social support programs operating in the country. Refugees would be obliged to stay in Tasmania (or other regional areas designated by the government) unless dispensation were granted, but otherwise they would be free to participate in the community.

Any ‘Tasmanian option’ would be money far better spent than the $1.2 billion we currently spend annually on processing refugees in Nauru and PNG. The evidence is clear that community detention is both cheaper and far better health-wise for refugees and asylum-seekers. Community detention arrangements should be the norm, with detention to a building or cell only done where people commit a crime or breach their visa conditions of release.

Refugees are a net benefit to Australia in the long run. However, studies estimate a 12 year lag before their contribution is a net positive. After 20 years the productivity benefit of both refugee and non-refugee migrants is virtually the same. Because of this long lag time, most experts recommend evaluating migration programs by the second generation test – that is, by how successful and productive the children of migrants are in Australia.

Would you like the ACT Government to introduce a ‘1 per 1000’ target for refugee resettlement?

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(Photo: Syrian refugees at a camp for internally displaced persons in Atmeh, Syria, adjacent to the Turkish border, via iStock.)

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Aragornerama said :

gazket said :

I find it strange that Syria is so dangerous it’s illegal for us to go there but then lets bring 12,000 Syrians here.

I’m sure the fooled protesters that lined Northbourne Ave with their candles the other week are will be each billeting a refugee .

The last lot of Labor boaties still don’t have jobs. They have 6/10 kids and get $4k a fortnight on the pension . why would they work.

Jobs are not a finite resource. Sure, refugees probably work. But if they work, they also spend, creating further jobs. Your argument is entirely invalid.

I have a refugee success story. Im not bias.

Captain Nemad created quite a few jobs . I wonder how many thousands of jobs he created and we Australians pay for.
His clients were contracted out to the Australian government and Captain Nemad didn’t have to sign a thing to do it. He filled his Labor/Greens government contract and was allowed to leave the country a rich man.

Southmouth said :

Nilrem said :

miz said :

There are malls in western Sydney where you are stared at if you are female and your arm flesh is showing. To me that’s. No go zone in my own country.
I agree with Grimm.

Also, I bet around the time of the First Fleet there was an aboriginal guy (or girl) who got sick of the strange white people staring at him or her, “in his or her own country”. Eventually we all got over it.

It’s not the staring. It the racial insults hurled at aussie girls who dare to go out uncovered. You clearly have no experience accompanying teenage girls

So, some people behave like jerks. Some of these jerks are not Anglo-Saxon. Is this the reason you are using for advocating a change to our immigration policies to bar certain religious and/or ethnic groups? What about the people from the same ethnic/religious community who would never behave like this, and would regard people who behaved like this as jerks? Are they collateral damage in your attack? And what about the racist abuse I have experienced, despite having been born here, because I look a bit different? Thos jerks get away with it because their parents’ or grandparents’ boats arrived here a few decades earlier?

Southmouth said :

Nilrem said :

miz said :

There are malls in western Sydney where you are stared at if you are female and your arm flesh is showing. To me that’s. No go zone in my own country.
I agree with Grimm.

Also, I bet around the time of the First Fleet there was an aboriginal guy (or girl) who got sick of the strange white people staring at him or her, “in his or her own country”. Eventually we all got over it.

It’s not the staring. It the racial insults hurled at aussie girls who dare to go out uncovered. You clearly have no experience accompanying teenage girls

How are your girls with walking past building sites or pubs?

I have never seen what you are talking about and I have spent a lot of time in and around Bankstown, my father lived there until recently.

One thing I have noticed is that even within the same circle of friends and family, some girls are covered and others are not.

Is this all from reading the Telegraph and Andrew Bolt or listening to Talkback Radio?

It’s weird that the people who have the most problem with immigrants are those who have least contact with them. Always has been.

There are extremists on both sides, not just the Muslims. I don’t like flag waving Bogans and their anti-social behaviour any more than I like bigoted religious extremists. It’s the anti-social, inconsideration of others that I object to.

Nilrem said :

miz said :

There are malls in western Sydney where you are stared at if you are female and your arm flesh is showing. To me that’s. No go zone in my own country.
I agree with Grimm.

Also, I bet around the time of the First Fleet there was an aboriginal guy (or girl) who got sick of the strange white people staring at him or her, “in his or her own country”. Eventually we all got over it.

It’s not the staring. It the racial insults hurled at aussie girls who dare to go out uncovered. You clearly have no experience accompanying teenage girls

miz said :

There are malls in western Sydney where you are stared at if you are female and your arm flesh is showing. To me that’s. No go zone in my own country.
I agree with Grimm.

Also, I bet around the time of the First Fleet there was an aboriginal guy (or girl) who got sick of the strange white people staring at him or her, “in his or her own country”. Eventually we all got over it.

miz said :

There are malls in western Sydney where you are stared at if you are female and your arm flesh is showing. To me that’s. No go zone in my own country.
I agree with Grimm.

There are places in Canberra, where on occasion, because of the bad behaviour of some men, women feel threatened or are made to feel uncomfortable. This does not make Canberra a no go zone. It does mean there is room for improvement. If we were to use this “staring” criterion for judging a no go zone, large parts of Australia would be a no go zone for women wearing any form of islamic head covering.

Southmouth said :

My mother is an immigrant. She came as a teenager from post war europe with her parents. They got off the boat in Sydney on a Thursday. On the Monday my Grandfather started work in Adelaide and was never unemployed. Immigration at it’s best.
My Father and Father in law both worked on the construction of the snowy scheme for many years, alongside many many refugees from non english speaking europe. This was a blinding success for us as a nation. The catalyst to these successes is full employment. If migrants/refugees are working alongside people of diverse backgrounds and locals, history has shown they will intergrate. If you bring them as a monoculture and let them be entitled they will not. The solution, get some infrastructure projects going and bring in as many as can be put to work.

I thought we couldn’t build such a big project as the Snowy Mountains Scheme because there was no country exactly like Australia in exactly the same place and with the same population as Australia?

And that it would bankrupt Australia and leave our children in debt for the rest of their lives?

And if we built the Snowy Hydro Electric it would ruin the Australian way of life, which is built on burning as much coal as we can humanly dig up, just the way it has always been, and God meant it to be!

miz said :

There are malls in western Sydney where you are stared at if you are female and your arm flesh is showing. To me that’s. No go zone in my own country.
I agree with Grimm.

If you are talking about Bankstown Square because that is near the muslims in Lakema, that is utter and total dishonest nonsense.

There are malls in western Sydney where you are stared at if you are female and your arm flesh is showing. To me that’s. No go zone in my own country.
I agree with Grimm.

Southmouth said :

If only there was a country which had provided two waves of immigration to Australia, with the first consisting of Christians and the second, Muslims. Then we could tell if religion makes no difference, as the lefties bang on about. Oh wait a minute…………

Yugoslavia. Mostly Orthodox Serb and Catholic Croat in the late 40s/early 50s. Then mostly Muslim Bosnians in the 90s. European though. So does that narrow it down to race?

HiddenDragon5:51 pm 18 Sep 15

Let’s hope something positive comes from this:

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2015/s4315173.htm

Southmouth said :

If only there was a country which had provided two waves of immigration to Australia, with the first consisting of Christians and the second, Muslims. Then we could tell if religion makes no difference, as the lefties bang on about. Oh wait a minute…………

New Zealand?

If only there was a country which had provided two waves of immigration to Australia, with the first consisting of Christians and the second, Muslims. Then we could tell if religion makes no difference, as the lefties bang on about. Oh wait a minute…………

wildturkeycanoe said :

If you look at any graph showing historical unemployment rates there is an alarming jump just as we started accepting all these refugees in the seventies. Coincidence?

Silly me, I thought that was due to structual inflexibilities in Australia’s labour market not being able to cope with shocks like the 1974 credit squeeze and the recession that followed; not to mention the oil crisis and recessions occuring internationally as post war booms wound down.

Damn those lying worshippers at the altar of the new religion of economics, the reality is “dey terk err jerbs (or at least our places on the dole line)”

wildturkeycanoe said :

Southmouth said :

The solution, get some infrastructure projects going and bring in as many as can be put to work.

What kind of infrastructure do you think 12,000 men, women and children are going to be working on? Half of the refugees are children. If we go by current costs of living here, we need to create jobs for around 4000 more people to feed their families. What kind of numbers do we expect are going to be able to hop straight into a job? These people have probably been living in a climate of oppression and poverty, with little education or skills that would be useful in our modern era. Without training, it’ll be pointless trying to get these folks into work when we already have hundreds of thousands of English speaking, well educated young people who cannot get employment. Infrastructure [like the NBN for example] is a skills based project, not something you simply throw manpower at.
By allowing refugees to enter our society, we are putting more pressure on the welfare system that has been the target of fund-cutting by the government. Where exactly are they going to get all the extra money to feed, clothe and house these folks?
As for your point about getting them to work and live among other nationalities, there will be many issues with that, the least of which is the language barrier. As around 90% of them are Muslims, you will see very little socializing as they generally keep to themselves, especially the women. Acceptance into the community will be difficult, not only because of the prejudice of our western society but the lack of wanting to integrate into a community that doesn’t share and is indeed in conflict with their beliefs.

Completely agree, if there are no jobs for them don’t bring them. If they are Sunni or Shiite they should be resettled in a Sunni or Shiite country

Most infrastructure projects need lots of unskilled labour including the NBN. Dragging fibre thru a conduit isn’t a degree job

wildturkeycanoe said :

No_Nose said :

I am old enough to remember that current arguement against accepting refugees today are almost the exact same arguements used in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s against accepting the South East Asian refugees arriving then.

The arguements are just as invalid now as they were then.

Was IS a threat to humanity in the seventies? Did they do the atrocious acts they are committing right now? Were the refugees fleeing terrorism? No, there was a war going on and Australia wasn’t a target of terrorism..

These are the arguements that were used against refugees in the 70’s (and I have been told against European immigrants in the 1950’s)

‘They’re probably the same people we were fighting a short time ago’. (They weren’t)
‘They’ll include sleeper cells to take over the country’ (They didn’t)
‘They’ll never learn English’ (They did)
‘They’ll never fit in with our culture’ (They did)
‘They’ll try to put their culture over ours’ (They didn’t)
‘They’ll form ghettos’ (They didn’t)
‘There’ll be so many of them we’ll be a minority’ (There isn’t)
‘They’re not real refugees’ (They were)
‘We can’t afford it’ (We could)
‘They’ll never be loyal to Australia’ (They are)

Any of these sound almost identical to what we are hearing now?

wildturkeycanoe11:31 am 18 Sep 15

Southmouth said :

The solution, get some infrastructure projects going and bring in as many as can be put to work.

What kind of infrastructure do you think 12,000 men, women and children are going to be working on? Half of the refugees are children. If we go by current costs of living here, we need to create jobs for around 4000 more people to feed their families. What kind of numbers do we expect are going to be able to hop straight into a job? These people have probably been living in a climate of oppression and poverty, with little education or skills that would be useful in our modern era. Without training, it’ll be pointless trying to get these folks into work when we already have hundreds of thousands of English speaking, well educated young people who cannot get employment. Infrastructure [like the NBN for example] is a skills based project, not something you simply throw manpower at.
By allowing refugees to enter our society, we are putting more pressure on the welfare system that has been the target of fund-cutting by the government. Where exactly are they going to get all the extra money to feed, clothe and house these folks?
As for your point about getting them to work and live among other nationalities, there will be many issues with that, the least of which is the language barrier. As around 90% of them are Muslims, you will see very little socializing as they generally keep to themselves, especially the women. Acceptance into the community will be difficult, not only because of the prejudice of our western society but the lack of wanting to integrate into a community that doesn’t share and is indeed in conflict with their beliefs.

Nilrem said :

Grimm said :

Ahhh, nice to see the usual lefty apologists and deniers of reality haven’t declined in number.

Continue to ignore what’s happening in Europe and starting to take hold here. Blame a white male between 25-50 for all the ills of the world while we are at it. Yell “bigot” at anybody who disagrees with you.

Actually, I just want to know where these alleged “no go zones” are.

I can give you a list of places (where swimming is the major drawcard), that make me very uncomfortable to go with my teenage daughters due to the behaviour of groups of young men of a clearly identifiable ethnic origin

Southmouth said :

The solution, get some infrastructure projects going and bring in as many as can be put to work.

The “Infrastructure Prime Minister” just lost his job.

My mother is an immigrant. She came as a teenager from post war europe with her parents. They got off the boat in Sydney on a Thursday. On the Monday my Grandfather started work in Adelaide and was never unemployed. Immigration at it’s best.
My Father and Father in law both worked on the construction of the snowy scheme for many years, alongside many many refugees from non english speaking europe. This was a blinding success for us as a nation. The catalyst to these successes is full employment. If migrants/refugees are working alongside people of diverse backgrounds and locals, history has shown they will intergrate. If you bring them as a monoculture and let them be entitled they will not. The solution, get some infrastructure projects going and bring in as many as can be put to work.

Magpies – I am appalled at the recent ‘killing’ of magpies in Gungahlin.

Personally I am of the opinion that we could take in all of the 12,000 Syrians in Canberra. We have the space and plenty of vacant accommodation.

wildturkeycanoe7:20 am 18 Sep 15

No_Nose said :

I am old enough to remember that current arguement against accepting refugees today are almost the exact same arguements used in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s against accepting the South East Asian refugees arriving then.

The arguements are just as invalid now as they were then.

Was IS a threat to humanity in the seventies? Did they do the atrocious acts they are committing right now? Were the refugees fleeing terrorism? No, there was a war going on and Australia wasn’t a target of terrorism.
Is Australia’s economy as stable or as strong as then? If you look at any graph showing historical unemployment rates there is an alarming jump just as we started accepting all these refugees in the seventies. Coincidence?

As to this particular argumenbt about the 12,000 coming here, I am joining the voice of those who say “Let’s look after our own citizens first.” How many homeless, struggling Australians could we assist with the money our government is throwing at the new arrivals? How can we cope with another 12,000 welfare recipients? It is tough enough now to get a job and pay our day to day living expenses but the government seems hell bent on bowing to the cry babies who want to help these “unknown” refugees. We don’t know their backgrounds, they may or may not speak English. How are they going to survive except for handouts from the taxpayer?
I agree with the sentiment here, that if people want to accept these refugees then let them billet those people in their own homes, pay for their daily needs out of their own pocket and not burden everybody else with the cost.

Grimm said :

Ahhh, nice to see the usual lefty apologists and deniers of reality haven’t declined in number.

Continue to ignore what’s happening in Europe and starting to take hold here. Blame a white male between 25-50 for all the ills of the world while we are at it. Yell “bigot” at anybody who disagrees with you.

Actually, I just want to know where these alleged “no go zones” are.

Ahhh, nice to see the usual lefty apologists and deniers of reality haven’t declined in number.

Continue to ignore what’s happening in Europe and starting to take hold here. Blame a white male between 25-50 for all the ills of the world while we are at it. Yell “bigot” at anybody who disagrees with you.

Nilrem said :

Grimm said :

watto23 said :

Grimm said :

watto23 said :

Now for the lemmings who believe everything politicians tell them, or base an entire decision on something they heard from a friend about a refugee on the dole or taking an Australians job for less money…….

Don’t think it has much to do with people thinking they just want the dole. I think it has a lot more to do with people becoming tired of some refugees turning up, refusing to integrate and demanding Australia changes its culture to suit them.

What like the catholics and christians who demand our culture suits the views and opinions regardless of what the rest of us want?

I’ve heard far less of immigrants wanting to change our culture and its mostly based on the odd extremist, or conservative with alterior motives, making bold brash statements in the media rather than actual fact.

While I am about the least interested in religion guy you’d ever meet, yes, like catholics and christians. Whether you or I like it or not, they fit best into Australian culture and don’t demand radical changes to suit their beliefs.

I don’t see catholics, christians, bhuddists, hindus, sikhs etc essentially taking over entire enclaves of major cities and making them essentially no go zones for anybody but their people. I don’t see any of the aforementioned religions expecting to run these areas under their own backward, barbaric laws and ignore the laws of this country.

You can play PC and pretend all you like, but even a blind man can see that some cultures are just not compatible together. The difference is quite clear when you look at Vietnamese refugees in the 80s and early 90s in particular. What did they turn up and demand? They were grateful to be here and happy to escape and leave behind a way of life that caused them to seek refugee status in the first place.

Where are these “no go zones”?

Cerebral Cortex?

Aragornerama8:48 am 17 Sep 15

gazket said :

I find it strange that Syria is so dangerous it’s illegal for us to go there but then lets bring 12,000 Syrians here.

I’m sure the fooled protesters that lined Northbourne Ave with their candles the other week are will be each billeting a refugee .

The last lot of Labor boaties still don’t have jobs. They have 6/10 kids and get $4k a fortnight on the pension . why would they work.

Jobs are not a finite resource. Sure, refugees probably work. But if they work, they also spend, creating further jobs. Your argument is entirely invalid.

No_Nose said :

1. There are many, many things that are probably ‘better’ to do than resettling, but none of them can practically be done. Mainly because there is no will to do it, or because physically, diplomatically and practically they can’t.
2. The idea of Australia building ten hospitals in foreign countries is great. But it will not happen. Ever.
.

You are juystifying your irrational support for the wasteful and useless practice of resettling refugees by make assertions that are plainly wrong.

“None of them can practically be done”. This is garbage.
“It will not happen”. More twaddle.

Read what actually happens, in reality:
http://dfat.gov.au/geo/cambodia/development-assistance/Pages/development-assistance-in-cambodia.aspx

Notice how Cambodia, a poor country of 15 million inhabitants desperately in need of aid, is getting $50 million from Australia.
(The money being wasted on resettling 12,000 refugees could instead be used to increase by a factor of x10 the aid Cambodia gets from us).

Now click through to “Infrastructure Projects” – see? Australia both can, and does, build stuff in poor countries that need it.

Or, if you didn’t want to trust DFAT, you coudl give the half-$billion to this mob:
http://www.projects-abroad.com.au/projects/building/
See? Australians both can, and do, build stuff overseas in foreign countries.
And you will find dozens of organisations that are involved, and who would all love a share of the half$billion currently being squandered on helping a mere 12,000 people to move into a run-down Australian suburb for a future of welfare dependence and alienation.

HiddenDragon said :

If the ACT Government is inclined to provide additional support for refugees in these special circumstances, this would be an excellent opportunity to look very carefully at all its activities and expenditures to find savings so that it can help people in genuine need who are already in our community (i.e. not just refugees) as well as those who have yet to join it from profoundly troubled parts of the world.

Completely agree, but as many are well aware, spending on welfare has connotations about it and is used as a political tool in much the same way as refugees are. Then you also have just like with refugees a few bad apples who give the majority a bad name. If one could spend the governments money without politics, many issues would probably go away.

the reality isn’t the photo above . this is the reality of the situation. This is who’s coming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHBOs8KUzos

watto23 said :

gazket said :

I find it strange that Syria is so dangerous it’s illegal for us to go there but then lets bring 12,000 Syrians here.

I’m sure the fooled protesters that lined Northbourne Ave with their candles the other week are will be each billeting a refugee .

The last lot of Labor boaties still don’t have jobs. They have 6/10 kids and get $4k a fortnight on the pension . why would they work.

So you are using what an Australian would do and comparing it to hardworking people who would be happy to work. Some of them are on visas not entitling them to work. Others can’t find work because our government is not very good at creating jobs, unless its a big mining project.

You have shown a distinct lack of thinking in your comment and all political bias repeating nonsense that isn’t true. Syrians have a minority run government and a terrorist organisation, fighting along with rebels trying to defend the country and you wonder why people are fleeing there due to danger, yet equate those fleeing as being dangerous? The British were the ones who handed power to the minority that ran Syria for years, the arab spring occured due to the poor treatment of the majority and ISIS pounced on the disunity, meanwhile the USA and now Australia have their fingers in the pie bombing the country for no real benefit, other than it most likely looks like they are being tough on terrorism. There are plenty of liberal voters who have some compassion, they are not all right wing extremists who feel their christianity is under threat from islam, and thus paint them as evil.

ISIS did they they would flood Europe’s borders with people and have ISIS fighters mingle with them and be accepted into other countries. There is ISIS fighters in Germany now make no mistake about it.

HiddenDragon6:15 pm 16 Sep 15

london said :

It’s fine for do-gooders and those living well to shout for refugees to be brought to Australia but do they do anything finacially to help once they are here? People living below the poverty line and the homeless will be the people to suffer. Will the refugees be given a tent and sleeping bag? If not where are the homes coming from if we have so many homeless? Where are the jpbs? Why are thet given social security when our young people are to be denied. Let’s help place all young Australians in a safe home and give them a job before we give any more overseas people sanctuary. You only have to live in Canberra to see how people from overseas treat us with such disregard.

If the ACT Government is inclined to provide additional support for refugees in these special circumstances, this would be an excellent opportunity to look very carefully at all its activities and expenditures to find savings so that it can help people in genuine need who are already in our community (i.e. not just refugees) as well as those who have yet to join it from profoundly troubled parts of the world.

Nilrem said :

Grimm said :

watto23 said :

Grimm said :

watto23 said :

Now for the lemmings who believe everything politicians tell them, or base an entire decision on something they heard from a friend about a refugee on the dole or taking an Australians job for less money…….

Don’t think it has much to do with people thinking they just want the dole. I think it has a lot more to do with people becoming tired of some refugees turning up, refusing to integrate and demanding Australia changes its culture to suit them.

What like the catholics and christians who demand our culture suits the views and opinions regardless of what the rest of us want?

I’ve heard far less of immigrants wanting to change our culture and its mostly based on the odd extremist, or conservative with alterior motives, making bold brash statements in the media rather than actual fact.

While I am about the least interested in religion guy you’d ever meet, yes, like catholics and christians. Whether you or I like it or not, they fit best into Australian culture and don’t demand radical changes to suit their beliefs.

I don’t see catholics, christians, bhuddists, hindus, sikhs etc essentially taking over entire enclaves of major cities and making them essentially no go zones for anybody but their people. I don’t see any of the aforementioned religions expecting to run these areas under their own backward, barbaric laws and ignore the laws of this country.

You can play PC and pretend all you like, but even a blind man can see that some cultures are just not compatible together. The difference is quite clear when you look at Vietnamese refugees in the 80s and early 90s in particular. What did they turn up and demand? They were grateful to be here and happy to escape and leave behind a way of life that caused them to seek refugee status in the first place.

Where are these “no go zones”?

Charnwood

Grimm said :

watto23 said :

Grimm said :

watto23 said :

Now for the lemmings who believe everything politicians tell them, or base an entire decision on something they heard from a friend about a refugee on the dole or taking an Australians job for less money…….

Don’t think it has much to do with people thinking they just want the dole. I think it has a lot more to do with people becoming tired of some refugees turning up, refusing to integrate and demanding Australia changes its culture to suit them.

What like the catholics and christians who demand our culture suits the views and opinions regardless of what the rest of us want?

I’ve heard far less of immigrants wanting to change our culture and its mostly based on the odd extremist, or conservative with alterior motives, making bold brash statements in the media rather than actual fact.

While I am about the least interested in religion guy you’d ever meet, yes, like catholics and christians. Whether you or I like it or not, they fit best into Australian culture and don’t demand radical changes to suit their beliefs.

I don’t see catholics, christians, bhuddists, hindus, sikhs etc essentially taking over entire enclaves of major cities and making them essentially no go zones for anybody but their people. I don’t see any of the aforementioned religions expecting to run these areas under their own backward, barbaric laws and ignore the laws of this country.

You can play PC and pretend all you like, but even a blind man can see that some cultures are just not compatible together. The difference is quite clear when you look at Vietnamese refugees in the 80s and early 90s in particular. What did they turn up and demand? They were grateful to be here and happy to escape and leave behind a way of life that caused them to seek refugee status in the first place.

Where are these “no go zones”?

Grimm said :

The difference is quite clear when you look at Vietnamese refugees in the 80s and early 90s in particular. What did they turn up and demand? They were grateful to be here and happy to escape and leave behind a way of life that caused them to seek refugee status in the first place.

I am old enough to remember that current arguement against accepting refugees today are almost the exact same arguements used in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s against accepting the South East Asian refugees arriving then.

The arguements are just as invalid now as they were then.

Grimm said :

watto23 said :

Grimm said :

watto23 said :

Now for the lemmings who believe everything politicians tell them, or base an entire decision on something they heard from a friend about a refugee on the dole or taking an Australians job for less money…….

Don’t think it has much to do with people thinking they just want the dole. I think it has a lot more to do with people becoming tired of some refugees turning up, refusing to integrate and demanding Australia changes its culture to suit them.

What like the catholics and christians who demand our culture suits the views and opinions regardless of what the rest of us want?

I’ve heard far less of immigrants wanting to change our culture and its mostly based on the odd extremist, or conservative with alterior motives, making bold brash statements in the media rather than actual fact.

While I am about the least interested in religion guy you’d ever meet, yes, like catholics and christians. Whether you or I like it or not, they fit best into Australian culture and don’t demand radical changes to suit their beliefs.

I don’t see catholics, christians, bhuddists, hindus, sikhs etc essentially taking over entire enclaves of major cities and making them essentially no go zones for anybody but their people. I don’t see any of the aforementioned religions expecting to run these areas under their own backward, barbaric laws and ignore the laws of this country.

You can play PC and pretend all you like, but even a blind man can see that some cultures are just not compatible together. The difference is quite clear when you look at Vietnamese refugees in the 80s and early 90s in particular. What did they turn up and demand? They were grateful to be here and happy to escape and leave behind a way of life that caused them to seek refugee status in the first place.

I’m definitely not playing PC at all. In fact I’m all against some of the PC rubbish that goes on in society. What I am annoyed about is the assumptions regarding Islam and how its somehow a different religion to others. The fact it has extremists right now is accepted. However extrapolating that to all muslims and islam is very far fetched. There are places where muslims practise some very bad things and no one who wants to accept more refugees believes those practices should continue anywhere.

Common one I’ve heard based on ignorance is Muslims practice female genital mutilation. Yet its a far bigger issue in Christian African countries than in Muslim countries.

The argument that Christians were here first or our society was based on that are not valid arguments. Aboriginals were here first and they are not always respected either. I’ve never heard a rational non extreme muslim say they want to do any of the things you say they want to do. Most just want the right to practice their religion within Australian laws.

When the Vietnamese came to Australia my parents and grandparents refused to go to Cabramatta in Sydney, because it was in their opinion unsafe and full of asian gangs. Yet they go now, there are not any muslims there. Yet I have no issues walking through Lakemba or any muslim area. I don’t believe all the propoganda and rubbish published by Christian lobby groups. I’ve been to islamic countries, invited into homes and provided meals for nothing in return. I go to a Christian or Catholic house for dinner and apparently I offend them for not praying with them, they want to know why I don’t believe in god or other stuff they believe in, I have christian values thrust down my throat by political groups and lobby groups, because they want us to all live their way. I’m sorry the most offensive and intrusive religion in Australia are the Catholics and many other Christians as well.

Also what really is integrating into Australian society? It seems like its the PC way of saying any religion but islam is accepted, because you don’t want to be called a bigot.

The hatred is all based on a few bad people, but 99.999% of muslims are far friendlier and nicer people than those who think they are here to change their livestyle. In fact the irony of it all is if the christian lobby groups accept muslims, they may actually block SSM, instead of it inevitably happening.

watto23 said :

Grimm said :

watto23 said :

Now for the lemmings who believe everything politicians tell them, or base an entire decision on something they heard from a friend about a refugee on the dole or taking an Australians job for less money…….

Don’t think it has much to do with people thinking they just want the dole. I think it has a lot more to do with people becoming tired of some refugees turning up, refusing to integrate and demanding Australia changes its culture to suit them.

What like the catholics and christians who demand our culture suits the views and opinions regardless of what the rest of us want?

I’ve heard far less of immigrants wanting to change our culture and its mostly based on the odd extremist, or conservative with alterior motives, making bold brash statements in the media rather than actual fact.

While I am about the least interested in religion guy you’d ever meet, yes, like catholics and christians. Whether you or I like it or not, they fit best into Australian culture and don’t demand radical changes to suit their beliefs.

I don’t see catholics, christians, bhuddists, hindus, sikhs etc essentially taking over entire enclaves of major cities and making them essentially no go zones for anybody but their people. I don’t see any of the aforementioned religions expecting to run these areas under their own backward, barbaric laws and ignore the laws of this country.

You can play PC and pretend all you like, but even a blind man can see that some cultures are just not compatible together. The difference is quite clear when you look at Vietnamese refugees in the 80s and early 90s in particular. What did they turn up and demand? They were grateful to be here and happy to escape and leave behind a way of life that caused them to seek refugee status in the first place.

HenryBG said :

As I have pointed out, and as you have failed to even respond to, half a billion dollars wasted resettling 0.02% of the world’s refugees would be far better spent on providing services and facilities to refugees – this money could instead pay for 10 first-world hospitals which would provide comprehensive healthcare to *all* the refugees currently living in Turkey, for example.

Quite simply:
1. There are many, many things that are probably ‘better’ to do than resettling, but none of them can practically be done. Mainly because there is no will to do it, or because physically, diplomatically and practically they can’t.
2. The idea of Australia building ten hospitals in foreign countries is great. But it will not happen. Ever.

So we should do what we can… It’s better than sitting back and saying ..’Well we can’t fix everything so therefore will will do nothing’

And I have always said that resettling refugees is only part of the solution, not the whole solution. But is is, and should be, a part.

No_Nose said :

HenryBG said :

Maybe they are rational people who can see that half a billion dollars being spent on 12,000 refugees could build 10 hospitals that would benefit a significant proportion of the 60,000,000 refugees we aren’t resettling.

I can quite easily see the racist xenophobes supporting the Australian government building 10 hospitals in a foreign country. Yep, that is a completely realistic scenario.

I don’t know any racist xenophobes and I understand even less why their opinions would be relevant.

As I have pointed out, and as you have failed to even respond to, half a billion dollars wasted resettling 0.02% of the world’s refugees would be far better spent on providing services and facilities to refugees – this money could instead pay for 10 first-world hospitals which would provide comprehensive healthcare to *all* the refugees currently living in Turkey, for example.

HenryBG said :

Maybe they are rational people who can see that half a billion dollars being spent on 12,000 refugees could build 10 hospitals that would benefit a significant proportion of the 60,000,000 refugees we aren’t resettling.

I can quite easily see the racist xenophobes supporting the Australian government building 10 hospitals in a foreign country. Yep, that is a completely realistic scenario.

HenryBG said :

Or maybe I can put it this way – how many refugees is Japan resettling?

So your answer is to petulantly whine: “But Mum…Japan isn’t doing anything…so I should’t have to either”. Very mature.

watto23 said :

What like the catholics and christians who demand our culture suits the views and opinions regardless of what the rest of us want?

I’ve heard far less of immigrants wanting to change our culture and its mostly based on the odd extremist, or conservative with alterior motives, making bold brash statements in the media rather than actual fact.

I think your ears must be blocked: whose cultural demands have resulted in government buildings having to be furnished with a *prayer* room, in this secular democracy of ours?
Is it the Christians?
Are you aware that in the UK, many *public* schools (in that secular democracy of theirs) have been forced to provide canteen menus that exclude pork?

A clear majority disagree with the thrust of this article.

Maybe they are rational people who can see that half a billion dollars being spent on 12,000 refugees could build 10 hospitals that would benefit a significant proportion of the 60,000,000 refugees we aren’t resettling.

The fans of resettling refugees are driven by emotion and irrationality.

Or maybe I can put it this way – how many refugees is Japan resettling?

gazket said :

I find it strange that Syria is so dangerous it’s illegal for us to go there but then lets bring 12,000 Syrians here.

I’m sure the fooled protesters that lined Northbourne Ave with their candles the other week are will be each billeting a refugee .

The last lot of Labor boaties still don’t have jobs. They have 6/10 kids and get $4k a fortnight on the pension . why would they work.

So you are using what an Australian would do and comparing it to hardworking people who would be happy to work. Some of them are on visas not entitling them to work. Others can’t find work because our government is not very good at creating jobs, unless its a big mining project.

You have shown a distinct lack of thinking in your comment and all political bias repeating nonsense that isn’t true. Syrians have a minority run government and a terrorist organisation, fighting along with rebels trying to defend the country and you wonder why people are fleeing there due to danger, yet equate those fleeing as being dangerous? The British were the ones who handed power to the minority that ran Syria for years, the arab spring occured due to the poor treatment of the majority and ISIS pounced on the disunity, meanwhile the USA and now Australia have their fingers in the pie bombing the country for no real benefit, other than it most likely looks like they are being tough on terrorism. There are plenty of liberal voters who have some compassion, they are not all right wing extremists who feel their christianity is under threat from islam, and thus paint them as evil.

Grimm said :

watto23 said :

Now for the lemmings who believe everything politicians tell them, or base an entire decision on something they heard from a friend about a refugee on the dole or taking an Australians job for less money…….

Don’t think it has much to do with people thinking they just want the dole. I think it has a lot more to do with people becoming tired of some refugees turning up, refusing to integrate and demanding Australia changes its culture to suit them.

What like the catholics and christians who demand our culture suits the views and opinions regardless of what the rest of us want? I’ve heard far less of immigrants wanting to change our culture and its mostly based on the odd extremist, or conservative with alterior motives, making bold brash statements in the media rather than actual fact.

gazket said :

I find it strange that Syria is so dangerous it’s illegal for us to go there but then lets bring 12,000 Syrians here..

I agree. If it is so dangerous we should be helping out more. 20000 resettlements would be a more reasonable figure.

It’s fine for do-gooders and those living well to shout for refugees to be brought to Australia but do they do anything finacially to help once they are here? People living below the poverty line and the homeless will be the people to suffer. Will the refugees be given a tent and sleeping bag? If not where are the homes coming from if we have so many homeless? Where are the jpbs? Why are thet given social security when our young people are to be denied. Let’s help place all young Australians in a safe home and give them a job before we give any more overseas people sanctuary. You only have to live in Canberra to see how people from overseas treat us with such disregard.

I find it strange that Syria is so dangerous it’s illegal for us to go there but then lets bring 12,000 Syrians here.

I’m sure the fooled protesters that lined Northbourne Ave with their candles the other week are will be each billeting a refugee .

The last lot of Labor boaties still don’t have jobs. They have 6/10 kids and get $4k a fortnight on the pension . why would they work.

You were going so well until you started talking about removing offshore processing.

Yes, a target of 1 refugee per 1000 citizens sounds like an acheivable target and is a worthwhile goal.

But as long as the refugee convention exists in it’s current state (outdated and broken), we need to have offshore processing to ensure equity in our resettlement program and prevent people from taking the dangerous boat journey to get here.

As the current situation in Europe shows, if you remove offshore processing, the pull factors will result in hundreds (thousands) of deaths at sea.

Otherwise, instead of being able to assist those who are most in need of our help, we will be preferentially helping those with the money and means to pay people smugglers to get here. We wil alsol no doubt be condemning many of them to death at sea on that journey.

Offshore processing is by no means perfect but it is far better than the alternative.

watto23 said :

Now for the lemmings who believe everything politicians tell them, or base an entire decision on something they heard from a friend about a refugee on the dole or taking an Australians job for less money…….

Don’t think it has much to do with people thinking they just want the dole. I think it has a lot more to do with people becoming tired of some refugees turning up, refusing to integrate and demanding Australia changes its culture to suit them.

Although the federal governments response looks somewhat generous, they are actually focussing on non-muslim minority groups as they have done in Burma. Its the only way they can get things past their far right xenophobes.

Some people seem to have no idea regarding refugees in general. In terms of Syria, many are well educated and hard working people. Actually I’d argue 99% of refugees are not even looking for a handout, they want to work, although its always assumed they just want to bludge on the dole….

I was in Jordan earlier this year and the locals all asked me what my government was doing and to tell more people to visit Jordan. They have to deal with a war on their borders, tourism numbers dropping which was there main industry and an influx of refugees. Imagine if they had a policy of not letting the million or so refugees in jordanian camps across the border!

Politicians will make out we can’t afford this and that, but the reality is its politics getting in the way. Australia could easily resettle many more refugees. I had a thought bubble with Tony Abbotts idea for a Asian food bowl in the north. Let refugees settle there and farm land. If we didn’t ignore the need for better rail infrastructure also, people wouldn’t be forced to live in expensive cities either, however any time useful infrastructure gets discussed that isn’t mine related, it becomes too expensive as the wealthy don’t want to pay for it.

Now for the lemmings who believe everything politicians tell them, or base an entire decision on something they heard from a friend about a refugee on the dole or taking an Australians job for less money…….

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